What do we think of that? FN IWS.

What do we think of that?
FN IWS. Intermediate cartridge 6.5x43 (seems like it's the latest version of the .264 USA and ar12 concept).

https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/

Seems like a better concept that the new Sig 6.8...

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous
  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Why are they testing another 6mm rifle?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Because they don’t trust nig sauer

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        More like Rigged Sauer, amirite?

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      What's that blue-gray switch at the back, behind the fire selector?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Might be a takedown pin?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah I think it might be a takedown latch like on a FAL.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        BHO maybe?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      this might possibly be one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Very cool, but this feels like Butt Hurt Cope. Why 6mm and not 6.8 Fury? Make it 6.8fury, .308 and 5.56. Then let the market decide.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      So this is what they made for the NGSW project that failed?

      So they're *also* using a 2-part case design.
      Is that going to be the standard for modern cartridges going forwards?
      The Russian company Lobaev was also experimenting with a bi-metallic cartridge case before the Invasion.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >So this is what they made for the NGSW project that failed?

        No it's a different project.

        >FNA developed the weapons and ammunition under a U.S. Government competitive RDT&E contract awarded by the Irregular Warfare Technology Support Directorate (IWTSD), a government office, which is responsible for conducting research and development in support of U.S. and allied organizations involved in Irregular Warfare. Although this includes Special Operations Forces (SOF), there is a variety of other government agencies with IW responsibilities who share mutual needs within this realm. IWTSD works with academia and industry to develop new advanced capabilities. Originally known as the Combating Terrorism Technical Support Office (CTTSO), the name was changed to IWTSD, under the Assistant Secretary of Defense Special Operations / Low Intensity Conflict (ASD SO/LIC) in 2021.

        TFB had an article about the solicitation in 2018, with all the spec that was recquired at the time
        https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/17/cttso-releases-solicitation-264-usa-rifles-carbines-pdws/

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Interesting.
          Seems that the Army really jumped the gun on adopting the NGSW rifle. If they had programs like that, the other SOCOM rifle program (that FN also made a bid for), and probably something else at this point.
          I remember reading a lot of talk by Generals in charge bragging about the speed of their new adoption system. Perhaps it was too quick.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          However, I will add, that I thought this program was effectively depreciated in favor of the NGSW program.
          For example Textron had a prototype in a similar 6.5mm caliber (123gr @ 3000FPS) due to Army demands around 2017-2018. And then dropped it for the heavier NGSW demand.
          Weird that FN is still holding on to that early request.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/V8nmTeu.jpg

            Interesting.
            Seems that the Army really jumped the gun on adopting the NGSW rifle. If they had programs like that, the other SOCOM rifle program (that FN also made a bid for), and probably something else at this point.
            I remember reading a lot of talk by Generals in charge bragging about the speed of their new adoption system. Perhaps it was too quick.

            Adding to this reply

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      whos the fucking retard that put 2 charging handles a requirment

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >whos the fucking retard that put 2 charging handles

        They went full ambi. Charging handles are always problematic, there's no good solution. Doesn't look that great, but doesn't look too bad either. A video with manipulation would be good to have a better idea (seems like we may have a preview of the gun at Shot Show, so maybe we can expect a video)

        Still less retard that their MRGG concept (scar with the traditional ambi chargin hande + an ar15 one) or the Sig Spear (left side charging handle + ar15 one)...

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Just use ambi AR-15 handle.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Standard is more important than better.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      "Better" is also entirely subjective based on what you are comparing them against. Something might be "better" if its lighter but worse at everything else. It doesnt matter though because the whole fucking discourse around the new US rifle is a bunch of fucking autistic screeching from people that dont know what the fuck they are talking about.

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >6.5x43
    So this is just warmed over and necked down 6.8 SPC that uses mags that I'm sure are based on the Magpul/LWRC Six8 Mags and appropriately wider receiver?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Don't think so.
      Seems like it's an optimized version of the .264 USA that the AMU developped a few years ago, kind of an in between 5.56 and 7.62, but leaning more toward 7.62. Although the FN optimized version looks different, more like a bigger 6mm arc, not sure without side by side coparisons.
      That would require a larger frame gun, hence the "medium" frame ar12 concept, in between ar15 and ar10. So bigger mag than the SPC six8

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >AR12
        https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/ArmaLite_AR_12_Direct_Impingement_Short_Stroke_Piston/123-633428/?page=1#

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Comes from this concept

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            No military will ever adopt polymer cases untill its an established and well proven concept. Its been floating around for decades as a concept but its never been actually *proven* a good one via any long term adoption in the civilian market or any other realistic way. All you have is the hype machine and all the people with vested interest in polymer singing its praises and they are FAR from unbiased.

            Clearly, you aren't as smart as you think you are. In 1959 the US adopted the M14 - a battle rifle - when every other country was saying an intermediate caliber was better. They realised it was a mistake immediately and dropped the M14 for the M16 in 1964, just 5 years later. Nobody with a brain was against it. History sure is repeating, just not in the way you think it is.

            >Nobody with a brain was against it.

            You are full of shit and you know it. It looks like everyone praised the adoption of 5.56 because history has shown it was adopted and widely praised for the longest time. The early years of the M16 was a fucking circus and people HATED the fucking thing for many reasons much of which werent the problem of the cartridge itself. It was viewed as a mistake to switch to for years until its kinks were worked out of and it regained its reputation. The M14 was a fucking abomination from the start and its failures were entirely on its own merits or lack thereof. But the biggest thing you forget is that this isnt the fucking 1960s anymore. The army isnt asking for lighter rounds so you can carry more. They are asking for rounds that reach farther and have more "power" behind them. If you wanted to make the analogy of the M14 then it would be the US selecting another gun in 5.56 in the NGSW and wondering why it doesnt have any increased range THEN adopting the Sig.

            In all likelyhood the early adoption of the Sig will have some teething issues that will be hammered out as well but as long as the opinion that increased range is preferable to increased capacity its not going anywhere.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >No military will ever adopt polymer cases

              This new FN optimized version use a stainless steel case (2 part construction, like the Sig one or the shellshock case). So FN didn't go with the polymer...
              It's not that different of what the Army selected with Sig

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You did look at the image and see polymer plasted all over it right? Im mostly responding to that more than anything else and im really just tired of all the cope people are huffing about polymer not getting immediately adopted when it hasnt proven itself.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >You did look at the image and see polymer plasted all over it right?

                https://i.imgur.com/g2NZmSs.png

                Comes from this concept

                was the previous concept by the AMU from a couple years ago.

                The FN version, which seems to be the latest version of this concept, is stainless steel. See picrel or

                https://i.imgur.com/huIXJqS.jpg

                The round looks also slightly different. More 6mm arcish, just with a longer case.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                That was a presentation by Jim Schatz from years ago.
                You can read the whole damn thing here if you're interested https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2016/armament/18260_Schatz.pdf

                He was a proponent of an intermediate cartridge to achieve overmatch against adversaries, and at that time he explored different concept among them was the 264 USA, that indeed had 2 versions, one traditional and one polymer to reduce weight.

                It just happened that a few years later, the latest iteration of this concept doesn't use a polymer case but a stainless steel one.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Looks like Silver Bear 5.45x39 ammo.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                They tried polymer. Based on the article, it didn't work out.

                > When .264 USA was first envisioned, a big selling point was that it could be fired from an AR-15 sized receiver set. Unfortunately, like .224 Valkyrie, 6mm ARC and other similar-sized cartridges, .264 is on the outer limits of effective use in the M4 carbine. Worse still, between the size of the cartridge and size of the magazine well, there is no room for the increased wall thickness of a polymer magazine. It was obvious a new purpose built receiver and magazine would be required.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                They're talking about the magazine fitting into the magwell, not cartridge

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                The GD/Beretta NGSW was also full polymer but was fucked over because it wasn't pretty enough/they didn't bribe hard enough.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >This new FN optimized version use a stainless steel case (2 part construction, like the Sig one or the shellshock case).
                That IS Shell Shock case. Rifle version 2.0 with scalopped base, v1.0 had rounded base.
                https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/novx-pentagon-5-56x45mm-with-nas3-stainless-steel-casing-and-55gr-solid-copper-hp/49568

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Once again, you are portraying pure ignorance. The 6.8mm is simply overkill against anything not wearing a vest, which nobody is. It would unironically be a better use of resources to save up tungsten rounds and only issue them when somebody with armor wants to fight. In the mean time, 6.5mm is the better option. It's lighter, easier to gain fire superiority with, and works much better in close range fights.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                6.8 is good rifle/GPMG round. More power more range for DMR/battle rfiles and machine guns in the 7.62x51 package size. Same size round these guns where chambered before. Why not?

                >In the mean time, 6.5mm is the better option. It's lighter, easier to gain fire superiority with, and works much better in close range fights.
                5.56 is even better:
                >lighter, easier to gain fire superiority with, and works much better in close range fights.
                Why even make fatso slow underpowered round?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >That would require a larger frame gun, hence the "medium" frame ar12 concept, in between ar15 and ar10. So bigger mag than the SPC six8
        Fair, especially if it is Grendel/x39 based like .264 USA it really needs a bigger bolt than AR style for longevity.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    WTF is going on above the magwell, where "264" is written?

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I like it more than the sig gun

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    This is most likely an anticipation of the US Army realising 6.8mm is way too overpowered for general infantry use. There's like a 30% chance that the army ditches Sig in 10 years and decides to go back to intermediate calibers, in which cast FN will already have something to offer.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The army asked for a more powerful cartridge. They asked for one with more range. They asked for increased performance and better overall performance at greater distances and against armored troops. What was delivered has all of those features so unless there is a DRAMATIC change its here to stay. Sixty years ago this same dumb bullshit was spouted the other direction. Everyone fucking cried that the US was stepping away from the good old 30.06 and that 5.56 is a meme .22 magnum and would NEVER see common use because it was too weak. At least thats what all the dumbfucks that had no fucking clue what the entire point of changing to intermediate cartridges was. History repeats and its always the armchair generals that dont know what the fuck they are talking about that lose the argument.

      Will the new Sig rifle be a major success and become as popular as 5.56? Who fucking knows but its a hell of a lot more likely than it falling flat on its face because of a bunch of dumbasses shitposting on PrepHole who think they are wrong.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Clearly, you aren't as smart as you think you are. In 1959 the US adopted the M14 - a battle rifle - when every other country was saying an intermediate caliber was better. They realised it was a mistake immediately and dropped the M14 for the M16 in 1964, just 5 years later. Nobody with a brain was against it. History sure is repeating, just not in the way you think it is.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >when every other country was saying an intermediate caliber was better. T
          But anon intermediate caliber (aka weakened 7.62 rfile cartridge aka 7.62x39 or 7.92x33) is dead. It was trash and it died.
          5.56 is SCHV cartridge and its different concept.
          intermediate caliber - let's make csrtridfe that just worse than rifle round.
          SCHV round - let's make round that is better than rifle round at ranges below 300 meters.
          Learn the difference .

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >Military adopts lighter recoil caliber in a lighter easier to fire rifle
        >Military adopts far heavier recoiling caliber in a much heavier platform when modern enlisted are fat, low testosterone, or women
        Same thing

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Imaging designing your technology and weaponry around the current limitations of your users rather than pushing forward and requiring them to meet your new standards.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        because like the m14 theyre gonna realize that a heavy 20 rnd .27 cal battle rifle isn't the best thing for the individual soldier in whatever the next war is and maybe trying to make the basis of the rifle for shooting haji joe in afghanistan isnt the best course of action for a proper war

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Sig literally cannot do anything right. Ukraine showed that Russian wunderwaffe ratnik armor is a meme and an armor piercing cart (that couldn't beat level IV NIJ anyway) is totally unnecessary.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Its not about defeating armor outright though the chances of actually doing so is much higher with a more powerful round. You dont have to penetrate armor fully to at least partially incapacitate a soldier. Also the stronger the impact the more likely you are to defeat it eventually or cause enough damage to cause it to fail.

          Also you dont adopt weapons based on a single opponent. You adopt it because it works against everyone. You never know what the political climate might be like in 10 years. We could go to war with fucking france or something.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Wow so the SCAR finally gets a caliber conversion kit...

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Finally we are embracing tradition.... Bilt controls in the trigger guard has always been king but fuck they need to standardize on one fucking one!

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    looks much better than the sig
    also
    >No.56790556
    >556
    ironic

  12. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Unless they plan to sell it to the civilian market I don't care

  13. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Now make it 556 and 300blk and price it lower than a mcx

  14. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Seems like a better concept that the new Sig 6.8...
    Yeah, it really does. Better than 5.56. Not as heavy and THICC as that new Sig Spear NGWS in 6.8mm.

  15. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >long stroke
    >trilug bolt
    >self-regulating gas
    tacitly admitting the AR and their own rifles suck cock.
    i bet it even has assisted extraction and has the cam lug built into the bolt.
    AK chads stay winning

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >AKchads stay winning
      >because a gun nobody will ever use uses some features of the AK
      >meanwhile every rifle in service in the western world is a blatant AR knockoff of some flavor
      lmao

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Huh

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Praise the Robinson XCR!

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      fn made ak12 but actually?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      XCRchads won. FN admits their design isn't as good.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        design may actually be better, but how could small company as that deliver?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          No arguments there. Just making a playful jab at the couple of namefags on here that swear by the SCAR > XCR on weak points like it winning the solicitation or arguing against facts with anecdotes.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            yeah i got ur obvious trolling, but its kinda sad for xcr design aswell when u think about it

  16. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Now this most certainly doesn't read like someone insecure in how their preferred action is perceived.

  17. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    USE FLECHETTES OR DO SOMETHING ORIGINAL ALREADY YOU STUPID MOTHERFUCKERS
    WE'VE BEEN ALTERNATING BETWEEN WHOLE AND HALF POWER RIFLE CARTRIDGES IN PISTON GUNS FOR THE PAST 70 YEARS

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Flechettes are a technological dead end. They so little mass that they deflect and lose trajectory far more than 556 when hitting obstacles such as leaves.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        The point is that you're supposed to shoot a lot of them at once or in quick succession. SPIW was over 70 years ago. It's worth giving it another shot with modern tech instead of going back to glorified BRs, but I don't think there's the motivation or will anymore since WW3 isn't imminent/endlessly making armalite variants pays well.

  18. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Just give them 50 BMGs already and tell the boots to eat shit. That or issue a bunch of American 180s and say the same. All this will they won't they bullshit regarding full powers and intermediates is gay and stupid and we already had the answer with god's caliber, 45 ACP, yet you faglords failed to understand its perfection and insisted on continually reinventing the wheel

  19. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I like it a lot. Its impressively light if the heaviest DMR version weighs only 9lbs, that's not hugely heavier than a loaded M4 and a loss of 5 rounds per mag is much more palatable than 10. FN probably did the smart thing by ignoring the NGSW program and focusing on small programs like that 6.5 SCAR-20 for SOCOM and this thing, meaning they weren't constrained by having to meet the absolute fantasy requirements that the NGSW entries were. This may ultimately end in another M16 situation where the XM5 initially gets mass adopted, but another branch buys this on a small scale and it wins out in the end. Certainly a good idea to scale the receiver around the cartridge and not try make it fit in an AR15 or AR10, since if it does get adopted then AR12 will be a new third standard. Yeah, if this had been one of the NGSW entries I think it would have been met with way more enthusiasm.

  20. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Make new purpose built receiver and magazine woul
    >still choose AR-15/5.56 legacy short variant that limits bullet ogive length
    Are FN dumb? Yes they are dumb.

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate
    who comes up with this nonsense?

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    i guess usa is taking 5.45x39 pill. best small boolet, this may be even better

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The us was first on the “small bullet high velocity” train with 5.56 and the soviets merely followed late, like they always did, with 5.45

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        yeah but 5.45 is better more or less. this is gonna be even better imo

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    overall, i think this rifle will be adopted. u can screencap this

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      enjoy your suprlus guys. fn did what russia couldnt do with their fav action, lol

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