I live in ND. We get -40 in winter, 100 in summer.
I thought it would be a smart idea to throw some insulation in my attached garage walls, since I have bedrooms in the loft above.
If you put insulation, then you need to cover it in 3mm poly... No?
This much moisture just like 4 hours later seems... Excessive...
Did I do a dumb?
I dunno know about ND, but here in Michigan they stopped using a vapor barrier. Not sure of the reasoning, but I know we don’t use it anymore on basements. We have similar climates, but more humidity.
>I dunno know about ND, but here in Michigan they stopped using a vapor barrier. Not sure of the reasoning, but I know we don’t use it anymore on basements. We have similar climates, but more humidity.
Same in northwest Illinois. Dunno about humidity relative to elsewhere, but it's killer bad, and we don't use separate vapor barriers, but whatever is built into the paper-backed insulation. Haven't for a while. But you do have to get specific insulation and sheetrock to meet code. It has to have a certain level of fire resistance.
I insulated my garage a few years back, and it's amazing. Unless you add some sort of heater though, know it's still gonna freeze in your garage in the winter,
knowing americans its probably because your gov guys have family members/friends working for some company offering their new insulation solutions.
thats govt all over the world, with varying degrees of frickery
There's likely a vapor barrier on the exterior, so you have trapped moisture in between. You could get away with poking holes in your plastic sheet.
Allright first of all Im gonna call you an idiot and you are gonna fricking accept it and after that Im gonna tell you what you've done wrong and how to fix it.
First of all you're an idiot, That plastic sheeting doesn't have any fricking place inside a building envelope anywhere on the planet, not in Antartica not in Africa not in North fricking Dakota. It a god dammed vapor barrier, now what you need is a vapor moroner. Much like yourself. moroner.
Now a Vapor moroner simply slows down vapor transmission and does not completely stop it. Which is good because you can not stop vapor,
Nope cant stop it, nobody can and frick em if they say otherwise. Every time you're online breathing heavy like a pervert, you're gross heavy breathing that would fog up a bathroom mirror is humidifying the air, same with taking a shower. Blamo you fill your house with vapor. And when its hot and humid outside you got vapor coming at you from the other side of the wall. So now that we've established.
Next post cuz this is getting long and 4 chan is gonna gay up and be like
>post too long
So what the frick is a mother fricking idiot such as yourself supposed to do. Well what an idiot such as yourself would do, would be to have a climate controlled house. Now what does that do? It fricking pulls moisture out of the air. But as previously mentioned you can stop it. You dehumidify your house and guess what? More is fricking coming in through your god dammed wall, the universe is a b***h this way as in it likes equilibrium. So your dehumidifying your house with your air conditioner and also pulling new moisture in through your walls. Then all of a sudden. Fricking BLAMO, that outside moisture comes into contact with a god dammed sheet of fricking plastic. Now guess what? That plastic is cold and the moisture in that air condensates on it. Now here with are with your shitty fricked up situation. Trust me I've seen it before.
So now that you know whats wrong and why its wrong, what the frick is your god dammed idiotic ass self gonna do about? Well I'll tell what your your gonna do about it your gonna pull that fricking plastic off your god damn wall and your gonna throw it away. I hope you got the good stuff too, the thick 6b mil shit so it was expensive and it hurts while you do it. Then you're gonna determine if your fiber glass insulation has a kraft paper facing, the brown shit. Thats the vapor moroner, and if it does have it according to your pictures you fricking installed it backwards. Congratulations now you get to rip all that shit out and flip it around.
If it doesnt have any, this would be known as unfaced and your in luck. You didn't install it backwards you just bought the wrong shit, but god loves idiots, so you get a break. If this is the case you dont have to remove the fiberglass you simply gotta buy so vapor moroning kraft paper, which is basically just any fricking rosin paper. You can use Tar paper too. You could also use a house wrap. It looks like a sheet of plastic but its got millions of tiny holes in it that are smaller than a water molecule but big enough to allow a moisture molecule to pass through, thus they are water proof while not being a vapor barrier, they are still a vapor moroner. Much like you still more moroner.
Would it really matter if it was installed backwards? Either way replace the poly with a moroner and vapor can move through, kraft on the other side or not
oh yeah sure lets just put shit in backwards YOU FRICKING c**t GET THE FRICK OUT OF HERE. Which end of the nail goes in first? doesnt matter. Hey uh maybee we should all drive our cars around backwards! Doesn't matter! Hey im trying to get your mom pregnant which end do I put it in? Doesn't matter!!!
Yes it fricking matter!!! It goes inside, because there is already a god damn house wrap on the outside of your house YOU DUMB homosexual. You want them to be separated so the moisture in the air is in the largest void possible, this helps avoid condensation.
See this I'm okay with. So many people are buttholes on this board without being actually useful. The trick is to be an butthole *and* be useful. I thoroughly enjoyed your posts
The world needs more of you, never stop until all the israelites are neutralized
>smaller than a water molecule but big enough to allow a moisture molecule to pass through
THATS BECAUE ITS ONE TENTH THE SIZE!!!!!! JESUS FRICKING!!!! YOU EVER SEEN A PUDDLE OF WATER FLOATING? HOW BOUT A CLOUD YOU FRICKING moron! THATS BECASUE THEY ARE MADE OF MOISTURE AND THEREFORE LIGHTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IM GONNA MURDER YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what is the moisture made of
MOISTURE IS MADE OF WATER IN A DIFFERENT PHASE OF EXISTANCE!!!!! YOU DUMB SHIT I KNOW WHAT YOUR GETTING AT!!!!!!!!!! ITS FRICKING SMALLER AND LIGHTER!!
how are water and moisture different molecularly?
THE SIZE YOU FRICKING JACKASS,
what does 'molecule' mean to you?
A COMBINATION OF TWO OR MORE ATOMS
GO have a nice day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how does the molecular structure of moisture and water differ?
OH MY GOD IM FRICKING DONE WITH YOU!!!!! GO READ A BOOK!!!!!! ITS THE SAME ITS THE COMBINATION OF ATOMS STRUCTURED DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE OF ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS SUCH AS PRESSURE AND TEMPERATURE!!!!!!!!! IM FRICKIN DONE THATS IT THE FACT IS ITS LIGHTER GO FRICK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but the molecules are the same size. they're only H2O, as liquid or vapor
listen im going to write this calmy because I just genuinely can't believe you could be this stupid.
Lets say that you have 5 gallons of water. and its really heavy it would weigh about 40 lbs, you probably could not make that float. But then lets say you introduce heat to it, like from the sun. It turn to vapor which is a different state of matter, there are 4 solid, liquid, gas and plasma. This third state of matter is comprised of the same atoms in the same combination as well as percentages. The first step of this getting hot and then it turns to vapor. Once the water molecule becomes so excited that it forces the others away from it, it has a chance to escape from the pressure exerted on it by the others, the atoms are now also free to escape from one another but they dont. not yet. they try to but are held together stronger by the bond of electrons than the force of the heat input by the sun. They are able to separate a little but not completely defect to their base elements. that can be done but it requires a more extreme energy input.
So in short things get hot and try to serpeate from each other but they cant
I mean your seriously trying to tell me the water cycle doesn't work.
>have 40 lbs of liquid water
>evaporate it
>suddenly its not 40 lbs anymore
?????
NOT IN THE SAME VOLUME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS LESS DENSE UNLIKE YOU, YOU DENSE MOTHER FRICKER!!! IT IS SPREAD OUTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKING IT SMALLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>increase in volume
>makes it smaller
?????
THE WEIGHT OF THE INDIVIDULE MOLECULE IS SMALLER
the buoyancy of it in atmosphere, is increased because the size of it increases. The weight of it decreases. you can see this by looking at clouds, they fricking float. I know this sounds counterintuitive because Im saying they get smaller but if you really want to get into it they actually lengthen due to the shape of the specific compound in question they have a polar bond which is exemplified by the heat input, they try to get further from one another but they can not because of the lack of EXTREME energy input, they do however manage to separate slightly and due to geometric reasons they become more aligned, they become further apart more in a straight line which gives them a smaller cross sectional area, so in truth they only beomce smaller in one of a possible infinite orientations however due to vapor pressure and air currents they are still able to pass a vapor moroner sort of like how eventually a sift would pass all sand
Why did that anon stop baiting you, your rants are fun. Can you tell me your opinions on ghosts and telepathy?
plastic stops ghosts
I fell asleep
>have molecule consisting of two hydrogens and one oxygen
>have different molecule consisting of two hydrogen and one oxygen
>they don't weigh the same
?????
SAME MASS DIFFERENT WEIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE ON A PLANET PEOPLE WE HAVE AN ATMOSTPHERE!!!!! THINGS FLOAT IT IN!!!! YOU DUMB FRICK!
TAKE A BOAT AND THROW IT IN THE WATER!!!! OOOOOH ITS FRICKING SCIENCE ITS FLOATING HOLY SHIT!!!!! NOW TAKE THAT BOAT AND SMASH IT INTO A LITTLE BRICK. HOLY SHIT ITS NOT FLOATING ANYMORE. SAME AMOUNT OF "BOAT" BUT ITS NO LONGER BOUYANT,
ILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!!
>little bricks
this thread is about a wood framed house, not a brick one. you can clearly see the wood studs in the pictures
>Same mass different weight
It's the same mass, different volume. Mass determines weight.
mass is the same as volume you god damn moronic, your agreeing with him and just sounding like a moron doing it.
>mass is the same as volume
yeah id be frowning if I realized I was a fricking wiener sucking moron too.
"mass" go look it up.
I honest to god can not believe you found a pic so incorrect. Mass is the measure of matter in an object while weight is the effect observed upon that object by gravity.
A elephant will have the same mass and volume on the earth or the moon, it will not weigh the same
an object can be high volume but low mass like a sponge, or low volume but high mass like a black hole.
upon further investigation I see you found this image of a hispanic website that looks like it was designed by a toddler
Hispanic toddlers are not know for their scientific expertise.
Telepathy is when thought molecules are able to leak through the brain's thought moroner. Some leakage is normal, but occasionally you see people with a lot of leakage. We call them psychics. Some people have thought moroners so strong that no thought molecules can get through at all, and that's why are call those people moronic.
How about israelites?
>they do however manage to separate slightly and due to geometric reasons they become more aligned, they become further apart more in a straight line which gives them a smaller cross sectional area
Your rants are great, but this is wrong. H2O's bond angle remains around 105 degrees regardless of temperature. You could argue at EXTREME temperatures, there's a larger oscillation around 105 degrees, but not enough to make a molecule small enough in one plane to fit. The vapor can make it through because the individual molecules are small enough to pass through. The liquid can't make it through because of hydrogen bonds i.e. surface tension.
105? Let me guess you googled an image of a molecule or maybe looke at the one posted above, then like a moron forgot that 180 degrees is a straight line and you thought 90 degrees is a straight line, than you thought that its about 15 degrees from straight so 90 plus 15 is 105.
you're a god dammed idiot.
only gaseous water exist as the individual H2O molecules
liquid water molecule is de-facto infinitely large pseudo-polymer of H2O electrostatically bonded to other H2O molecules
as you heat up the water you are breaking these bonds and H2O molecules start to fly off more and more
that's also why water boils at astronomically high 100°C (without the molecular interaction is should boil at like -80°C) and has the highest volumetric heat capacity of all known compounds
Shit maybe you are the real vapor moroner
Criminally underrated
Density
that is not molecular structure
You need to convert your righteous autismo rage into protecting the planet from israelites
it's worded badly, but liquid water has cohesion forces which keep particles together and make it hard for liquid water to pass through small openings, while gaseous water has negligible cohesion forces and thus is able to pass through openings that stop liquid water
yeah, i got his point. he just no use good word
>that are smaller than a water molecule but big enough to allow a moisture molecule to pass through
You are too talented to be so mean
His advice quality exceeds his rage levels, making him a net plus in the world. That said, yes he is in denial about needing therapy and rage posting is his preferred substitute.
That Anon said nothing mean. Anon was being abrasive, which is different.
>plastic sheeting doesn't have any fricking place inside a building envelope
>It a god dammed vapor barrier
>you can not stop vapor
Make up your mind.
read the whole thread moron! FIgure out in context that what I said was you cant stop it from traveling,
You know what frick this IM done you guys cant understand 10th grade chemistry and you can understand basic paragraphs go ahead and staple plastic into your walls, llokes like it worked out great for OP I hope you have jsut as much luck as him,
GO FRICK YOURSELVES
>walks into thread
>Allright first of all Im gonna call you an idiot and you are gonna fricking accept it and after that Im gonna tell you what you've done wrong and how to fix it.
>proceeds to get trolled for delivering
this entire place, regardless of board, is shit because of this
grow a pair of balls you fricking little b***h
its newbies like you that have ruined this place, you fricking zoomer homosexual
All this is extreme copium, if we could cheaply create completely isolated walls from everything ranging from fire, water, radiation we would do it.
All your moronic rambling is just poorgay talking because you "assumed" from the start you can't block all humidity, thus attempting to block it is le bad because you le suffocate.
Using all of the wall region for air conditioning is copium, if you have perfectly isolated walls you can dedicate special regions to exchange oxygen and keep you alive easily.
Sadly this isn't and won't be actually done because it's unrealistic. But it is not a bad thing, it's only bad if you add another optional factors into it.
Houses will continue being built cheaply, with cartoon walls even thought, and the ancient egypt/greek architects will continue rolling in their grave.
>All your moronic rambling is just poorgay talking because you "assumed" from the start you can't block all humidity, thus attempting to block it is le bad because you le suffocate
You can block humidity quite easily. Its bad because the temperature difference leads to condensation, which leads to mold.
Another poorgay, mold because your structure isnt isolated fully becuause its expensively unrealistic to do so.
These mold, moisture blabla memes need to stop, theyre just confusion words for coping.
Your walls are just leaky, that is all, i'm sorry.
>-10 degrees C outside
>20 degrees C inside
>house perfectly sealed
>dew point 10 degrees C due to showers, people breathing, humidifiers, etc
>moisture can not leave house
>wall temperature around window is below indoor dew point
>water vapor condenses
This is the end result for any house that doesn't have proper ventilation for moisture. Either through drafty walls or forced air.
moron, you make dedicated ventilation. Putting gabrage poorgay walls as an excuse of "vilation" is ultimate cope and you literally backfired from your topic.
>You spent an extra 2000 bucks and got an HRV with a compressor unit
>You add continuous insulation to the outside of the exterior wall to combat thermal bridging
>Your humidity level is now low enough the outside air can't reach the dew point with the added insulation
99% of all moisture issues aren't caused by diffusion anyway, they're caused by air leakage
ROFLROFLROFLROFL
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Vapor barriers are designed to make you weaker allowing little fresh air into the house
Houses need to breathe
That is why I always apply the siding directly onto the studs and nothing else as our grandfathers have
Our grandfather's used bricks not studs
Condensation on the inside implies that warm, humid air is getting through your insulation and hitting cold plastic. Is your garage unheated? Is there tyvek housewrap or tarpaper on the exterior of your sheathing? If not then that might be a problem. The standard for occupied spaces in my area (western Canada) is from exterior to interior: siding, tyvek, sheathing, insulation, vapor barrier, drywall. It might be different for garages, I confess I'm not an expert.
The garage is a completely unconditioned space.
Was the insulation wet when you installed it?
The insulation was dry and the plastic was dry and it's been dry and hot outside.
The house is from 1975. Housewraps came around early 80's
Take the insulation out and just use the plastic.
>tfw no seraph-like poster to descend upon my thread and bring me to DIY Providence
Every thread in this place needs an equivalent to the Knowledgeable Insulation Rageposter. Quality, useful info while being condescending and mean. Truly the perfect PrepHole poster.
The world is a better place thanks to you, sir
>Quality, useful info
As long as he's not teaching chemistry.
now hang on. all those little dots look the same
angry man keeps saying that they're different!!!
thats is probably because its a 12 cent image off the internet made for toddlers and not out from under a microscope out of a lab.
Can you please upload a microscope image of moisture molecules?
>angry man keeps saying that they're different!!!
Angry man is saying they act differently at the scale and application we are concerned with, that is keeping OP's house from rotting from accumulated moisture.
He was right about that too even if he didn’t use the exactly specific language. Anyone who passed high school science class should understand what he was saying. Your deceptive lying smells semitic, are you a pure evil israelite by any chance?
Air's gotta flow, my man. Can't be creating areas of stagnant air in your home. That's bad. That's how you get super bad pockets of mold and fungus and crap like that. You gotta let your house breathe.
You need to install poly. But if you install poly you can't let it get into negative temps. Also make sure you don't have anything air tight outside.
Read, homie, read
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_tension
your garage floor
>has no vapor barrier
>is not insulated
no ceiling sheetrock primed with insulation
>Oxygen is bigger
>Hydrogen is smaller
>Block all oxygen but leave hydrogen to pass through your walls
What a great way to literally have a nice day
There needs to be about a 50mm air gap between the exterior OSB/ply and the rock wool insulation. You need the vapour barrier air gap for sure
>50mm air gap between the exterior OSB/ply and the rock wool insulation
This is the first time I've heard of such a thing. Is it unique to the Great Lakes area? The only time I've heard of air gaps being needed is behind stucco and masonry facades.
This thread gave me cancer.
All caps Reddit guy, please stop posting forever.
SHOW UP ON TIME OR NOT AT AFRICKING ALL!!!!!! YOU ARE 3 GOD DAMN DAYS LATE gayGGGGGGGGGHOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!!!!
Looks like you farted on it until you fainted lol
R22 + 6mil poly. Caulk edges
Simply put the vapour barrier on the outside not the inside
Oh hi fellow buffalo fricker.
Just don't
It's going to trap water and fill your walls with mold.
Also have fun suffocating
Thank you rage anon. I learned something. You also entertained a bit. 28xwg