For millenniums the most effective hunting weapon in the world was the bow and arrow. Traditional bow designs were generally accurate enough for small game at 10-15 yards. For larger game like deer, a clean heart shot could be made at 20-25 yards, and if a perfect broadside double lung shot is presented in good conditions, and the hunter is willing to patiently track the animal after the shot, a skilled archer could kill deer at as much as 40-50 yards. Larger game like moose and elk could also be taken, but great care must be made with shot placement, as many follow up shots as possible must be made, and the tracking could be long.
This is the EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE PARAMETER as a modern full size semiautomatic pistol in common calibers. The biggest differences being that the trajectory is virtually flat within it's accurate range, wind drift is negligible, rate of fire is drastically faster, penetration against bone is more reliable, velocity is so high that it's impossible for any animal to dodge the projectile, and the weapon while roughly the same weight as a bow is so compact that it can be worn hands-free on the person and conform to his body and allow him to move with even greater stealth. Hunting with a modern pistol is therefore essentially like hunting with any of your ancestors weapons but with cheat codes turned on.
This concept has been common sense to me for over a decade and it's incredible that this subject isn't discussed more in survival/SHTF circles. Feeling the need for any kind of rifle suggests that you think that having greater target engagement potential than 99.9% of your ancestors is a basic requirement for mere survival. In my opinion that is extremely pessimistic. Personally, there's no way in fricking Hell that I'm adding 5-7 pounds to my load out just to compensate for a lack of training and skill with pistols. If you can't kill game with a modern handgun with optics then, I'm sorry, but you fricking suck BIG time.
lol 9mm
No animal in the world can live so long with a .35 caliber hole it's chest that you can't easily catch up with it.
This but the pistol has a folding stock, an actual precision-capable trigger and a low magnification optic. Weighs 3.5 lbs.
Suppressor optional.
Too bad they're discontinued
>April 2024
They're back, sort of.
Your weight is wrong too. 3.5# is the weight of a basic G2 contender pistol. With a folding stock and optics and suppressor you are surely looking at at least 5lbs 12 ounces.
>runs out of ammo
>components break and there are no replacements
Lmao
Also it's unironically easier to aim a bow than a pistol at 20 yards.
>runs out of ammo
>components break and there are no replacements
Both are true for your bow, too.
>but actually I can just bushcraft everything I need for my bow in the wild like in Minecraft
Cool, but that's equally as true after a gun is no longer usable.
Not even OP btw, he'll stop being a homosexual after he posts any game he has managed to kill with his Glock.
>>runs out of ammo
break and there are no replacements
>Both are true for your bow, too.
Wow, how did ancient hunter-gatherers get by when they ran out of arrows and the arrow store was closed?
They spent all day making one fricking arrow.
Do you have ANY experience making bows and arrows from natural resources? I was obsessed with this in highschool and became very good at it. I owned every volume of the Bowyer's Bible and studied countless other resources. I probably made over 20 bows. Making arrows is such a pain in the ass that I would literally rather just try my luck hitting deer in the head with a .22 pistol. It's a useful skill to have obviously, but there's no way in Hell that I'm going to deliberately set myself up to rely on that as a primary strategy for maintaining a supply of hunting ammunition.
> There's enough 9mm ammo in storage around the world to fight two world wars with only pistols even if production stopped right now
> A Glock can run 50,000 rounds with less than $50 worth of replacement parts that weigh less than 6 ounces
It's okay that you don't understand anything about firearms, most people don't, but at least watch some videos on their basic operation so you can handle one safely if you ever encounter one.
Fair point about the glock longevity, but i doubt that replacement parts would readily be available, regardless of how cheap and lightweight they are right now. Same principle goes for ammo, it doesnt matter if there are billions of rounds in storage if you wont have access to them
That's why you buy them now fricktard. Better yet just get 2-3 spare Glocks. Actually don't bother, you'll find plenty on dead bodies.
Ammo is actually a much bigger issue with bows because arrows are stupidly easy to lose and break in the woods and creating accurate and consistent arrows from scratch is extremely time consuming and requires alot of skill. In some places you're almost as likely to find Bigfoot as to find a 32" sapling that can straightened enough to be usable as an arrow. A crossbow would actually be much more practical just for this reason alone, you can use much shorter bolts.
>i do things the stupidest way possible
Enjoy your LARP while in real life you get BTFO from 800 meters by some boomer with a mosin, in minecraft. If you can't kill game with a toothbrush you fricking suck BIG time.
I've never lived anywhere where it was possible to see anything from more than 100 yards
Normal size lunch box.
What could be inside it?
Freedom, that's what's in it.
I like your thinking. Personally though I can't shoot those that much better than the G34, not really worth the weight in my eyes. The full size PC carbine is excellent and actually gives a decent performance boost to 9mm but I'm on the fence as to whether it's too large and heavy for my loadout.
With the G34 MOS I can keep all of my shots on a playing card at 25 yards with 124 grain FMJ and over 90% of them within a 10" circle at 100 yards. That basically covers any kind of realistic engagement hunting or combat wise in the eastern mountains. It's hard for me to justify a heavier weapon system. I'd rather just carry more mags.
I don't actually carry that Ruger when innawoods, I just like showing it off because how many mags and everything you can get into a small package. I think every one should carry innawoods, even if it's just a pistol, which in all honestly will handle majority of your problems. Seeing as I don't care about what other people think and I love to LARP, I carry this with me, also wearing a haley strategic micro chest rig, alongside with a S&W M&P 2.0 4" compact pistol.
I like to blow chipmunks to smithereens with hollowpoints
You're doing God's work.
>Expensive optic
>Tacticool compensator
>Crystal clean brass deflector
Many such cases.
It's over gassed, brass doesn't really touch the brass deflector because of that. Here's the BCG.
Also the comp I got is to piss ppl off when I shoot next to them.
Like I said, it barely touches the brass deflecter, it instead hits the edge.
Lol. That's your buffer, not how gassed it is. And it still looks like you've shot it once and never cleaned it.
You're either trolling, or don't know shit about guns. I'll leave it at that.
Kek. No kid, you don't know shit.
You post no gun, yet you want to be a critic... I'm also 37 btw, I wish I was a kid.
My vote is for "doesn't know shit"
Do Americans really?
I want to live in the US precisely so that I can go PrepHole and own guns but there is something really fricking gay about grown men walking around the woods dressed as operators with assault rifles. I wouldn't want my kids going PrepHole neither
How do you practice field tactics and survival skills without being accused of "larping" by some dumb piece of shit who will die in five seconds as soon as the grocery stores are empty?
>while you were shopping at the grocery store, I studied the blade
this is what you sound like
> Everyone who does anything is larping, you aren't allowed to do anything except walk around with a neon red pack filled with only a REI meals and a sleeping pad and photograph scenic views at a predetermined overlook. Anything else is larping.
That's what you sound like.
>That's what you sound like
lmao get a life, nerd.
Nobody who makes those types of statements can ever describe what kinds of skills they have. I have made blacksmithing forges from stones and made my own charcoal and forged knives from railroad spikes and old files. I have tanned hides with brains. I have turned whole trees over two feet in diameter into finished piles of firewood with only hatchets weighing less than 24 ounces. I can hit the kill zone of a whitetail at 100 yards with a concealed carry pistol. I've made livable structures over ten years ago with only pack equipment that are still standing today. I know you aren't allowed to own anything other than plastic sporks in your country and you don't have any nature left or affordable land to practice any skill development, but you're better off just remaining silent if you have nothing to contribute to conversations between men who do something other than play videogames and watch Black person ball. You're just embarrassing yourself and reinforcing your own negative mindset.
No one who writes out their whole resume of manly skills to show off to anonymous buttholes on a Georgian bird grooming forum should expect to be taken seriously. Opinion discarded
You will never take anything seriously. That was literally my point.
>the most effective hunting weapon in the world was the bow and arrow
I would highly disagree, for power a sling is roughly comparable to a 9mm, all the way up to a .45 dependent on projectile and design
Then we switch gears entirely and move to the atlatl, which, not to sound like a wuss, made one, it buried and arrow 1/3 the way in an oak tree, and this used to kill mammoths, I'm not fricking with that
Sure aiming and practice is a factor, but just from shear physics, slings and atlatls can become real fricking scary real fast
>I would highly disagree, for power a sling is roughly comparable to a 9mm, all the way up to a .45 dependent on projectile and design
This is the most asinine statement I've ever heard. A sling does not even have the penetration of a 22.
penetration, no, force on impact, yes
a sling used by someone who knows what they are doing. the size of the projectile is way bigger
You could never kill someone with a sling without a direct head shot. Energy doesn't tell you what a projectile is actually capable of. A semi truck hitting you at 2 mph has more energy than a 50BMG. No slinger in history could propel a stone so as to match the real-world effectiveness of even a .380 ACP. You have absolutely no understanding of terminal ballistics. Slings were mainly just used to disrupt formations and stop people from climbing walls, and to deter wild animals from sheep herds.
>You could never kill someone with a sling without a direct head shot
all those words, no point
boy, if you hit someone with a stone going 30/ 35meters a second, it will be a serious injury, its a projectile, twice the size of a musket ball.
not dead on the spot sure, but frick man, remember how fragile humans actually are
Yeah, you'd have some broken ribs and be on the ground gasping for air if you weren't wearing some kind of basic armor that even a shepherd could manufacturer himself from leather.
With a 22 short to the lungs or heart or surrounding arteries you will fricking DIE without immediate medical care.
>basic armor
nice job moving the goal post
>With a 22 short to the lungs or heart or surrounding arteries you will fricking DIE
heart, takes a few minutes, perforated lung, nah, real life isn't counterstrike son
impact trauma can be way waaay worse the penetration
You have no reading comprehension and comprehension of wound trauma
i am, pretty confident that know,
i know what trauma is.
T. Ambulance driver
Then you should know that a rock throwing aid is not comparable to ANY bullet. Only a complete fool with no experience whatsoever would equate them.
>reading comprehension
He's dumb but you're worse
I use rifles, shotguns, archery equipment, handguns, and traps to take animals for food. It's mostly just fun and games, but if SHTF my traps (and fishing gear) would feed me.
Sure, you could kill a moose or deer all day with 9mm out of a handgun. Drunk poachers do that shit all the time. I'll give you that the G34 is a really nice platform, I usually don't jive with Glocks but I shoot great with it. I've never used an optic on one but they usually make the experience even better.
What's not really clear in your post is what you're planning on doing with your pistol. Are you carrying it while out hiking, in case you get lost and have to hunt or defend yourself? Are you planning to sit in a tree stand in deer season with it? Or for the end of the world? SHTF scenarios are also usually treated like a monolithic concept, which is dumb.
The other thing is in reality in an actual societal collapse, if you live in the US anywhere other than the middle of nowhere, suddenly everyone has the same idea as you and is out in the woods with their guns looking for deer and squirrels. Small game is going to matter a lot, and 9mm is pretty destructive on a squirrel, which can be a full meal. If your main SHTF concern is hunting, I would genuinely say a .22 rifle is your best bet. A 10/22 weighs 5 lbs, which is not a lot if you're reasonably fit, especially with a sling or secured to a pack. With good shot placement and/or follow up shots, which is easier at longer ranges with a rifle, you can drop anything. Our ancestors who used bows struggled non-stop to survive, why would you want to not give yourself advantages? .22 is also stupidly cheap, light and small enough to carry tons of it, and ubiquitous enough to scavenge or buy anywhere on earth. If you're just hiking though and want to have the option, especially somewhere that having a rifle would stand out, a pistol is a fine option. Nothing ever happens, anyway
>What's not really clear in your post is what you're planning on doing with your pistol.
A survival weapon is for any scenario, not a specific scenario. Therefore the most important criteria is that it be light and compact enough to transform into a permanent extension of your body, just like claws or talons. Engaging small targets at <20 yards, large targets at <50, and inflicting casualties at <100 becomes a BASIC ability, as though you could do it with your bare hands. No anticipation of specific future events or material preparation whatsoever is required to have these abilities. The compression of potential abilities into basic abilities through high skill development with ultralight and versatile EDC gear is possibly the single most critical factor in survival preparedness.
>if you live in the US anywhere other than the middle of nowhere, suddenly everyone has the same idea as you
That's why you live in the middle of nowhere or have a plan to get there even if automobile travel becomes impossible and prepare to defend yourself along the way. You don't become a passive Holodomor/potato famine victim by having no mobility due to being reliant upon things that you can't physically bring with you. Either move now or get ready to ride a bicycle 900 miles through the mountains while living out of a backpack and avoiding checkpoints.
>9mm is pretty destructive on a squirrel
I assure you it's not, in the event I'm so desperate as to waste any kind of ammunition on a squirrel. 110 conibear traps are vastly more useful for small game than firearms and only weigh 11 ounces each.
>A 10/22
That would be the top competitor to a 9mm pistol in this arena. I favor the pistol due to experience.
>struggled non-stop to survive
They spent the majority of their time in recreation.
Do you live in the middle of nowhere, anon?
I also assure you, as someone who has blasted squirrels with a variety of calibers, that you're going to lose a good amount of useful meat if you hit it anywhere other than right in the noggin. inb4 "I'll just headshot them with my pistol". Traps are a decent option, but not nearly as productive as you might think. I don't have a trapping license, but have gone along with friends. It would be difficult to survive from them.
Anyway, when I go innawoods (on my family's land so no running into urbanites) I like having both my 10/22 and my compact 9mm. With a pack filled with everything I need to camp for a bit, it's no problem.
I wish I noticed this was a purely larp thread sooner though. "Having a plan to get to the middle of nowhere" is moronic if you aren't already there. Leaving the area where you (hopefully) have friends, all your resources, etc. to go bike to the mountains and live off the land is a larp, unfortunately. It sure sounds like you're planning to do this alone, too, which makes the "our ancestors recreated all the time and had fun" thing dumb. Being in a group makes the hunter-gatherer life possible, otherwise you're going to be scrounging 24/7 to do all the work on your own. Not to mention hunter-gatherers have a life expectancy of 20-40 maximum. You may be thinking of early agricultural societies.
>Do you live in the middle of nowhere, anon?
I live exactly where I want to. Close enough to nowhere, yet simultaneously close enough to things that I enjoy doing.
>that you're going to lose a good amount of useful meat
We'll just have to disagree. 9mm FMJ is not that bad on small game. It's like a .22mag.
>but not nearly as productive as you might think
I know from experience that they are worth their weight more than 22 ammo at the very least. I have trapped squirrels in as little as 15 minutes from setting them.
>It would be difficult to survive from them.
That's why I never suggested attempting to live off squirrels.
>I like having both my 10/22 and my compact 9mm.
My adventures and training take place exclusively on public land. Across over a dozen different states. Concealability is always a factor for me. Always.
>live off the land is a larp
I'll live off anything I need to for as long as I need to. The land. Storable dry food. Supplies raided from vacant houses or camps. Trash. Human flesh. That's how bears live and they're the most successful large mammal in North America.
>our ancestors recreated all the time
I didn't say I was going to.
>you're going to be scrounging 24/7 to do all the work on your own
Yes, for as long as necessary.
>Not to mention hunter-gatherers have a life expectancy of 20-40 maximum.
Except when it's 80-120 years like the ones we have actual contemporary experience with.
>Not to mention hunter-gatherers have a life expectancy of 20-40 maximum
You're repeating myths that were debunked years ago that include infant mortality. With Native Americans, one of the most well attested characteristics reported frequently by early European settlers was their health, stature, fitness, and longevity compared to themselves. People getting exercise and living off organic meat and vegetables don't magically drop dead at 40.
>Reddit spacing and survivalist larp
You are the same larper guy as
, aren't you?
> larp
> larp
> larp
> larp
> larp
> everything I don't have the motivation or circumstances to get into is larping
>why would you want to not give yourself advantages?
I've already listed several critical advantages of a pistol over a bow. What I didn't list was concealability, which will be vital to avoiding conflict in any disaster situation, and the fact that it's so effective in close quarters combat that it negates the need for a specialized weapon such as a sword, thus lightening your load even further.
>22 is also stupidly cheap, light and small enough to carry tons of it
This doesn't compensate for the increased weapon weight. You also end up using way more ammo, especially on game like turkey and water fowl where headshots are rarely a possibility
>and ubiquitous enough to scavenge or buy anywhere on earth.
Everyone is carrying Glock mags
>for milleniums
*millenia
>pic of homosexual glock
thread disregarded
sage