I'm pretty sure you're just mad because you're too stupid to have actual comebacks. You've probably never been able to get a girl to talk to you because down syndrome literally is radiating off of you. Then you probably make a Facebook status that gets no likes that whines about how girls won't talk to you and that if they talk to you, you know that you could make a connection with them but to be honest, when girls look at you and see your chained wallet, your stack of yugio cards, your fricking Sega tshirt, and your fricking furry / brony tail, that's where your connection stops. You probably need the internet to make friends and you have sonic as your profile picture for everything so people can't see who you are in real life because it's not fricking hard to see that you're lonely and have been picked on your entire life and deep down you're fricking suicidal. This is me telling you that it's okay to feel like you want to die. And in your case, suicide is totally acceptable because there is no one on this earth that would miss you.
So... How did the HIMARS with that CEP of like 1 square meters missed a big floating target?
You moronic motherfricker.
Himars is GPS, they're testing a GPS jammer under combat conditions. Also need to know the offset planned, I assume they're going for 100 yards or whatever, because rocket fuel on a boat is bad.
So, 'missing' is technically true, but could have been 1 meter in.
But if the other shit did contact, I'm willing to bet they're testing countermeasures and proving their ability to use non-gps positional fixes.
Oh, we're remaking this thread? okay >https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2023-04-26/army-himars-marcos-balikatan-exercise-9923537.html >The training was part of Balikatan, an annual joint exercise involving more than 17,000 U.S. and Filipino troops that wraps up Friday. >The training tested troops’ ability to sense a ship and pass targeting information to weapons operated by the U.S. and Philippines, he said. >The training “sets the condition for more fruitful work like this in future,” Mannweiler said.
If you can see the forest through the trees, the story is: >America is actively holding large military exercises with the Philippines >they are training to shoot at boats in the area as a joint force and using American weaponry >along with the unsuccessful HIMARS fire was successful howitzer fire in two calibers and a variety of aircraft, including the F-35B >this is explicitly a foundation to more such training in the future
You can't just strap a radar to a ballistic missile and call it anti-ship. Physics don't work like that.
There's been zero actual proof of a moving ship target being hit by those. Nada. Nil
China's ballistic missiles and glide vehicles do not have terminal guidance and China lacks the technological infrastructure to even begin trying to develop ways to provide these weapons with terminal guidance.
bro we've been able to land spacecraft on other planets for more than half a century, its not new technology anymore
advanced terminal guidance for missiles on the other hand, is
>China's ballistic missiles and glide vehicles do not have terminal guidance
and yet, the US confirms China has hit a moving sea target with their ASBM 3 years ago.
>y-yeah they just calculated the movement and hit it unguided at the right spot!11
So, why couldnt the HIMARS do the same as it has better CEP due to american tech superiority?
>moron chinks display their ignorance once again.
Hypersonic ballistic reentry vehicles and gliders cannot provide internal terminal guidance for moving targets because they create a plasma shealth that blinds radar and optics and china is decades away from having even the beginnings of adequate OS and SIS to even start considering starting work on the problem of how to penetrate the plasma sheath to provide communicate external guidance to their hypersonics.
China cannot guide a hypersonic missile to a moving target, however what they can do is run a target along a pre-set path and and then feed the intercept coordinates into the vehicle before launch. Doing this is of course not actually very useful or impressive, but sure looks great as a propaganda bit, especially for US defense contractors looking to get more funding to come up with non-existant opfor wunderwaffen.
lmao you dont even know your own bullshit here.
none of the hypersonic missiles or ASBM are even near the speeds needed for a plasma blackout.
And even then, there are methods nowadays.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>none of the hypersonic missiles or ASBM are even near the speeds needed for a plasma blackout.
The plasma sheath forms at Mach 5 and the minimum speed claimed by china for the DF17 is mach 5 (up to mach 10), ergo. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>And even then, there are methods nowadays.
Name some chang, I'll wait. lol, lmao.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>The plasma sheath forms at Mach 5
lmao no
X-51 had a speed of nearly Mach 6 and experienced no blackout.
And space shuttle only has the blackout during their descent at Mach 23.
And this plasma formation does not apply evenly for all shapes. Conical shapes like missile RVs have a higher treshold than the reentry capsules of space craft.
1 year ago
Anonymous
And additionally, "blackout" is not blackout. You have different frequencies where blackouts happen depending on temperature of the plasma.
1 year ago
Anonymous
This is also the foundation of the Chinese design for using the plasma sheath as an antennae, since it has resonance by itself.
Basically, the entire body becomes an antennae.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>nearly Mach 6
Incorrect. The top speed reached by the X-51 was mach 5.1
>experienced no blackout
Incorrect, it did.
>Conical shapes like missile RVs have a higher treshold
Irrelevant given that existing designs still generate the sheath.
This is also the foundation of the Chinese design for using the plasma sheath as an antennae, since it has resonance by itself.
Basically, the entire body becomes an antennae.
You don't understand what that graph actually means. More so, as I previously mentioned China is decades away from having adequate OS and SIS to even think about creating a TDSS for their missiles.
This is also the foundation of the Chinese design for using the plasma sheath as an antennae, since it has resonance by itself.
Basically, the entire body becomes an antennae.
Yes, this is definitely a practical theory with no issues and has useful military applications. Again, lol, lmao.
1 year ago
Anonymous
> No -- I don't think they slow down in the lower atmosphere.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's what all they do currently but they can't do it on a very low part that a typical subsonic cruise missile flies at.. LRASM can get much much closer to the sea.
And also, then, it's vulnerable to missiles like ESSM, SM-6 etc since they can easily hit supersonic targets. I mean, the latter have been tested against hypersonic targets recently and they will have dedicated variants for the more harder targets. GPI is also in the works which will lessen the threats more.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>That's what all they do currently but they can't do it on a very low part that a typical subsonic cruise missile flies at.. LRASM can get much much closer to the sea. >And also, then, it's vulnerable to missiles like ESSM, SM-6 etc since they can easily hit supersonic targets. I mean, the latter have been tested against hypersonic targets recently and they will have dedicated variants for the more harder targets. GPI is also in the works which will lessen the threats more.
A chink hypersonic bouncer isnt a sea skimmer, it will move towards the ship at high altitude and mach 10, then dive down in a 90 degree attack from 100 000 feet. By flying in a spiral (like a rolling airframe missile does) and ejecting decoy targets (the russian iskander already does this) the missile will soak up multiple defending missiles. This means that even if every hypersonic in a chink salvo is shot down, the chinks will achieve a soft kill because the defenders will run out of surface to air missiles long before the chinks runs out of ASBMs. That means that the CBG has to go back to Guam to rearm, but Guam will be under missile bombardment from the chink mainland, with the same problem there. So in worst case, a CBG may have to retreat all the way to Hawaii for rearming.
Resupply the CBG with lone replenishment vessels or rotating out single DDGs is very dangerous because sending a DDG with a depleted magazine back home for reloading means that this vessel can be overwhelmed by an ASBM salvo and sunk. Sending a replenishment cargo vessel is even worse, it cannot defend itself as all. So the CBG will likely have to go as one unit to reload.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>plasma sheath forms at Mach 5
That doesn't mean terminal guidance is completely blocked unless you have a source to back that up.
I've done research on comms blackout and every PDF I've read is very complex, sheaths form predicated on a variety of factors and body type and altitude are very important too. You realistically cannot determine at what speed comms blackout occurs without access to classified data on the reentry vehicles size, body shape, nose shape etc. I'll concede you could reasonably assume a terminal x-band guidance system to operate between 8-12 GHz however.
A real world example is the space shuttle experiencing comms blackout like the other anon mentioned, see pic rel. Obviously the graph isn't extremely precise but total blackout appears to end around 3.75 km/s at 180,000ish ft, that's Mach 11. Even if you're generous and say it's 3.25 km/s that's still Mach 9.5.
Seriously I'm not trying to be a dick and say you're dumb so if you got sources please dump them I'd love to learn, it's just everything I've read seems to point towards it's a problem but doesn't ever put exact speeds or they say that it's more an issue for spacecraft and ballistic missiles/HGVs don't suffer much from it because any blackout doesn't last long enough to matter.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The amount of plasma that forms is heavily dependent on the nose shape of the vehicle. A typical reentry vehicle has a blunt nose that traps air in front of it, using this air as a friction buffer against incoming air. This greatly reduces ablative cooling requirement of the nose and also helps air brake when you are doing mach 30 at 300 000 feet. A chink hypersonic has a long thin needle nose that doesnt trap air. This type of nose gets heated instead, but since it goes at one third the speed of a shuttle, thats manageable. So no, the ignorant mutt that insists that the chink missiles cant be guided is just muttbabbling, and you are correct.
>still thinking muh blackout is real >decades after the Pershing II
1 year ago
Anonymous
yeah It's pure cope. The easiest way to dismiss the capabilities of shit like the DF-21 or other boost glide weapons is just saying comms blackout prevents terminal guidance. Comms blackout is very real but happens at speeds and temperatures that HGVs and MARVs won't be hitting during terminal descent. See pic related. They have key issues with materials and heating, and the temperatures they expect HGVs to fly in still leave literally all frequencies open according to this
And additionally, "blackout" is not blackout. You have different frequencies where blackouts happen depending on temperature of the plasma.
(though there might be some degradation). It's sad too because it means they can still be jammed. In fact optical guidance of high speed weapons is possible but yet to be pulled off operationally. https://secwww.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/Content/techdigest/pdf/V08-N04/08-04-Tropf.pdf
tl;dr morons that know nothing about how the weapons work screech and bait.
Because HIMARS isn't a ASBM, you fricking moron. Its a GPS guided artillery missile for stationary targets. It's like saying "why can't you use S-300s for anti-tank? They are missiles with longer range than ATGMs and have explosives".
They probably did. You act as if water isn't constantly in motion. It's what makes naval combat as unpredictable as it is and why you need seekers on missiles to adjust on the fly to ensure hits on vessels.
HiMars arent ASHM anyway. They are used primarily for stationary targets, which no naval vessel is, such as supply dumps as we have seen in Ukraine. I'm sure they could make a ASHM that launches from the same systems but I doubt they had one for the event.
Do you know how you know that the US has the greatest military in the world? Hint: the fact that they conduct training exercises where they can and often do fail spectacularly and publicly is part of it
A ragged orphan extends a roughly hewn wooden bowl in shaking hands before timidly pleading, "Please sir, may I have some more?"
The stern face of the orphanage's proprietor glares down at him, a huge hairy mole protruding from the left side of his nose and barks, "SIT DOWN MR. RAYTHEON! YOU'VE HAD TWO TRILLION ALREADY!"
the failure could also be part of a deception operation
or to boost the partner nations morale if they think their smaller limited capabilities bested the mighty yankees
The failure is there by design, we design our wargames to test our limits and find weaknesses. A wargame where we “win” is a failure. We want to have it so difficult that we cant win, so we can develop strategies that will work when we encounter that scenario for real. Wargames are for learning.
On the other hand, the chinks design theres for propaganda purposes where grorious peoples army defeats the enemy in spectacular fashion. Nothing is learned. Failure in wargame = general sent to slave camp for making china not look stronk.
>make thread in bad faith >it gets deleted >remake same thread in bad faith with a slighty less aggressive notion
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/57979514/#57979514
Armatard sucks donkey dicks.
>‘A private unregistered single aircraft in the middle of the South China Sea’ is how the commentator on the livestream described the ‘interloper’ that paused the Balikatan HIMAR live fire drills.
I doubt it, giving a rival free data on your anti missile defences would be really silly. It's far more likely that missiles designed to hit predetermined GPS coordinates aren't great against moving targets.
From what I've understood the Pinoys want to buy the HIMARS and other stuff in exchange for all of these temporary bases because they can't afford them otherwise.
Also the burgers are parading their F-35B all over the Philippines, if they weren't dirtpoor and uber corrupt they'd have a small fleet by now.
they probably did this whole thing to see if it was a viable tactic. But no burgers do not use rocket artillery to attack ships. They have a giant navy, planes, and even the marines have AShMs for that now.
I doubt America is low IQ to even consider this, I'm guessing Pinoys want to see if the HIMARS can pull double duty because they're low IQ and dirtpoor.
Surprised to not see a HIMARS with Harpoons and NSMs.
So in real battle situation, when PLA ships will also be moving and also defending themselves with missiles and CIWS, how many missiles would Americans have to waste on a single target?
Also, i understand where HIMARS is hiding from Russian in Ukraine - Ukraine is big, but if HIMARS is on the island where there are not many roads, and not many forests. Where would it hide?
>to waste on a single target?
Considering HIMARS is GPS guided, it's only use against shipping is, at best, very stationary targets in ports. Harpoon, NASM, TASM, etc are much more effective since they have an actual terminal guidance system that can detect targets independently.
>how many missiles would Americans have to waste on a single target?
Depends on the missile
you will note that the artillery rounds and airstrikes did not miss, and that even the HIMARS rounds hit their targeted co-ordinates, those coordinates just didn't contain the ship
As I understand it American anti-LCS strategy is to saturate the defence systems with dozens or even hundreds of simultaneous threats all approaching at different speeds and from different directions
Taiwan is not some tiny little rock either. It's half as big as Scotland, or a little bigger than Maryland depending on which is a better comparison for you.
Its size can be negated by destroying a few bridges. Literally, imagine you have a Taiwanese tank division located in the North and you need to deploy them South because there are reports that PRC started landing there. PRC can destroy a few bridges and that tank division will never see combat. It will be stuck in the North, not doing anything.
After achieving air superiority over Taiwan, PRC can crowd control like that - by insulating different parts of Taiwan into clusters.
It can just go where the river is thinner cherrypickerkun, or use one of their many tunnels, or ferries or boats
1 year ago
Anonymous
Its not impossible, but it will take time. I imagine a giant collumn of vehicles rushing at speed to the bridge, finding out its gone. Then they have to reverse, change course, shouting in the radio, finding a better place to cross, organising new route, not sure if its available or not. What if they are lead into an ambush? What if PRC specifically wants them to use one narrow crossing and then trap them like Ukraine did with the Russians?
Its going to be very sloooooow response time for Taiwanese millitary, very limited maneuver space.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Damn the incredibly fortified country whos entire national identity revolves around resisting china must never have thought of that. I'm sure they'll immediately group together in large clumps and try to use major obvious military targets to get around immediately.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I imagine a giant column of vehicles rushing at speed to the bridge, finding out its gone
Why the everloving frick would an armoured column rush a fricking bridge without scouting it first?
If this is the quality of Chinese operational thinking then the Taiwanese don't have anything to worry about
>using artillery as good ole naval batteries in 2023
holy frick
i feel so bad for the marines posted in there
they're on a glorified pr stunt event with a military that has no/shit gear and thinks naval warfare is still in the 19th century
how do marines even cope with their thirdie counterparts
only high ranking officers want this because they score brownie points
>using HIMARS to hit ships >when Marines have pic related >when Marines have the F-35B >when the Chairforce have F-16s, F-15s >when the Navy has Super Hornets
This looks like Lockmart is heavily shilling this to a country who couldn't afford it even with ally discounts.
Target was an old US WW2 ship that was passed down to the Philippines post-WW2. It was still in active service as of 2020. According to Philippine sources these are what launched shit:
>HIMARS
fired once, then unleashed all five salvos, all missed >F-16
Dropped a Paveway II at the stern, titled the ship >F-35B
Dropped a Paveway II at dead center, sunk the ship >AC-130U
didn't get to fire anything but was airborne
>ATMOS (Israeli 155mm howitzer on a truck)
30 rounds, only half hit their targets >AH-1
Shot Hydra rockets, did piss damage >T129 ATAK
Fired Hydras and their 20mm gun, did minimal damage >FA-50
Dropped a Maverick, did minimal damage >Super Tucano
Dropped a Paveway II, hit the bow and only rocked the ship
Why are they even chucking GPS missiles at a ship? Without an active seeker, you're really relying on the ship being at anchor without any wind change.
I get practicing to use what you have, but they did buy a bunch of NSM for this exact reason.
but maybe Americans think that HIMARS is going to hide there, in the mountains of Taiwan.
Dude, there are no roads there and where there are roads. No gas stations. You can't hide and run in the mountains of Taiwan forever... after PRC will start deploying drones that have infrared cameras.
its not going to be two days to Taipei, but its not going to be scenario where Taiwanese HIMARS or mobile harpoon launchers are running around undetected, launching and disappearing into the night, constantly changing location, hiding in the forest, then emerging in the unpredictable location, and then disappearing into the folliage of the forest like elves in LoTR, just to again emerge on the other side of the island and sting! from another shore.
Once the bridges are gone, the mobility of any anti-ship or anti-air assets in the area will be severely limited. So if they launch at something, the get detected - and they not getting away to replenish their ammo in haste. They have very limited ammount of roads to use, to get out. Its like a police chase shit at this point, lol, when you know what highway the suspect is using, he is not getting away if cops are on his tail.
How strategically illiterate are you idiots? Half the shit in this exercise is clearly NOT meant for targeting ships, the point was clearly "if we HAD to, COULD we use these to attack ships? Lets see what fails and what doesn't." because to a country that actually cares about progress and not saving face, failing is just as useful as succeeding.
>because to a country that actually cares about progress and not saving face, failing is just as useful as succeeding
This is the secret behind western development that thirdoids and bugmen are literally mentally incapable of fully comprehending let alone actually implementing
Example of dumb rivers that criss-cross the East cost
not all of them
each has from 4 to 7 bridges
Lets continue or thought experiment with Taiwanese tank division going from North to South. They see reports that bridges destroyed everywhere, they could try to get into the mountains, trying to find roundabout ways but not all of them are possible, lots of chokepoints
That's not surprising at all. This is why coastal artillery is its own fricking thing. HIMARS is not a ASHM weapon system. I almost wonder why they attempted it at all. >successful howitzer fire in two calibers
how the flying frick?
>I almost wonder why they attempted it at all.
my guess is that the flip military really wanted the himars and since they're poor they can only afford one weapon system
they thought they can use the himars as an ashm system
america and lockmart didn't care and already knew what will happen but they obliged anyway out of courtesy
the least america could have done is tell them it's a horrible idea and they should have just shilled for harpoons and the naval strike missiles instead, marines literally have them
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.
The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
>America "takes heavy casualties" or "loses" a wargame
That's the point but given that this thread is made every single time it happens you probably already knew that. America loses=bigger budget. America literally loses on purpose in these drills/wargames to scare Congress.
i'm not sure why they want to scare congress into giving more funding
when was the last time congress didn't authorize more than what the pentagon asked for, the end of the cold war?
Because politics. If you don't scare congress every year, you fall down the priority ladder one notch compared to other political factions. One notch is ok, but 3-4 falls in a row and you're suddenly in big trouble.
but congress consistently approves more money than what the pentagon asks for
i could understand the fear mongering if they weren't getting what they're asking
Ameribros.... it's over, our wunderwaffe has failed, we must withdraw all of our military assets from the Asia-Pacific region and accept the new multipolar world, headed by the People's Republic of China.
Maybe the ocean moved the ships out of the way?
You search for (You)'s because your life is uninteresting and filled with nothing
I'm pretty sure you're just mad because you're too stupid to have actual comebacks. You've probably never been able to get a girl to talk to you because down syndrome literally is radiating off of you. Then you probably make a Facebook status that gets no likes that whines about how girls won't talk to you and that if they talk to you, you know that you could make a connection with them but to be honest, when girls look at you and see your chained wallet, your stack of yugio cards, your fricking Sega tshirt, and your fricking furry / brony tail, that's where your connection stops. You probably need the internet to make friends and you have sonic as your profile picture for everything so people can't see who you are in real life because it's not fricking hard to see that you're lonely and have been picked on your entire life and deep down you're fricking suicidal. This is me telling you that it's okay to feel like you want to die. And in your case, suicide is totally acceptable because there is no one on this earth that would miss you.
Stay mad
a-at least t-they were mad while they m-mocked me, right?
>the missile has missed, the west has fell off
>the missileS have missed, the west has fell off
not just one, but an entire salvo
You moronic motherfricker.
Himars is GPS, they're testing a GPS jammer under combat conditions. Also need to know the offset planned, I assume they're going for 100 yards or whatever, because rocket fuel on a boat is bad.
So, 'missing' is technically true, but could have been 1 meter in.
But if the other shit did contact, I'm willing to bet they're testing countermeasures and proving their ability to use non-gps positional fixes.
>the west has fell off
Is that typical?
At sea?
About 5 in a 5.
Oh, we're remaking this thread? okay
>https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2023-04-26/army-himars-marcos-balikatan-exercise-9923537.html
>The training was part of Balikatan, an annual joint exercise involving more than 17,000 U.S. and Filipino troops that wraps up Friday.
>The training tested troops’ ability to sense a ship and pass targeting information to weapons operated by the U.S. and Philippines, he said.
>The training “sets the condition for more fruitful work like this in future,” Mannweiler said.
If you can see the forest through the trees, the story is:
>America is actively holding large military exercises with the Philippines
>they are training to shoot at boats in the area as a joint force and using American weaponry
>along with the unsuccessful HIMARS fire was successful howitzer fire in two calibers and a variety of aircraft, including the F-35B
>this is explicitly a foundation to more such training in the future
Bruh, boats move, the ocean moves. Hypersonic missiles can't hit a moving aircraft carrier
A missile without seeker cant hit it, that is correct.
Yet, the US knows that this does not apply to the ASBM.
You can't just strap a radar to a ballistic missile and call it anti-ship. Physics don't work like that.
There's been zero actual proof of a moving ship target being hit by those. Nada. Nil
China's ballistic missiles and glide vehicles do not have terminal guidance and China lacks the technological infrastructure to even begin trying to develop ways to provide these weapons with terminal guidance.
>China can land rover on Mars
>but they don't have technology to guide a missile here on Earth a few kilometers, because is said so!
bro we've been able to land spacecraft on other planets for more than half a century, its not new technology anymore
advanced terminal guidance for missiles on the other hand, is
>moron chinks display their ignorance once again.
Hypersonic ballistic reentry vehicles and gliders cannot provide internal terminal guidance for moving targets because they create a plasma shealth that blinds radar and optics and china is decades away from having even the beginnings of adequate OS and SIS to even start considering starting work on the problem of how to penetrate the plasma sheath to provide communicate external guidance to their hypersonics.
China cannot guide a hypersonic missile to a moving target, however what they can do is run a target along a pre-set path and and then feed the intercept coordinates into the vehicle before launch. Doing this is of course not actually very useful or impressive, but sure looks great as a propaganda bit, especially for US defense contractors looking to get more funding to come up with non-existant opfor wunderwaffen.
lmao you dont even know your own bullshit here.
none of the hypersonic missiles or ASBM are even near the speeds needed for a plasma blackout.
And even then, there are methods nowadays.
>none of the hypersonic missiles or ASBM are even near the speeds needed for a plasma blackout.
The plasma sheath forms at Mach 5 and the minimum speed claimed by china for the DF17 is mach 5 (up to mach 10), ergo. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>And even then, there are methods nowadays.
Name some chang, I'll wait. lol, lmao.
>The plasma sheath forms at Mach 5
lmao no
X-51 had a speed of nearly Mach 6 and experienced no blackout.
And space shuttle only has the blackout during their descent at Mach 23.
And this plasma formation does not apply evenly for all shapes. Conical shapes like missile RVs have a higher treshold than the reentry capsules of space craft.
And additionally, "blackout" is not blackout. You have different frequencies where blackouts happen depending on temperature of the plasma.
This is also the foundation of the Chinese design for using the plasma sheath as an antennae, since it has resonance by itself.
Basically, the entire body becomes an antennae.
>nearly Mach 6
Incorrect. The top speed reached by the X-51 was mach 5.1
>experienced no blackout
Incorrect, it did.
>Conical shapes like missile RVs have a higher treshold
Irrelevant given that existing designs still generate the sheath.
You don't understand what that graph actually means. More so, as I previously mentioned China is decades away from having adequate OS and SIS to even think about creating a TDSS for their missiles.
Yes, this is definitely a practical theory with no issues and has useful military applications. Again, lol, lmao.
> No -- I don't think they slow down in the lower atmosphere.
That's what all they do currently but they can't do it on a very low part that a typical subsonic cruise missile flies at.. LRASM can get much much closer to the sea.
And also, then, it's vulnerable to missiles like ESSM, SM-6 etc since they can easily hit supersonic targets. I mean, the latter have been tested against hypersonic targets recently and they will have dedicated variants for the more harder targets. GPI is also in the works which will lessen the threats more.
>That's what all they do currently but they can't do it on a very low part that a typical subsonic cruise missile flies at.. LRASM can get much much closer to the sea.
>And also, then, it's vulnerable to missiles like ESSM, SM-6 etc since they can easily hit supersonic targets. I mean, the latter have been tested against hypersonic targets recently and they will have dedicated variants for the more harder targets. GPI is also in the works which will lessen the threats more.
A chink hypersonic bouncer isnt a sea skimmer, it will move towards the ship at high altitude and mach 10, then dive down in a 90 degree attack from 100 000 feet. By flying in a spiral (like a rolling airframe missile does) and ejecting decoy targets (the russian iskander already does this) the missile will soak up multiple defending missiles. This means that even if every hypersonic in a chink salvo is shot down, the chinks will achieve a soft kill because the defenders will run out of surface to air missiles long before the chinks runs out of ASBMs. That means that the CBG has to go back to Guam to rearm, but Guam will be under missile bombardment from the chink mainland, with the same problem there. So in worst case, a CBG may have to retreat all the way to Hawaii for rearming.
Resupply the CBG with lone replenishment vessels or rotating out single DDGs is very dangerous because sending a DDG with a depleted magazine back home for reloading means that this vessel can be overwhelmed by an ASBM salvo and sunk. Sending a replenishment cargo vessel is even worse, it cannot defend itself as all. So the CBG will likely have to go as one unit to reload.
>plasma sheath forms at Mach 5
That doesn't mean terminal guidance is completely blocked unless you have a source to back that up.
I've done research on comms blackout and every PDF I've read is very complex, sheaths form predicated on a variety of factors and body type and altitude are very important too. You realistically cannot determine at what speed comms blackout occurs without access to classified data on the reentry vehicles size, body shape, nose shape etc. I'll concede you could reasonably assume a terminal x-band guidance system to operate between 8-12 GHz however.
A real world example is the space shuttle experiencing comms blackout like the other anon mentioned, see pic rel. Obviously the graph isn't extremely precise but total blackout appears to end around 3.75 km/s at 180,000ish ft, that's Mach 11. Even if you're generous and say it's 3.25 km/s that's still Mach 9.5.
Seriously I'm not trying to be a dick and say you're dumb so if you got sources please dump them I'd love to learn, it's just everything I've read seems to point towards it's a problem but doesn't ever put exact speeds or they say that it's more an issue for spacecraft and ballistic missiles/HGVs don't suffer much from it because any blackout doesn't last long enough to matter.
The amount of plasma that forms is heavily dependent on the nose shape of the vehicle. A typical reentry vehicle has a blunt nose that traps air in front of it, using this air as a friction buffer against incoming air. This greatly reduces ablative cooling requirement of the nose and also helps air brake when you are doing mach 30 at 300 000 feet. A chink hypersonic has a long thin needle nose that doesnt trap air. This type of nose gets heated instead, but since it goes at one third the speed of a shuttle, thats manageable. So no, the ignorant mutt that insists that the chink missiles cant be guided is just muttbabbling, and you are correct.
> Bibble babble
Even if. What happens to ships in port or otherwise not moving?
> They get sun--- hey wait a minute.
>still thinking muh blackout is real
>decades after the Pershing II
yeah It's pure cope. The easiest way to dismiss the capabilities of shit like the DF-21 or other boost glide weapons is just saying comms blackout prevents terminal guidance. Comms blackout is very real but happens at speeds and temperatures that HGVs and MARVs won't be hitting during terminal descent. See pic related. They have key issues with materials and heating, and the temperatures they expect HGVs to fly in still leave literally all frequencies open according to this
(though there might be some degradation). It's sad too because it means they can still be jammed. In fact optical guidance of high speed weapons is possible but yet to be pulled off operationally. https://secwww.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/Content/techdigest/pdf/V08-N04/08-04-Tropf.pdf
tl;dr morons that know nothing about how the weapons work screech and bait.
>China can land rover on Mars
It died btw lmao
it was expected to have a life expectancy of 3 months. it managed to stay operable for almost 2 years, which is not bad for their first ever rover.
next time, they would use an isotope based stirling engine.
and yet, the US confirms China has hit a moving sea target with their ASBM 3 years ago.
>y-yeah they just calculated the movement and hit it unguided at the right spot!11
So, why couldnt the HIMARS do the same as it has better CEP due to american tech superiority?
Because HIMARS isn't a ASBM, you fricking moron. Its a GPS guided artillery missile for stationary targets. It's like saying "why can't you use S-300s for anti-tank? They are missiles with longer range than ATGMs and have explosives".
>China's ballistic missiles and glide vehicles do not have terminal guidance
Isn't the entire point of training to find deficiencies and improve on them in the next round of training?
> China, we kinda suck right now. Can you wait to invade until we've had some time to improve?
>as opposed to being 'good' in scripted exercises and sucking when shit goes down. See: Russia.
I have little doubt the salvo landed within a meter of their target coordinate
yeah but why didn't they pick the right coordinates?
The boat moved
>yeah but why didn't they pick the right coordinates?
Look at the people in our military then ask if they can do math.
They probably did. You act as if water isn't constantly in motion. It's what makes naval combat as unpredictable as it is and why you need seekers on missiles to adjust on the fly to ensure hits on vessels.
HiMars arent ASHM anyway. They are used primarily for stationary targets, which no naval vessel is, such as supply dumps as we have seen in Ukraine. I'm sure they could make a ASHM that launches from the same systems but I doubt they had one for the event.
Do you know how you know that the US has the greatest military in the world? Hint: the fact that they conduct training exercises where they can and often do fail spectacularly and publicly is part of it
A ragged orphan extends a roughly hewn wooden bowl in shaking hands before timidly pleading, "Please sir, may I have some more?"
The stern face of the orphanage's proprietor glares down at him, a huge hairy mole protruding from the left side of his nose and barks, "SIT DOWN MR. RAYTHEON! YOU'VE HAD TWO TRILLION ALREADY!"
the failure could also be part of a deception operation
or to boost the partner nations morale if they think their smaller limited capabilities bested the mighty yankees
The failure is there by design, we design our wargames to test our limits and find weaknesses. A wargame where we “win” is a failure. We want to have it so difficult that we cant win, so we can develop strategies that will work when we encounter that scenario for real. Wargames are for learning.
On the other hand, the chinks design theres for propaganda purposes where grorious peoples army defeats the enemy in spectacular fashion. Nothing is learned. Failure in wargame = general sent to slave camp for making china not look stronk.
>make thread in bad faith
>it gets deleted
>remake same thread in bad faith with a slighty less aggressive notion
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/57979514/#57979514
Armatard sucks donkey dicks.
>‘A private unregistered single aircraft in the middle of the South China Sea’ is how the commentator on the livestream described the ‘interloper’ that paused the Balikatan HIMAR live fire drills.
CHINESE
E W A R
W
A
R
I doubt it, giving a rival free data on your anti missile defences would be really silly. It's far more likely that missiles designed to hit predetermined GPS coordinates aren't great against moving targets.
It's hiMARS, not hiVENUS
Do burgers use the HIMARS to hit sea targets?
From what I've understood the Pinoys want to buy the HIMARS and other stuff in exchange for all of these temporary bases because they can't afford them otherwise.
Also the burgers are parading their F-35B all over the Philippines, if they weren't dirtpoor and uber corrupt they'd have a small fleet by now.
they probably did this whole thing to see if it was a viable tactic. But no burgers do not use rocket artillery to attack ships. They have a giant navy, planes, and even the marines have AShMs for that now.
I doubt America is low IQ to even consider this, I'm guessing Pinoys want to see if the HIMARS can pull double duty because they're low IQ and dirtpoor.
Surprised to not see a HIMARS with Harpoons and NSMs.
I like how it's news when western weapons miss, but Russia blowing up belgorod on accident is totally no big deal.
>how did something missED?
Indian detected
So in real battle situation, when PLA ships will also be moving and also defending themselves with missiles and CIWS, how many missiles would Americans have to waste on a single target?
Also, i understand where HIMARS is hiding from Russian in Ukraine - Ukraine is big, but if HIMARS is on the island where there are not many roads, and not many forests. Where would it hide?
>to waste on a single target?
Considering HIMARS is GPS guided, it's only use against shipping is, at best, very stationary targets in ports. Harpoon, NASM, TASM, etc are much more effective since they have an actual terminal guidance system that can detect targets independently.
>how many missiles would Americans have to waste on a single target?
Depends on the missile
you will note that the artillery rounds and airstrikes did not miss, and that even the HIMARS rounds hit their targeted co-ordinates, those coordinates just didn't contain the ship
As I understand it American anti-LCS strategy is to saturate the defence systems with dozens or even hundreds of simultaneous threats all approaching at different speeds and from different directions
Taiwan is not some tiny little rock either. It's half as big as Scotland, or a little bigger than Maryland depending on which is a better comparison for you.
Its size can be negated by destroying a few bridges. Literally, imagine you have a Taiwanese tank division located in the North and you need to deploy them South because there are reports that PRC started landing there. PRC can destroy a few bridges and that tank division will never see combat. It will be stuck in the North, not doing anything.
After achieving air superiority over Taiwan, PRC can crowd control like that - by insulating different parts of Taiwan into clusters.
>amphibious vehicles and bridgelayers dont exist
>in their own fricking country
I said Tank Division. Can all Taiwanese tanks swim?
Can bridge layer reach around this type of river? I just use simple refferences from Google Maps here.
It can just go where the river is thinner cherrypickerkun, or use one of their many tunnels, or ferries or boats
Its not impossible, but it will take time. I imagine a giant collumn of vehicles rushing at speed to the bridge, finding out its gone. Then they have to reverse, change course, shouting in the radio, finding a better place to cross, organising new route, not sure if its available or not. What if they are lead into an ambush? What if PRC specifically wants them to use one narrow crossing and then trap them like Ukraine did with the Russians?
Its going to be very sloooooow response time for Taiwanese millitary, very limited maneuver space.
Damn the incredibly fortified country whos entire national identity revolves around resisting china must never have thought of that. I'm sure they'll immediately group together in large clumps and try to use major obvious military targets to get around immediately.
>I imagine a giant column of vehicles rushing at speed to the bridge, finding out its gone
Why the everloving frick would an armoured column rush a fricking bridge without scouting it first?
If this is the quality of Chinese operational thinking then the Taiwanese don't have anything to worry about
that's a nice sweater
>using artillery as good ole naval batteries in 2023
holy frick
i feel so bad for the marines posted in there
they're on a glorified pr stunt event with a military that has no/shit gear and thinks naval warfare is still in the 19th century
how do marines even cope with their thirdie counterparts
only high ranking officers want this because they score brownie points
>using HIMARS to hit ships
>when Marines have pic related
>when Marines have the F-35B
>when the Chairforce have F-16s, F-15s
>when the Navy has Super Hornets
This looks like Lockmart is heavily shilling this to a country who couldn't afford it even with ally discounts.
>two subsonic missiles
Is this a joke?
Ask the Moskva
I feel like that gets stuck in mud and sand really easily.
in actual invasion scenario himars will be reserved to hit possible landing sites, no?
dont forget static logistical elements, like launching sites, bridges and floating drydocks
Target was an old US WW2 ship that was passed down to the Philippines post-WW2. It was still in active service as of 2020. According to Philippine sources these are what launched shit:
>HIMARS
fired once, then unleashed all five salvos, all missed
>F-16
Dropped a Paveway II at the stern, titled the ship
>F-35B
Dropped a Paveway II at dead center, sunk the ship
>AC-130U
didn't get to fire anything but was airborne
>ATMOS (Israeli 155mm howitzer on a truck)
30 rounds, only half hit their targets
>AH-1
Shot Hydra rockets, did piss damage
>T129 ATAK
Fired Hydras and their 20mm gun, did minimal damage
>FA-50
Dropped a Maverick, did minimal damage
>Super Tucano
Dropped a Paveway II, hit the bow and only rocked the ship
>an old US WW2 ship that was passed down to the Philippines post-WW2.
wtf? i bet Philippine navy lost half of its battle potential by sacrificing this asset
Please understand we need museums.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museum_ships_of_the_United_States_military
Why are they even chucking GPS missiles at a ship? Without an active seeker, you're really relying on the ship being at anchor without any wind change.
I get practicing to use what you have, but they did buy a bunch of NSM for this exact reason.
but maybe Americans think that HIMARS is going to hide there, in the mountains of Taiwan.
Dude, there are no roads there and where there are roads. No gas stations. You can't hide and run in the mountains of Taiwan forever... after PRC will start deploying drones that have infrared cameras.
two days to Taipei?
its not going to be two days to Taipei, but its not going to be scenario where Taiwanese HIMARS or mobile harpoon launchers are running around undetected, launching and disappearing into the night, constantly changing location, hiding in the forest, then emerging in the unpredictable location, and then disappearing into the folliage of the forest like elves in LoTR, just to again emerge on the other side of the island and sting! from another shore.
Once the bridges are gone, the mobility of any anti-ship or anti-air assets in the area will be severely limited. So if they launch at something, the get detected - and they not getting away to replenish their ammo in haste. They have very limited ammount of roads to use, to get out. Its like a police chase shit at this point, lol, when you know what highway the suspect is using, he is not getting away if cops are on his tail.
How strategically illiterate are you idiots? Half the shit in this exercise is clearly NOT meant for targeting ships, the point was clearly "if we HAD to, COULD we use these to attack ships? Lets see what fails and what doesn't." because to a country that actually cares about progress and not saving face, failing is just as useful as succeeding.
>because to a country that actually cares about progress and not saving face, failing is just as useful as succeeding
This is the secret behind western development that thirdoids and bugmen are literally mentally incapable of fully comprehending let alone actually implementing
Example of dumb rivers that criss-cross the East cost
not all of them
each has from 4 to 7 bridges
Lets continue or thought experiment with Taiwanese tank division going from North to South. They see reports that bridges destroyed everywhere, they could try to get into the mountains, trying to find roundabout ways but not all of them are possible, lots of chokepoints
writing a misleading headline should be a felony.
This was obviously Lockmart shilling the HIMARS to the Philippines, they thought that it can hit ships but it can't.
Should have shilled the Harpoon instead.
What is she doing with that thing? It's kind of big.
looks like an anime girl giving a boob hug to my benis
New waifu
lamo git gud
Im gonna guess that the target was moving?
Just a guess
No matter how accurate a rocket is, it's hard to hit a moving target with a seeker
American tactics and/or equipment fail in training and simulations.
Americans amend tactics and upgrade equipment.
Russian tactics and weapons always perform flawlessly in training and exercises.
Russian weapons and fail during combat.
Sad. Many such cases.
That's not surprising at all. This is why coastal artillery is its own fricking thing. HIMARS is not a ASHM weapon system. I almost wonder why they attempted it at all.
>successful howitzer fire in two calibers
how the flying frick?
>I almost wonder why they attempted it at all.
my guess is that the flip military really wanted the himars and since they're poor they can only afford one weapon system
they thought they can use the himars as an ashm system
america and lockmart didn't care and already knew what will happen but they obliged anyway out of courtesy
the least america could have done is tell them it's a horrible idea and they should have just shilled for harpoons and the naval strike missiles instead, marines literally have them
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the missile is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the missile must also know where it was.
The missile guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
America even used one Apache lmao.
Hellfire naval version when?
What does "naval version"? even mean? It's IR.
We're replacing hellfires with JAGM anyways.
>Russian missiles actually hitting their targets is news
>American missiles missing for once is news
Lmao
>America "takes heavy casualties" or "loses" a wargame
That's the point but given that this thread is made every single time it happens you probably already knew that. America loses=bigger budget. America literally loses on purpose in these drills/wargames to scare Congress.
i'm not sure why they want to scare congress into giving more funding
when was the last time congress didn't authorize more than what the pentagon asked for, the end of the cold war?
Because politics. If you don't scare congress every year, you fall down the priority ladder one notch compared to other political factions. One notch is ok, but 3-4 falls in a row and you're suddenly in big trouble.
but congress consistently approves more money than what the pentagon asks for
i could understand the fear mongering if they weren't getting what they're asking
c-c-cute
Ameribros.... it's over, our wunderwaffe has failed, we must withdraw all of our military assets from the Asia-Pacific region and accept the new multipolar world, headed by the People's Republic of China.
>training scenario fails
wtf i hate america now
hopefully next year they'd test the Brahmos and C-star missiles
>can't do what our technology used to in the 50s
>Threads fill with copium as a result
Believe it or not, ground-to-ground and ground-to-ship missiles are two different things
all 6 himars missiles landed exactly where it was supposed to land. it's just the boat was drifting and was not in the correct location.
>perform drill to identify problems and get better at what you're trying to do
>identify problem you didn't know about before
10/10, worked as intended, would drill again