The F16's wont be going after A-50s in Russian airspace. But the threat of F16s is forcing Russia to move its A-50s closer to the battlespace, and thus twice now have been hit with SAM's as a result. Additionally, if we consider the A-50 to probably a 50% in commission rate, which is probably pushing it, this is probably going to end up with significant gaps in coverage that the F16s will exploit to probably attack the Black Sea Fleet.
Likely Ukraine will be able to time the coverage by attacking shortly after a Russian aerial raid which they will for sure make sure to have an A50 up to cover.
Ukraine success is founded upon being smarter than the Russians, which doesn't seem very hard.
>or are you gonna claim that the f16 is stealth ?
Well F-16 rcs is not that far off from SU-57 rcs and that being a hyperadvanced 5th gen stealth fighter, we must conclude that yes, f16 might be stealth aswell.
Technically true.
By russian standards superbugs and silent eagles are stealth. F-16 is kinda stretching it but it's in the same detection range ballpark.
those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has. they can be used as a platform to lob missiles and guided bombs. ukraine is not yet capable of conducting complex missions, as they are very hard and doing it wrong is too costly
and possibly this, to an unknown extent
in addition, Ukraine has suitable air defence to stop Russia from risking its air assets in missions that take them beyond the Russian border (although recent happenings are obviously questioning their capacity to do even that). F-16s should, at the least, force Russia to move further back still, limiting their value further. My guess is the Ukrainian air capability will grow slowly but steadily, and mean that future offensives by them can't be so effectively marred by Russia's KA50s; that is, Ukraine will be moving steadily toward combined arms attacks, and Russia will have to show what their later Su series can do (and how many they can actually field).
presumably the F16s are going to come with more HARMs which will probably be more effective at SEAD/DEAD now that they don't have to rely on jerry-rigged soviet planes to carry them.
We may see a larger air defense suppression/destruction campaign
those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has. they can be used as a platform to lob missiles and guided bombs. ukraine is not yet capable of conducting complex missions, as they are very hard and doing it wrong is too costly
If Russia had even a second rate air force they'd have established air superiority in 72 hours. As it stands 2 years later they are forced to lob missiles 100kms from the front line and still get shoot down.
>those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has.
Block 15s are literally more modern than the Su-34 and if they're getting all of the late-model upgrades and accessories then they mog even the Su-34M.
This is honestly one of the coolest looking aircraft. Going to be sad if they all go down.
I know, right? It looks like a toy but in a good way.
>those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has
on paper or in reality? because on paper Russia should have won in 72 hours.
there was a video of a Su-35 shooting R-77-1s at a co-altitude target from 85km and tracking in look-down mode at 75km so we can establish that as a performance baseline, do you think F-16 with legacy radar is capable of that?
https://i.imgur.com/OLsv4hq.jpg
>those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has.
Block 15s are literally more modern than the Su-34 and if they're getting all of the late-model upgrades and accessories then they mog even the Su-34M.
[...]
I know, right? It looks like a toy but in a good way.
delusional, you could argue it's worse than an F-15 but not a fighter with an entirely different design concept
Ukraine will get F-16s the West will hamstring them by only giving a paltry amount of JDAMs, Mavericks and Sidewinders.
Ukraine will then beg for AMRAAMs, it will take months for the West to deliver it and they'll probably lose a couple of F-16s to pilot error or SAM fire.
By the time they get their AMRAAMs half of their F-16 fleet will be grounded due to lack of spare parts and then they'll be lucky to get <100 of them with explicit instructions and assurances that they won't be fired towards Russia. That's excluding the modifications to ensure that these missiles will go brick the moment it flies over Russian airspace just to be sure.
they will get AMRAAMs from day one, they already use them in NASAMS and all NATO members have F-16 compatible weapons to donate, they will be fine
Anon, the primary fighter plane of the Russian Air Force is the SU-27 (1985) followed closely by the MiG-29 (1982) and the MiG-31 (1981) with the SU-34 being primarily used as a bomber.
The F-16 is only a few years older than these (1978) but is still being made in factories to this day in a highly modernised form. The last SU-27 was made in 1991, with MiG-31's not being produced after the mid-90's. Only the MiG-29 is still in production, but they can only make a handful of them a year and they are mostly for exports now.
Ukraine will get F-16s the West will hamstring them by only giving a paltry amount of JDAMs, Mavericks and Sidewinders.
Ukraine will then beg for AMRAAMs, it will take months for the West to deliver it and they'll probably lose a couple of F-16s to pilot error or SAM fire.
By the time they get their AMRAAMs half of their F-16 fleet will be grounded due to lack of spare parts and then they'll be lucky to get <100 of them with explicit instructions and assurances that they won't be fired towards Russia. That's excluding the modifications to ensure that these missiles will go brick the moment it flies over Russian airspace just to be sure.
...but the black sea fleet and kerch bridge won't exist though, right? the bridge alone is worth more than retaining influence over a portion of european gas imports
I just learned that México has a better AWACS/EW fleet than Russia even though we have only like a dozen aging fighter jets and only half of those fly at any given moment. What gives? They used to be a super power.
Russia always assumed it would lose air superiority against NATO. No Airforce, no need for AWACs. The original plan was to get their SAM's to do the heavy lifting. Unfortunately the USA took that personally and spent a god awful amount of USD figuing out the Russian doctrine was bad and could be countered.
it's not just engines, you might think you can just slap on engines and get them running, but as someone who works in aviation, the only way to get a plane that has been sitting that long running again is to completely strip it down and rebuild it, there are probably tens of thousands of components in there that need to be checked or replaced. It would probably take years and millions of dollars to fix.
>It would probably take years and millions of dollars to fix.
labour is cheap in russia and less red tape is speeding up the process, who cares if it is safe, may be shot down anyway
>the only way to get a plane that has been sitting that long running again is to completely strip it down and rebuild it
alexey you will be flying the airplane or your children will be flying out the window
Was the one in Belarus an operational AWACS or was it mothballed?
That one got hit with a fragment grenade that hit the antenna and put shrapnel in it. It could’ve been repaired, but judging by Russian maintenance schedules, it’s probably not.
>Russia lost all their active service AWACS already
If this happened to America, there would be US Generals being court marital and US congressional committees having soundbites of angry politicians demanding answers.
In Russia it’s just another Friday.
They only modernized the EW capabilities on like 8 of them. Anything else has old as frick electronics from the 80s which is completely useless for modern warfare.
Thanks for reminding us how much the Soviet lost, none of these could ever be brought back to flight even if they dismantled the flying one right now.
God, if NATO could send troops we would have repelled the Russian back to their border and freed Crimea.
you don't have to kill the last one, you need a lot of planes to get consistent and complete coverage, every one they lose increases wear and tear on the others and make larger and longer gaps in the coverage.
> When the First Chechen War (1994-96) broke out, a task force of four A-50s was deployed to Privolzhskiy AB near Astrakhan’, operating in concert with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker-B and MiG-31 interceptors. On 21st December 1994, ten days after the outbreak of the war, the Russian PVO regained complete control of the skies over Chechnya after a break of almost three years that had passed since the demise of the Soviet Union.
So, 4 minimum for a surge to control a zone. But more for longer duration with maintenance and crew fatigue.
puting is a loser by recycling old planes from cold war 1. That means he is running low about nowdays tech and he receives stuff from Iran and NK and depends on Wagner mercenaries. What a loser Putin, he can't win alone
>100
try 10 (maybe) >with most modern JDAMs and GBU-15s
whole three of them (total) that are donated. On the term they never hit anywhere near 100km of russia proper
these idiots don't understand the Europe West is retiring F-16s but most of them have been refurbished for 10,000 more hours and logical place to go is TZD
I wonder if Putin or Woody is going to push the VKS to learn how to do Wild Weasel? I bet they could largely attrit or suppress Ukie AD — being Ukies. But maybe modern Western systems are too smart to be handled that way so who knows.
>HARM
When I read that word I’m reminded of that old PC game No One Lives Forever 2: A Spy in H.A.R.M.’s Way. There was a scene in which you cross a bridge over a tank with sharks or acid (or something like that) when a barrier suddenly drops down in front of you with a sign that reads "You are in H.A.R.M.’s way". What a great game.
>what happens
Same thing as everything else. They pull out some older, mothballed equivalent that doesn't necessarily perform the function and give it a fresh paint job. It gets paraded over all news and then you never see it again.
meh i fricked up the link
To mess up the link, you would have had to post it in the first place.
Unless it crashes I don't see it dying, the AIM-120 doesn't have the range and I doubt anyone is going to give Ukraine Meteors.
The F16's wont be going after A-50s in Russian airspace. But the threat of F16s is forcing Russia to move its A-50s closer to the battlespace, and thus twice now have been hit with SAM's as a result. Additionally, if we consider the A-50 to probably a 50% in commission rate, which is probably pushing it, this is probably going to end up with significant gaps in coverage that the F16s will exploit to probably attack the Black Sea Fleet.
Likely Ukraine will be able to time the coverage by attacking shortly after a Russian aerial raid which they will for sure make sure to have an A50 up to cover.
Ukraine success is founded upon being smarter than the Russians, which doesn't seem very hard.
This, Black Sea fleet is finished once F-16 arrive, all of the ships will get sunk.
and how do you know this anon? do you know what kind of coverage and where russia has?
or are you gonna claim that the f16 is stealth ?
cant wait to hear the bullshit
>or are you gonna claim that the f16 is stealth ?
Well F-16 rcs is not that far off from SU-57 rcs and that being a hyperadvanced 5th gen stealth fighter, we must conclude that yes, f16 might be stealth aswell.
Oh god
Technically true.
By russian standards superbugs and silent eagles are stealth. F-16 is kinda stretching it but it's in the same detection range ballpark.
They already are.
The problem is that Puccia still has like a couple thousand pieces of air defense in theater of all ranges.
this
and possibly this, to an unknown extent
in addition, Ukraine has suitable air defence to stop Russia from risking its air assets in missions that take them beyond the Russian border (although recent happenings are obviously questioning their capacity to do even that). F-16s should, at the least, force Russia to move further back still, limiting their value further. My guess is the Ukrainian air capability will grow slowly but steadily, and mean that future offensives by them can't be so effectively marred by Russia's KA50s; that is, Ukraine will be moving steadily toward combined arms attacks, and Russia will have to show what their later Su series can do (and how many they can actually field).
presumably the F16s are going to come with more HARMs which will probably be more effective at SEAD/DEAD now that they don't have to rely on jerry-rigged soviet planes to carry them.
We may see a larger air defense suppression/destruction campaign
those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has. they can be used as a platform to lob missiles and guided bombs. ukraine is not yet capable of conducting complex missions, as they are very hard and doing it wrong is too costly
>those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has
on paper or in reality? because on paper Russia should have won in 72 hours.
that remains to be seen
If Russia had even a second rate air force they'd have established air superiority in 72 hours. As it stands 2 years later they are forced to lob missiles 100kms from the front line and still get shoot down.
>those old-ass f16s are no match for modern fighter jets that russia has.
Block 15s are literally more modern than the Su-34 and if they're getting all of the late-model upgrades and accessories then they mog even the Su-34M.
I know, right? It looks like a toy but in a good way.
correct
there was a video of a Su-35 shooting R-77-1s at a co-altitude target from 85km and tracking in look-down mode at 75km so we can establish that as a performance baseline, do you think F-16 with legacy radar is capable of that?
delusional, you could argue it's worse than an F-15 but not a fighter with an entirely different design concept
they will get AMRAAMs from day one, they already use them in NASAMS and all NATO members have F-16 compatible weapons to donate, they will be fine
Anon, the primary fighter plane of the Russian Air Force is the SU-27 (1985) followed closely by the MiG-29 (1982) and the MiG-31 (1981) with the SU-34 being primarily used as a bomber.
The F-16 is only a few years older than these (1978) but is still being made in factories to this day in a highly modernised form. The last SU-27 was made in 1991, with MiG-31's not being produced after the mid-90's. Only the MiG-29 is still in production, but they can only make a handful of them a year and they are mostly for exports now.
True, they are not match. They are far superior.
um, sorry sweeatyie.
mfw kalfragger-15 is included in supposed "Success".
What a shithole with flying trash, they shoot down their own planes KEK
This is honestly one of the coolest looking aircraft. Going to be sad if they all go down.
Ukraine will get F-16s the West will hamstring them by only giving a paltry amount of JDAMs, Mavericks and Sidewinders.
Ukraine will then beg for AMRAAMs, it will take months for the West to deliver it and they'll probably lose a couple of F-16s to pilot error or SAM fire.
By the time they get their AMRAAMs half of their F-16 fleet will be grounded due to lack of spare parts and then they'll be lucky to get <100 of them with explicit instructions and assurances that they won't be fired towards Russia. That's excluding the modifications to ensure that these missiles will go brick the moment it flies over Russian airspace just to be sure.
...but the black sea fleet and kerch bridge won't exist though, right? the bridge alone is worth more than retaining influence over a portion of european gas imports
Ukraine already has AMRAAMs for its NASAMS, and which is sure to include a surplus.
Western 4D chess, from air defense missile to putting on F16 pylons.
We'll get AMRAAMs in War Thunder before Ukraine gets them. Sad!
Ukraine already has AMRAAMS
>AWACK
Still one of the funnies memes the past week.
I just learned that México has a better AWACS/EW fleet than Russia even though we have only like a dozen aging fighter jets and only half of those fly at any given moment. What gives? They used to be a super power.
Russia always assumed it would lose air superiority against NATO. No Airforce, no need for AWACs. The original plan was to get their SAM's to do the heavy lifting. Unfortunately the USA took that personally and spent a god awful amount of USD figuing out the Russian doctrine was bad and could be countered.
>what happens when Puccia loses its last A50?
what if they got plenty in storage?
When you find pictures of A50s in storage you let us know and share it, won't you?
i'm sure russians can make them fly. Now they won't be safe to fly even without enemy presence but russians to dont seem to care about that at all.
Now THAT is a target rich environment
These don’t even have engines
>These don’t even have engines
>They will never fly again
using the same engines as
Tupolev Tu-134
Tupolev Tu-154
Mikoyan MiG-31
Ilyushin Il-76
Ilyushin Il-62
Sukhoi Su-47
looks like they could find engines if necessary.
holy cope
it's not just engines, you might think you can just slap on engines and get them running, but as someone who works in aviation, the only way to get a plane that has been sitting that long running again is to completely strip it down and rebuild it, there are probably tens of thousands of components in there that need to be checked or replaced. It would probably take years and millions of dollars to fix.
>It would probably take years and millions of dollars to fix.
labour is cheap in russia and less red tape is speeding up the process, who cares if it is safe, may be shot down anyway
>the only way to get a plane that has been sitting that long running again is to completely strip it down and rebuild it
alexey you will be flying the airplane or your children will be flying out the window
>looks like they could find engines if necessary.
>only 2 left
bet they wish they'd looked after them now
>>only 2 left
3 were operational at the start of the war, 2 are destroyed.
Did they get any old stock flying?
>Did they get any old stock flying?
Even if they did, their radomes are rusted as shit, so they wouldn't even work as AWACS planes
Was the one in Belarus an operational AWACS or was it mothballed?
That one got hit with a fragment grenade that hit the antenna and put shrapnel in it. It could’ve been repaired, but judging by Russian maintenance schedules, it’s probably not.
the one destroyed by spec ops was on an operational base and had engines
>Russia lost all their active service AWACS already
If this happened to America, there would be US Generals being court marital and US congressional committees having soundbites of angry politicians demanding answers.
In Russia it’s just another Friday.
>rusted, gutted, circumcized hulls
>this is what remains of the Russian AWACS force
Shiver me timbers
They will never fly again
They only modernized the EW capabilities on like 8 of them. Anything else has old as frick electronics from the 80s which is completely useless for modern warfare.
>Radar starts spinning
>*SCREEEEEEEEEEEEE*
>*Bing*
>*Rusty shitpile falls off*
>engines missing
>tiles (or whatever that compose the fuselage) missing
lmao
Thanks for reminding us how much the Soviet lost, none of these could ever be brought back to flight even if they dismantled the flying one right now.
God, if NATO could send troops we would have repelled the Russian back to their border and freed Crimea.
They will have a much harder time detecting cruise missiles with time to spare for a reaction
you don't have to kill the last one, you need a lot of planes to get consistent and complete coverage, every one they lose increases wear and tear on the others and make larger and longer gaps in the coverage.
> When the First Chechen War (1994-96) broke out, a task force of four A-50s was deployed to Privolzhskiy AB near Astrakhan’, operating in concert with Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker-B and MiG-31 interceptors. On 21st December 1994, ten days after the outbreak of the war, the Russian PVO regained complete control of the skies over Chechnya after a break of almost three years that had passed since the demise of the Soviet Union.
So, 4 minimum for a surge to control a zone. But more for longer duration with maintenance and crew fatigue.
>Chechen
if the entirety of Ukraine was the same size as chechnya, which it isn't, it's significantly larger.
>4 days
the chechens had fighters?
>How can you ask an AWACS to be the last AWACS shot down in Ukraine?
They will lose significant intelligence capabilities
https://twitter.com/KermlinRussia/status/1495481485259907072?s=20&t=QhYYkJvUsJP-w-27JZftqg
>when the f16s arrive
puting is a loser by recycling old planes from cold war 1. That means he is running low about nowdays tech and he receives stuff from Iran and NK and depends on Wagner mercenaries. What a loser Putin, he can't win alone
>cold war 1
nani?
We clearly are in Cold War II, anon
People are dumbfricks who cannot make the connection
Old SU-34s with 100 unguided glide bombs a day for a month caused the fall of Avdiivka when 50,000 casualties from the land army could not
Now imagine 100 F-16s, with most modern JDAMs and GBU-15s , hitting the Russian front like a Detroit slugger all night long, for one night
By dawn Ukranian troops will be strolling through the frontline for 10km, total collapse
>imagine 100 F-16s
I doubt ukies have enough people for 100 F16
>100
try 10 (maybe)
>with most modern JDAMs and GBU-15s
whole three of them (total) that are donated. On the term they never hit anywhere near 100km of russia proper
they're getting 19 operating in june and 60 total over a few years, hopefully many more
these idiots don't understand the Europe West is retiring F-16s but most of them have been refurbished for 10,000 more hours and logical place to go is TZD
If the US wanted it could give 1,000 tomorrow
I wonder if Putin or Woody is going to push the VKS to learn how to do Wild Weasel? I bet they could largely attrit or suppress Ukie AD — being Ukies. But maybe modern Western systems are too smart to be handled that way so who knows.
>HARM
When I read that word I’m reminded of that old PC game No One Lives Forever 2: A Spy in H.A.R.M.’s Way. There was a scene in which you cross a bridge over a tank with sharks or acid (or something like that) when a barrier suddenly drops down in front of you with a sign that reads "You are in H.A.R.M.’s way". What a great game.
I have fond memories of NOLF2 as well. Gotta replay it some day and see how it holds up.
>what happens
Same thing as everything else. They pull out some older, mothballed equivalent that doesn't necessarily perform the function and give it a fresh paint job. It gets paraded over all news and then you never see it again.
David Sacks is saying that Ukraine doesn't have enough trained pilots to fly F-16s and they would be shot down almost instantly by Russian AA
meh just send them anyway, what's the worst that can happen
it's not like mediocre performance is worse than no planes