I got a plumbing job recently and I have grown to hate the people who run this company. I'm making this thread to see if the way this company operates is normal or if it is as fricked up as I think it is.
How it works:
>customer calls to get estimate on job
>scheduler refuses to give a number but offers to send a technician out to give an estimate
>I go to their house and take water pressure, water hardness, test gas leaks, then ask them what they want me to look at
>I'm supposed to call my manager on speaker so he can act shocked at the readings and scare the customer into having a higher level guy come out to sell them some major installation
>Afterwards take a look at what they called for in the first place
>give them an estimate that is about 2-3x above market value
>either they buy it and I do the work or I call the "manager" so he can work them over and try to make a sale
This feels slimey as frick and the only thing keeping me around is the prospect of making almost double what I could otherwise. These people are so fake it is hard to even humor them and the other technicians are either young guys or borderline morons who I, as a part time handyman for a year, can leave in the dust. I don't want to do this shit, but I don't have better prospects.
Quit, unless you are making boatloads where it's worth it to sell your soul and be a scumbag.
Sooner is better to quit, my guess would be decent reputable shops in your area know about your company and wouldn't want to hire you if you claimed you had experience there.
Don’t do it, end of the day it’s your face and name on the scam and your faceless coward boss getting the take
post your nose
Op should post he bosses nose, I think we can guess who's behind this
Unless the manager straight up lies about the readings you report and claims that some totally unnecessary work *must* be done, nothing you describe is "unethical".
It may be annoying to customers and unpleasant to be involved in, but the company can be persistant in trying to upsell jobs and charge a premium price, and potential customers can reject all of it if they feel it's too expensive or prefer a softer sell
Not quoting prices over the phone is standard operating procedure for most building trades because even if you make it abundantly clear that such a sight unseen ballpark estimate might be low and need adjustment upwards, people will insist that you are a scammer when it happens and slander you.
This is also very likely why this company does a thorough assessment of the property and systems beforehand as well, so if there's any condition issues that might affect the rest of the job they can address them at the time of the bid instead of halfway through the job and then be accused of trying to pad the bill.
Ive seen this happen a lot with on demand water heaters where people get a price for the unit and basic installation and then find out that the gas supply plumbing is inadequate...it should be fairly easy to determine up front but what appears to be a proper sized gas line might be restricted somewhere that no one could ever know about without testing the pressure or doing an inch by inch inspection of the entire service that isn't part of the bid process. But when that scenario happens and suddenly that needs extra work, the contractor is expected to eat the difference because he gave an estimate that didn't cover it.
Scumbag detected
t. Roy Fuchs
I like how you have to use the quotes around ethical like that, yet you still seem to think it somehow is.
>I like how you have to use the quotes around ethical like that, yet you still seem to think it somehow is.
I love how you make a 100% false claim-
>"quotes around ethical"
-when the word quoted was the exact opposite...
and that you dishonestly ignore the fact that the word in question was a *direct quote*, meaning that the use of quotation marks was perfectly legitimate and carried no meaning other than to indicate that it was not the author's commentary, but a quotation.
Hence the term quotation marks, you mendacious moron.
You got me, typo and bad proofreading. You win. Should've said "unethical." His period should've been inside the quotes though, we'll say you mostly win. As to it being a direct quote, that's ambiguous at best, and to truly say that was the intent then he should've quoted more than a single word. And it's still not true. What they are doing is unethical, you spinless mongoloid simpleton.
I agree with everything you say. That other guy needs to frick off with his pretentious asterisks and SAT words.
kys
ripping off greedy boomers who would replace you with a cheaper mexcrement illegal the second they got the chance is one of the most ethical and based things you can do
tell your boss you'll straight up lie to them as well and put on a huge show but only if he cuts you in a few % of the earnings
Tongue click, kick pvc pipe.
See watchu got there is a broken return on your millenials revenge system, it’s going to be a minimum of $3500 maybe $5500 depending on what kinda gpu I need
Trust me I know whatchu got and it’s a $5500 broken pvc pipe repair
We get 2% of anything we sell, and 2% of anything we do, so effectively 4%. Toilet install is $1200 to give you an idea.
Some of these guys are making a serious amount of money. I'll be making 65-90k while I expected 40. I made 50-60 as a handyman/odd jobs for comparison. I don't really give a shit as long as I'm doing actual work, but this is the only interview I got.
I'm thinking I'll quit/demand a different position. I don't have anything better to do than see what I can do with it until I can find something better.
If it were just upselling, that's fine. But only 1 of these plumbers has a license and the rest are very inexperienced guys who frick up all the time. The guy I followed around for a while is a total moron that couldn't figure out pvc without my help(I have done one(1) pvc job in my life). I can't stand being in front of these people who trust me and seeing them slowly realize that I'm basically a scam artist.
>$1200 to put a shitter on a wax ring
Frick em. Frick normal cattle. Look at how they ruined the world over a cold. They deserve to have nothing.
Quit. You'll make less at first, but you'll not feel like a douchebag perpetrating another 6 gorillion.
I've worked for 4 different contractors and my impression is the trades operate entirely on aggressive salesmanship, excessive call out/diagnosing fees and leveraging sunk cost anxieties, and upcharging out the ass on parts.
So you would say what I described is normal?
So pretty much every service model.
plumbers are literally legally operated scam scheme
in the commieblock i lived few years ago, a shit pipe in the basement got broken
basically, it was a 90 elbow that some moron from the upper floor probably dropped piece of concrete/tile while renovating his shitter and the elbow cracked
being a shit related job no one wanted to diy for for good of everyone so we called a plumber
some Chud in his 20's came with a phone with thermal camera, and started showing me the pipe "look how cold it is, that's because it's full of water, it's clogged, so it's a big job"
told him to get his toy camera and frick out of there before he gets a hot cup of eastern european reality
later that day my father just swapped the fricking elbow, while everyone was out so the chance of getting a turd shower was lower
Plumbing is even simpler than electricity. Its grade school etchasketch shit. Its unbelievable how much those homosexuals get paid.
> Its unbelievable how much those homosexuals get paid.
Plumbers are much like trashmen, they get paid a higher rate for dealing with the smells and filth that no one else wants to touch.
And nobody wants to deal with your shit clogged pipes for free. Yeah it’s a scam paying the same rate for some kid to snap some instalock connections on a glorified garden hose that you would have to pay to get someone to go swimming in a pool of your shit
If something goes wrong with electricity usually a breaker flips, when plumbing fails water can go everywhere.
Also there's like 30 breakers in my house, but only 1 valve for about 80% of my cold water system.
If I need to shut off the water to the basement sink, bathroom 1, bathroom 2, kitchen sink, it's all the same valve.
I can't really tell if this post is agreeing that turd wranglers are idiots or if you're trying to defend them.
OP here with update.
I'm definitely quitting this job but I feel like fricking with them for a while before I do. We have to call our manager/some sales "person" when a customer declines an estimate so they can talk to the customer. We called the guy today and he pretended to hand the phone to somebody else and did a southern accent. These people are worthless scum and I don't feel any responsibility to them. I think I can have some fun with this before I quit, tell them I can come back and do the job for 1/4 the price myself, Tell the customer they are being scammed, mess with management, saying there is a huge leak with water pouring down the stairs when there is maybe a slow drip from a gate valve and watch as they flip out on the customer for not going with our estimate.
Call local news company that covers scams. They love this shit.
record it or send emails to local newspaper
blows my mind morons will hire a contractor without a signed quote and scope of work
if you can't get me the quote on paper then you're likely not worth the money you'll be looking for later
Obviously unethical, but I hate when people complain about not being able to get a ballpark without an inspection. Most companies are no cost/obligation for residential because they have a diesel ass sales dept. but people will be just as quick to call scam if they get an over the phone ballpark then the price ends up being higher when they have some fricked shit to fix.
This is service plumbing. It isn't like the estimates of putting in a toilet, faucet etc. have that much variation. With these guys it will always be either 1200 or 1600. No accomodations change that and the guy putting it in will invariable be sub 90 iq with less than a year of experience or a teenager. It isn't honest work. The only people who ever agree are super old people who don't want to bother their kids.
Yes, so you call them and if it’s an emergency you’re probably agreeing to a trip/after hours charge for like $250 and then they get there and look at it
Just poach from them. I work in heavy machinery and do it all the time. I let them know I can only do so much (some parts have individual serial numbers and im not high enough level to change them in inventory) but I make a good few hundred bucks every now and then.
How do they get their customers? Sounds like they have a good business model. Learn how they work, but most importantly learn how they bring in business. Then start setting up your own company on the side.
Have a few good plumbers you can refer business to, and take a percentage of that. When you are ready, start handing out your card to clients
>ma’am I know this company is kind of expensive, if you decide not to go with them try these guys
>give them your card
>How do they get their customers?
For me it's generally
>"i paid fricking 6k for this repair!!!!!"
>"well you have my number so if it happens again let me know *wink* just call me before you call the office"
>"of course *wink*"
You should start your own company without telling anyone, and continue working for these buttholes. Then let the customers know what's happening and offer to do it yourself for a reasonable price if they keep it secret.
In 6 months you have a customer base.
Then you report bosses/owners for whatever other sketchy stuff they're doing and let them fight the law while you take over the area. It's usually drugs.
I was going to make the suggestion but anon above already did it. What my friend did in a similar situation is what I think the smartest choice, poach. Its luck of the draw on how long you can get away with it before they find out the benefit here is you don't care that they will just hoping it takes them time. You want to use their network and advertising getting you to those job sites, use the methods available to you to let the customer know this is bullshit and you can come back later and fix it right for much less, etc. Keep names and numbers and do it until they fire you and hopefully by then you'll have scalped enough to have a running start on doing your own thing. The hardest part of the biz is attracting the first customers.
> poach
I was the respondanon that said 'Quit.' I am modifying that over to the poach position.
I worked for a Master electrician. He had a customer that referred me to a friend of his to go look at a job. The woman had no money, particularly not for running underground power from her house a few hundred feet to a 30/50 amp split phase hookup (like at any rv/trailer campground). For her elderly mom who was going to live in the trailer semi-independent. It was under one of those open side carports, so well protected enough. Trees & some kind of fence or wall to block wind (was a bit ago so details on that hazy).
She had rickety 30-amp wire (orange romex) strung to an outbuilding garage adjacent, with no support steel wire. I pointed out what was wrony. And I said look, it's one (old woman) your mom: How much power is she going to use? She had LP gas for the stove. Maybe a 1500w space heater?
I said to her daughter, just run a cord w an adapter to the 20 amp outlet inside the outbuilding. CAMCO cord is like <$50, adapter is another $8. If she went with a properly suspended wire from the house, or an underground, I already knew it would be at least a few thousand in parts+labor for buried, and less for a strung wire but anyway, my time was also short.
Nevertheless, the Master was all up in my shit later about getting leads if I did, to pass them off to him. I guess if I thought the guy was straight enough, I would have. But this guy mistreated himself, was in pain and drank. The previous guy I worked for, had gotten the clotshot and didn't do so well. I don't know about the total outcome w him but I got some bad vibes about that.
..
Do you install water softeners?
leave and tell everyone you ever come across how shit they are.
when management is fine with screwing over customers this way you just know they are willing to and probably are screwing you over just as hard.
..
Yeah frick that. I'm not in a position to get some old woman's daughter stressed about a huge bill which, if she really wanted, could be at most, a 30-amp trailer outlet on the house, and an outdoor rated cable and built extension cord for purpose - not just the suspended wire but also proper anchors were needed; it was a really shady hookup to that outbuilding.
Oh, I remember now: I gave her an outdoor 30-amp box, so she could have someone put it on, if she decided. I had gotten it for free, so no biggy.
We need to have not such a greedy attitude. It's a pleasure to work for good people. I get it, tradanons need to put dinner on the table; that's why oddly I follow what's happening with Disclosure, because this is all about energy. Evil bastards want to control it. We shouldn't even have a 'grid', that's a failing of Tesla, and the misguided agenda of psychopaths.
To put it into perspective: If each of you was off-grid with megawatts of power available, that would quickly solve so many issues around gouging customers just to share the talents and expertise/experience you have, and keep your brain and body exercised.
What OP complained about is a function of that dysfunction: the psychopaths we have allowed at the top to control money and energy.
Rope is cheap. And reusable. Act accordingly, as BanglerStar says.
>This feels slimey as frick
Nothing has an intrinsic value, things are worth what you believe. Market value? You are the market, naive customers are the market.
Idiots deserve to be parted from their money so go for it.
Had a similar job, quit.
Took over 50% paycut to work for legitimate company that did quality work.
I quit a week ago. It is a bummer after having bought $1200 worth of tools for the job, but whatever. Thought about asking to be put on install, but I felt like a clown even wearing their uniform. Starting to think they were the only tier of company that would hire me after all the other applications I sent out were ignored. College degree and 5 months of apartment maintenance, not even good enough to work on a construction site lmao.
Join Air Force, enjoy instant career and if you like trades go Civil Engineering. Retire in 20 years while other tradies have decades to go. Work in comfort with killer benefit package and ignore recessions for the rest of your life. Do NOT listen to /k/ and do NOT join the Army or USMC, you need a career not the false promise of adventure during a Hollow Force era.
Money enables freedom. Measure everything with that in mind and remember if you do not have a vested early retirement whatever you are doing is likely a mistake.
DIY let me buy cheap, renovate and still afford housing paid for by BAH and some of BAS. Think like wise old men not silly young men.
You can learn a lot in such a position about what not to do and not to treat people.
You need to contact your local news station and eat these bastards out to them. One day they are going to get popped and you’re not going to be able to tell the grand jury “but I was just taking measurements.”
I've had almost the opposite happen if this makes sense.
>remodeling a bathroom
>building is probably from 1890
>unit on third floor
>circut in bathroom is on a 20a that also feeds one outlet in hallway
>owner wants dedicated line just for bathroom
>the existing circuit is absolutely sufficient
>old pipes are full and go god knows where
>only way to pull a new circuit is by running a pipe along the side of the building and up three stories
>completely unnecessary and a waste of time and money
>boss and contractor say if he wants it we need to do it
>i get in a big argument with my boss about how everyone is wasting their time and money on this
>no one will change their mind
>i do the job angrily
>bathroom has a dedicated 20a circut
>one outlet in the hallway has a dedicated 20a circuit
>boss and contractor say if he wants it we need to do it
You are a moron. Was there anything unsafe about it? Was there anything unethical about it? No, and no. You are in the wrong line of work. Maybe look for work in the social justice arena, where being angry over nothing is highly regarded.
>Maybe look for work in the social justice arena, where being angry over nothing is highly regarded.
Nta but, you mean like a random PrepHole post? Lmao
i don't like wasting my time.
if I got paid to unscrew and screw in the same lightbulb for 8 hours I'd hate it and probably quit.
> i don't like wasting my time.
Aha, posting on Mongolian basket weaving forum
i like spending my time here. its fun and funny.
its not fun or funny or satisfying spending two days of work making something that will give someone the identical situation they're already in without any work.
god i hate working with zoomers like you. there is only one acceptable way of doing a job and thats the proper way, and thats what the customer asked for. you however wanted to do it the lazy way.
doing a bath renovation without doing a full upgrade on cables and plumbing is so godawfull dumb i cant wrap my head around it. not like you can redo that again later on without also tearing up the entire bathroom again. would that feel better for you? probably would since you dont pay for it... so come back when you own your own housing and pay for your own renovations.
Nta but
>dont try to talk customers out useless work where they’re throwing money away
>you want to waste people’s money
lol seething moron
bathroom power should be on a dedicated circuit by code here. an existing bathroom can get away with but a redmodeling must be up to code. you dont do your job the customer has the right to demand all cost aka the bathroom done over again on your cost.
such is life in the professional field.
the reason housing cost isnt because of codes, lol no thats just a matter of doing it properly the first time. it cost money when lazy people take every shortcut they can find and it then has to be redone and then redone even 2 more times.
i understand the code part. but under this circumstance, doing it to code costs so much more and takes so much time and the effective change is hardly anything.
code can mean so many things. not all of them are as practically important as others. on paper they're all equally as important as any other. but in practice absolutely not. strapping a pipe at the right intervals is not as important as sizing your wires properly. even though there's codes for both and an inspector could fail you for either violation.
so im not going to treat evey code violation as a big deal and im experenced enough to know when thats viable option. im here to inform a client of their current situation, and the best safe functional option, and do it for them. im not here to be some code enforcement goon.
and even though having bathroom circuit that shares ONE outlet outside of the bathroom is not to code, its absolutely not a big deal and absolutely not worth the hundreds if not thousands of dollars it took to take that single outlet off the circuit.
do you really not understand how unnecessary it is? sure its more correct but the practical different is near zero. and thats what people are effected by and thats what i care about.
one time we had to replace an entire panel because bathrooms need their own circuit now, and the panel was full. so despite this lady using her bathroom on a shared circuit for probably over a decade with no issue, we had to charge her over a thousand dollars for more work with absolutely no noticeable difference to her or the realistic safety of her unit.
oh but now its up to code so thats better. frick everything. make it up to code. frick costs, frick practicality, frick what you want or need.
that is boomer behavior
boomers always try to upcharge/scam customers, or boomer customers will only pay for the absolute bare minimum, using only mexican labor
they are so cheap it is unreal
most boomer owned houses are rotting pile of shits needing easily $100,000 in deferred neglected maintenance expenses
the suckers who bought across from me have definitely spent more than that repairing everything the boomer b***h seller had neglected for 40 years
>there is only one acceptable way of doing a job and thats the proper way
i have literally never MET a boomer who even pretended to have this attitude
yesterday i was trying to explain to a frickwit boomer that yes, believe it or not, you can drill through steel pipe, but you have to have the correct tool and correct bit
they are so fricking ignorant and so fricking cheap, even though they have had longer to learn useful knowledge than us and all have millions of dollars
Does your manager happens to have a long nose ?
You will have negative equity on your resume if you stay with them and wont get any profit from the scam, all the benefit will go to your ~~*boss*~~
What a boyscout
It's common to not give estimates over the phone, every house is different. The rest is slimey af. There's nothing wrong with making money as a trade but this is too far.
frick cpvc.
Tell the local news and put those buttholes in the poorhouse.