Were they over sold? I was told you can't hide from "vacuum bombs." Well it doesn't seem to clear trenches better than anything before it.
Thermobaric weapons
Were they over sold? I was told you can't hide from "vacuum bombs." Well it doesn't seem to clear trenches better than anything before it.
We assumed they worked only to find out that they didn't
They work, it's just, you guess, russian are terrible at war.
Thermobarics are fine, its just that the TOS is a garbage death trap because of its insanely short range.
TOS-2 has 25km-35km range. It's literally fine.
May we see the TOS-2 in action?
>btw implying that it's enough when GMLRS exists
>"25-35km" what? that's huge difference
it works. even a near miss isn't good for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/16j59r9/ukrainian_soldiers_in_a_trench_get_almost_a/
the drawback is the short range, which makes it susceptible to lots of weapons. idk why soviets chose to develop the tos-1 instead of making thermobaric rockets for their other launchers.
there's a thread up about it right now:
as a hypothetical TOS operator, I'd be more concerned about long-range FPV drones than GMRLS.
you remind me of donbass soldiers complaining about "isis-american tactics" and ww1 german diplomats complaining about "barbaric" trench guns. shut the frick up
pinpoint accuracy isn't as important when you fire a salvo of dozens of rockets that each frick up a large area.
>pinpoint accuracy isn't as important when you fire a salvo of dozens of rockets that each frick up a large area.
so it's completely useless besides killing civilians
Very true, the entire ukrainian army fits into 1 square meter so there’s no military value in destroying an area larger than that. moron
It's been in use for at least a couple months now
What is the guidance system on the rockets?
Have we even seen a TOS-2 in the field? We've definitely seen TOS-1s and 1As, and those max out at 10km. Borderline useless.
>I was told you can't hide from "vacuum bombs."
Didn't your daddy teach you to not believe everything you heard back when you were like 9 or something?
Yeah, and I chose not to believe him.
It has to get to the trench first.
They are very devastating, but short ranged, innacurate and fragile
they are unironically terror weapons for use in urban environments against opponents who can't fight back, they appeal to the Russian need to massacre the weak to imagine themselves strong and work out deep seated self loathing (they unconsciously identify with the weak being massacred and finally are living vicariously like the social elites who step over them and use them as human chattel)
>they are unironically terror weapons for use in urban environments against opponents who can't fight back,
Fun fact: SDB bomb and JASSM cruise missile are in fact thermobaric weapons. And they use most powerful known to man thermobaric explosives (most powerful untill recent advances in this field).
1) No. They're not.
2) They're both HE-Frag.
3) USAF thermobarics is basically normal HE with some iron or aluminum-based powders sprinkled in. They make a slightly smaller boom (per lb of warhead), but stretch the explosion out a few milliseconds longer, allowing the blast effect to reach out a little farther while substantially reducing the effect of fragmentation. Thus, a fairly niche weapon best used against caves and bunkers.
4) Russia, not to be outdone, immediately mislabeled its FAE weapons as "thermobarics" in a deliberate attempt to conflate them with the new USAF weapons. This largely worked, as evidenced by posts like yours. FAE works on an entirely different principle, however.
>1) No. They're not.
They are. Google what is AFX-757.
>USAF thermobarics is basically normal HE with some iron or aluminum-based powders sprinkled in
And Russian thermobarics are isopropyl nitrate with magnesium powders sprinkled in.
>4) Russia, not to be outdone, immediately mislabeled its FAE weapons as "thermobarics" in a deliberate attempt to conflate them with the new USAF weapons.
Thers is no mislabeling.
Russian call their FAE (aircraft bombs ODAB) as FAE (ODAB).
Russian call their thermobarics (RPO and TOS) as thermobarics.
The O in ODAB, RPO, TOS and BMO stands for incendiary/flamethrower. The distinction you’re describing doesn’t exist in Russian
ODAB stands for OДAБ Oбъeмнo Дeтoниpyющaя Aвиaциoннaя Бoмбa "Volume Blast Aircraft Bomb" been direct translation.
In eng version of Rosoboronexport catalog
http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-bombs/odab-500pmv/
Russians call it "The ODAB-500PMV fuel-air-explosive bomb" (and it is classic Fuel Air explosive bomb loaded with ethylene oxide just like it's predecesor The CBU-72).
Anon they work, the problem is the have-to-get-it-up-into-range part is more dangerous so payoff is not so good. If exploded while hiding in a layby everyone in said layby is dead.
Every war is different, a lower intensity war with less flat land maybe things would be different.
They work fine if they get to fire, but you just need to get them close enough to be bombed by cheap drones. You can guess how that goes.
>Were they over sold?
they do their specific job well
they do other jobs poorly
this is about on par with most specialist weapons
>I was told you can't hide from "vacuum bombs." Well it doesn't seem to clear trenches better than anything before it.
their main purpose is burning slowly but more energetically
essentially trading frag and blast for heat
useless at killing infantry or destroying fortifications, but effective at clearing out buildings by rapidly consuming all oxygen inside of them and creating much more heat and smoke in the process
Thermobarics has larger blast than conventional explosives it's literally their point. Their maximum blast pressure is lower than conventional explosives (ie RDX) but overall impulse of the blast is higher because of much longer pressure time.
About half of them are already turned into dust
Imagine having to crew this self-propelled fuel air bomb.
>self-propelled fuel air bomb.
How did you know the nickname I gave my wife?
There's definitely Russian footage of trenches where something killed all the Ukrainians dudes despite them being under good cover.
Being killed by Pressure waves off close hits by large diameter artillery have been happening since WW1
If it exterminates troops in trenches then why aren't the Russians just walking right in and taking them over?
They work, but you'd need an absurd amount of them to clear the absurd amount of sparsely manned trenches
Thermobarics are great for places where hitting people with shrapnel is made difficult like urban enviroments, bunkers or tunnels. The main problem that the larger systems that use this type of warhead are not suited for warfare against peers but systems like the shmel or flash thermobaric rocket launchers are great at doing what they are supposed to even in a war against peers.
> inb4 Oleg at the factory sold half of the payload again
>Well it doesn't seem to clear trenches better than anything before it.
Their range is subpar, they have no way of getting close enough to any trenches without getting clocked immediately upon trying.
Thermobaric weapons don't seem effective in the open.
As described earlier in the thread, thermobarics have a longer impulse over regular HE and generally produce little frag. They sorta work against trenches because the blast wave goes around corners, but what they really shine in is collapsing buildings and against cave systems. Thermobarics are more effective against buildings pound for pound because in a regular blast most of the energy is not transferred to the structure, while more energy is transferred in the longer impulse of a thermobaric. This is what Shmel and that special SMAW/Carl gustav round are for
Against trenches with only light overhead protection airbursts would seem like the obvious solution
Seems like it would need ideal atmospheric conditions.
That's an aerosol bomb, I'm not up to date whether all FAEs are thermobarics or vice versa, but all deployed systems use solid fuels as far as I know
>That's an aerosol bomb
I don't know what the frick you are on about but bombs that spread liquid fuel that is then ignited are different from fuel rich aluminized (or more modern compositions) explosives. Enhanced blast and "Novel explosive" are the western terms iirc
They don't even get a chance to fire before an fpv frick them up good.
At least they give us a good spectacle with their amazing explosions when the drones hit them.