>trench clearing in ukraine
>the ultimate cqb situation where high capacity and low recoil would be ideal
>not a single smg in sight
pistol caliber bros.. i-is it over?
>trench clearing in ukraine. >the ultimate cqb situation where high capacity and low recoil would be ideal
aks74u are way more common than any smg
Even Russian "plates" will stop 9mm or .45, is the best option either side has a lot of.
That is an SMG you tard.
No it's fricking not.
yeah it is lol, it was deployed and used exactly like an SMG was, they are made to be small and spary bullets and they have an effective range of like 50 yards
I think if they had more resources. Throwing smgs into the mix just for trench clearing would complicate things especially when they can just drop grenades from drones.
been ogre since the fifties
I think it's because the trenches are a smaller part of the fighting the hundreds of yards of open country between the trenches clearing makes having a rifle the better choice
If i had to fight thru jungles or urban environments I'd rock a grease gun or something like pic related
>not a single smg in sight
9mm NATO has pretty much the same recoil as 5.56/5.45. may as well get triple the muzzle energy, way better range, better terminal performance and barrier penetration.
It was over since colt commando has been invented.
Too true. The MP5 killer
we need to refer to all SBRs as commandos or shortys. these acronyms are gay
"Choppers" my Black person
>Choppers
Those are AKs.
Literal sex. Will the aesthetic perfection of a carry handle AR ever be topped?
>Will the aesthetic perfection of a carry handle AR ever be topped?
already been done
>Earth tones on everything
I fricking hate this and wish companies would stop
I miss OD green from the factories
already has been
Does she shave her pits?
Yes, algerian girls armpits taste delicious and you can imagine the friction of their shaved parts.
The only algerian I know of is Mistral from Metal Gear Rising. How representative is she of the average algerian woman?
PS:I know the average algerian woman doesn't have twenty arms(this timeline is so fricking gay I swear to God)
Now show how long it is with a can vs the mp5sd.
That's a dumb comparison cause the MP5SD has an integrated suppressed barrel and also 5.56 sucks donkey ass at suppressing in general so it's never the best option when trying to be as quiet as possible.
So we agree that AR gays should stop trying to round hole square peg the ar15 into roles it was never intended to fill? Good, other guns exist for a reason.
I wasn't part of the original argument, but sure. Like how smgs have a role in the hands of police but they're dumb as frick to take to the frontlines of a battlefield where people are already complaining 5.56 doesn't cut through bushes and tree branches enough.
>what is the Honey Badger?
Stoner created the perfect rifle, you can cope and seethe about it all you want
lmao actual moron, I'll let you in on a secret. The Honey Badger is a moronic meme rifle for video games, it is actually a piece of shit and there's a reason you never see them being used by anyone. Q is a shit company that makes terrible products at an absurd price point.
should have said the Sig MCX
I know sig being bad is a big meme but it was selected for both US SOCOM (in 2022) when they were looking for new PDWs and Dutch MARSOF (in 2016) when they indicated they want .300 BO for ship operations
nta, dont own the gun but I looked fairly deep at getting one at some point
the reason it's rare is because it's a civilian spec carbine
by civilian spec I mean it doesn't do well with any kind of fouling, water, it's not resistant to salt water corrosion, dust and sand will jam it up
however if you keep it clean it's apparently buttery smooth, accurate and a very high quality ready-to-go package designed around .300 BO instead of being a conversion (which was a bonus at the time, as not too many .300 BO specific rifles were made)
what it is is a a indoor range or home defense gun, it's not a military firearm and that's fine and that doesn't make it an inherently bad firearm
Yet the Colt 9mm SMG based on the CAR-15 had a pretty good run at the same time. If you couldn't afford an MP5 back then it was probably the next best thing.
I swear, the nomenclature of the AR-15 gun is confusing
B-but muh 20 inch AR. SBR's are le cringe.. Muh b-ballistics..
The big problem with smgs is that they can't penetrate soft body armor. There's an argument over whether or not plates are worth wearing but even the people who say they aren't still say that you'd be a moron not to wear soft armor.
>The big problem with smgs is that they can't penetrate soft body armor.
So use P90's then?
>but muh plates
this is moronic modern plates only cover a part of the chest and thats it, if you get sprayed into you will die. the real reason why it’s preferable to use a rifle over an smg is because of the effective range, even if you clear a trench you have other shit to do after and before that may involve combat at more than 100 meters, you dont get to switch loadouts as necessary like in a video game
Haha Ukraine lost
I am demoralized
2 more weeks
I of demoralized now, Puccia Stronk, must welcome poojeets and chinks to the west to begin war against nogtronjoos.
The assault rifle made SMGs obsolete lol that was the whole point
>smg
These got replaced by carbines which carry the punch of rifles in a more compact space. I'd much rather have an M4 Carbine than some kind of smg firing pistol rounds.
Combat also doesn't occur just in the trench but around it as well.
You couldn't pay me enough to take a pcc into combat as front line infantry. I don't care if we're tasked with standing 3' away from the enemy before shooting them.
I thought Russians don't have body armor?
Its Murviks law, a puccian variation on Murphys law.
If you bring a rifle, the mobik you come across will be wearing no plate carrier. If you do not bring a rifle, the mobik will be wearing a plate carrier (for his 2001 model laptop). This is mostly irrelevant, as the mobik shot himself in his trench before your arrival anyway.
>hurrr what kind of action does an ar-15 pattern rifle have
Underage
A good smg is a carbine
Yeah because literally everyone is wearing body armor
I wanted to see SMGs come back but if trench warfare can't make them come back then nothing can
yeah, intermediate rifle cartridges make too much sense, you only need one or two hits for immediate incapacitation, fire rates are similar enough, ammo is lightweight enough, and it can do rifle-stuff too
>not clearing trenches with a goddamn 12ga shotgun
no wonder this war is at a stalemate
There should be assault teams with AA-12s loaded with drum magazines and plenty of frag and WP grenades.
Actually are they even manufacturing the AA-12 these days? Did anybody ever buy it?
Frag that small is just impractical
I didn't mean those odd frag shells which seems mostly like a gimmick. I just meant generous amounts of fragmentation grenades and WP grenades to throw.
>AA-12s
Those shits are too big
How do you grip that front grip when those big as drum mags are sticking out to the side?
Was this weapon designed for Ghetto Americans?
like so
Just like the doctor at the enlistment center
I swear those docs make their hands cold on purpose
Ah so it was made for Italians?
EY', IM TRENCH CLEARING 'ERE!
da spicy submachineagun
Is this the infamous "angry Italian" grip?
...at last, my time HAS COME
>tac-sac
Add this grip for maximum assertion of dominance.
Attach a dildo as well like a bayonet for maximum effect
my sides
> Was this weapon designed for Ghetto Americans?
Kek, but wait till they discover dat mufuggin nahh milli kriss wit the hunnit drum on dat bih. They’d be cooming all over it
I used to set up the Terran Republic SMG in Planetside 2 set up like this as a cope lmg, it was effective certainly up close.
SMG are only good against people without body armor.
You wouldn't want to mag dump someone just to shrug it off.
At least AK rounds have enough energy to put the target down to his knees in pain even if the bullet gets stopped.
9mm rounds barely feel like a girl's slap with good body armor.
lmao what is this video game bullshit, if you have good plates you won't feel shit. A 9mm and a 7.62 are going to feel about the same which is to say very little.
I have no idea where this meme about getting shot with plates hurts came from but it's complete nonsense, it either stops the bullet or it doesn't.
This doesn't even take into account the massive adrenaline dump most people get when being shot regardless of the armor or not, when you have that much adrenaline pumping in your system you don't feel shit.
>it either stops the bullet or it doesn't
Yep, it stops the bullet, but it doesn't magically stop its energy from going into your ribs.
>its another boomer doesn't understand how ceramic stops bullets episode
Being shot in the plates doesn't do shit.
>its another moron who doesn't understand physics
Go get shot in the plates then
OK lad, what is your level of education?
Let's think about this. Across what surface area would the force of the impact be spread if it hit a plate (not soft armor) before touching a person? Would it be bigger or smaller than a rifle buttstock? Now, would it be more or less force than the amount transmitted to the shooter in recoil?
>Across what surface area would the force of the impact be spread if it hit a plate
If we're talking ceramic plates, as you mentioned, about the size of a fist.
>Now, would it be more or less force than the amount transmitted to the shooter in recoil?
The force would be the same, but the impulse would be greater.
consider that these can't both be true
Conveniently, here are a couple videos of people being hit with 762x39 from an AK wearing lvl IV ceramic plates:
Many such examples are available. Are you guys here from PrepHole?
>That deformation
Are you trying to say it wouldn't hurt?
It wouldn't hurt
Are you sure about the caliber
>energy from going into your ribs
The area of the plate spreads the energy, moron
Potatoes
>OP posts white background stock image of a gun he has never fired
>proceeds to state something like its fact
ahem
True, bullpups are making a comeback for a reason
>cqb
>errybody has hard armor
Pccs are no longer viable in warfare, but they have their place elsewhere
did you forget about the WWII Thompson's they found in crates at the beginning of the war? Also, pic related, but trenches.
Smgs are a civilian and very rear echelon weapon
If you’re the type to ignore federal gun law (definitely not me officer) an smg for traveling when you don’t want the whole weight of a rifle or shotgun, or don’t want to give up that much space in your bags, is luxurious
Also they’re good women’s and children’s guns
my wife can’t adequately control the recoil of a twelve gauge and she finds even sbrs difficult to hold, she can’t train around the issues effectively because she’s nursing or pregnant or running around with our kids in between. A 5” pcc though she’s fine with
Likewise my oldest son who’s just at the age where I trust him to access self defense firearms is the same way.
So it’s good to have an option for these kinds of people.
Now you have something that's useful the 1% of the time you're storming a trench
The military hasn't needed SMG since short barreled rifles in intermediate cartridges became the standard. Truly, to save the SMG we need to get rid of the 1986 machine gun ban, only civilians who think they're cool have any interest in them.
That's what shotguns are for.
Everyone jokes about Russians running around with plate-less carriers but nobody wants to take lol9mm to the trenches to prove it.
Yeah. It obviously doesn't. You can watch video after video of people taking full-power cartridges to the plate at point blank and they barely flinch.
The assault rifle beat the SMG for an offensive role 80 years ago, dude. This is the exact reason.
>high capacity and low recoil
Black person that is the EXACT defining characteristic of an assault rifle. You're going to need a gun to shoot at dudes 100+ yards away, THEN clear a trench. Intermediate cartridges are a thing because you need something somewhat pistol-sized that goes fast and far while still hitting pretty hard. It's even select-fire so you can scratch that itch of multiple hits on target with bursts of full-auto.
You are unironically asking a question that was solved before your parents were even born and it was a revolution in small arms.
FRICK
>smg for trench clearing
>not a shot gun
>inb4 muh geneva convention
Rules only exist so israelites can convince you it's honorable to lose while not following any rules themselves.