>There are still people out there who think that hypersonic missiles are about speed
>There are still people out there who think that hypersonic missiles are about speed
>There are still people out there who think that hypersonic missiles are about speed
pseud thread
Hypersonic missiles are about speed.
What you've posted is a hypersonic glide vehicle/missile mrv system, which is more about maneuverability/stealth.
all missiles are hypersonic
ekhm, tomahawk
Its a cruise missile or Marschflugkörper as we call it in german
Still a missile.
My pencil is a missile when I launch it with a rubber band
>What advantages would a hypersonic glide vehicle have over a conventional cruise missile?
>all missiles are hypersonic
no they arent dipshit, and the OP's pic clearly explains the difference between BALLISTIC trajectory US trash, and HGV's like Russia/China that are essentially "behind the horizon" untill a matter of seconds before impact
radars have literally no reaction time to track them, before they hit the target
space based tracking would detect them easily though
Oh, another wumao chicom mastrudbation thread. You homosexuals need to be eaten by escalators or have an entire city block collapse on you more often. It's disgusting to me that you get paid in bags of rice for shitting up the board like you do, here's hoping Xi executes you.
>wumao
Stop using random asian words you read on reddit to try to fit in you fricking spastic, no one knows what the frick they mean
t. seething chink
but Patriot shot down six Kinzhals
almost as if kinzhal is just a soviet iskander ballistic missile thrown from a soviet mig31 and not a HGV at all
then why aren't the Russians using their unstoppable HGVs
maybe cause it doesn't exist
they're already in deployment. right next to T14 Armata, T15 Armatas and SU57
The Kinzhal is just an ALBM like the cancelled Skybolt, not an HGV
The materials needed for a "hyper Sonic glide vehicle" do not exist on the elemental table.
>The materials needed for a "hyper Sonic glide vehicle" do not exist on the elemental table.
Sure, that's why the space shuttle always melted everyime they rentered the atmosphere at mach 25 right?
>he doesn't know
anon, they used body and shuttle doubles. the actual astronauts were turned into ashes. it's the perfect coverup, think about it
>but Patriot shot down six Kinzhals
no they fricking didnt, congress doesnt even pretend this horseshit is true
>Anon there are satellites that pick them up. They are quite "noisy". Everyone knows they are coming. The fact they are going so creates conditions where as they get closer they are insanely easy to shoot down. The Chinese and Russian weapons are very stupid. An new element is needed to be created to make them useful. A very strong metal that can take insane amounts of heat that barely reacts to electricity and magnetism
Lets read the US congress breifing on hypersonic missiles!
https://news.usni.org/2022/06/22/gao-report-on-hypersonic-missile-defense
https://news.usni.org/2023/05/03/report-to-congress-on-hypersonic-missile-defense-3
>"U.S. defense officials have stated that both existing terrestrial- and space-based sensor architectures are insufficient to detect and track hypersonic weapons; former Under Secretary of Defense for Research and Engineering Mike Griffin has noted that “hypersonic targets are 10 to 20 times dimmer than what the U.S. normally tracks by satellites in geostationary orbit.”"
>". In addition, some analysts have argued that the United States’ current command and control architecture would be incapable of “processing data quickly enough to respond to and neutralize an incoming hypersonic threat."
>"For example, most terrestrial-based radars cannot detect hypersonic weapons until late in the weapon’s flight due to line-of-sight limitations of radar detection. This leaves minimal time for a defender to launch interceptors that could neutralize an inbound weapon. Figure 1 depicts the differences in terrestrial-based radar detection timelines for ballistic missiles versus hypersonic weapons"
you fricking shills are pathetic, luckily the truth eventually comes out in these reports to congress, where the silly little horse shit "muh morale boost!" lying about intercepting kinzhals goes into the trash
>Taking congressional reports at face value.
You do realize the DoD has regularly undersold their existing systems and heavily oversold enemy systems to justify budget increases? That shit is like clockwork.
>U.S. defense officials have stated that both existing terrestrial- and space-based sensor architectures are insufficient to detect and track hypersonic weapons; former Under Secretary of Defense for Research and Engineering Mike Griffin has noted that “hypersonic targets are 10 to 20 times dimmer than what the U.S. normally tracks by satellites in geostationary orbit.”"
That's true, though still WELL within the thermal threshold for US space based IR sat to detect and track them.
Lecture from which that SS came from:
More:
https://blog.ucsusa.org/ctracy/setting-the-record-straight-on-hypersonic-weapons/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-physics-and-hype-of-hypersonic-weapons/
7:0
>Russia reportedly fielded its first hypersonic weapons in December 2019
Kinzhal was fielded in 2017; therefore your source implicitly does not consider Kinzhal a hypersonic weapon.
Aren't both of these reports from before Ukraine's patriot batteries came online? Also
makes a good point.
also this Black person didn't even read the article he linked
Kinzhal can't maneuver on account of being a ballistic missile, and why would they talk about advantages of hypersonic weapons over ballistic missiles if they considered Kinzhal to be one?
In context, the reports are clearly about HGVs, which Russia has yet to demonstrate they can field for some reason, even though they totally have the mach 20 Avanguard.
We all know that Russia's just holding back. Gloves are still on.
If Putin makes his army too big then the army might come back demanding his head on a pike.
>If Putin makes his army too big then the army might come back demanding his head on a pike.
there is zero threat of this
not now, not ever
zero
That's what every dictator thinks and then someone crosses the Rubicon with their army intact.
>Kinzhal can't maneuver on account of being a ballistic missile
iirc iskander was claimed to pull terminal maneuvers, either pull-up or random telegraph, at around 30g lateral. so kinzhal should be able to do the same
>iirc iskander was claimed to pull terminal maneuvers, either pull-up or random telegraph, at around 30g lateral. so kinzhal should be able to do the same
Anon there are satellites that pick them up. They are quite "noisy". Everyone knows they are coming. The fact they are going so creates conditions where as they get closer they are insanely easy to shoot down. The Chinese and Russian weapons are very stupid. An new element is needed to be created to make them useful. A very strong metal that can take insane amounts of heat that barely reacts to electricity and magnetism.
You realize that you can place radars in multiple locations, and not just at the target location, right? Aerial radars and space based tracking have been things for decades already.
7:0
Going to leave this here.
Also my bad forgot the link. https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/kinzhal/
>Hypersonics aren't all about speed
>Actually, they're entirely about speed.
Great thread.
So taking away it's speed advantage, a HGV is exactly like a cruise missile only worse in every conceivable way including their ability to close with the target while remaining under the radar horizon? Wow. It's almost as if OP is a moron and hypersonic missiles are indeed about speed
Not accounted for: satellites, AWACS
So to hijack this thread, what if you added a hypersonic terminal stage to a conventional cruise missile. There would be less weight so you wouldn't need a large rocket and at Mach 5 you could rely on kinetic energy to do most of the damage.
hear me out guys...
Why not take the shortcut?
>no they arent dipshit, and the OP's pic clearly explains the difference between BALLISTIC trajectory US trash, and HGV's like Russia/China that are essentially "behind the horizon" untill a matter of seconds before impact
It's literally the opposite, you monumental moron. Russia and China are trying to pass off regular ballistic missiles are hypersonics, while the US is working on actual hypersonics. What the frick is with you moronic ratniks and your endless fricking projection?
No. All BALLSITIC missiles are hypersonic. There's a difference between that and what hypersonic cruise missiles, and Hypersonic Glide Vehicles are and can manage, and is why every time I see a thread about how "KHINZAL AMAZING HYPERSONIC MISSILE DESTROYERS OF PATRIOT AND IMMUNE TO SHOOTDOWN" I wind up cringing hard enough to turn into a ball. All Khinzal is, is a cut down and modified Iskander TBM, it's just an ALBM, nothing is special about it
Absolutely this; I beg everyone to read beyond the headlines about the topic
why do people think hypersonic weapons (specifically HGVs) are stealthy? They can be reliably tracked from space lol
Wishful thinking. Reentry plasma can absorb radio waves that match the frequency of the plasma. This used to frick up radio but we found a way around it decades ago.
so look for the frickhueg plasma spots and boom, that's your REV. it's literally not rocket science.
Is this not the definition of rocket science?
>Is this not the definition of rocket science?
nta but no, rocket science is getting something UP, that's what involves the rocket part. Tracking meteors isn't rocket science either, they are fast hot lumps of mass hitting the atmosphere. HGVs or MIRVs aren't any different. And stealth isn't possible when plasma is involved.
>Reentry plasma can absorb radio waves that match the frequency of the plasma
You fricking moron. They absorb ALL em, and are literally gigantic fricking photon emitters due to the heat. Communications? Sure, that's a challenge. TRACKING the thing? That has never once been a challenge, at all. That's the entire point of early warning radar systems. And the launch is impossible to hide as well. It's a big gigantic fricking flare rising into the cold!
>You fricking moron. They absorb ALL em, and are literally gigantic fricking photon emitters due to the heat.
Actually, it doesn't absorb the entire spectrum. Plasma only absorbs the radar frequency it's in tune with according to it's temperature. It will actually deflect radio waves otherwise.
The tracking is actually a bit of an issue. Passive sensors don't range on their own so you need two points to make a parallax and that's limited by the distance between the sensors.
>You fricking moron.
There's no need for that language.
>Actually, it doesn't absorb the entire spectrum.
That was a typo, one of the ones that totally fricks the meaning. They don't absorb everything, hence aren't stealth.
>The tracking is actually a bit of an issue.
In like, the 1950s or 60s? Sure. But not by the 70s, or else the entire concept of ABM/SMD would be pointless. Actually, the entire point of HGVs really is to get low and maneuver because they're the opposite of stealthy, so getting below radar horizon is the best chance to survive a final sprint for a target.
Nothing going hypersonic is going to be stealthy in lower atmosphere. So the best chances are getting low, maneuvers, decoys, or just plain going even faster to make it even harder to catch in time. I guess the ultimate there would be the old nuclear pumped xray/gamma beam concept, detonate 100 miles up with a beam that can be aimed at a ship or something, which would guarantee a hit.
>Nothing going hypersonic is going to be stealthy in lower atmosphere
I actually agree with you there. Like I said, the entire concept is Wishful Thinking. You can absorb radar waves with plasma but that means controling the temperature of the plasma around the vessel to tune it to incoming radar. There's a kernal of truth in there but actually making a stealth system out of that is entirely impractical.
>There's no need for that language.
This is fair though, sorry one falls into that mindset on PrepHole sometimes. But I don't get why you'd reply to a post saying hypersonic stuff isn't stealthy with "wishful thinking". Other anon was correct.
I was reply to "why do people think hypersonic weapons (specifically HGVs) are stealthy?" And the answer to that is Wizards 1st Rule. People are Stupid. They believe what they want or what they fear.
>They absorb ALL em,
>They DON'T absorb
durr
The PRoC has hidden launches though. They moved a mobile launcher into a wooded area, set the woods on fire and launched from inside the burning area. Worked like a charm. The missile was only detected at the top of its arc by radar nor IR.
setting the scene for the missile to come from russia's side lol
that's Chyna dawg. Doesn't change shit, they're still 20+ years behind the West, just maybe not 50+ years like the russkies
I mean to say when the znpp is obliterated by a missile soon, a missile that will obviously come from russias direction, the fact HGVs can sort of swing round from behind (as per OPs image) will be used to prove it was actually the US using an HGV
JUST SAY MANEUVERABLE HYPERSONIC MISSILE OR SOMETHING
BALLISTIC MISSILES HAVE BEEN HYPERSONIC SINCE INCEPTION
BOOST GLIDE ITSELF ISN'T EVEN NEW
THE FRICKING SPACE SHUTTLE WAS BOOST GLIDE AND YOU THINK WE COULDN'T MAKE A FRICKING ATMOSPHERIC VEHICLE GOING 4X SLOWER AND 1/100TH THE SIZE DO THE SAME THING YOU FRICKIN MORON
>they discovered the laws of physics
>they understand about drag
>they know about atmospheric density
>they have seen the shocking L/D ratio
It's over for us HGV-cels
Ok, so take away the speed factor from your image. What advantages would a hypersonic glide vehicle have over a conventional cruise missile?
>take away the speed factor
then it's just a cruise missile genius
Gee, anon. I wonder why I asked the OP who claimed hypersonic missiles weren't about speed that specific question. Could it have been a way of drawing attention to his moronation? (Yes.)
>hypersonic missiles are about speed
that's literally the point
hypersonic missiles are a lot lower to the ground so couldn't you use lower tech means to shoot them down?
Give me my 870 and a box of super x #4 shot and I'll bring that missle down for ya.
>it doesnt matter we don't need them
Is that why the US is pouring money to catch up?
"Catch up" to who? The Russians' best hypersonics can be stopped by '90s American air defense.
Do you have *any*?
>Air defense
First you have to track them
>2019
>We don't need to update anything
HBTSS
The atmosphere is fairly opaque to some parts of the IR spectrum, so in the latter stage of the glide-in, a space based IR sensor could have trouble picking up a hot vehicle depending on the exact vehicle temperature, vehicle altitude, and specs of the sensor.
helpful document
The clue is in the name anon