There are many movies where a barely sentient animal that only melee-attacks is presented as a potential superweapon but how useful would something like a JP dinosaur or a Xenomorph be in a real war?
How useful would dinosaurs or xenomorphs be in a modern war?
>tfw no drone footage of NATO bioengineered raptors raiding a vatnik trench
Shame
>dinosaurs
Not really
>xenomorph
Is literally the culmination of an intergalactic bio weapon used for extermination creating the "perfect" organism. It would be a terrible superweapon unless you just wanted to render a planet uninhabitable.
>citing Alien Covenant
Frick that movie and frick you for considering it canon
>it's not canon because I don't like it!
Cope and seethe moron, your beloved franchise is ran by idiots and Gearbox's Aliens:Colonial Marines is also official canon lmao get rekt
trained attack dogs were a mainstay of war for a reason.
i mean patrol groups would benefit from a Labrador-sized raptor that has a dozen filet knives ready to gut a motherfricker in a split second.
>trained attack dogs were a mainstay of war for a reason.
Because the people they were fighting had melee weapons also. There’s a reason when European armies had muskets you didn’t have attack dogs
There's more to war than fighting soldiers who are at parity with you.
There's garrison duties, patrols, policing etc...
Then you would have said guard dogs not attack dogs
>trained attack dogs were a mainstay of war for a reason.
What? No they weren't
Read up on the Earth War series if you want to see what happens when the Xenomorphs are unleashed on a planet. They became unstoppable.
The dumbest part of Alien Covenant was how it showed that there's a version of the Xenomorph that can just kill you with a puff of smoke that follows you around.
Why the frick do any of the other versions of the Xenomorphs even exist? Why does the puff of smoke even bother with the rest of the xenomorph life cycle since it obviously wouldn't need that to do its super weapon bullshit? It's not just a bad movie, it also kinda ruins the series villain.
Because the puff of smoke is an evolution of the original liquid. There was no more higher lifeforms to change so it turned itself into a type of fungus to survive longer periods of dormency.
Incorrect, the puff of smoke is all that's required to kill everybody. It's clearly a better weapon than an albino Xenomorph.
The premise originally was that the Xenomorph has the lifecycle that it does because it serves an evolutionary function. It straight up doesn't anymore.
The xenomorph wasn't the weapon, the goo was. In the books and extra lore before Ridley had to big brain vent about religion the engineers would drop eggs and the xenos were the bioweapons. However, they've now become a perfect oegeganism crafted/guided alon the excellerated evolutiomary process by Ridley's man-crush, Fassbender, because he got butthurt and went insane about being a souless machine that Weyalnd told "couldn't create, only serve". The goo is basically primordial ooze with the added flair of jumpstarting evolution.
David fricking up the planet with his black goo bombardment turned the black goo into tiny spores.
An Alien 5 concept storyboard explored ultra tiny facehuggers that worked a similar way but spawns a juvenile sized xenomorph instead of a chestburster.
>The dumbest part of Alien Covenant was how it showed that there's a version of the Xenomorph that can just kill you with a puff of smoke that follows you around.
That seemed to just be a spore cloud, albeit it a smart-ish one.
The spore pod was stepped on by someone or disturbed by vibration, then the spores are released and infect whatever is near.
It's not motile but not mobile enough to hunt, it can only ambush.
Alien Covenant had a lot of bullshit but I thought the spores were one of the least bullshit parts of it. A dormant phase of the xenomorph generating organism seems pretty reasonable.
Don't mind me, just posting the most effective bioweapon in fiction.
Just disregard anything but the first game since the writers deliberately try to throw the entire game's worth of character development in the trash.
>character development
Yes anon, that's a thing that sometimes happens even in goofy action games where the plot is basically just an excuse to elbow drop people off the empire state building.
He thought he was Alex Mercer a scientist who found out his work was being used to create an illegal bioweapon and tried to expose it only to have his sample exposed during a shootout. He was wrong.
>alex mercer was a sociopathic shithead who put on a face of humanity while not giving a frick about anyone or anything to the point he deliberately released a mutant plague because he was going to get shitcanned despite his sister being miles away at best
>i adopted that human face and acted it out when it assimilated his body
>frick it, I'll be what he should have been and fix what he did because nobody else can, and i'll keep pretending to be him to take care of his sister so she never knows her brother didn't love her
>fake human, fake brother, I don't give a shit, i'll do the right thing and suck it up forever if need be
The idea was that he had munched on so many ordinary people and seen what was inside them. Almost all zombie scenarios like most fiction are written by libtards and when things don't conform to their homosexual ideals they quickly become nihilistic. How many of writers of these fictional settings seem outright angry that hicks are blowing away the monsters easily without suffering any libtarded compunctions? What the Virus Mercer saw wasn't just a bunch of petty monsters which libtards paradoxically assume must be the case because everybody doesn't agree with their shitty opinions. He saw people doing what they could with what they had for what they believed in or loved, wrong or right. So he adopted that outlook. It's anti-nihilism.
Also the disease was so fricked up it didn't require everyone to lose the functions of their neocortex to be a threat.
And then he wants to mutate the world because something something, muh homie muddfricka. All that metaplot about other crazy mutant superbeings the government possessed that you'd get to fist fight in the sequel, nah nobody wants that. Who'd want a bunch of boss fights in the video game?
>goes through the effort of absorbing 500 gorillion officers just to learn that it's the government working in concert with a megacorp, which we guessed from the first five minutes
Cut it some slack dude was literally a day old
> Don't mind me, just posting the most effective bioweapon in fiction.
Ahem, enter
this thing looks moronic
>how do we make our monster scarier?
>idk, put some spider legs and bat wings on its head?
>idk, put some spider legs and bat wings on its head?
From what I remember the thing did get it’s head cut off only for it to fly away.
I thought it just sprouted crabby legs and scuttled off really quick. Well, that piece of it. Anyway I don't think that was too corny for a very quick and dirty adaptation to the circumstances. So I guess it depends on if that monster had head legs/wings from the get-go or not.
In my defence the last time I read it was like 15 years ago when I was ten years old. I’ve forgotten what really happened in the book and am only going off vague memories.
>Don't mind me, just posting the most effective bioweapon in fiction.
You're both wrong. The quantum virus can be programmed to break down specific targets on the subatomic level. You could rub it all over yourself and still be utterly unaffected as you kick back and watch precisely the portion of the planet's population that you hate get slowly erased from existence, not even leaving a mess.
Obviously useless. A gun is useful at all ranges including melee. Even the xenomorphs which are presented as ultimate killing machines that can somehow smash through steel bulkheads and survive being doused in molten lead and on optimal turf had an extremely poor kill ratio against a squad of crayon-eaters. What is anything biological supposed to against the full auto of an assault rifle or battle rifle except die or abuse plot armor? The only way melee animals could possibly pose a cost-efficient threat is if they were bulletproof or some other method of high durability. At that point we're looking at machines or magic.
Some of the Alien comics explored the idea that the xenomorphs had basic physic sensitivity keyed to identifying fear in others. So something like running and hiding doesn't work cause you're still scared and it can figure out where you are. Not exactly the greatest magic power but I suppose it is a form of live intelligence gathering concerning whether you are vulnerable or not.
>crayon eaters
>armed with near antimateriel level small arms and dropships
>inflict 95% losses
Yeah naw.
>xenomorphs have literally never seen marines before and dont know what they are capable of
>quickly adapt tactics to their weapons
>are shown to be able to understand how human tech works to some degree, like cutting power to the command center and utilizing air vents
the takeaway from the movie is that the aliens are highly intelligent and capable of adapting to new threats
they did take high casualties against a technologically superior enemy, but they were shown to be keeping them on the ropes anyways through adapting their tactics to close the distance between them
>aliens are highly intelligent and capable of adapting to new threats
One of the early ideas they had for the first movie was that the aliens are actualy a very sophisticated civilisation but the one running around is essentially a feral child.
>queen loses to a woman who’s forklift certified and her 22nd century forklift
I think humanity will win this one
>At that point we're looking at machines or magic.
Are you moronic? The idea that something biological could be bulletproof definitely doesn't need to assume magic or cybernetics. If we ever found spacefaring life it would necessarily be bulletproof to survive micrometeorites and radiation proof to survive cosmic rays. Life on earth already builds itself out of materials that could form bulletproof structures, like chitin, aramid, keratin or bone, it just doesn't build enough to be bulletproof because there were no pressures to make bulletproofing a successful evolutionary strategy (arguably until recently).
It's funny because you don't know that the Xenomorphs are bullet proof by current standards. The second movie has them dying to bullets because the marines are using super advance futuristic ammunition or some shit. No, the horseshoe crab isn't making itself bulletproof to futuristic weapons. Xenomorph is still dead to guns.
They easily die to gunfire in the AVP movies. One even gets killed by a Glock in the 2nd film.
Those movies aren't canon.
Wew lad. This is the first time I've seen one of those crazy power-level mad fanboys for the Xenomorph franchise. Are you parodying them? Because you're doing a good job imitating the typical deranged fanboy, what with the craziness and the lack of knowledge about the setting.
They aren't wrong though. The Alien vs Predator movies are not canon to the Alien franchise. Those two movies are just fanservice for Predator fans such as myself.
A friend of mine said that a Predator mask wouldn't even be scratched by anything that we have on earth currently, including a AP shell from Yamato.
He also dropped a Text RP thing they were running for like, 5-6 years. It was very surprising that people would rather pilot a mech or blow shit up with a battleship instead of being a Tarkov rat, especially when your opposition includes anything from Walmart Brand Necromorphs to literal Kaiju. The funniest part was that their breaking point happened because we buck broke one of their giga homie monster with two Bradley's and a suicide drone with a HESH round strapped to it.
Movies aren't cannon. In cannon stories xenos are effectively immune to handguns, shotguns, and likely resistant to most civilian rifle rounds. They're fricking tough. Colonial marines are using future bullshit 10mm high explosive armor penetrating rounds that do a number on them by comparison
So basically any .30cal steel core rounds would work. Or smaller rounds with steel cores and higher muzzle velocity.
How do you know? I don't think your ammo compares to 22nd century ammo, especially if that ammo is meant to beat 22nd century armor.
The marine ammo makes them explode like balloons filled with battery acid. So I'd assume something hard enough with enough velocity will penetrate them. They are supposedly silicon based in part so assume their shells are something like silicon carbine mixed with polymers. the EHC is polyethylene based and can stop .30 fmj but not the steel core of a .30 round.
>tldr pretty much consider xenos to be somewhere in the area of lvl 3+ to lvl 4+ full coverage
So exactly what I said previously? Because high velocity .30 or .223 with a hard core goes through III+. but often not IV. Thus you agree with my original assessment.
gob bless your retartet hardt
Are sure it isn't you homosexuals who are moronic? I'm saying they can be harmed by rounds not that they are equivalent in terminal effect. If you dumped a magazine into the rapist space bug's face it would die not that it would explode from a few stray rounds like in the movie.
Nah they're tougher than that. And the 22nd century wizard ammo is better than anything you'd come up with.
Hicks kills at least one with 00 buck, and Vasquez kills another with 9mm out of a S&W Model 39.
How do you know they weren't using some crazy future ammo?
do you have a disability of some sort? just because *insert future BS high explosive armor penetrating round* works, does not mean "basically any steel core whatever will work". Modern AP ammo out of a full caliber rifle probably would work, if not the steel core stuff then the tungsten stuff, but thats just an opinion.
>tldr pretty much consider xenos to be somewhere in the area of lvl 3+ to lvl 4+ full coverage
>the marines are using super advance futuristic ammunition or some shit
The pulse rifles they used were cool but I don't recall them having super powered rounds. They were just teched out 10mm rifles with a grenade launcher attachment. Most fantastical thing about them was how they jammed so much shit into the weapons system while keeping it relatively lightweight and stable enough so that even someone relatively untrained could use it effectively. Hell, Hicks fricked up a Xenomorph with a plain old 12 guage shotgun.
>The pulse rifles they used were cool but I don't recall them having super powered rounds. They were just teched out 10mm rifles with a grenade launcher attachment.
The Pulse Rifle fired a 10mm diameter cartridge loaded with explosive bullets. It wasn't 10mm Auto. IIRC, it was caseless, so the things were probably using a .416 Rigby sized bullet and probably with a good bit more velocity with future gun recoil mitigation bullshit.
>Hicks fricked up a Xenomorph with a plain old 12 guage shotgun.
Via shoving the barrel in its mouth. That's the important part. Extended Aliens lore says their exoskeleton is nearly impervious to pistol calibers, which doesn't conflict with anything in the movies.
lmao, AP my ass.
The pulse rifle fires a 210 grain bullet at 840 meters per second, which gives it a sectional density and sectional energy 81% less than 7.62 NATO. It's actually worse than a battle rifle for AP.
Not if it's explosive, dingus.
What does that have to do with whether it's armor-piercing? Do you know anything about guns? An explosive bullet isn't going to pierce armor that AP can't.
Gorman refers to their ammunition as "10 millimeter explosive-tip caseless. Standard light armor-piercing round" when Ripley asks bedore having them switch to flamers.
OK, but what's your point? Explosive bullets just means they're less bulletproof, not more. Are you working on Hollywood logic? Do you know anything about guns?
>applying modern firearm logic to future guns
It's probably a shaped charge with an extremely energetic explosive. The way the Xenos fricking explode when hit is way more than a typical explosive round that fits in any small arm projectile.
kek, xenomorph fanwank. Now I've seen everything.
He's gonna keep arguing that that's just Hollywood rule of cool, and furthermore the stated specs prove the round to be inferior to current ammunition, therefore the creature less durable, and thus today's small arms will suffice.
You'll keep arguing that the xenomorphs getting splattered by the rounds proves that there are factors beyond the stated specifications of the weapon that show it to be more powerful, hence today's small arms would be insufficient. If you can't agree on what matters I don't think this'll end til one o ya gets bored
I hate to break it to you but those structures apart from aramid (which is man-made so I don't know why you've included that) are terribly inefficient at blocking bullets and would have to be large and weighty to be bullet proof. At that point we're looking at large animals, which would just get completely wrecked by a combat vehicle of equivalent tonnage or size. Organics just fricking suck, it's just a fact of life.
Nothing can be that size, move that fast, be bulletproof, be biologic, AND not have an incredibly insane energy requirement. As they exist it’s not really possible to grow to their size and reproduce as fast as they do with consuming the amount of food/energy they do. But I’ll ignore that because it’s lame and boring. An animal isn’t going to stop rifle rounds. Basic .223 55gr FMJ will punch straight through 1/4” steel without any issue. Even .22LR goes through a cows skull. Cows weigh well over 1000lbs. A xenomorph isn’t stopping bullets, or would be too big/heavy/slow/ energy intensive to be a threat
The problem with xenomorphs is that they get loose and become an infestation. Yes, you can kill them pretty easily with guns, but they breed like flies and will destroy whole ecosystems in the process. By the time you even know you have an infestation, the plaet is already fricked.
in a real war, they'd be massacred by a single Apache overhead with infrared and a chain gun
in a limited war against infantry in heavy jungle and forest, now that's the ticket
>t. been reading Peter Capstick
Based Capstick enjoyer
Domesticated Leopards trained like service canines would be absolutely fricking terrifying to face in a low intensity conflict.
>Domesticated Leopards trained like service canines
thats a cool idea
nice bookshelf
those sneaky fricking leopards - imagine Deinonychus that behave like that
They'd just have to clear-cut more space around all installations. If you know the only things out in the woods are monsters, then you don't really need to worry about rules of engagement, there are no civilians out there. Anything that moves, dies.
one large dino by itself would be useless but a pack of them with trainers in the right circumstance would be pretty terrifying
we still use dogs afterall
>clever girl
>dinosaurs
Get absolutely fricked by a basic rifle squad.
>xenomorph
Absolutely horrifying to anything but a mechanized division.
>Absolutely horrifying to anything but a mechanized division.
In the open I don’t think they’d be that bad. Rifles would kill them just fine, let alone GMPGs and explosives. They are scary when you are in close quarters and they can easily charge you
They'd serve great for when the enemy is retreating. Imagine ...
>enemy rations and supplies are low due to constant fighting.
>suffered losses due to artillery or enemy air support.
>Morale is low.
>commanding officer orders a tactical retreat to a new position that could still be defended with their lower numbers.
>as the enemy head to their new position they have to fight hyper aggresive beasts.
Oh yeah, I'm using this in a fantasy story. Oh ... you meant something like dinosaurs in real life? We can just use drones on the enemy, its much more efficient than raising animals for years only for them to die.
JP dinosaurs would get fricked by a squad of infantry from just about any military. They only get out of hand in the first book and movie because Hammond was a homosexual and wouldn't let Muldoon have some real weapons. Note that the mercenaries in the second movie are successful until that son of a b***h Van Owen sabotages them. In 3 the mercs only brought a single rifle between the 3 of them which ends up screwing them while in the 2nd book nobody brings any weapons that are worth a frick.
Probably as useful as a dog if you can train it, and less useful than a human male with a rifle.
Utahraptors would make for excellent guard dogs if they were easy to domesticate and were capable of homeostasis.
>JP dinosaur
Pretty meh
>Xenomorph
Incredibly dangerous. Too effective, insomuch as once they get a foothold they'll be very hard to remove. Massive bombardment may clear the bulk of them but if even one manages to slip away, you're looking at doing it again and again and lord help you if they're deep underground. Clearing narrow spaces infested with those things would be a nightmare. It's not even the agility and strength its the pressurized corrosive blood. Movies undersell that shit, if it worked consistently fighting them up close is suicide. And they are sneeeeaky frickers.
Not even sure why WeYu wants to weaponize them. Too messy. Only good for the scorchest of scorched earth
>a barely sentient animal
>Xenomorph
>barely sentient animal is a potential superweapon
yes
Well the rice roaches do get killed in the number necessary to make the comparison apt.
I think the worst of these moronic scenarios was "Reign of Fire". I mean dragons are cool and all but unless it is some teleporting, shapeshifting, magical 250 IQ Elder Wrym from DnD its not really going to do well against even a Mig17.
Reign Of Fire is a pretty comfy movie, except for the part where they gloss over how dragons were good enough to wipe out thousands of F-15s, F-16s, F-18s etc from the sky and tens of thousands of tanks, but the dragon capital can fall to a couple dudes with a helicopter and a dream
>itt moron OP compares dinos to engineered planet destroying aliens
yeah man
He just wants to frick the dinosaur and engineered alien. I can feel it.
War? What are you talking about silly? Xenomorphs are for sex!
I still believe what makes xenomorphs dangerous, besides the difficulty in containing them in a densely populated area and their high adaptability, is the acid blood and their skill at moving around quickly and undetected in very tight spaces. I don't think they're armored enough to just power through a hail of gunfire but the way they stalk and hunt and pop up unexpectedly they don't need to. And if you get grabbed, it's game over. You'll wish you were dead.
The Xenomorph is an alien biological wmd. You just drop a cannister of eggs on your desired target and all animal life gets killed by xenomorphs.
>that guy who says 'melee attack' irl
>load up a flaktrak or three with these little guys
>drive up to enemy base
>transport soaks up a few hits to make sure they get delivered intact
>hope you enjoy getting everything you produce spawn camped for the next few minuets
Can someone shoot an elephant or a hippo with an RPG? For science? I'm tired of watching the monsters soak up rounds like it's nothing. At least the Xenos were shown being ripped apart by the pulse rifles and grenades.
I love those little guys.
>Can someone shoot an elephant or a hippo with an RPG? For science?
You can shoot cows with RPGs in Cambodia for like $200. I couldn’t find a video now but I know I’ve seen it before somewhere.
Hippos and elephants are obviously much larger but you get a general idea. If a cow gets mostly vaporized, a huge chunk of an elephant would be destroyed. It’s instant death regardless.
>Dies instantly to any base defense, which is also invincible to terror drones.
Yeah, I thought terror drones were invincible too, then they got within range of a base and got obliterated instantly.
Just telefrag it.
What kind of stupid question is this? A man with a gun is unquestionably deadlier than T-rex equivalent or Xenomorph, if you're going ask me which one I'll rather face I'm going to choose the melee animal every time. The only reason these things are considered a threat in their franchises is because the protagonists are either unarmed or outnumbered.
>I'm going to choose the melee animal every time
Says pregnant man being cocooned underground
It's actually quite incredible, they deliberately put a completely unnecessary scene in the second movie where the marines complain about having to use outdated 20th century trash, and show it wrecking the Xenomorphs, yet spergs still can't get the hint.
99.99% would get killed instantly but one would wander off in the woods, so people would say it singlehandedly defeated america
Isn't that how Australia lost the Emu War?
>how useful would something like a JP dinosaur or a Xenomorph be in a real war?
I think pretty effective. They would probably be stronger, faster have advanced sensory system systems like smell. Maybe even morphic resonance (like when you can tell someone is behind you). Not to mention weapons like claws and teeth.
Now what if they were reptilians who had all the aforementioned plus ESP and technology. That would be scary.
Fricking useless.
Dinosaur:
>marginally larger dog
>requires more food
>is extra moronic and may turn on handlers because hurr durr lizard brain hungry
>bigger target
Xenomorphs:
>release one into an enemy position
>enemy all dead within hours/days
>enemy position is now home to a hostile, aggressively expansionist predator that more or less requires nukes to exterminate
>they are now expanding towards both your lines and your enemy's lines
>brings a type III civilization to its knees
Such is the power of plot armour.
And techno-magic.
Fun fact: Flood were copied from the Vang.
What do you do if a raptor pounces on you?
shoot it in the face
Non-stop dino orgy.
https://e621.net/posts/1768798
Why are people trying to argue xenos are bullet proof? Nothing in any of movies or extended universe shit I've read has tried to claim that. The only times they were shown to be able to soak sustained fire from small arm was when they were getting hit with rounds that have shit penetration like in alien isolation or the more armored ones like the queen or praetorians, but even they're supposed to go down to AP rounds.