What is cheaper to run?
A gas tankless hot water heater or electric tankless hot water heater?
I can't get a straight answer on google.
What is cheaper to run? A gas tankless hot water heater or electric tankless hot water heater?
What is cheaper to run?
A gas tankless hot water heater or electric tankless hot water heater?
I can't get a straight answer on google.
Rather depends on the price per kWh of either energy source in your country, now doesnt it.
I keep hearing this but I don't know how to make those numbers make sense.
What is the formula to determine this?
look at the price per kwh of one
then the other
the bigger number is the one that costs more
But the gas ones don't have price per kwh since they're gas, not electric?
also how did you get this picture of me?
well, a predictable amount of gas will produce 1kwh per unit. just look up what that unit size is and you're done.
based on your choice of water heaters, i'm assuming eurogay, so idk, centiliters divided by the temperature of burning natural gas quantity squared times the speed of light all divided by one half - er, excuse me - 0.5 times the square root of two.
or whatever the frick you weirdos do.
what
we just use kWh for gas
you are the weirdos with BTU
t. euro
don't look up AC specs
non sequitur
also
>also how did you get this picture of me?
wouldn't you like to know
his joke was funny. yours was not. boomer?
>he thinks this whole thread isn't some moronic joke
ngmi
>But the gas ones don't have price per kwh since they're gas, not electric?
You sir, are the moronic.
All energy sources from jacking of to nuclear bombs can be expressed in kWh. Or Joules if you are feeling really fancy.
Plus any service charges that are tacked on. In some cases, it's cheaper to not have gas at all.
>service charges
>not have gas at all
yhew vhill be cold
and yhew vhill love me in yhor shivverink!
If you use an electric tankless unit you will have to have multiple 220 lines run to where the unit is. This depends on how many gallons per minute. expect 2 gpm for each faucet you want to run at the same time. with a minimum of 4gpm for one person in a small house.
for me where I live 1 220 50amp outlet run about 20 feet cost $850. A 220 60 amp run of about 100 feet cost about $3400
if you have gas I would do that.
even gas requires a bigger gas line too
like if you have a gas tank and you want to switch to gas tankless you'll need a bigger pipe
it'll also need an intake vent from outside
no it does not.
you clearly have not looked up the power needed for a high gpm tankless unit. a 7gpm unit needs 150 amps.
wat
how do europeans even live, 20 feet of 50A worthy cabling here is $150. I ran 60 feet of 60A to my shed for like $135 pre-covid prices
i can get 20ft of 10mm2 for about 30 quid.
no idea what either of you are on about
those prices are to have someone else do it, because I didn't want to deal with it, and was specifically told that it had to have a permit and inspection. plus I have money. I know I could do it cheaper. OP give no information so I assume he will be hiring someone.
Because with higher voltage we need less amperage so can make do with thinner wires. You goddamn moron.
Also there is no cable moron by amperage. Nowhere. Even you yanks use "gage".
>Because with higher voltage we need less amperage so can make do with thinner wires. You goddamn moron.
you need thicker wire because of heat, watts produce heat, amps and volts produce watts
>Also there is no cable moron by amperage. Nowhere. Even you yanks use "gage".
we give wire amperage ratings because the voltage is already known, 120 volts is the standard for household receptacles and 240 for dedicated appliances
to clarify, in america each hot wire is 120, even the 240 volts just use 2 wires at 120
>you need thicker wire because of heat, watts produce heat, amps and volts produce watts
kek you are wrong
the wire gauge/diameter determines how many amps can run through that wire without heating up the wire significantly
the insulation determines how high the voltage can be before a spark can break through the insulation and short out
by your theory high voltage cables must be really thick transporting several megawatts yet they are not
>the wire gauge/diameter determines how many amps can run through that wire without heating up the wire significantly
at 120 volts, if its pulling more amps it's producing more heat because VA=W
>you need thicker wire because of heat, watts produce heat, amps and volts produce watts
PrepHole electrical experts have to be the stupidest people you'll ever meet, except for maybe PrepHoletards.
heat is a product of power (watts) watts is a product of current and potential (amps and voltage)
go back to school
>heat is a product of power (watts) watts is a product of current and potential (amps and voltage)
>go back to school
the idiot I was addressing seems to think the entire mains voltage is dropped across the wire. If you are that idiot and you think that's how you determine wire size, then forget about school because it won't help you.
anyway, have fun. I'm out.
Heat is watts moron and those watts (the ones that can heat the wire) are the product of the current (as determined by the load) multiplied by the voltage dropped across the resistance in the wire, which is hopefully very small. We want to think of I2R here. We use larger conductors for higher currents because the resistance per foot of a larger conductor is less than a smaller conductor.
Higher voltage allows us to use smaller currents because they are both directly proportional to watts. We can reduce one if we increase the other and still get the same power at the load. By increasing the voltage we can use a smaller current and thus a smaller conductor. This is why power transmission is done at such high voltages, to minimize I2R losses.
Heat is Joules moron
Kek how. My 120 amp electric tankless has 150+ feet of 8-2 wire. Was like $200 with 4 new breakers.
none you idiot, that's how much it took to run to my shed as an example, cretin.
Wat?
If it's europe there's three phase power anyway.
If you also want to use it to heat your house go for gas. In most cases gas will be cheaper. If you only use the hot water to shower and from the sink electric is fine. They cost like 200€ and contrary to gas need like zero maintenance for decades. That will easily offset the higher price for electric energy. Any gas tankless i ever had to use (at least 7 or 8, some of them new) always had problems. I've had the classic leave the shower fully soaped up to restart the heater moment with every single one. Also yearly checks where mandatory where i lived so they don't kill you while you sleep. I'd personally always go with electric and be happy to pay a higher price for a more hassle free experience.
>If it's europe there's three phase power anyway. If you also want to use it to heat your house go for gas
the cost of a gas boiler you will not recoup before europe bans gas
When everyone is busy updating it's the best time to buy one second hand for cheap.
depends on how much heating you need. Heating with electricity is about 4.5 times more expensive than gas in Germany. You can get a heat pump then it's about the same but they are very expensive.
American gibberish.
Can we get this in SI measurements for actual humans? And you expressed it in Dollar value as well. Dont you know the dollar lowers in value by about 10% each month.
And this quadrupled based man is correct. Without price and usage, you cant tell shit.
I am both those posters.
here little baby have a spoon full of this:
https://www.rheem.com/tankless-electric-water-heater-sizing-tool/
here is a better one.
https://www.ecomfort.com/stories/1659-What-Size-Tankless-Water-Heater-Do-I-Need.html
>A gas tankless hot water heater or electric tankless hot water heater?
no one can answer this for you without knowing where you live, who you electric or gas providers are, how big your house is, and your water usage habits.
do your own work.
>What is cheaper to run?
They're not cheap to install and if you're installing a tankless in order to save money, then it better be because you have such a large usage of hot water that you regularly tap your tank. Needing more water at a greater rate than the tank heater can handle is about the only time they make sense. (or maybe if your'e replacing an existing tankless with an equivalent unit)
>They're not cheap to install
what if you do it yourself
People who can install even one of these items themselves don't start threads about which is cheaper.
well, if it's electric then you're probably going to spend a few hundred dollars on supplies (fat wires, wiring devices and breaker, maybe conduit etc).
If it's gas then you're likely going to spend a few hundred dollars on supplies (gas pipe, fittings, intake and exhaust venting, fittings, and supplies, condensate pump? or piping etc etc)
It all adds up.
Electric or gas tank water heaters don't use very much energy to just keep the water at temp. The standby losses probably cost you ~1$ a month unless you're in a less common situation like an island or offgrid. You'll probably never break even on the savings based on this standby cost within the life of the water heater.
There are use cases where they make good sense--- do you need hotter water than a residential tank heater can provide? Do you need more water more often than the tank can provide?
If you don't have 5 people trying to bathe/wash in the morning before school and work then you probably won't save money with one of these things.
thermodynamics teacher said that converting electricity into heat is a crime against humanity
>thermodynamics teacher said that converting electricity into heat is a crime against humanity
I squared R is 100% efficient.
>I squared R is 100% efficient.
and generating electricity in the first place really isn't
That was the point the thermo teacher was trying to make: you have to consider the whole system.
yeah no shit, i passed the course. carnot and the second law was a recurring theme and now the heat death of the universe doesn't even sound unlikely
An incandescent light bulb is 100% efficient in a cold room.
This is a joke, right? You don't actually think this?
>This is a joke, right? You don't actually think this?
Ceiling fans heat up an enclosed room.
literally everything that consumes power converts all* its power into heat, ranging from a fan, bedside lamp, vacuum cleaner, computer, or television. think of a room as a closed box, the power you put into it isn't going anywhere. maybe if you have very strong lasers through an open window it doesn't hold up but usually it does
t. hermodynamics nignog
>but what about AC
while i'm at it and prophylactically half drunk answering questions, your room is cooled down by heating up the outside even more, but in this case a room is not a closed system
he's not wrong but the point went completely over his head. midwits usually understand the first law of thermodynamics but they can't into heat engines
i should add that i am also a midwit but a midwit with a formal education on the subject
also why you felt the need to specifiy a "cold room" i honestly don't know. is it going to be less efficient in a hot room or something?
The cheapest stuff i have seen is the heat pump water heaters. For a very small electric consumption they will generate your hot water.
Upgrading from a tank style water heater to a tankless is going to be a net loss for many years. Yes, a tankless system is more efficient, however only slightly so. It may save you like $75-$125 a year in energy costs depending on how much you pay for energy and how much hot water you use. Now if you consider the cost of upgrading from a tank to a tankless might be $3,000, it would take over 20 years before you start seeing any actual savings.
On top of that, when you turn on a hot water faucet in your home it will take longer for the water coming out of the faucet to get hot vs how long it would take with a standard tank system. This is because in a tankless system the water has to snake it's way through the heat exchanger in addition to the house's pipes. The solution for this is to install a recirculation loop, however doing that will throw any energy savings right out the window.
Anyone know what the peak of gas tank water heaters is? Probably due to replace mine before this winter. How big should I go for 6 people? 6 adults.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-75-Gal-Tall-6-Year-76-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Tank-Water-Heater-XG75T06ST76U0/205811157
anything more than that and you get diminishing returns for twice the price
Consider how close you can place it to your point(s) of usage, length and diameter of your water piping.
Maybe a small tanked heater right under the sink is the best solution.
>this fricking thread
we're hitting moronation levels that shouldn't even be possible
Depends on the cost of electricity and gas where you live. It takes an enormous amount of energy to heat water that quickly. There is a certain homosexual youtuber who has some good videos on this.
Stolen solar tank from my neighbor
If youre in the us you want a natural gas tankless. As others have pointed out, an electric thankless requires a ton of juice and to keep your electrical up to code you'll probably need a whole new panel installed to handle the 140-160 amps it'll draw. I have seen houses overloaded with 700 amps coming out of a 200 amp panel, however, so you do you.
Most states have really cheap ng and not so cheap kw/h rates.
Most likely you won't have to upgrade your gas line because the contractors typically oversize lines. Even if you do you can just replace your current gas meter with a 2lb gas meter and add a few regulators to bring the pressure back down to 1/2lb. With the advent of megapress fittings this shouldn't be too pricey.
You will save lots of money on electricity if you currently have an electric tank. The tankless runs 120v and only really draws much power when it's running.
It also doesn't use any gas when its not running, so you'll save some on your gas bill.
The real appeal is endless hot water. If you have a family with kids or frequently have guests you'll never have to worry about running out of hot water.
>COLONEL MOTHERFRICKER AND THE WU TANG CLAN
>really cheap ng and not so cheap kw/h
to the point where I've seriously considered domestic generation
it's only the maintenance costs on the genset which kill it
for now
Gas
Electric anything is stupid expensive
Governments outlawing gas appliances hurt normal people
Gas
Tankless hot water heaters are over rated. Cost of ownership over the lifetime of the unit will be more than a tank for home owners who won't do yearly decaying themselves. The 50 to 100 bucks you save per year will be ate up by service costs. Just get a cheap tank and 15-20 years from now when it goes bad some better technology will be available. I have a tank in my house that has notes from the plumber says it was installed in 1998 and it's still going strong. I did flush it and replace the anode and I have replaced the thermostat.
I don't think tankless water heater will last a decade. A dead simple electric water heater can last twice that.
You're an idiot. This isnt the 80s anymore; modern electric tank waters are lucky to last 8 years. They sputter to the 6 year tank warranty then shit the bed.
Did you read that post? They guy replaced the anode and flushed it. That’s all you have to do to make them last forever.
>They guy replaced the anode and flushed it. That’s all you have to do to make them last forever.
Yep. The reason water heaters fail all the time is because people have no idea that this is something they need to do.