ROTC at your state's normal college. Instead of going through 4 years of hazing and moronation, you get to live like a real human and have all the normal college fun while getting a better education to boot.
Black person you’re not even allowed to leave the Naval Academy campus until after your freshman year and even then you need written permission. You have to salute the upper class midshipmen and basically do whatever they say. They have actual E-7’s chewing out 18 year old freshmen on a daily basis. ROTC hazing isn’t nearly as bad as Academy hazing, and that’s a good thing.
Naval Academy, but this is the real answer. You get the same technical and leadership training at ROTC along with 2-3 days of PT a week but you also get to be a normal fricking person and learn how to interact with other normal people in the real world. My grandfather was a 2 star admiral and he commissioned by doing OCS right out of undergrad. He always said that Academy officers always looked down on other officers as well as their enlisted, even though they were usually pretty mid-tier officers themselves.
>My grandfather was a 2 star admiral and he commissioned by doing OCS right out of undergrad.
Then he was one of a handful. If you look at the record something like 90% of the upper brass come out of the 3 main military academies.
>237 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 22 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC), nine via Officer Candidate School (OCS), two via warrant, two via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), one via direct commission (direct), one via the Naval Aviation Cadet (NAVCAD) program, and one via the U.S. Merchant Marine.
Sure it's a bit more common for OCS/ROTC commissioned these days, but hardly the norm.
Here are 3 star Admirals (to keep it short I am only posting those commissioned from 2000-2023)
141 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 74 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 17 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), 11 via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), 8 via direct commission (direct), 2 via direct commission inter-service transfer from the U.S. Army (USA), 1 via the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA), 1 via NROTC at a senior military college, 1 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 1 via the California State University Maritime Academy (CSU Maritime).
OCS/ROTC is certainly more common over the last 20 years, but it's pretty obvious you're hindering yourself if you expect ROTC/OCS to hold the same weight as Annapolis or a similar military academy when it comes time to pick upper brass promotions. The kid who went to Annapolis is ALMOST ALWAYS going to get picked over an equally qualified candidate that did OCS/ROTC.
Assblasted mid trying to justify why he wasted 4 years of his life at Annapolis instead of partying at a state school
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ass-blasted ROTC dropout that doesn't even have the chance of making E-6, let alone O-6 or higher.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>did ROTC at state school >got my BS in electrical engineering for free >graduated and did 4 years of active duty >got out and immediately got hired by Booze Allen at $160k/year + bonus
No regrets, enjoy bossing around morons during peace time for the rest of your career though
11 months ago
Anonymous
Could've stayed in for 20, retired as at least a captain and then worked for Booze making $250k+ starting and with a pension on the backburner.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Tbh having a dog shit work/life balance for 20 years isn’t worth the pension imo. I’m only in my early 30’s and Booze Allen is gonna pay for my MS degree so I’m not worried about breaking $250k within the next 10 years, plus I can actually go home every night and frick my wife/go camping on the weekends/raise my kid. My uncle was a career Marine officer and his kids (my cousins) ended up being stoners because he was never home to actually raise them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>and his kids (my cousins) ended up being stoners because he was never home to actually raise them.
That's a cop out explanation. Kids don't smoke pot because daddy wasn't there to set them straight.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Kids don't smoke pot because daddy wasn't there to set them straight.
That’s exactly why kids smoke weed in high school
11 months ago
Anonymous
No the frick it's not, and I say that as someone that smoked weed in highschool.
Kids smoke weed in highschool because everyone else is also smoking weed in highschool and because it gives a pleasant experience (for most people).
At my highschool (in the mid 2000s) from the senior class of 300 students, I doubt you could find more than 20-30 that had NEVER smoked pot.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>senior class of 300 students
city schools are riddled with drugs, shocker
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you think a senior class of 300 is a "city" school you should have a nice day.
Big city high schools have senior classes of 500+ students. 200-300 students in a class is an average suburban highschool.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Suburban schools are just city schools with less black people, hence the drug problems
11 months ago
Anonymous
And rural schools are just suburban schools but with a meth and alcohol problem instead of a weed problem.
11 months ago
Anonymous
never had meth or alcohol problems in my rural school, but it sounds like you did have major drug issues in your suburban school. the suburbs are breeding grounds for entitled homosexuals and are unironically worse than cities
11 months ago
Anonymous
Like you'd know, no teacher worth a damn is going to teach in your hell hole to begin with, I doubt you'd recognize a condom, let alone a meth pipe.
11 months ago
Anonymous
you doubt I’d recognize a meth pipe? because we didn’t have drug problems in my community?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, I doubt your general education standard because you can't recognize a meth pipe, something i've never seen used in real life either, but something I would instantly recognize, because I received an actual education apparently.
11 months ago
Anonymous
congrats on your extensive knowledge of drug paraphernalia anon
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'd take a methhead over fricking Black folk anyday
11 months ago
Anonymous
While I agree suburbanites are homosexuals, rural America is deader than a doornail
11 months ago
Anonymous
The most fricked up kids (in affluent areas) are generally the kids of preachers and policemen.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>boomers STILL don’t realize that being an absent parent is bad for their kids
why even have kids if you’re not gonna be there for them?
11 months ago
Anonymous
If you look at the rates people in the US smoke pot regularly, it has no real correlation with parenting situations, like I said, it's a complete cop out explanation that has no basis in reality.
11 months ago
Anonymous
To each their own, I'd rather be in for 20+ (depending on where I cap out on rank politically) with an assured pension and enter the private sector with the freedom to job hunt and be picky about when/where I work since I wouldn't particularly NEED a job ASAP.
I already have a healthy work/personal life balance, but I also don't have a wife or kids, nor do I want them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>gets presented with raw data proving him wrong >a-assblasted!
Ringknocking is also a plague in the Navy, much worse than other branches.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Army 4 stars > 161 were commissioned via the U.S. Military Academy (USMA), 53 via Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university, 16 via direct commission (direct), 14 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), eight via ROTC at a senior military college, one via ROTC at a military junior college, one via direct commission in the Army National Guard (ARNG), one via the aviation cadet program, and one via battlefield commission.
Air Force 4 stars > 60 were commissioned via the U.S. Military Academy (USMA), 49 via the aviation cadet program, 45 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 42 via Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC) at a civilian university, 13 via AFROTC at a senior military college, nine via Air Force Officer Training School (OTS), four via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), four via Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university, two via direct commission (direct), one via direct commission inter-service transfer from the Army National Guard (ARNG), and one via direct commission inter-service transfer from the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).
A bit better, but not amazing.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Do the Marines, I know they get 60%+ of their officers period from OCS. The previous commandant commissioned via OCS.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Marines are obviously different since they don't have an academy and are part of the Navy.
> 29 via Officer Candidates School (OCS), 25 via Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 10 via the United States Naval Academy (USNA), seven via ROTC at a senior military college, and three via Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university,
11 months ago
Anonymous
There is a marine option for the Naval Academy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, which is where you get
Marines are obviously different since they don't have an academy and are part of the Navy.
> 29 via Officer Candidates School (OCS), 25 via Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 10 via the United States Naval Academy (USNA), seven via ROTC at a senior military college, and three via Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university,
You'll never get beyond O-6 if you do that. If you want O-7+ you need to be part of the club and that means going to Annapolis, West Point, or Colorado Springs.
The literal majority of officers at senior grades come through ROTC in the Army and OCS in the Navy/Marines. The academies are becoming pretty irrelevant, but they still hold a lot of prestige. The current JCS did ROTC.
By the time you're an O-6 where you went to college is meaningless and people will look at your career more than a college you went to 25-30 years ago. It helps with networking sure, but you easily get by without it.
Not as true anymore; since GWOT the old boys club has opened substantially plus Wall Street, tech, and Main Street adore academy MBAs and setting them up with a cushy gig.
Lot of Academy grads realize a few years in that you can leave an O5, make a ton of cash while young, and the option for future political / military service when you're older is still on the table.
>have all the normal college fun >Can't smoke, can't get caught partying, and i doubt you get to sleep until noon, skipping classes to sleep off the night before
Doesn't seem to match up to me anon >while getting a better education to boot.
For the civilian world sure, probably not for military life though
The Air Force Academy is the only one I've been to (as in drove on to, not attended) but I think it's safe to say its campus absolutely shits on every other military college's campus. I went hiking there. How many college campuses have you seen with hiking trails on them? There were deer eating grass near the road. You can go camping or rent a cabin near a lake. It felt more like a state park than a military base. I can't even name a non-military campus that's that beautiful.
As for any metric that doesn't involve how pretty the campus is, I have no idea.
The Citadel in South Carolina >In the Deep South >Still wear Confederate grey >Zero bullshit >Prussian style culture >Alpha >Old School Southern discipline
It's no surprise that the South has the best soldiers today even going back to the war. >you lost
Did we though?
holy shit lmao. I can't imagine the mindset of someone who would choose to go there. >Do I want the prestige, networking, training opportunities, and guaranteed free tuition of a service academy? >Do I want to party it up at a school of my choosing with the school/cadet/life balance of ROTC? >Do I want to get my undergrad with no military bullshit attached and take my chances with OCS? >nah frick all that, I'm going to attend The Shitadel™ instead LMAO
Don't let the beauty of the campus grounds and natural area lure you in. Camp USAFA sucks to attend. The first year is hell, and the next 3 suck unless you don't mind constantly being hazed and shit on by upperclassmen.
Reminder that the Air Force Academy is run by a Protestant cult.
There's at least one megachurch in Colorado Springs that has a strong presence at the academy. They don't control it, but I'm sure several members of the faculty attend it. Occasionally, I think they would send up church members with pizza to try and brainwash cadets. I was there when the whole scandal happened with Ted Haggard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard
That shit was hilarious. An anti-gay evangelist pastor got caught having regular sex with a male prostitute and smoking meth.
Wow, came right to mind for me too even though it's been quite awhile since I played. They had some recorded image you could find as well iirc. For whatever reason I hadn't seen it before in fictional media like that. Really melancholy, that was a great ride despite a few flaws.
Service academy cadets are paid an E4 salary, but they see very little of that money. The school takes most of the money to pay for books, uniforms and services like laundry and hair cuts. The good part is that by your senior year, every cadet has a savings credit with enough to pay for a basic class ring, usually around $1,000. Of course, depending on your custom design, rings can cost $5,000 or more.
I always thought the rings were just some cheap trinket cadets got but when I looked up images it was clear that cheap they are NOT. Didn’t know they had to buy them personally lol.
Here are 3 star Admirals (to keep it short I am only posting those commissioned from 2000-2023)
141 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 74 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 17 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), 11 via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), 8 via direct commission (direct), 2 via direct commission inter-service transfer from the U.S. Army (USA), 1 via the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA), 1 via NROTC at a senior military college, 1 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 1 via the California State University Maritime Academy (CSU Maritime).
OCS/ROTC is certainly more common over the last 20 years, but it's pretty obvious you're hindering yourself if you expect ROTC/OCS to hold the same weight as Annapolis or a similar military academy when it comes time to pick upper brass promotions. The kid who went to Annapolis is ALMOST ALWAYS going to get picked over an equally qualified candidate that did OCS/ROTC.
The US needs to get rid of the Academy system as their primary means of commissioning. The system as it is now only creates a class of Officers completely detached from reality that rigidly enforce an orthodoxy for the simple reason of being taught to do that. They should function as finishing schools for cadets who earn undergraduate degrees from other Universities.
>The system as it is now only creates a class of Officers completely detached from reality that rigidly enforce an orthodoxy for the simple reason of being taught to do that.
ROTC is probably the most lax way to become an officer so I’m not sure how that reinforces a rigid hierarchy compared to Military Academies where you can’t even look upperclassmen in the eye
The purpose of being an officer is to be an effective leader that motivates his enlisted to do jobs well and looks after them. Orthodoxy stands in the way of efficiency and innovation which makes you a bad officer.
This is just a stupid platitude that doesn’t mean anything.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>advocating for your soldiers, treating them like people and listening to your nco’s is a platitude
please don’t ever become an officer
11 months ago
Anonymous
That’s not what you said, you said some generic bullshit about leadership and that orthodoxy gets in the way of it which is just >nu good >old bad
more often than not there’s a good reason for orthodoxy.
>That's literally the actual purpose of being an officer
Absolutely not and if you think that then you probably shouldn’t be an officer because your enlisted men will hate you and your fellow officers won’t want to work with you
Prior-enlisted USAFA 2010 grad here. A lot of kiddies at camp USAFA have this kind of attitude and have a huge chip on their shoulder. The "training" sessions there are little more than glorified frat boy hazing that happens almost on a daily basis. About 3/4 of the prior enlisted I came in with dropped out of the Academy because they got sick of all the frat boy bullshit and abuse. The only thing I learned from their "training" was how much of an butthole some people can be when given just a little bit of authority and how much I hated most of the upperclassmen, even after I became one myself.
TL;DR: Military Academies are overrated and overhyped as frick. Go some other route if you want a commission, especially if you're planning on going enlisted first.
They both do it. Both should be heavily reformed. Prospective officers should become well rounded individuals before they earn their commissions. As it stands, you create a lot of officers who have absolutely no idea how the world works. if you have confidence in your NCO corps there is no reason you can’t trust them to train officers at OCS and make that your primary source of commissioning after appropriate modification. Obviously this will never happen because the class of Academy and ROTC produced officers are firmly entrenched.
ROTC commissions about 6,000 officers every year
USMA commissions about 1,000 officers
OCS commissions about 500
Also, the Air Force can keep their globohomosexual architecture chapel. I want a cadet chapel with SOVL containing the battle flags and regimental colors from battles long forgotten.
They should change ROCC to WOTC because there needs to be a lot more warrant officers than commissioned officers
They're too specialized
Warrant officers are technical specialists in their specific fields.
How do you have a generalized WOTC program for all of those different technical specialties?
ROTC commissions about 6,000 officers every year
USMA commissions about 1,000 officers
OCS commissions about 500
Also, the Air Force can keep their globohomosexual architecture chapel. I want a cadet chapel with SOVL containing the battle flags and regimental colors from battles long forgotten.
Here are 3 star Admirals (to keep it short I am only posting those commissioned from 2000-2023)
141 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 74 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 17 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), 11 via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), 8 via direct commission (direct), 2 via direct commission inter-service transfer from the U.S. Army (USA), 1 via the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA), 1 via NROTC at a senior military college, 1 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 1 via the California State University Maritime Academy (CSU Maritime).
OCS/ROTC is certainly more common over the last 20 years, but it's pretty obvious you're hindering yourself if you expect ROTC/OCS to hold the same weight as Annapolis or a similar military academy when it comes time to pick upper brass promotions. The kid who went to Annapolis is ALMOST ALWAYS going to get picked over an equally qualified candidate that did OCS/ROTC.
Here is just navy 4 star admirals
>237 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 22 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC), nine via Officer Candidate School (OCS), two via warrant, two via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), one via direct commission (direct), one via the Naval Aviation Cadet (NAVCAD) program, and one via the U.S. Merchant Marine.
Sure it's a bit more common for OCS/ROTC commissioned these days, but hardly the norm.
ROTC officers rarely make it to the upper brass over academy officers.
Generally because they know how to operate outside the military and can get decent civilian jobs. When you don’t know how to interact with people that you can’t boss around you tend to make a career out of the military.
Anyone with officer experience and security clearance gets scooped up by the private sector, but academy grads make up the majority of career officers because they tend to be the most autistically obsessed with the idea of the military/their branch
11 months ago
Anonymous
Sure but it has nothing to do with them not being able to "make it" in the private sector.
They went to a military academy to make it a career whereas ROTC grads just wanted a free college ride. I'm just saying plenty of ROTC grads that DO end up staying to make a career of the military get passed over by academy grads in later promotions where the competition is fierce, and the upper brass are willing to lend a helping hand to academy alumni.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Sure but it has nothing to do with them not being able to "make it" in the private sector.
They went to a military academy to make it a career whereas ROTC grads just wanted a free college ride. I'm just saying plenty of ROTC grads that DO end up staying to make a career of the military get passed over by academy grads in later promotions where the competition is fierce, and the upper brass are willing to lend a helping hand to academy alumni.
Both of these statements have a lot of truth in them. I would also add that 4 years of training and living at a military academy brainwashes you quite a bit and makes you believe that nothing but the military matters, especially with all the sunk cost you've already put into it. With all this, you're more likely to pursue a military career.
Also yes, the academies are good ol' boys clubs and academy grads will have a preference for other grads, whether the consciously realize it or not.
It's just like ROTC, but on a bigger scale. The US military agrees to gib monies in exchange for graduates serving in the military.
The ironic thing is that there's more students than officer billets these days, so more and more of these private academies like Norwich and Texas A&M are turning to civilian students to make up lost revinue
Every academy student I ever met during my time in college was some combination of insane and traumatized from the sheer amount of abuse and their leadership abilities weren’t remarkable compared to the wider body of cadets
T. LT
West Point loses more often than not to the Air Force and the Navy. Hell if the Jarheads had their own team West Point would have the same track record against them.
likely true. All it takes is a satanic cadet making a request for a place to worship. Last i heard they got a forest clearing but that was 15 years ago.
There were issues with christian cadets 'pranking' the satanic forest clearing worship area
They were wiccans/pagans, not satanists. They requested some stone circle out on the wild to have their services, so they granted it and dumped a bunch of huge rocks in a circle for them. A few months or years later, someone left a small, makeshift cross at the circle, and the Superintendent and Commandant flipped the frick out and chewed out all the Cadets in the auditorium, vowing to disenroll any cadets that were a part of it.
I was there when all this shit happened. In the end, it was just some civilian that lived on base that did it, not even a cadet. Eventually, the whole thing just got swept under the rug.
The closest thing you'll get to a "satanist" worshipping area is the "free thinkers" services they offer. Anyways, most "satanists" are just atheists that get off on trolling Christians by calling themselves "satanists."
They are all roughly the same. When I was in USAFA was harder to get into and was better academically. Annapolis second WP 3rd. Supposedly USAFA has gone woke now. I don't know about the other two. The previous anon described it well but you essentially go through “basic training” from mid/late June until spring break after hell week in late March. You only get to leave base for labor day, thanksgiving, and christmas during that time. The experience was pretty breasts after recognition though.
The answer to OP's question is Coast Guard Academy.
anyways, I went to west point, so I can speak a little as to the strengths of that program-
Plenty of /k/ stuff to do. Infantry tactics club, combat weapons team (travel around competing in 2 gun matches on the gov dime), weapons cart day during history classes (fingerfrick mp18 and stg-44). Historical weapons shoots, go check uzis and aks out of the weapons room to run foreign weapons familiarization training in the free hour after lunch. I called a 9 like cas request in to an actual loitering A-10 as a cadet.
USMA gets more combat arms slots than ROTC, which gets more than OCS. This is the main reason that cyber was classed as 'combat arms,' so USMA would get more slots.
service academies look good in the civvy world. It was lonely, but I had a lot of fun and made lifelong friends.
I've heard the navy and af do this better, but a weakness with ROTC is how they rank cadets. You'll notice that every ROTC grad seems to be crim justice or political science, if you go to MIT and major in physics your GPA will be directly compared raw to the GPA of a CJ major at the university of phoenix (yes they have an ROTC program).
I'd probably have had more fun at a real college, though, but everything worked out. its a pretty rigorous academic program and I averaged 19 credit hours a semester. I've always loved PrepHole but the number of my friends who graduated with zero independent life skills was a tad concerning.
Oddly enough, i daydream about enlisting in the AF guard, childcare means I can't. Looked at the local units history and they deployed for 3 months to support anti isis operations. Get on a bus, get on a plane, fly to another country, generate sorties for 12 weeks, then come back. As someone who spent months planning deployments and redeployments I didn't even go on that sounds like a DREAM.
>I've heard the navy and af do this better, but a weakness with ROTC is how they rank cadets. You'll notice that every ROTC grad seems to be crim justice or political science, if you go to MIT and major in physics your GPA will be directly compared raw to the GPA of a CJ major at the university of phoenix (yes they have an ROTC program).
Can confirm. Mechanical engineer that did AFROTC for 2 years. I had top physical fitness scores, was involved in several clubs (and lead one of my own), but nope my 3.1 GPA just couldn't compete with the 9 "communications" majors who all had 3.9/4.0s in my class.
Yes I am salty. I want all that time I spent back.
honestly i tell people that want to major in something 'hard' to go to USMA or just go OCS. I know USMA gets targeted by people like rickman for being too 'isolated' and its better that officers go to real colleges so they can become better liberals or something, but i really do see all of the easy major rotc officers as one source of the risk averse careerism that invests the officer corps so deeply.
The dumbest officer is always OCS. However, some of the smartest officers I've met have been OCS, and they all have the same background. "I went to college for difficult major then decided to join the army and went straight to OCS."
>one source of the risk averse careerism that invests the officer corps >invests >The dumbest officer is always OCS.
I think the dumbest officer should look in the mirror
I'm heading into my senior year and about to do CST. I'm an SMC cadet, and they've adjust ROTC rankings a lot. Now if you have a STEM degree, and foreign language credit you're boosted to compensate.
Academic discipline is what affects it. I couldn't find one from this year. They're tweak it a lot. The army also offers incentives if you study a foreign language, and/or complete a study abroad.
The Citadel in South Carolina >In the Deep South >Still wear Confederate grey >Zero bullshit >Prussian style culture >Alpha >Old School Southern discipline
It's no surprise that the South has the best soldiers today even going back to the war. >you lost
Did we though?
>Prussian style culture >Alpha >Old School Southern discipline
This is a euphemism for "You will be hazed to the point of near death by anyone with an atom seniority" , isn't it?
Whilst on the subject of military colleges, does anyone have any opinions on the Australian Defense Force Academy, and RMC Duntroon?
I've got my YOU session in two months, and though I've heard good things, I'd like to know some individual experiences.
Annapolis
Also one of the comfiest towns in America.
Eh, it's alright.
meh. could be better. i like ellicott city especially when it rains.
ROTC at your state's normal college. Instead of going through 4 years of hazing and moronation, you get to live like a real human and have all the normal college fun while getting a better education to boot.
This
>He thinks hazing doesn't exist in ROTC
Black person you’re not even allowed to leave the Naval Academy campus until after your freshman year and even then you need written permission. You have to salute the upper class midshipmen and basically do whatever they say. They have actual E-7’s chewing out 18 year old freshmen on a daily basis. ROTC hazing isn’t nearly as bad as Academy hazing, and that’s a good thing.
>You have to salute the upper class midshipmen and basically do whatever they say
That's what you define as hazing?
Not enough sodomy for him. It is THE Naval Academy after all
What kind of hazing did you go through in ROTC that you think is comparable to any of the military academies?
I bet there’s a shit ton of sex slaves from all the pent up semen
Naval Academy, but this is the real answer. You get the same technical and leadership training at ROTC along with 2-3 days of PT a week but you also get to be a normal fricking person and learn how to interact with other normal people in the real world. My grandfather was a 2 star admiral and he commissioned by doing OCS right out of undergrad. He always said that Academy officers always looked down on other officers as well as their enlisted, even though they were usually pretty mid-tier officers themselves.
>My grandfather was a 2 star admiral and he commissioned by doing OCS right out of undergrad.
Then he was one of a handful. If you look at the record something like 90% of the upper brass come out of the 3 main military academies.
Not anymore, btw my 2 star grandfather commissioned in the 1950’s. Picrel is his rack
Here is just navy 4 star admirals
>237 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 22 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC), nine via Officer Candidate School (OCS), two via warrant, two via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), one via direct commission (direct), one via the Naval Aviation Cadet (NAVCAD) program, and one via the U.S. Merchant Marine.
Sure it's a bit more common for OCS/ROTC commissioned these days, but hardly the norm.
Assblasted mid trying to justify why he wasted 4 years of his life at Annapolis instead of partying at a state school
Ass-blasted ROTC dropout that doesn't even have the chance of making E-6, let alone O-6 or higher.
>did ROTC at state school
>got my BS in electrical engineering for free
>graduated and did 4 years of active duty
>got out and immediately got hired by Booze Allen at $160k/year + bonus
No regrets, enjoy bossing around morons during peace time for the rest of your career though
Could've stayed in for 20, retired as at least a captain and then worked for Booze making $250k+ starting and with a pension on the backburner.
Tbh having a dog shit work/life balance for 20 years isn’t worth the pension imo. I’m only in my early 30’s and Booze Allen is gonna pay for my MS degree so I’m not worried about breaking $250k within the next 10 years, plus I can actually go home every night and frick my wife/go camping on the weekends/raise my kid. My uncle was a career Marine officer and his kids (my cousins) ended up being stoners because he was never home to actually raise them.
>and his kids (my cousins) ended up being stoners because he was never home to actually raise them.
That's a cop out explanation. Kids don't smoke pot because daddy wasn't there to set them straight.
>Kids don't smoke pot because daddy wasn't there to set them straight.
That’s exactly why kids smoke weed in high school
No the frick it's not, and I say that as someone that smoked weed in highschool.
Kids smoke weed in highschool because everyone else is also smoking weed in highschool and because it gives a pleasant experience (for most people).
At my highschool (in the mid 2000s) from the senior class of 300 students, I doubt you could find more than 20-30 that had NEVER smoked pot.
>senior class of 300 students
city schools are riddled with drugs, shocker
If you think a senior class of 300 is a "city" school you should have a nice day.
Big city high schools have senior classes of 500+ students. 200-300 students in a class is an average suburban highschool.
Suburban schools are just city schools with less black people, hence the drug problems
And rural schools are just suburban schools but with a meth and alcohol problem instead of a weed problem.
never had meth or alcohol problems in my rural school, but it sounds like you did have major drug issues in your suburban school. the suburbs are breeding grounds for entitled homosexuals and are unironically worse than cities
Like you'd know, no teacher worth a damn is going to teach in your hell hole to begin with, I doubt you'd recognize a condom, let alone a meth pipe.
you doubt I’d recognize a meth pipe? because we didn’t have drug problems in my community?
No, I doubt your general education standard because you can't recognize a meth pipe, something i've never seen used in real life either, but something I would instantly recognize, because I received an actual education apparently.
congrats on your extensive knowledge of drug paraphernalia anon
I'd take a methhead over fricking Black folk anyday
While I agree suburbanites are homosexuals, rural America is deader than a doornail
The most fricked up kids (in affluent areas) are generally the kids of preachers and policemen.
>boomers STILL don’t realize that being an absent parent is bad for their kids
why even have kids if you’re not gonna be there for them?
If you look at the rates people in the US smoke pot regularly, it has no real correlation with parenting situations, like I said, it's a complete cop out explanation that has no basis in reality.
To each their own, I'd rather be in for 20+ (depending on where I cap out on rank politically) with an assured pension and enter the private sector with the freedom to job hunt and be picky about when/where I work since I wouldn't particularly NEED a job ASAP.
I already have a healthy work/personal life balance, but I also don't have a wife or kids, nor do I want them.
>gets presented with raw data proving him wrong
>a-assblasted!
Ringknocking is also a plague in the Navy, much worse than other branches.
Army 4 stars
> 161 were commissioned via the U.S. Military Academy (USMA), 53 via Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university, 16 via direct commission (direct), 14 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), eight via ROTC at a senior military college, one via ROTC at a military junior college, one via direct commission in the Army National Guard (ARNG), one via the aviation cadet program, and one via battlefield commission.
Air Force 4 stars
> 60 were commissioned via the U.S. Military Academy (USMA), 49 via the aviation cadet program, 45 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 42 via Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC) at a civilian university, 13 via AFROTC at a senior military college, nine via Air Force Officer Training School (OTS), four via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), four via Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university, two via direct commission (direct), one via direct commission inter-service transfer from the Army National Guard (ARNG), and one via direct commission inter-service transfer from the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF).
A bit better, but not amazing.
Do the Marines, I know they get 60%+ of their officers period from OCS. The previous commandant commissioned via OCS.
Marines are obviously different since they don't have an academy and are part of the Navy.
> 29 via Officer Candidates School (OCS), 25 via Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 10 via the United States Naval Academy (USNA), seven via ROTC at a senior military college, and three via Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) at a civilian university,
There is a marine option for the Naval Academy.
Yes, which is where you get
>10 via the United States Naval Academy (USNA)
got any korean war story and soviet naval banter ?
He commissioned in the mid 50’s so he missed Korea but he did do 4 deployments to Vietnam. He never talked about it though.
>he never talked about it though
You just know.
>You get the same technical and leadership training at ROTC along with 2-3 days of PT
NO! An ROTC program doesn't get you anywhere near enough experience like a military academy does to be a commissioned officer
Found the ring knocker
You'll never get beyond O-6 if you do that. If you want O-7+ you need to be part of the club and that means going to Annapolis, West Point, or Colorado Springs.
The literal majority of officers at senior grades come through ROTC in the Army and OCS in the Navy/Marines. The academies are becoming pretty irrelevant, but they still hold a lot of prestige. The current JCS did ROTC.
By the time you're an O-6 where you went to college is meaningless and people will look at your career more than a college you went to 25-30 years ago. It helps with networking sure, but you easily get by without it.
Not as true anymore; since GWOT the old boys club has opened substantially plus Wall Street, tech, and Main Street adore academy MBAs and setting them up with a cushy gig.
Lot of Academy grads realize a few years in that you can leave an O5, make a ton of cash while young, and the option for future political / military service when you're older is still on the table.
>have all the normal college fun
>Can't smoke, can't get caught partying, and i doubt you get to sleep until noon, skipping classes to sleep off the night before
Doesn't seem to match up to me anon
>while getting a better education to boot.
For the civilian world sure, probably not for military life though
This. Anyone saying otherwise never went to a military academy. Unless of course you want to be an Admiral/General.
The Citadel
No
TAMU
>gaygies
hell yeah go dogs
and frick sgt green
The Air Force Academy is the only one I've been to (as in drove on to, not attended) but I think it's safe to say its campus absolutely shits on every other military college's campus. I went hiking there. How many college campuses have you seen with hiking trails on them? There were deer eating grass near the road. You can go camping or rent a cabin near a lake. It felt more like a state park than a military base. I can't even name a non-military campus that's that beautiful.
As for any metric that doesn't involve how pretty the campus is, I have no idea.
holy shit lmao. I can't imagine the mindset of someone who would choose to go there.
>Do I want the prestige, networking, training opportunities, and guaranteed free tuition of a service academy?
>Do I want to party it up at a school of my choosing with the school/cadet/life balance of ROTC?
>Do I want to get my undergrad with no military bullshit attached and take my chances with OCS?
>nah frick all that, I'm going to attend The Shitadel™ instead LMAO
Don't let the beauty of the campus grounds and natural area lure you in. Camp USAFA sucks to attend. The first year is hell, and the next 3 suck unless you don't mind constantly being hazed and shit on by upperclassmen.
There's at least one megachurch in Colorado Springs that has a strong presence at the academy. They don't control it, but I'm sure several members of the faculty attend it. Occasionally, I think they would send up church members with pizza to try and brainwash cadets. I was there when the whole scandal happened with Ted Haggard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard
That shit was hilarious. An anti-gay evangelist pastor got caught having regular sex with a male prostitute and smoking meth.
I banged a hot cadet as an E4. Does that mean I can commission now?
What year did you do CST support, homie?
I HATE OFFICERS
For some reason there are only five enlistees for every officer in the military
JANNIES
LMAO so you’re a literal child who doesn’t even know what hazing is
I'm 18 you dipshits!
heh, I recognize that place.
I remember defending it with those jetpack guys in RA2.
Same, a very comfy mission.
Wow, came right to mind for me too even though it's been quite awhile since I played. They had some recorded image you could find as well iirc. For whatever reason I hadn't seen it before in fictional media like that. Really melancholy, that was a great ride despite a few flaws.
Does every academy have their own rings? Does having the ring itself an automatic pay grade increase?
>Does every academy have their own rings?
Yes
>Does having the ring itself an automatic pay grade increase?
No
Service academy cadets are paid an E4 salary, but they see very little of that money. The school takes most of the money to pay for books, uniforms and services like laundry and hair cuts. The good part is that by your senior year, every cadet has a savings credit with enough to pay for a basic class ring, usually around $1,000. Of course, depending on your custom design, rings can cost $5,000 or more.
I always thought the rings were just some cheap trinket cadets got but when I looked up images it was clear that cheap they are NOT. Didn’t know they had to buy them personally lol.
I went to a state University and ours aren’t trinkets either
What school?
Texas Tech
*knock, knock*
Here are 3 star Admirals (to keep it short I am only posting those commissioned from 2000-2023)
141 were commissioned via the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA), 74 via Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC) at a civilian university, 17 via Officer Candidate School (OCS), 11 via Aviation Officer Candidate School (AOCS), 8 via direct commission (direct), 2 via direct commission inter-service transfer from the U.S. Army (USA), 1 via the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA), 1 via NROTC at a senior military college, 1 via the U.S. Air Force Academy (USAFA), 1 via the California State University Maritime Academy (CSU Maritime).
OCS/ROTC is certainly more common over the last 20 years, but it's pretty obvious you're hindering yourself if you expect ROTC/OCS to hold the same weight as Annapolis or a similar military academy when it comes time to pick upper brass promotions. The kid who went to Annapolis is ALMOST ALWAYS going to get picked over an equally qualified candidate that did OCS/ROTC.
Having worked with ex sailors, I refuse to believe Annapolis produces quality people
The US needs to get rid of the Academy system as their primary means of commissioning. The system as it is now only creates a class of Officers completely detached from reality that rigidly enforce an orthodoxy for the simple reason of being taught to do that. They should function as finishing schools for cadets who earn undergraduate degrees from other Universities.
>The system as it is now only creates a class of Officers completely detached from reality that rigidly enforce an orthodoxy for the simple reason of being taught to do that.
You're thinking of ROTC
ROTC is probably the most lax way to become an officer so I’m not sure how that reinforces a rigid hierarchy compared to Military Academies where you can’t even look upperclassmen in the eye
>so I’m not sure how that reinforces a rigid hierarchy compared to Military Academies where you can’t even look upperclassmen in the eye
That's literally the actual purpose of being an officer
The purpose of being an officer is to be an effective leader that motivates his enlisted to do jobs well and looks after them. Orthodoxy stands in the way of efficiency and innovation which makes you a bad officer.
This is just a stupid platitude that doesn’t mean anything.
>advocating for your soldiers, treating them like people and listening to your nco’s is a platitude
please don’t ever become an officer
That’s not what you said, you said some generic bullshit about leadership and that orthodoxy gets in the way of it which is just
>nu good
>old bad
more often than not there’s a good reason for orthodoxy.
Nope I was enlisted.
You went to an academy, didn’t you anon?
The purpose of an officer is to accomplish the mission assigned. NCO's are supposed to take care of the troops.
>NCO's are supposed to take care of the troops
the zeroes make sure the NCOs do their job
>That's literally the actual purpose of being an officer
Absolutely not and if you think that then you probably shouldn’t be an officer because your enlisted men will hate you and your fellow officers won’t want to work with you
>being an officer is about maintaining rigid hierarchies
Let me guess, you’re an academy kid?
You must be a Citadel guy. Absolute zealot
Prior-enlisted USAFA 2010 grad here. A lot of kiddies at camp USAFA have this kind of attitude and have a huge chip on their shoulder. The "training" sessions there are little more than glorified frat boy hazing that happens almost on a daily basis. About 3/4 of the prior enlisted I came in with dropped out of the Academy because they got sick of all the frat boy bullshit and abuse. The only thing I learned from their "training" was how much of an butthole some people can be when given just a little bit of authority and how much I hated most of the upperclassmen, even after I became one myself.
TL;DR: Military Academies are overrated and overhyped as frick. Go some other route if you want a commission, especially if you're planning on going enlisted first.
American doctrine utilizes a heavy NCO presence, what you are describing is Russian
They both do it. Both should be heavily reformed. Prospective officers should become well rounded individuals before they earn their commissions. As it stands, you create a lot of officers who have absolutely no idea how the world works. if you have confidence in your NCO corps there is no reason you can’t trust them to train officers at OCS and make that your primary source of commissioning after appropriate modification. Obviously this will never happen because the class of Academy and ROTC produced officers are firmly entrenched.
NCO’s do train officers at OCS anon
>reading comprehension
They should change ROCC to WOTC because there needs to be a lot more warrant officers than commissioned officers
Warrant Officers are supposed to be technical experts.
They're too specialized
Warrant officers are technical specialists in their specific fields.
How do you have a generalized WOTC program for all of those different technical specialties?
>How do you have a generalized WOTC program for all of those different technical specialties?
Based on their degree you dipshit
What a waste of quads
You do realize that the United States Army Warrant Officer Career College can organize wotc classes right
>quads
what quads?
5s
That doesn't count unless it's the final series of numbers.
You're moronic.
t. Warrant Officer
ROTC commissions about 6,000 officers every year
USMA commissions about 1,000 officers
OCS commissions about 500
Also, the Air Force can keep their globohomosexual architecture chapel. I want a cadet chapel with SOVL containing the battle flags and regimental colors from battles long forgotten.
While true, just look at
ROTC officers rarely make it to the upper brass over academy officers.
Generally because they know how to operate outside the military and can get decent civilian jobs. When you don’t know how to interact with people that you can’t boss around you tend to make a career out of the military.
Based on your ass? Come the frick on, you're delusional if you think academy graduates aren't snapped up by the private sector too.
Anyone with officer experience and security clearance gets scooped up by the private sector, but academy grads make up the majority of career officers because they tend to be the most autistically obsessed with the idea of the military/their branch
Sure but it has nothing to do with them not being able to "make it" in the private sector.
They went to a military academy to make it a career whereas ROTC grads just wanted a free college ride. I'm just saying plenty of ROTC grads that DO end up staying to make a career of the military get passed over by academy grads in later promotions where the competition is fierce, and the upper brass are willing to lend a helping hand to academy alumni.
Both of these statements have a lot of truth in them. I would also add that 4 years of training and living at a military academy brainwashes you quite a bit and makes you believe that nothing but the military matters, especially with all the sunk cost you've already put into it. With all this, you're more likely to pursue a military career.
Also yes, the academies are good ol' boys clubs and academy grads will have a preference for other grads, whether the consciously realize it or not.
Norwich Forever
gay
t. Norwich faculty
Can anyone tell me why a military academy would be private like Norwich. How can a private institution introduce officers to the military?
It's just like ROTC, but on a bigger scale. The US military agrees to gib monies in exchange for graduates serving in the military.
The ironic thing is that there's more students than officer billets these days, so more and more of these private academies like Norwich and Texas A&M are turning to civilian students to make up lost revinue
Rotc is a government run organization.
Norwich is private.
Also, Texas A&m is public
Why not just go enlisted in the guard have them pay your school plus 1200 a month. Then go to OCS/OTS after you graduate?
*gets deployed to the border for political brownie points*
take the riding boot-pill
uniforms so good the real Army brought them back
Every academy student I ever met during my time in college was some combination of insane and traumatized from the sheer amount of abuse and their leadership abilities weren’t remarkable compared to the wider body of cadets
T. LT
Air Force.
West point football team is much better
West Point loses more often than not to the Air Force and the Navy. Hell if the Jarheads had their own team West Point would have the same track record against them.
They have a weirdo satanic temple inside that building btw
well I've been there and I don't recall ever seeing a satanic temple
likely true. All it takes is a satanic cadet making a request for a place to worship. Last i heard they got a forest clearing but that was 15 years ago.
There were issues with christian cadets 'pranking' the satanic forest clearing worship area
They were wiccans/pagans, not satanists. They requested some stone circle out on the wild to have their services, so they granted it and dumped a bunch of huge rocks in a circle for them. A few months or years later, someone left a small, makeshift cross at the circle, and the Superintendent and Commandant flipped the frick out and chewed out all the Cadets in the auditorium, vowing to disenroll any cadets that were a part of it.
I was there when all this shit happened. In the end, it was just some civilian that lived on base that did it, not even a cadet. Eventually, the whole thing just got swept under the rug.
The closest thing you'll get to a "satanist" worshipping area is the "free thinkers" services they offer. Anyways, most "satanists" are just atheists that get off on trolling Christians by calling themselves "satanists."
Real satanists exists, but they’re not the ones to tell you they’re satanists.
Why lie?
They are all roughly the same. When I was in USAFA was harder to get into and was better academically. Annapolis second WP 3rd. Supposedly USAFA has gone woke now. I don't know about the other two. The previous anon described it well but you essentially go through “basic training” from mid/late June until spring break after hell week in late March. You only get to leave base for labor day, thanksgiving, and christmas during that time. The experience was pretty breasts after recognition though.
my outward perception is that malicious forces are trying to erode the readiness of all branches of the military with woke stuff.
The answer to OP's question is Coast Guard Academy.
anyways, I went to west point, so I can speak a little as to the strengths of that program-
Plenty of /k/ stuff to do. Infantry tactics club, combat weapons team (travel around competing in 2 gun matches on the gov dime), weapons cart day during history classes (fingerfrick mp18 and stg-44). Historical weapons shoots, go check uzis and aks out of the weapons room to run foreign weapons familiarization training in the free hour after lunch. I called a 9 like cas request in to an actual loitering A-10 as a cadet.
USMA gets more combat arms slots than ROTC, which gets more than OCS. This is the main reason that cyber was classed as 'combat arms,' so USMA would get more slots.
service academies look good in the civvy world. It was lonely, but I had a lot of fun and made lifelong friends.
I've heard the navy and af do this better, but a weakness with ROTC is how they rank cadets. You'll notice that every ROTC grad seems to be crim justice or political science, if you go to MIT and major in physics your GPA will be directly compared raw to the GPA of a CJ major at the university of phoenix (yes they have an ROTC program).
I'd probably have had more fun at a real college, though, but everything worked out. its a pretty rigorous academic program and I averaged 19 credit hours a semester. I've always loved PrepHole but the number of my friends who graduated with zero independent life skills was a tad concerning.
Oddly enough, i daydream about enlisting in the AF guard, childcare means I can't. Looked at the local units history and they deployed for 3 months to support anti isis operations. Get on a bus, get on a plane, fly to another country, generate sorties for 12 weeks, then come back. As someone who spent months planning deployments and redeployments I didn't even go on that sounds like a DREAM.
>I've heard the navy and af do this better, but a weakness with ROTC is how they rank cadets. You'll notice that every ROTC grad seems to be crim justice or political science, if you go to MIT and major in physics your GPA will be directly compared raw to the GPA of a CJ major at the university of phoenix (yes they have an ROTC program).
Can confirm. Mechanical engineer that did AFROTC for 2 years. I had top physical fitness scores, was involved in several clubs (and lead one of my own), but nope my 3.1 GPA just couldn't compete with the 9 "communications" majors who all had 3.9/4.0s in my class.
Yes I am salty. I want all that time I spent back.
honestly i tell people that want to major in something 'hard' to go to USMA or just go OCS. I know USMA gets targeted by people like rickman for being too 'isolated' and its better that officers go to real colleges so they can become better liberals or something, but i really do see all of the easy major rotc officers as one source of the risk averse careerism that invests the officer corps so deeply.
The dumbest officer is always OCS. However, some of the smartest officers I've met have been OCS, and they all have the same background. "I went to college for difficult major then decided to join the army and went straight to OCS."
>The dumbest officer is always OCS.
Hey frick you guy
>one source of the risk averse careerism that invests the officer corps
>invests
>The dumbest officer is always OCS.
I think the dumbest officer should look in the mirror
I'm heading into my senior year and about to do CST. I'm an SMC cadet, and they've adjust ROTC rankings a lot. Now if you have a STEM degree, and foreign language credit you're boosted to compensate.
>and they've adjust ROTC rankings a lot.
How?
Academic discipline is what affects it. I couldn't find one from this year. They're tweak it a lot. The army also offers incentives if you study a foreign language, and/or complete a study abroad.
For prestige, West Point
For partying, USCGA
For sex, Anapolis
For gay sex, AFA
What about USMMA?
The Citadel in South Carolina
>In the Deep South
>Still wear Confederate grey
>Zero bullshit
>Prussian style culture
>Alpha
>Old School Southern discipline
It's no surprise that the South has the best soldiers today even going back to the war.
>you lost
Did we though?
>Did we though?
Yes
Demonstrably
Even today it's obvious the south is a shell of the north economically and culturally.
Reminder that it took the invention of air conditioning and massive government investment just to get Dixie where it is today.
homie hush
>Prussian style culture
>Alpha
>Old School Southern discipline
This is a euphemism for "You will be hazed to the point of near death by anyone with an atom seniority" , isn't it?
Reminder that the Air Force Academy is run by a Protestant cult.
No, it's run by the government
AND
And what?
Wrong
Exorcismus in Satanam et angelos apostaticos
What?
Kaczynskis Postal Warfare college.
Merchant Marine or Coast Guard, because you will make bank in shipping.
Whilst on the subject of military colleges, does anyone have any opinions on the Australian Defense Force Academy, and RMC Duntroon?
I've got my YOU session in two months, and though I've heard good things, I'd like to know some individual experiences.
military