The sun will never set on the Swedish Empire! Behold the grandest warship in Eur- ACK!
The sun will never set on the Swedish Empire! Behold the grandest warship in Eur- ACK!
The sun will never set on the Swedish Empire! Behold the grandest warship in Eur- ACK!
What blew up in Finland this time?
Their king got shot and they are coping hard. Have you not seen the swedish spam over the /k/ papers?
fricking gottem
heh
designed and built by a dutchman btw
Danish hands wrote this.
Also: this looks nothing like the place where it sank, pölseman. Trust a fkn flatlander living in a windy lowland not to know the sheer beauty of an actual archipelago.
Insanely aesthetic hull shape and sailplan, thoughalbeit
It's actually pretty fricking cool how intact her hull was when she was recovered like 300 years later. I've been slowly doing vacations in nordics but yet to get to Sweden, but when I do I've heard the Vasa museum is actually pretty cool to visit. It's apparently the best preserved ship of the era anywhere in the world. I assume it kind of lucked out in terms of the water and sediments it sank in being cold and the right composition to not really rot.
Kind of more an Emperor's New Clothes moment, people knew there were issues but nobody would/could tell the king he was being moronic. I don't think anyone got punished for it even despite a bunch of people dying. Probably they just wanted to bury the entire thing as much as possible as embarrassing.
In the fricking Stockholm in the actual naval shipyard there. Sure it was private contractors but still the government's job to watch that shit.
>I assume it kind of lucked out in terms of the water and sediments it sank in being cold and the right composition to not really rot.
Usually the Baltic Sea being an ecological disaster is a bad thing but archeologists love it.
So where the frick has Stockholm gone in OP's picture? There's no open water to the horizon where Vasa sank.
>I assume it kind of lucked out in terms of the water and sediments it sank in being cold and the right composition to not really rot.
The big thing is the absence of shipworm, not enough salt for them. Without them decomposition of wood is glacially slow.
>The big thing is the absence of shipworm, not enough salt for them. Without them decomposition of wood is glacially slow.
Ah that's right, baltic water by the land is pretty brackish instead right? Also colder.
Thanks for the info anon, definitely will have it on my list then.
>Ah that's right, baltic water by the land is pretty brackish instead right?
The entire Baltic is brackish, there simply isn't much salt water coming in through Öresund. Distance to the shore has little to do with it.
>The entire Baltic is brackish, there simply isn't much salt water coming in through Öresund. Distance to the shore has little to do with it.
Ah neat, must be pretty cool for maritime finds then. Huge body of water with plenty of history, yet pretty ecologically different from open ocean.
Fair enough. Pretty damn cool you've been and yeah he definitely died and got blamed lol, so that's right on.
Stockholm is all bays and small islands with water snaking through the city. You can't see it on the pic, but the path is there.
Yes, there's a path out to open sea, but you'll never see open water like in OP's pic from where Vasa sank (just off of Beckholmen) because the path is very much not straight. The shore shown on the left is way too hilly as well, Djurgården ain't exactly Dover.
>I've heard the Vasa museum is actually pretty cool to visit.
I strongly recommend it. It's a very good museum.
The museum of natural history in Stockholm is very good too if you're interested in animals and stuff.
The historical museum and the army museum in Stockholm are good too.
Although I haven't visited these places in about a decade, so they may have gotten worse since then.
The Army Museum, Vasa Museum and Historical Museum are all still good. I think The Museum of Natural History is also much as it's always been, though it's closed for renovations at the moment as bits of the ceiling were starting to consider a rapid relocation downwards.
I'd also recommend Livrustkammaren (The Royal Armoury), for some nice old arms&armour.
>when I do I've heard the Vasa museum is actually pretty cool to visit
It is, it's very impressive not only from the exhibit but also the architecture and museum in general. Also iirc the designer of the ship killed himself after it sunk because he was so embarrassed and probably would have been executed anyways
>Also iirc the designer of the ship killed himself after it sunk because he was so embarrassed and probably would have been executed anyways
Nah, I think your recollection is a bit off, at least by my recollection anyway. Original ship master did die but it was just sick, he literally died before it went to sea and had passed it on to another dutch guy. Big problem was fundamentally the king had stuck his hand in everything, it was he and gov that approved all measurements and armaments, the dutch were building to that design. Second guy took over well after construction was done and a lot of the design was fixed in place. So while the inquest did go ahead and place blame on the dead master ship builder they couldn't find anyone living to scapegoat, and weren't going to just come out and say "king shouldn't have taken such an active role".
They went to the english afterwards though didn't they? But the english didn't just build to order they actually did their own paper plans and shit and went over it all with clients first, they weren't going to just do any old moronic non-seaman vision that wouldn't survive at sea at least awhile.
There's also that building a new ship class way before any computer simulations was largely an exercise in trial&terror. Some designs worked out, this one didn't.
>trial&terror
>terror
Not sure if typo lol but I'm stealing this
So am I. It's too good not to use.
>just do any old moronic non-seaman vision that wouldn't survive at sea at least awhile [as long as they got paid]
Sounds like very typical swampgerman behavior, all that is missing is the d*tch charging double to salvage it from the harbor and triple to return the salvage contents.
This of course not including interest, tip, or "miscellaneous expenses", as well as emotional duress damages for having their foul schemes and double-dealing brought to light.
>captcha: 0KG0y (I am 100% serious I am e-girlng my ass off)
pic related
It's what a d*tchman says when a Swede asks him to perform contract work for monetary compensation.
>Der heiden know, drop the dyke
I'm an Americhad but bullying the Dutch is hilarious to me. Probably because they're so well off.
Funniest part is how useless they are in the outdoors.
Once in Amsterdam a friend of mine tied a Lapland style hunting dog, essentially a Samoyed, outside the house for a brief moment while it was sub zero (centigrade) outside.
Amsterdamers rang the doorbell as if there was something wrong, massively concerned that the dog would freeze to death, their faces looking at us like we were animal abusers.
I'd like to see those clueless flatlanders react to even a small mountain. They are flippin' useless in any kind of wilderness.
>Once in Amsterdam
there's your problem.
De klant mag dan wel koning zijn, bij klachten geen geld terug!
>Nah, I think your recollection is a bit off
Might well be the case, it's been about 10 years or so since I've been there. I should take another trip to Sweden and visit again. I remember not having much time because I sort of visited the museum on a whim and didn't expect it to be so great and elaborate, so I had to rush a bit. But I was very impressed by how close you could get to the ship.
>It's actually pretty fricking cool how intact her hull was when she was recovered like 300 years later.
Silly trivia: the ceremony was successfully pranked by Finnish students who were passing by the area, the group had purchased a small statue of the Finnish Olympic medal runner Paavo Nurmi, snuck out on the docks at night evading the patrols and made a stealthy dive to deposit the statue onto the deck of the ship. They remained completely undetected and the statue caused some minor confusion for a hot minute.
was this the Swedish hindenburg moment?
>day 190 of the "Special Military Operation"
>Sweden still hasn't captured Copenhagen
ÅHÅHÅHÅHÅHÅHÅHÅ
Feels sad when one realises that there are like 20 instances when the concept of Denmark could have seized to exist.
I do enjoy the time when you tried to be wienery due to a large body of water, but then the ice froze.
Reminds me of that time in my youth when I was bullied by a fast moving quick turning footballer, then he slipped and I got to mash his face into the lawn for what felt like a minute.
Ceased, not seized, my fellow denmark despiser. I won't give them the respect of capitalizing their country's name.
The failure of Scandinavia to unify under one central authority unlike Germany, France, Britain, and Spain, is why the region remains irrelevant to this day
>unlike Germany, France, Britain, and Spain, is why the region remains irrelevant to this day
Considering those examples, I am fine with this
Eternal rest
>Design ship with specific weight in mind
>Put it to sea with double the planned armament
>It tips over and sinks
"How could this happen?"
>nah, she'll be alright mate
This type of thinking is worryingly common all over the planet
That's why no one will remember your ship's name.
Thirdies love to put 4x people on their ferry boats than designed to this day.
Think about it this way: every time your ferry makes it across without sinking you've sold fewer tickets than you could've
This is why airlines always sell about 50% more tickets than there are seats in the plane.
Pretty good lesson in scope creep, and why you shouldn't let clueless people (the king) interfere with important projects just because they happen to be in a position of authority.
just about sums up swedish naval history
how you have that much coastline and get navaly mogged by all your neighbours...
why fight on water when all your enemies are next door on land? we walked to denmark
They had all of finland, part of norway, part of denmark, part of prussia, an african trading colony, and an american colony under their dominion in the mid-17th century. They cant be all that bad, right?
All of that certainly meant a lot of budget had to go into defending the massive land borders.
The 11" guns would probably be rather unwieldy in an archipelagic knife-fight with a destroyer or so, while the 6" guns wouldn't be very scary to bigger ships.
On the other hand defending the coastline is easy with just portable antiship missiles and our current speedboats
We have so many islands for ambush shenanigans that the Soviets shipwrecked their nuclear sub on them by accident
How did the Soviets even manage to frick this up?
The sailor at the helm was getting periscoped by the captain, as is tradition
You can say a lot about modern warships, but at least they don't randomly flip over and sink any more.
Odd but neat little ship. Why did they go for a pre-dreadnought gun setup with both big 11" guns and smaller 6" guns?
Full sized BBs are too unwieldy in shallow coastal Baltic waters and also expensive.
These have enough firepower (11-inch guns) and armor (8-inch) to dissuade anything but full sized BBs from challenging them, which means the would be invader would need to commit a full fleet in shallow waters.
If the Vasa hadn't sank, could it have impacted history in such a way that Sweden might have played a greater role in world history?
>Vasa never sinks
>Ushers in a great swedish expansion
>Sweden ends up winning the Great Northern War
>Russia is annexed into greater Sweden
>145 million russians get pacified and civilized through access to Saab, cheap functional furniture and indoor plumbing
Probably not.
Swedish naval incompetence was something else man...
>Swedish king, Gustav III sent the battle fleet under his brother Prince Karl to eliminate Admiral Chichagov's Russian squadron, which had wintered in the harbor at Reval.
>Prince Karl approached Reval with 26 ships of the line and large frigates mounting a combined 1,680 cannon. Chichagov, preparing to meet the enemy in the harbour, formed a battle line made up of 9 ships of the line and the frigate Venus.
>Prince Karl's fleet entered the harbour and started passing by the anchored Russian ships.
>Due to strong winds and inaccurate aiming, most Swedish projectiles ricocheted past their targets, while the Russian ships that were anchored within the protected area of the harbour were able to use their guns much more effectively. The ship of the Swedish prince, which could not be brought into the wind due to a rigging problem, was forced to drift towards the Russian ship Rostislav and received major damage from grapeshot. The 64-gun battleship Prins Karl, fifteenth of the Swedish line, lost her rudder to Russian fire and had to surrender.
>After a two-hour artillery duel he ordered his ships to break off the engagement; hence the last ten ships of Swedish line veered off without firing a shot. The Swedish ship Riksens Ständer hit the reef north of Aegna (Wolf) island. Swedish attempts to dislodge her failed, and the Swedes were forced to burn her so that the Russians would be unable to take her.
>get the jump on your enemy with a more than 2 to 1 advantage AND they are fricking anchored in port
>still get btfo
>by fricking russians of all people
Had we figured out how to fight on the sea, northern Europe would 100% look much different today.
Every great Swedish victory begins with the destruction of the swedish navy.
Also, the army is better at naval warfare than the navy, see Svensksund
no. One big ship of the line more or less wasn't going to swing the balance in the baltic
It seems my superiority has led to some controversy.
Don't make me come over there
I'll beat you with a stick if you do, Sven.
Fake, Denmark doesn't have forests or woodlands.
Vasa was an inside job tbh
>lead cannons dont flip wooden ships
Listen. It was a huge and awkward blunder for us.
But the Vasa museum is amazing. If you ever are in Stockholm, you have to go and see it.
>people on /k/
>going outside
Eeh
a lot of danes in this thread
and finns
and polacks
and germans
and russians
i smell you
How do I smell :3
with your nose
Oh look, last white swede
An age of sail thread? Posting a frigate that makes Anglo frigate captains seethe to this day
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwedentrunk
VGGHHHHH BRING IT BACK