Best clone? Probably.
Best priced? Probably not.
Unfortunately we both missed out on surplus A4 kits and parts a while back so you’ll ever have to wait and find surplus stuff, new produced parts, or buy a complete rifle like that.
the kind they store in the armory, all clones are shit
I probably should have clarified that I'm not setting out to have a trve a4 clone. Just curious what people thought was the best. Probably more interested in the upper. Price wise, thats for you to decide and me to ponder
I made an a4 clone minus the optic for $560 with both a PSA lower and a2 upper, and a m5 RAS from P&S.
It's hardly "correct" by any means and the losers in /arg/ would thumb their nose at it, but I just had some extra money and wanted to make a Ghost Recon 1 rifle clone so who cares
Best clone? Probably.
Best priced? Probably not.
Unfortunately we both missed out on surplus A4 kits and parts a while back so you’ll ever have to wait and find surplus stuff, new produced parts, or buy a complete rifle like that.
The original bushmaster dissipator was carbine gas.
The 604 was a broken prototype and the only reason rifle length “dissipators” exist on the market is because people who don’t understand how ARs work can somehow get a job selling them.
I swear the Dissipator is the ultimate moron filter.
It only exists because bushmaster had a shitload of spare A2 furniture sets.
History lesson. The 604 was trying to shorten the rifle for mech infantry and airborne forces. All of the manufacturers were trying the same thing. See the FAL Para and Congo rifles. Lots of dirty bush wars at that time, and everyone thought the Big One would have lots of mech infantry.
Fast forward today, the Dissipator layout still makes sense if you want fixed iron sights. The carbine length irons can't touch the longer sight radius.
Yeah thanks chief I know what the 604 and what a carbine rifle is.
I think you missed the part where I was pointing out the fact that the original namesake dissipator rifle was carbine gas with a single purpose front sight block and dissy gays everywhere don’t seem to understand this.
They don’t know what their supposedly favorite rifle even is.
You mean the Bushmaster Dissipator? Arguably, you only need a shorter gas system for FA. SA should work fine without the additional gas dwell. It will probably be a softer shooting rifle to boot.
I mean there's a reason they fell out of favor but I think they are cool and I'm not trying to get the best thing just what I want so maybe I am the ultimate moron
I don't really know why people view this as a negative thing, the main reason you would want a dissapator is sight radius or looks and a conventional gas system is just better.
[...]
Upon looking further I think I want to do a 16" barrel, larue quad, pri flip up front sight gas block, and a non over the barrel suppressor since I have some lying around. Still not sure about the barrel to cut down. Maybe I'll email compass lake and see what they think about the port sizes.
Dunno. I've got a Colt AR15-A4 and it's been good so far. Very soft shooting. Not the best QC, but it was only $1100. Shoots pretty decent with the 4x scope on top.
Why? Sidearms don't need high capacity and nothing else has changed as far as use/need of sidearms since the 19th century. There isn't a reasonable pistol getting through modern body armor anyway.
Like it makes any difference, most infantry don't carry any sidearm at all. In the niche situations you will want a pistol instead of a rifle it won't make any difference.
Also have a Colt AR15A4. Shoots great. Only had qc issues with the Colt SMG. Basically shipped with a hammer too short to reset properly, but their customer service was great and shipped a replacement within the week all the way to Guam. Fires great now too.
not op. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop on PSA, their prices are always so goddamn low compared to everyone else. For years I kept expecting to hear they were made of Crumbleonium. Now I just keep thinking we're going to find out they're made in a sweatshop powered by a forsaken child twelve seconds after I decide to actually use them.
My aero has outdone itself despite the company selling lots of barely milspec parts that I don't prefer to use in builds. With a free float tube under the handguards, jp yellow trigger springs and lightly polished trigger, and South African battle pack m193 its reliably 1.5moa with a best of .88 with 5 shot groups.
I think I'm more interested in that as I'm not going for the trve correct clone. The free float seems like it would be a good improvement with keeping the aesthetic
I kind of want to do something like this. Sam-R mk12 west coast as a dissipator with a stainless steel barrel. I'm thinking of getting a barrel from compasslake and having it cut down but not necessarily opening up the gas port to keep back pressure to a minimum. It will have a suppressor on it full time. It's a pretty high back pressure can so I don't think I will need to enlarge the gas port. I'm not sure which barrel to start with though.
I looked that up and the Sam-R took me back to forums posts from 2008. I guess it was the marines marksman rifle back then. Could be pretty kino to do a new take on it
I looked that up and the Sam-R took me back to forums posts from 2008. I guess it was the marines marksman rifle back then. Could be pretty kino to do a new take on it
Upon looking further I think I want to do a 16" barrel, larue quad, pri flip up front sight gas block, and a non over the barrel suppressor since I have some lying around. Still not sure about the barrel to cut down. Maybe I'll email compass lake and see what they think about the port sizes.
I'm not sure this thread is more so you can tell me whether that's true or not. I'm hoping to get enough info that I can maybe make an A4.5 or something that isn't a sperg clone but has the same minimalism. Just something I've had in my head for a while that I want to work through to see how moronic or not it is
For A4s Del ton sells heavy barrel uppers and pencil barrels
https://www.del-ton.com/Custom-Upper-p/cu110.htm
Their heavy barrel on an aero lower was my first gun and it works great for a poverty brand, though they don’t seem to offer chrome lined barrels anymore. For something pricier fulton offers heavy barrels as well, all their barrels are criterion
https://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-2-2-7-1.aspx
I'm not sure this thread is more so you can tell me whether that's true or not. I'm hoping to get enough info that I can maybe make an A4.5 or something that isn't a sperg clone but has the same minimalism. Just something I've had in my head for a while that I want to work through to see how moronic or not it is
Okay, prepare for text wall, because this irritates me a lot.
It is true. The govt. profile is fricking crazy because it's like they never questioned a single engineer about it.
The problem they were trying to remedy was a chance that after sustained firing and the barrel heating up, an affixed bayonet would cause the barrel to droop or deform, especially after being thrust into something.
So the solution they came up with was to reinforce the part that would in theory be most afflicted, by adding mass, to prevent deformation.
The sort of fricking obvious problem with this is the fact that the chamber end of the barrel sees the longest duration of, as well as the most high pressure and intense heat.
This should have been obvious.
They remedied this with the Colt SOCOM 14.5 M4 barrels, BTW.
You know, the ones that are notorious for being extremely accurate after sustained fire strings, as well as being specifically designed for extreme sustained fire rates.
As far as modern manufacturers for the 20" bois, Criterion offers improved "midweight" cuts that put more mass behind the FSB, as well as heavy barrels, and their "core" barrels are cut in a perfect taper that should also offer improvement, but you're stuck with a .625" FSB journal.
If you are looking for as close to a USGI M16A4 as you can get the FN is done out of the box. The colt will require work to get to the same setup and you will need to buy some parts like the Knights rail and the rear sight. not too much more work but once you are done the costs of the two will be almost the same. The one plus side of the colt is that you get muh pony. there are a few others that make A4 clones, but for the closest with the markings FN and colt are your best bet
Yeah from what I've seen the FN seems to be the buy once cry once complete version and a lot of other manufacturers have the A2 handguard even if it says A4. I've never built an AR before so I was hoping for something complete but now that I feel like I'm theory crafting it could turn into a learning experience.
>give combatants a way to mount anything they want anywhere they want on the hand guard >then give them a way to make the rest of the handguard not a cheese-grader.
I am actually shocked people who like quadzilla builds don't use covers more often. It's not like you're going to use more than like 30% of the space.
Small Arms Solutions highly recommends the Windham Weaponry M16A4
>QRD on who Windham Weaponry are...
The original bushmaster employees over a decade ago were going to lose their jobs because freedom group bought bushmaster and they've formed the company (Windham Weaponry) in 2011.
That question is irrelevant because quad rails are fricking garbage and D-rings are too. If you want a nice 20"er, there are plenty of good options with floated MLOK handguards
>I don't think that makes my question irrelevant.
It's irrelevant because nobody in their right mind wants an A4 clone in 20-fricking-23, when floated MLOK handguards are inexpensive and widely available
NTA, but I own an Aero M16A4 clone just to bring nogunz people I meet and introduce them to guns, almost all of them gravitate towards my M16A4 mainly because of their favorite movies and/or video games. I do like how soft M16s shoot and I'm planning on getting a Windham Weaponry M16A4 in the future and going to get a 2nd upper for it, their dissipator upper .
NTA, but I own an Aero M16A4 clone just to bring nogunz people I meet and introduce them to guns, almost all of them gravitate towards my M16A4 mainly because of their favorite movies and/or video games. I do like how soft M16s shoot and I'm planning on getting a Windham Weaponry M16A4 in the future and going to get a 2nd upper for it, their dissipator upper .
For m16a4 clones, i wouldn’t waste the money on fn or colt. Fn is good but costs too much and colt is dogshit unless you’re getting something from nearly a decade ago. Aero is good for the price but the barrel is nitrided. If you want the best M16A4 clone I’d go with Windham. The guys at the factory have literally been making them the longest out of anyone else. The price is good, qc is amazing, materials are accurate to a T. Unless you’re a rollmarkgay then go Windham.
T. own all of the brands I mentioned in M16 except aero but have a lot of aero shit
Going A1 clones is totally different due to the receivers being worth their weight in gold rn. Thats why you basically have no option other than to build one out. You can go on the used market and buy something off of some boomer or scalper or you can wait for one of the few companies who sell a stripped upper at a reasonable price like thundertactical, luth and even palmetto. As far as getting a complete upper, like I said either used market or brownells and palmetto if you don’t want to go broke. They are clone correct for the most part with no feed ramps, pencil barrels, .625 gas block and of course A1 style receiver. Some other places might have OG uppers in stock like Apexgunparts or retrorifles but they’re are crazy overpriced.
>colt is dogshit unless you’re getting something from nearly a decade ago
wait, what happened to them? what problems are people reporting? does this affect all their models or just the 20"?
Colt is just total garbage as with materials used and their QC. They just depended so heavily on govt contracts and told the civ market to go frick itself. Now everyone hates colt because they’re pozzed homosexuals and because their really lacking in QC these days despite charging top tier prices. I’ve personally had issues with my fsp on the one I got from them a few years back. It wasn’t canted properly and was inaccurate but I took it to get it fix and it’s all good now. Just shit like that you shouldn’t have to deal with. You’re paying for nothing more than a roll mark with colt
>colt is dogshit unless you’re getting something from nearly a decade ago
wait, what happened to them? what problems are people reporting? does this affect all their models or just the 20"?
Rollmark gays are collectors that prefer the correct markings on their clones.
If you go the windham route, it still has a chrome lined barrel that usually retails for around $1k and a KAC RAS is $320. Compare that to FN which, while assembled, is about $1800: you save about $500, and the Windham still comes with a detachable carry handle.
The rifle I was issued in the USMC back in the day was exactly that FN M16A4 with a 4x32 ACOG. I was in the first company to run the ACOG in boot start to finish. Ever since I've always liked FN guns
Colt and FN sell A4 uppers just put one of those on a fixed stock lower if you care about whoever had a contract, windham makes a nice one too
I probably should have clarified that I'm not setting out to have a trve a4 clone. Just curious what people thought was the best. Probably more interested in the upper. Price wise, thats for you to decide and me to ponder
Windham is the only one I’ve owned and it ran great, FN sells ones with CHF barrels which are considered to be better by many, no idea how Colt is
aero or windham
>trve
cringe homosexual
The intention behind saying it is to preemptively stop people from fully sperging out about minute details about what is and isn't really an a4
Apparently you thought it was being used unironically
troony pedophile, die
meds NOW
I made an a4 clone minus the optic for $560 with both a PSA lower and a2 upper, and a m5 RAS from P&S.
It's hardly "correct" by any means and the losers in /arg/ would thumb their nose at it, but I just had some extra money and wanted to make a Ghost Recon 1 rifle clone so who cares
Best clone? Probably.
Best priced? Probably not.
Unfortunately we both missed out on surplus A4 kits and parts a while back so you’ll ever have to wait and find surplus stuff, new produced parts, or buy a complete rifle like that.
the kind they store in the armory, all clones are shit
What do you guys think of the dissipator A4 upper? I think they seem kind of cool. Pretty sure its PSA so maybe its junk but I like the idea
Most dissipators are actually carbine length gas, del-ton is the only one I know of that sells a true dissipator
Probably better off for it.
The original bushmaster dissipator was carbine gas.
The 604 was a broken prototype and the only reason rifle length “dissipators” exist on the market is because people who don’t understand how ARs work can somehow get a job selling them.
I swear the Dissipator is the ultimate moron filter.
It only exists because bushmaster had a shitload of spare A2 furniture sets.
History lesson. The 604 was trying to shorten the rifle for mech infantry and airborne forces. All of the manufacturers were trying the same thing. See the FAL Para and Congo rifles. Lots of dirty bush wars at that time, and everyone thought the Big One would have lots of mech infantry.
Fast forward today, the Dissipator layout still makes sense if you want fixed iron sights. The carbine length irons can't touch the longer sight radius.
Yeah thanks chief I know what the 604 and what a carbine rifle is.
I think you missed the part where I was pointing out the fact that the original namesake dissipator rifle was carbine gas with a single purpose front sight block and dissy gays everywhere don’t seem to understand this.
They don’t know what their supposedly favorite rifle even is.
You mean the Bushmaster Dissipator? Arguably, you only need a shorter gas system for FA. SA should work fine without the additional gas dwell. It will probably be a softer shooting rifle to boot.
I mean there's a reason they fell out of favor but I think they are cool and I'm not trying to get the best thing just what I want so maybe I am the ultimate moron
I just like the style. 16 in barrel with rifle length handguards. I don't mind the feaux dissipators out there
I don't really know why people view this as a negative thing, the main reason you would want a dissapator is sight radius or looks and a conventional gas system is just better.
thats kindof sexy
Dunno. I've got a Colt AR15-A4 and it's been good so far. Very soft shooting. Not the best QC, but it was only $1100. Shoots pretty decent with the 4x scope on top.
God police are gay
Just build your own.
Based loadout. 1911. 20" barrel. No nonsense.
what kind of digital camo is that?
I believe thats USMC MARPAT
The 1911 in a modern conflict is the definition of nonsense
that's a neat insight, buddy, but I didn't ask
Your post is the definition of nonsense.
>the human body has fundamentally transformed since 1911
I once saw a man take 200 rounds of .45 ACP, clearly we need 10mm.
>only 10mm
Kids these days are being born with built in lvl3A we need more 5.7
Why? Sidearms don't need high capacity and nothing else has changed as far as use/need of sidearms since the 19th century. There isn't a reasonable pistol getting through modern body armor anyway.
>Sidearms don't need [XYZ]
A man with a handy self-loading rifle doesn't need a sidearm
Like it makes any difference, most infantry don't carry any sidearm at all. In the niche situations you will want a pistol instead of a rifle it won't make any difference.
Also have a Colt AR15A4. Shoots great. Only had qc issues with the Colt SMG. Basically shipped with a hammer too short to reset properly, but their customer service was great and shipped a replacement within the week all the way to Guam. Fires great now too.
What are gun laws like in Guam? Also how do you get ammo with how expensive haz shipments by sea freight are?
my dude, psa does it far cheaper. dont overspend, just get their upper and a a2 stock and youre set.
not op. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop on PSA, their prices are always so goddamn low compared to everyone else. For years I kept expecting to hear they were made of Crumbleonium. Now I just keep thinking we're going to find out they're made in a sweatshop powered by a forsaken child twelve seconds after I decide to actually use them.
FN has a 4140 Barrel unlike the Colt AR15A4 which is 4150
My aero has outdone itself despite the company selling lots of barely milspec parts that I don't prefer to use in builds. With a free float tube under the handguards, jp yellow trigger springs and lightly polished trigger, and South African battle pack m193 its reliably 1.5moa with a best of .88 with 5 shot groups.
I think I'm more interested in that as I'm not going for the trve correct clone. The free float seems like it would be a good improvement with keeping the aesthetic
The Springfield because that's an actual brand the government buys
I have one of those Saber Defense run off uppers. Can't rally find alot about them.
I'll check it out. I'll eventually comb sites other than manufacturers to track uppers down as AERO and Colt don't even have A4's listed.
The coolest thing is their logo looks like the Thundercats one.
I kind of want to do something like this. Sam-R mk12 west coast as a dissipator with a stainless steel barrel. I'm thinking of getting a barrel from compasslake and having it cut down but not necessarily opening up the gas port to keep back pressure to a minimum. It will have a suppressor on it full time. It's a pretty high back pressure can so I don't think I will need to enlarge the gas port. I'm not sure which barrel to start with though.
I looked that up and the Sam-R took me back to forums posts from 2008. I guess it was the marines marksman rifle back then. Could be pretty kino to do a new take on it
Upon looking further I think I want to do a 16" barrel, larue quad, pri flip up front sight gas block, and a non over the barrel suppressor since I have some lying around. Still not sure about the barrel to cut down. Maybe I'll email compass lake and see what they think about the port sizes.
I'm told the Gov profile barrel is stupid, are there clone types that have a better profile barrel?
I'm not sure this thread is more so you can tell me whether that's true or not. I'm hoping to get enough info that I can maybe make an A4.5 or something that isn't a sperg clone but has the same minimalism. Just something I've had in my head for a while that I want to work through to see how moronic or not it is
For A4s Del ton sells heavy barrel uppers and pencil barrels
https://www.del-ton.com/Custom-Upper-p/cu110.htm
Their heavy barrel on an aero lower was my first gun and it works great for a poverty brand, though they don’t seem to offer chrome lined barrels anymore. For something pricier fulton offers heavy barrels as well, all their barrels are criterion
https://www.fulton-armory.com/fariflecal556mmupruniversalprecisionrifle-3-2-2-7-1.aspx
I noticed Midwest Industries uses Criterion as well was thinking of picking up one
Okay, prepare for text wall, because this irritates me a lot.
It is true. The govt. profile is fricking crazy because it's like they never questioned a single engineer about it.
The problem they were trying to remedy was a chance that after sustained firing and the barrel heating up, an affixed bayonet would cause the barrel to droop or deform, especially after being thrust into something.
So the solution they came up with was to reinforce the part that would in theory be most afflicted, by adding mass, to prevent deformation.
The sort of fricking obvious problem with this is the fact that the chamber end of the barrel sees the longest duration of, as well as the most high pressure and intense heat.
This should have been obvious.
They remedied this with the Colt SOCOM 14.5 M4 barrels, BTW.
You know, the ones that are notorious for being extremely accurate after sustained fire strings, as well as being specifically designed for extreme sustained fire rates.
As far as modern manufacturers for the 20" bois, Criterion offers improved "midweight" cuts that put more mass behind the FSB, as well as heavy barrels, and their "core" barrels are cut in a perfect taper that should also offer improvement, but you're stuck with a .625" FSB journal.
I'm leaning towards criterion core as I've even heard of them before and had looked at purchasing from them
so what's the best barrel? heavy profile?
If you are looking for as close to a USGI M16A4 as you can get the FN is done out of the box. The colt will require work to get to the same setup and you will need to buy some parts like the Knights rail and the rear sight. not too much more work but once you are done the costs of the two will be almost the same. The one plus side of the colt is that you get muh pony. there are a few others that make A4 clones, but for the closest with the markings FN and colt are your best bet
Yeah from what I've seen the FN seems to be the buy once cry once complete version and a lot of other manufacturers have the A2 handguard even if it says A4. I've never built an AR before so I was hoping for something complete but now that I feel like I'm theory crafting it could turn into a learning experience.
https://ggg.galleryofguns.com/
Leave the camogays alone.
My Colt AR-15A4 has been good to me, no QC problems but bought it new back in 2016ish for just over a grand
>Better times
>covers rifle in rails
>covers all rails with rail covers
What did they mean by this?
>give combatants a way to mount anything they want anywhere they want on the hand guard
>then give them a way to make the rest of the handguard not a cheese-grader.
I am actually shocked people who like quadzilla builds don't use covers more often. It's not like you're going to use more than like 30% of the space.
Small Arms Solutions highly recommends the Windham Weaponry M16A4
>QRD on who Windham Weaponry are...
The original bushmaster employees over a decade ago were going to lose their jobs because freedom group bought bushmaster and they've formed the company (Windham Weaponry) in 2011.
For what reason should I care about this guys opinion?
Small Arms Solutions was an ex-colt employee and has been with the firearms industry for decades.
Ok zoomer.
That question is irrelevant because quad rails are fricking garbage and D-rings are too. If you want a nice 20"er, there are plenty of good options with floated MLOK handguards
Obviously there is a reason the m16a4 isn't replacing current small arms around the globe. I don't think that makes my question irrelevant.
>I don't think that makes my question irrelevant.
It's irrelevant because nobody in their right mind wants an A4 clone in 20-fricking-23, when floated MLOK handguards are inexpensive and widely available
Yes they absolutely do. It isn't about making an argument that it's superior or not.
Okay boomer. I bet you post in /sgg/
Again, NTA.
>thinks I was accusing you of samegayging
Nah, I am aware that I am responding to two fudds
Wrong and wrong
NTA, but I own an Aero M16A4 clone just to bring nogunz people I meet and introduce them to guns, almost all of them gravitate towards my M16A4 mainly because of their favorite movies and/or video games. I do like how soft M16s shoot and I'm planning on getting a Windham Weaponry M16A4 in the future and going to get a 2nd upper for it, their dissipator upper .
It's really not that big of a deal dude calm down
>NO FUN ALLOWED EVERYTHING HAS TO BE PRACTICAL
have a nice day
I want an a4 clone so I can put a 2 piece free floated mlok handguard on it
Then do it. Nobody likes all talk.
Can it be free floated with a front post sight still? KAC website says the handguard requires the rifle to have " fixed front sight/gas block"
Would like to know if there are aftermarket parts that allow this
>lets make a 12 pound front heavy POS...because!
USMC never ever.
The M16A4? Nonsense. Probably weighs 8lbs with ACOG and PEQ. You are right if you're b***hing about the M27 IAR, I think that thing's moronic.
The A4 is almost 8 lbs unloaded, my dude.
anon pretty much ANY metal-lower AR is going to weigh 10+ lbs once you put optics and a loaded mag in.
I can't believe 5 geriatrics are mad that quad rails suck
Who's disagreeing with you? Relent homosexual. Your efforts are in vain here.
>t.
For m16a4 clones, i wouldn’t waste the money on fn or colt. Fn is good but costs too much and colt is dogshit unless you’re getting something from nearly a decade ago. Aero is good for the price but the barrel is nitrided. If you want the best M16A4 clone I’d go with Windham. The guys at the factory have literally been making them the longest out of anyone else. The price is good, qc is amazing, materials are accurate to a T. Unless you’re a rollmarkgay then go Windham.
T. own all of the brands I mentioned in M16 except aero but have a lot of aero shit
What are your thoughts on A1 clone brands?
Going A1 clones is totally different due to the receivers being worth their weight in gold rn. Thats why you basically have no option other than to build one out. You can go on the used market and buy something off of some boomer or scalper or you can wait for one of the few companies who sell a stripped upper at a reasonable price like thundertactical, luth and even palmetto. As far as getting a complete upper, like I said either used market or brownells and palmetto if you don’t want to go broke. They are clone correct for the most part with no feed ramps, pencil barrels, .625 gas block and of course A1 style receiver. Some other places might have OG uppers in stock like Apexgunparts or retrorifles but they’re are crazy overpriced.
Colt is just total garbage as with materials used and their QC. They just depended so heavily on govt contracts and told the civ market to go frick itself. Now everyone hates colt because they’re pozzed homosexuals and because their really lacking in QC these days despite charging top tier prices. I’ve personally had issues with my fsp on the one I got from them a few years back. It wasn’t canted properly and was inaccurate but I took it to get it fix and it’s all good now. Just shit like that you shouldn’t have to deal with. You’re paying for nothing more than a roll mark with colt
Same with shit and wesson,ruger,beretta,FN, and BCM.
Yeah pretty much
12lbs for an M16A4? Maybe with optic laser and bipod. A4 with acog and quad rail is 9lbs
>colt is dogshit unless you’re getting something from nearly a decade ago
wait, what happened to them? what problems are people reporting? does this affect all their models or just the 20"?
I do think FN is too expensive although it is the complete version with chrome lined barrel and handguard. What's a rollmarkgay?
Rollmark gays are collectors that prefer the correct markings on their clones.
If you go the windham route, it still has a chrome lined barrel that usually retails for around $1k and a KAC RAS is $320. Compare that to FN which, while assembled, is about $1800: you save about $500, and the Windham still comes with a detachable carry handle.
I'm not too worried about being clone correct just trying to learn. Never built before so do's and don'ts/compatibility etc. is what I need to learn
The rifle I was issued in the USMC back in the day was exactly that FN M16A4 with a 4x32 ACOG. I was in the first company to run the ACOG in boot start to finish. Ever since I've always liked FN guns