pretty much. Imo it's unnecessarily heavy tho. I hope our army complements it with pic related. Fully remote controlled howitzer, same as on the PzH 2000, on a way lighter truck. Probably cheaper too.
the remote howitzer module is from KMW and is called RCH 155, it's been fitted on various other platforms too (M270, Boxer, Leo 2 chassis)
the truck is some Iveco truck with an armored cabin
The weight is necessary due to armor and the armor has already shown it's worth because russkis tried to take them out for a propaganda win and couldn't.
are you sure? Afaik PzH 2000 armor isn't that strong, I doubt it would survive a direct hit
an armored truck is probably enough against indirect splinters while being way lighter
A direct hit of what?
And since counter battery fire is the main concern more armor = greater safety closer to an explosion.
If you put just as much armor on a truck it is just as safe, of you don't then it isn't. If a direct hit is all you have to worry about then you're quite safe.
direct hit of 152mm
and an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too, but idk, the PzH would definitely survive it better
not sure the extra armor is a worthy tradeoff for all the extra weight
>and an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too, but idk, the PzH would definitely survive it better >not sure the extra armor is a worthy tradeoff for all the extra weight
The machine was designed with soviet equipment in mind, so it's safe to assume that they didn't just choose a random armor thickness.
152mm is quite the payload.
There are no armored vehicles that withstand a direct hit from a 155mm or god forbid a 203mm. Being able to resist artillery splinters, airburst, and small arms is more than plenty for the mission of a SPG.
The weight is necessary due to armor and the armor has already shown it's worth because russkis tried to take them out for a propaganda win and couldn't.
Why cripple, the defend what they stand for in Ukraine. The would not remain to be themselves if they did not. Putain and his thugs are George Soros's slav(e)s.
All PzH2000 delivered are on Leo2 i think, speed, agility, armour and logistics are the pros.
the frick am I watching?
Freedom condensed. SMArt 155 came down on a parachute, found its hard target and destroyed it.
It's probably the most capable one out there but it's also 10t heavier and at least 50% more expensive than the likes of K9 or Krab. Doesn't really sound worth it.
It was worth it in Kunduz. Saved probably thousands of allies.
>Right, as is Cesar
Caesars would have been lost in the fire the russkis tried to get the PzH2ks with. >All PzH2000 delivered are on Leo2 i think, speed, agility, armour and logistics are the pros.
What? No
They are made for the PzH2k.
I don't understand why you think it has to be based on a tank.
To be completely precise, it is a chassis derived from a Leopard 2. Heavily changed internally and externally, with much of the armor stripped down but not quite done away with entirely. Some parts are still interchangeable between vehicles, such as the tracks and other externals in order to help with logistics.
Same problem as with much other German equipment. It's a fricking fantastic, precision-engineered deathmachine. It's also expensive and only manufactured in low numbers.
direct hit of 152mm
and an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too, but idk, the PzH would definitely survive it better
not sure the extra armor is a worthy tradeoff for all the extra weight
[...]
SMArt 155 putting Russkis to sleep
It's probably the most capable one out there but it's also 10t heavier and at least 50% more expensive than the likes of K9 or Krab. Doesn't really sound worth it.
Why haven't any k9's been sent to Ukraine? Seems weird considering they're the most numerous self propelled howitzer in active service. asiatics don't give a shit I guess?
Anon, there are currently more than 1700 K9 built and it comprises more than half of the total 155mm sph market. >As of 2022, the K9 series has had a 69% share of the global 155 mm self-propelled howitzer market since the year 2000.[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K9_Thunder
Because they're all busy fending off nork hordes from bombarding the capital. The Korean peninsula has one of the heaviest artillery build ups in the world.
that 17mil figure is for the fully kitted with the automatic CB radar integration and the new data link with ADLER2 while the 9mil is the standart export figure. phz2000 is still more expensive but not by that much.
Im having a tough time finding anything on google about that system, anyone have a link? Sounds like quite a gamechanger if they have managed CB down to that level
there are almost no sources. (has a german wikipedia https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillerie-,_Daten-,_Lage-_und_Einsatz-Rechnerverbund)
its a battle management system for artillery and was build as an open architecture so all kinds of CB radars like COBRA have a direct datalink and CB fire missions are calculated automatically.
There are a lot more 'little' variables for why the PZH2000 is objectively the superior vehicle to the K9. >Ammo count: K9 only carries 48 rounds, the PZH2000 carries 60, which is a 25% difference >Operational Range: K9 has 360km, PZH has 420km, 17~% difference >Range of rounds: K9's base bleed rounds reach a max 40km, RAP reach 54km, while on the PZH base bleed reach 47km, RAP 67km, making 17% and 24% difference, respectively >Rate of fire: K9 maxes out at 6 rounds per minute, PZH can go as high as 13 rounds per minute and averages out at 9. Meaning that PZH has a base superiority of 50% and can go as high as 116% compared to the K9.
All these factors combined produce a vehicle that can remain operational longer, doesn't have to stop for reloads as frequently and has better protection against counter-battery fire. A single PZH helmed by a well-trained crew can put out more shots than two K9s combined can.
of rounds: K9's base bleed rounds reach a max 40km, RAP reach 54km, while on the PZH base bleed reach 47km, RAP 67km, making 17% and 24% difference, respectively
You again, with your unsourced bias.
>While you can have 2 K9 for the price of one PzH.
People repeat that a lot but that's not actually true. See
that 17mil figure is for the fully kitted with the automatic CB radar integration and the new data link with ADLER2 while the 9mil is the standart export figure. phz2000 is still more expensive but not by that much.
You can make it more expensive if you go for the pimped out Gucci version. But you don't have to and the basic version is still noticeably better.
Anon base K9 costs 3-4 million $. Fully decked out newest Krabs with drones and other shit were sold to ukies for around 8 million $. Yes you can easily have 2 of those per 1 PzH.
>rate of fire 6/min
Anon, the number could vary depending on the discipline of the crews. AS90 with the same semi-autoloader has a record of throwing 3 rounds in 10 seconds. But it's unnecessary unless you want to experience a cook off.
>While you can have 2 K9 for the price of one PzH.
People repeat that a lot but that's not actually true. See [...]
You can make it more expensive if you go for the pimped out Gucci version. But you don't have to and the basic version is still noticeably better.
K9 with its latest A2 upgrade including a fully automated turret would still beat Pzh in pricing. The sheer number of K9 that's been built enables it to have an economy of scale unparalleled by others. Also the existance of the K10, the dedicated armoured resupply vehicle for K9, is one of the reason why it got selected over the Pzh by the Aussies.
italian ones do
https://www.difesaonline.it/mondo-militare/lesercito-italiano-acquisisce-il-munizionamento-vulcano
btw I made a mistake, 120km is the range when fired from the 127/64 naval cannon, range when in use with the 155 is about 100km
How come americans aren't counter-shilling their own SPG systems whenever these threads pop up? Is the M109 really that far behind or is it because fish people like to pronounce german words all the time
the M109 is way behind the PzH 2000, it was replaced by the PzH in the German and some other militaries. The Amis are working on a new SPH tho and they have world class rocket artillery, so no reason to get butthurt.
The M109 is ancient and the last two programs meant to replace the damn thing got shitcanned by the early 2000s. We only managed to get the thing updated to a barely-usable configuration by tricking Congress into funding "upgrades" to replace the turret (M109A6) and then the hull (M109A7). ERCA coming online in the next few years will help remedy the problem a bit but it'll take at least a decade for those to reach significant numbers.
It's supposed to be able to serve as an SPG in a pinch as well. Its armor is capable of standing up to the most common autocannons. Crews are trained to be able to conduct direct fire almost as much as indirect fire. That protection combined with the vehicle's ability to 'dash' surprisingly quickly produces a nightmare for any tank-hunter and IFV trying to hunt it down.
Only in combination with MARS, COBRA and SMArt 155. Which have been delivered and wreak havoc right now, as intended by Kraus-Maffei and Rheinmetall.
Waiting for US to deliver 300 miles HIMARS.
People who know more than me, how do the krautkannonen, /k/rab and Paladin all differ from each other? In what meaningful ways? In what ways that have the most downrange effect?
No shit sherlock
And they are still being destroyed and ABANDOONED left and right in the Ukraine.
based on Russian data Ukraine operates minus 8 Pzh2000 right now
Not to mention that Russia has shot down over 1000 of the 400 TB2's ever produced
Russian has zero losses according to reliable sources.
Just like the ghost of himars
Russia still has zero proof that they destroyed even one western SPA.
There's been a video of a paladin having a meltdown
proofs?
not every 109 is a paladin, like one or two M109GNs have been lost and these are fricking ancient.
pretty much. Imo it's unnecessarily heavy tho. I hope our army complements it with pic related. Fully remote controlled howitzer, same as on the PzH 2000, on a way lighter truck. Probably cheaper too.
whats this called? I wanna google it
It's in the file name: AGM Iveco 8x8
the remote howitzer module is from KMW and is called RCH 155, it's been fitted on various other platforms too (M270, Boxer, Leo 2 chassis)
the truck is some Iveco truck with an armored cabin
Leo 2 chassis?
yeah
don't see what the point would be tho, probably just to prove feasability
Can they be mounted on ships?
PzH and derivatives can fire Vulcano ammos which were originally intended as a naval shell.
Being protected well has saved some Ukrainian asses already based on the Bundeswehr.
Also he just confirmed SMArt 155 deliveries.
are you sure? Afaik PzH 2000 armor isn't that strong, I doubt it would survive a direct hit
an armored truck is probably enough against indirect splinters while being way lighter
A direct hit of what?
And since counter battery fire is the main concern more armor = greater safety closer to an explosion.
If you put just as much armor on a truck it is just as safe, of you don't then it isn't. If a direct hit is all you have to worry about then you're quite safe.
direct hit of 152mm
and an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too, but idk, the PzH would definitely survive it better
not sure the extra armor is a worthy tradeoff for all the extra weight
SMArt 155 putting Russkis to sleep
>and an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too, but idk, the PzH would definitely survive it better
>not sure the extra armor is a worthy tradeoff for all the extra weight
The machine was designed with soviet equipment in mind, so it's safe to assume that they didn't just choose a random armor thickness.
152mm is quite the payload.
It was confirmed as a French-Swedish 155mm BONUS round.
Only France is providing such shells and proximity fuses, at least according to ukies.
Not a BONUS, those use winglets and you can see the small SMArt parachute.
Wouldn't that be a reflection off the winglets? They're shiny
Not at that resolution, too small and attached to the submunition itself.
It wasn't clear initially, but yes later confirmed as a SMArt 155
https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1544036350835494917
Calm your breasts krauts, don't boil children over this.
>It was confirmed as a French-Swedish 155mm BONUS round.
Why do you lie
>an armored truck is probably enough to survive an indirect 152mm blast too
see https://imgur.com/gallery/gIjCo
Arty shells even frick MBTs, armored trucks are no protection.
Thanq for informing the enemy. They will soon throw that shit back on us
Yeah they should stand still below the submunition so they can catch it as it comes down.
It's meant to protect you against shrapnel and cluster submunitions. A normal truck would get critically damaged by that.
There are no armored vehicles that withstand a direct hit from a 155mm or god forbid a 203mm. Being able to resist artillery splinters, airburst, and small arms is more than plenty for the mission of a SPG.
The weight is necessary due to armor and the armor has already shown it's worth because russkis tried to take them out for a propaganda win and couldn't.
>I hope our army complements it with pic related
Hungary I assume?
If only Germany wasn't such a cheapskate on the actual numbers sent.
They don't have that many, no reasonable person would expect a nation to cripple itself for Ukraine, no nation outside of canada does that.
Why cripple, the defend what they stand for in Ukraine. The would not remain to be themselves if they did not. Putain and his thugs are George Soros's slav(e)s.
Yes, it's somewhat better than Krab, but both are doing their job absolutely splendidly from what I've heard.
Right, as is Cesar and even 777.
All PzH2000 delivered are on Leo2 i think, speed, agility, armour and logistics are the pros.
Freedom condensed. SMArt 155 came down on a parachute, found its hard target and destroyed it.
It was worth it in Kunduz. Saved probably thousands of allies.
>Right, as is Cesar
Caesars would have been lost in the fire the russkis tried to get the PzH2ks with.
>All PzH2000 delivered are on Leo2 i think, speed, agility, armour and logistics are the pros.
What? No
Then explain what the chassis are.
They are made for the PzH2k.
I don't understand why you think it has to be based on a tank.
To be completely precise, it is a chassis derived from a Leopard 2. Heavily changed internally and externally, with much of the armor stripped down but not quite done away with entirely. Some parts are still interchangeable between vehicles, such as the tracks and other externals in order to help with logistics.
>All PzH2000 delivered are on Leo2 i think, speed, agility, armour and logistics are the pros.
Lol no
Same problem as with much other German equipment. It's a fricking fantastic, precision-engineered deathmachine. It's also expensive and only manufactured in low numbers.
Xaxaxa silly man of West, do you know Puccia has lasers?
Soon Panzerhaubitze will travel to uralvagonzavod for exploring just like the two Caesar howitzers previously
>Soon Panzerhaubitze will travel to uralvagonz-ACK
the frick am I watching?
cutting edge cyka-vision
SMArt 155
Do we know what exactly got hit there?
Pantsir afaik
If it's so good why did they only made like 20, checkmate atheists
They are expensive as frick and complicated.
Paladin is better
no it's not
US is working on a new Paladin version that might be better but the current Paladin is worse than the PzH
those howitzer trucks (besides the French CAESAR) are armored tho
Yeah, but not as armoured as a Leo2 hull.
It's probably the most capable one out there but it's also 10t heavier and at least 50% more expensive than the likes of K9 or Krab. Doesn't really sound worth it.
One PzH2000 costs 17 million euro. One K9 costs 9 million $. Over two times higher price to have 9 second 3 round burst instead of 15s.
Why haven't any k9's been sent to Ukraine? Seems weird considering they're the most numerous self propelled howitzer in active service. asiatics don't give a shit I guess?
Krabs are basically K9 and they got 18 with 56 more on order.
Anon, there are currently more than 1700 K9 built and it comprises more than half of the total 155mm sph market.
>As of 2022, the K9 series has had a 69% share of the global 155 mm self-propelled howitzer market since the year 2000.[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/K9_Thunder
Because they're all busy fending off nork hordes from bombarding the capital. The Korean peninsula has one of the heaviest artillery build ups in the world.
>One PzH2000 costs 17 million euro. One K9 costs 9 million $. Over two times higher price
I thought chink shills were supposed to be good at math?
that 17mil figure is for the fully kitted with the automatic CB radar integration and the new data link with ADLER2 while the 9mil is the standart export figure. phz2000 is still more expensive but not by that much.
>the automatic CB radar integration
The whatnow? Where on the Pzh is this mounted?
its part of the ADLER2+ system afaik
Im having a tough time finding anything on google about that system, anyone have a link? Sounds like quite a gamechanger if they have managed CB down to that level
there are almost no sources. (has a german wikipedia https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillerie-,_Daten-,_Lage-_und_Einsatz-Rechnerverbund)
its a battle management system for artillery and was build as an open architecture so all kinds of CB radars like COBRA have a direct datalink and CB fire missions are calculated automatically.
Thanks anon
There are a lot more 'little' variables for why the PZH2000 is objectively the superior vehicle to the K9.
>Ammo count: K9 only carries 48 rounds, the PZH2000 carries 60, which is a 25% difference
>Operational Range: K9 has 360km, PZH has 420km, 17~% difference
>Range of rounds: K9's base bleed rounds reach a max 40km, RAP reach 54km, while on the PZH base bleed reach 47km, RAP 67km, making 17% and 24% difference, respectively
>Rate of fire: K9 maxes out at 6 rounds per minute, PZH can go as high as 13 rounds per minute and averages out at 9. Meaning that PZH has a base superiority of 50% and can go as high as 116% compared to the K9.
All these factors combined produce a vehicle that can remain operational longer, doesn't have to stop for reloads as frequently and has better protection against counter-battery fire. A single PZH helmed by a well-trained crew can put out more shots than two K9s combined can.
of rounds: K9's base bleed rounds reach a max 40km, RAP reach 54km, while on the PZH base bleed reach 47km, RAP 67km, making 17% and 24% difference, respectively
You again, with your unsourced bias.
PzH is more capable but it's not 50% more capable not to mention 100%. While you can have 2 K9 for the price of one PzH.
>While you can have 2 K9 for the price of one PzH.
People repeat that a lot but that's not actually true. See
You can make it more expensive if you go for the pimped out Gucci version. But you don't have to and the basic version is still noticeably better.
Anon base K9 costs 3-4 million $. Fully decked out newest Krabs with drones and other shit were sold to ukies for around 8 million $. Yes you can easily have 2 of those per 1 PzH.
>rate of fire 6/min
Anon, the number could vary depending on the discipline of the crews. AS90 with the same semi-autoloader has a record of throwing 3 rounds in 10 seconds. But it's unnecessary unless you want to experience a cook off.
K9 with its latest A2 upgrade including a fully automated turret would still beat Pzh in pricing. The sheer number of K9 that's been built enables it to have an economy of scale unparalleled by others. Also the existance of the K10, the dedicated armoured resupply vehicle for K9, is one of the reason why it got selected over the Pzh by the Aussies.
don’t forget about the 120km range for the VULCANO ammo already in use with the PzH2000
>already in use with the PzH2000?
?
italian ones do
https://www.difesaonline.it/mondo-militare/lesercito-italiano-acquisisce-il-munizionamento-vulcano
btw I made a mistake, 120km is the range when fired from the 127/64 naval cannon, range when in use with the 155 is about 100km
Why do naval cannons have higher pressure than land based ones?
longer and thicker barrel, larger breech
Thanq for publishing the competitive advantage. Now Soro's monkeys can compute that into their tactics
How come americans aren't counter-shilling their own SPG systems whenever these threads pop up? Is the M109 really that far behind or is it because fish people like to pronounce german words all the time
the M109 is way behind the PzH 2000, it was replaced by the PzH in the German and some other militaries. The Amis are working on a new SPH tho and they have world class rocket artillery, so no reason to get butthurt.
Their M109 might be outdated but they still make some fine Rocket Artillery. Wish we also got some HIMARS.
because like everything else good in the united states, xm2000 was sacrificed for the iraq war
The M109 is ancient and the last two programs meant to replace the damn thing got shitcanned by the early 2000s. We only managed to get the thing updated to a barely-usable configuration by tricking Congress into funding "upgrades" to replace the turret (M109A6) and then the hull (M109A7). ERCA coming online in the next few years will help remedy the problem a bit but it'll take at least a decade for those to reach significant numbers.
American military is planes, drones and MLRSboos these days. So they kinda don't care about tubes any more.
What is it with Germans and ridiculously large armored weapons?
It's supposed to be able to serve as an SPG in a pinch as well. Its armor is capable of standing up to the most common autocannons. Crews are trained to be able to conduct direct fire almost as much as indirect fire. That protection combined with the vehicle's ability to 'dash' surprisingly quickly produces a nightmare for any tank-hunter and IFV trying to hunt it down.
>Zey vill all be crushed beneath our mighty armoured treads!
>HEIL DEUTSCHLAND!
Nope, frick the monkey invasion and corrupt monkeys in our system, that is all
Only in combination with MARS, COBRA and SMArt 155. Which have been delivered and wreak havoc right now, as intended by Kraus-Maffei and Rheinmetall.
Waiting for US to deliver 300 miles HIMARS.
I really never researched the pzh 2000 but now I see it's a beast
What about the latest Rheinmetall meme?
pretty neat but the main reason theyre coming up with all these new systems is that they wanna shill theyr HX3 truck family.
Picrel is fat better.
>my ancestor
The MSTA-S is clearly far superior
*blocks you're path*
People who know more than me, how do the krautkannonen, /k/rab and Paladin all differ from each other? In what meaningful ways? In what ways that have the most downrange effect?