Not many weapons can claim to have such a significant impact on a war. The stinger earned legendary status for ing the soviets out of afghanistan.
Now, against all odds, a weapon system is doing just that. The HIMARS is Ukraine’s capital weapon. It outranges, and is more accurate (while being mass produced) Russian rocket artillery. Will the HIMARS be as decisive at kicking the Russians out of Ukraine as the stinger was kicking the Soviets out of afghanistan? All signs point to yes
Why do they call it a stinger if there's no needles?
you don't sting someone with a needle
You don't sting someone with a stinger
bees do
Wehraboo.
HIMARS and GMLRS are an American design
Javelins will win ukraine the war
Just wait for the NLAWs they will win the war
Just wait for m777 they will change the game
Just wait for 4 himars they will stop russia
--- you are now here ---
No one claimed javelins will win the war, just that’s it’s nice to have a man portable anti tank missile that’s so effective. HIMARS is actively destroying Russian supply lines from well behind friendly lines. Russia doesn’t have an answer for HIMARS and has not clear path of winning this war. American would have steamrolled Ukraine in a day
>HIMARS is destroying a lot of supplies behind enemy lines
>This difference isn’t a drop in the bucket
>Ukraine didn’t have any long range attack capability before they got HIMARS
>Ukraine didn’t have any long range attack capability before they got HIMARS
Correct. They had tochkas but they aren’t accurate enough to reliably hit point targets like GMLRS is.
>Tochkas are not accurate enough
Wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka
Read: Operational history
Also remember that Ukraine has other equipment for long-range strikes, including the remnants of its air force
>On 20 March 2018, the Syrian Army fired a Tochka towards the Turkish Hatay province, which fell in the border district of Yayladağı without causing any casualties or damage
>Also remember that Ukraine has other equipment for long-range strikes
Such as?
Harpoons
Helicopters
Fighter-bombers
Seems safer and more effective to just use long range rocket artillery paired with good intel. Would be dumb to not use HIMARS just because you already have helicopters
Yes. Point is, Ukrainians already had plenty of options for bombing ammo depots (tochkas, uragans and smerchs, planes, helis, maybe sabouteurs), and we provided only 8 or so HIMARS so far. Ukraine wants a “game changer” very badly (so far the game is rigged in Russia’s favor because Russia is simply larger) but the HIMARS isn’t it
Well, think again
>Ukrainians already had plenty of options for bombing ammo depots (tochkas, uragans and smerchs, planes, helis, maybe sabouteurs)
And yet only the HIMARS is blowing up depots on a daily basis. Tochka and smerch aren’t accurate or had in decent numbers. Planes and helis are vulnerable targets that haven’t really done much of anything this war. Only the HIMARS and cannon artillery are putting up good numbers, and rocket artillery far outranges cannon artillery
>Planes and helis are vulnerable targets that haven’t really done much of anything this war.
Planes are a threat against ruskie planes, probably a big reason why ruskies are not doing deep flights anymore (in addition of ukie ground-to-air defences). Just the existence is enough.
Dunno what ukie choppers are doing currently though, maybe some limited supply runs on more hot areas?
But I thought the ukrainian airforce has been totally destroyed? I mean, the Russians said so. Like twenty times by now.
hey guys, why is there no proof that himars actually destroyed any of the 12 supposedly destroyed ammo dumps?
Russians keep showing HIMARS pieces and crying about them.
Post kiev front
Post flagship Moskva
Post snake island
Post Sumy
Post jarkov
Post Butter and sugar
You forgot
>post onions
you forgot
Post trade volume
This is a good point, it may not be a total game changer, but for Ukraine, everything counts. They will need quantity of HIMARs to make a lasting difference, but given that Russia's ability to replenish their equipment is in question, any losses could have a big effect in the next few years, if not more.
I've never seen anyone say any of this.
Only thing would be HIMARS.
Hey there you stupid fricking Black person. Ukraine has said since late February that there is no way they can win without heavy weapons from NATO.
Pay attention you stupid fricking Black person.
For west it isn't important who wins, but how much Russia losses.
Javelins and Nlaws halted any delusions of swift advances. Russians now forced to fight for every scrap of land.
Manpads has made it almost impossible for Russian air to operate in Ukraine held areas.
MLRS means Ukraine has deep fires capability. Every depot they hit extends russian supply lines. This makes it even harder for Russia to make advances and to sustain operations.
So yes, NATO has been scarily spot on throughout.
>Manpads has made it almost impossible for Russian air to operate in Ukraine held areas.
That's mainly because Russian Air Force is incapable of high-altitude close air support, though.
Americans bypassed the manpad proliferation problem by not flight low and it works.
They had to accept a higher cost per strike but at least they can do said strikes at minimal risk.
Meanwhile, Russia are still making air strikes by flying at less than 8.000 meters from the ground.
What's the next Just in this list? Given that out of those 4 himars 2 have been already destroyed and 1 got broken (or was it initially shipped in that condition?) it is probably a time to extend it.
Where though? There's just that one video of the Russians missing a shipping container by like 25 feet.
we're just going to ignore manpads taking out entire tank columns and causing a shattered Russian retreat from 2 separate fronts?
no amount of hyping it will help
its just long range rocket artillery
useless without whole war machine supporting it
if Ukrops really managed to hit any ammo dumps with it its ammo dumps they themselves left behind while retreating
we all saw warehouses full of all sorts of soviet and western stuff Russians taken, of course Ukrops know where they are
>its just long range rocket artillery
It’s the only long range mass produced guided rocket artillery in the world
>what is BM-30 Smerch
Russians were developing rocket artillery and munitions way longer and way more intensely
they have GLONASS guidance versions+old school inertial
Even Ukrainians developed GPS version
even country with monthly median wage of 200USD had them
I imagine not many since they are expensive but they did make a few rockets
when it comes to guided missiles Russians seem to focus on air and submarine launch platforms
recent kh-22 strikes are probably their test of modernised versions that they are developing, we know they are testing a lot of stuff in Ukraine
Nowhere near as accurate as GMLRS. Hitting the point about mass production, the GMLRS is still the only mass produced guided rocket. Picrel is peacetime American GMLRS procurement. 6500 produced this year added to the already massive US stockpile. It isn’t even a contest
This. The M-31 we are sending them were produced in 2013. It's not making a demple in US supplies.
They have no production chain but the bigger point isn’t the rockets themselves. The russians have no highly refined kill chain because they have no satelites, no electronic warfare planes burning holes in the sky, no multination combined operations center to coordinate high value target strikes. The russians could have all the rockets and missiles in the world and would be throwing them blindly, as opposed to the ukranians being forcefed targeting data from NATO.
>smerch
>guided
>GLONASS being so shit russian pilots use garmin GPS
Vatnik i...
>Russia did it first
Where is the russian precision artillery, then ?
It's everywhere...
You east euro slavs are just insanely susceptible to any kind of pumping, marketing and shilling, it's yet another weapon that will change everything and will be forgotten in two short weeks like it never existed.
GMLRS has been talked about for nearly a decade. The fact that Russia doesn’t have an equivalent just highlights it’s capabilities in front of the world. People aren’t just going to stop talking about it because it hurts your feelings
>It's everywhere...
unguided rockets that can't hit broad side of a field isn't what normal people consider "precision" artillery
>and will be forgotten in two short weeks like it never existed.
M777, Crabs, PzH and CAESARs still operational and still destroying Russian artillery, it's just 150 vs 2000-4000 they can't instantly vaporize all Russians.
HIMARS still destroying Russian bases, depos, train stations and Vatniks have no way of preventing that
Sorry Ivan, we can't read uruk-hai
>8 wheels presented as an advantage
more wheel = more better comrad, trust *~~))
It's just tubes, there's nothing inherently more precise about it than any other launcher of such design. You're all hyped up like you're Lockheed Martin shareholders.
>like you're Lockheed Martin shareholders
You aren't ? Oh boy, you are missing out !
You're sarcastic but you're also not wrong...
>there's nothing inherently more precise about it
HIMARS is much more precise compare to SMERCH
to be fair, M31A1 is doing most of the work there. The real bit of the launchers that blows Russians away is the reload speed.
it's not, it's just tubes. there's precision strike ammo which is basically full blown ballistic missile that is only using tube as launching mount but kyiv didn't get those, those are probably very expensive and low in numbers.
The tubes aren’t what makes it accurate, it’s the rocket itself. GMLRS is far superior to smerch
rockets are just stupid passive rockets like all the others. someone read on wiki there's precision ammo available for those and automatically concluded only that ammo is used. It's expensive and made in very small numbers, Kyiv only got standard rockets that everyone is using.
It does have on board computers to calculate everything so need to do anything manually but precision is the same as every other tube launcher.
every single HIMARS attack was precisely on point, 10 km away, 80 km away. Russian rockets and tubes never could dream of such precision
>but precision is the same as every other tube launcher
ukies got m31 rockets which are gmlrs - meaning guided by gps
There are literally no unguided M270/HIMARS rockets remaining in the USA's inventory. Precision rockets are the only thing the US even has available to give.
It’s made in huge numbers. See
M31A1 is what Ukraine got you smooth brained, vatnig. The US hasn't used dumb rockets for close to a decade. The ones Ukraine used - that you vatnigs gathered pieces from after the strike - have been IDed as a batch from 2013. They're only expensive to shitholes like Russia.
lol at mr vatnik making a post about the specifics of US weapons procurement and not expecting 50 autists to correct him immediately
>those are probably very expensive and low in numbers
>probably
See here :
About 386K $US per missile.
Lockheed already proved they could produce about 6.500 missiles per year while being on low-level peace time production.
Please consider that each time you double the CEP of a ammunition, you are quadrupling the amount of ammunition to hit a target and so multiplying the total cost per target.
>Ve have it too !
>It is of production now
>Anytime you be seeing thousands of them !!
>In meantime, please look at that 80-years-old soviet stockpile
>Pussia ! Stonk !
>GLONASS
Ahh yes, the ammo dumps the ukies left when retreating... from territories that were under russian control for the last 8 years.
>what is Smerch
Typical russian vapourware garbage.
> useless without whole war machine supporting it
Fricking ESL Black folk
>useless without whole war machine supporting it
Well good thing that the whole of NATO is behind it, then
>we all saw warehouses full of all sorts of soviet and western stuff Russians taken, of course Ukrops know where they are
>rustards think spent javelin tubes with no sight found in a field after losing a tank is a captured weapon
>ukranians left ammo dumps in Russian territory they haven't controlled since 2014
It's nothing special nowadays. China, North Korea and Iran are producing/developing guided rockets with 2.5x the range and warheads 3x as powerful
>2.5x the range
>3x as powerful
>10x more in accurate
Yawn
>>10x more in accurate
China and Iran weapons systems have improved a lot in the past 20 years. denial and cope won't change that reality
So they should have no issue selling them right? Surely everyone will be clamoring for the Iranian/Chinese GMLRS if they're so much better than the American version?
I dont doubt they have, its not difficult to improve on garbage
they're way better than american ones you piece of shit! you'll see! you'll all fricking see!
Still not as accurate as us.mil GPS guided. Also they are massive vehicles with a footprint like a mobile ICBM, not at al comparable to the highly mobile American system
They are also 10x more reliable in their claims
Alixpress reviews can't be trusted that much.
Why do you think HIMARS has had a major effect on the war?
2/4 have already been destroyed LMAO!
im sure that you can provide us a proof for that statement comrade...
One telegram channel said so.
Was it as trustworthy as intel slava z?
Fanfiction is not a source
>m-muh incel smegma z told so. so it has to be true!! im telling you!
man... kys and stop embarrasing yourself even more
much obliged
vatnik news released of video of them firing a missile at a bunch of cargo containers in some depot, and missing ofcourse.
Incel smegma z told him so.
Russian mod claimed they sunk 17 of them already just trust the plan
Even if 2/4 have been destroyed, ignoring the fact that there's more coming. 4 of those assets have done more damage to the entire logistical and command situation of their enemy than their destruction was worth.
The west can't keep sending HIMARs if they run out of gas and freeze at winter
This is unironically how Russians cope on state TV btw. They claim the west is gonna freeze and that the sanctions are doing more damage to them than to Russia.
even better. Belarussian propaganda claim that tere is no salt in poland and there are queues to Luka border for food.
Sure they can. It costs basically no natural gas to ship already built HIMARS and rockets
>the west can’t load HIMARS onto a plane or truck if they experience a spike in gas and oil prices
You think like a stupid child
Good thing its summer.
>russia can steamroll ukraine in:
Feb: two more days!
Mar-Apr: two more weeks!
May: two more months!
Jun: two more seasons!
Ukraine says they have 6, but only 3 are feilded due to trianing.
https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1545010070454427654
13 now
Europe isn't going to freeze. Don't worry about that. The West will make someone happen if it comes down to it.
The major risk though is German industry which is majorly dependent on gas (and oil, coal, etc) and not getting it from Russia is going to hurt them a lot. Gas, especially, is hard to come by for them as they're just now started building an LNG terminal and all the world's LNG export facilities are maxed out. If the gas industry can't cobble something together in a hurry we may be giving the Germans huge aid payments -- something that is BOUND to be hugely unpopular in the EU. I hope we take leadership and up at least half of the bailout package.
Anyway this is all moot because Russia will absolutely and without any doubt return to selling to Europe normally before their FORCED to ditch Russian gas for good. Even if Russia has to end the war they'll do it. Gas is the reason for it to begin with.
>all the world's LNG export facilities are maxed out. If the gas industry can't cobble something together in a hurry
If it was November, the hand wringing would be justified. They're having to accelerate storage projects and pay more for LNG shipments, but we're talking impacts to Germany's (stupendous) bottom line, not a shutdown of Germany industry. Gotta remember that Europe is dense compared to the likes of the US and Russia, i.e. the Netherlands and the UK both have nearby and extensive LNG import infrastructure, there's multiple mainland interconnectors, Norway exists, and every EU country has a 90 day oil stock buffer.
why doesnt germany just use those nuclear power plants they have
Have you heard a term "German Bureaucracy"? By the time they would have all the required permissions to restart one of those old plants, they would have already build a fricking gas pipe all the way to america.
why did they shut them down though
Nuclear power plants take years to 'restart'. And you can't interrupt the shutdown process, which also takes years. And even if they did restart them instantly in some magical way, they would just replace one Russian problem with another: Instead of being dependent on gas, they'd now be dependent on Russian uranium and Rosatom, a Russian state-owned firm, which basically holds a majority share in all nuclear generators.
>dependent on Russian uranium and Rosatom
Uranium isnt rare and can be mined in sufficient quantities on all continents and historically Germany gets its enriched fuel from Urenco Group in the Netherlands (which is partly owned by German power companies RWE and EON).
Russia doesnt have to sell gas to Europe, they can just continue selling it to india and then india sells it to europe on a markup. Only Europe is losing with this exchange.
Russia does not have logistics to match even tenth of what was going to europe by selling china and india.
Shit does not just miraclously appear on the other side of the world because you pressed a button.
They dont need to move it, gas and oil is 90% future markets. They are right now selling the stocks of the next couple of years. So it wont be a problem for the russians until a long time from now.
Yes, I know that russia is fricked on long term.
The stinger wasn't that effective against soviet air in afghanistan. It forced a change in tactics but the overwhelming majority of shots missed.
No
>Afghan fighters used Stingers to shoot down 269 aircraft out of 340 engagements, a 79% success rate.
I think that estimate comes from the air defense yearbook for 1993.
this is wrong as
said, but even if it was correct that's still a success, air defense historically has been more about keeping the enemy beyond effective engagement range than actually shooting them down
More than the HIMARS itself, its just longer range and accurate western artillery overall, plus a change in Uki tactics in response to ruskie tactics
Russia started this war with its failed blyatzkrieg that ended up costing them countless troops and equipment at an unsustainable rate, since the Ukis countered it with defense in depth, after that the russians have used their advantage in volume of artillery to basically flatten Ukraine and capture piles of rubble
Since the artillery sits at the back its hard to ambush, so now the Ukranian strategy is once again targetting a weakness of the russian strategy, so much arty requires a ton of shells, those tons of shells must be stored somewhere, those stores are being targetted by Ukis with glowie intel and western precision weapons
Its a different form of attrition, but itll be interesting to see how effective it is, to see if russia can actually be starved of artillery shells
A lot of the intel the ukotbanians have about ammo dumps is being bought straight from the russians.
they wouldnt even need to, there are thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of civillians all around, the russians arent even attempting to keep the depots secret. that would be impossible with the industrial scale of the logistics involved
Nice to see at least one person in the thread understands what going on.
I heard a speech by a US general recently saying that long-range precision fires are the #1 asked for tool by the US military. Mobility is only so useful when you can't stand still for long without getting whacked
If we just let Russia win this stupid war, gas prices would go to normal, but noooooo. We have to protect a non nato country. Shit is gay. I don't give a frick about Europe or the rest of this homosexual planet. I don't give a frick if Russia ruled Europe and ended democracy for all the US hating Socialist gay boy europoors. I just want gas prices to go back down, I want shit to go back to normal. I don't give a frick about what is good for "democracy" NATO or the world. I care about America first!
>waaaah, waaaaaaah, why are those mean westerners fighting back?
>why can't they just leave poor roosya to invade and brutalise European nations in peace?
>life is so unfair
Russians have nothing to do with american gas prices.
Texas exports gas to Europe. Dumb frick, it affects the entire market.
then pump more
0/8, you're trying entirely way too hard.
>oh no i wants things to go back the way they were, when i was still sucking my mom's tit
Grow up homosexual, things will never be the way they were. Suck it up and take one for the team
people who trade freedom for convenience deserve neither
If Europe and US abandons net zero, gas prices will fall. Its all self inflicted.
>If we just let Russia win this stupid war, gas prices would go to normal, but noooooo. We have to protect a non nato country. Shit is gay.
This but unironically.
Consequences will never be the same.
>If we just let Russia win this stupid war, gas prices would go to normal
>Russia made Biden gan everything before they invaded Ukraine.
Yeah, sure.
>If we just let Hitler win this stupid war, everything would go to normal, but noooooo.
frick homosexuals making their countries dependable on batshit dictators
frick russia
frick china
and most importantly, frick you
so you want an empowered russia that can more easily manipulate oil prices in the future?
have a nice day mutBlack person.
>outranges
Smerch can do 120 miles
and smerch can't hit shit
GMLRS hits targets at 135km
https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/extended-range-gmlrs-flies-135-km-test
Is there any real difference between HIMARS and the M270 aside from the lack of tracks?
yes
HIMARS can only carry one launcher module - so one ATACM missile or six regular GMLRS. It is much lighter though and can move around far faster.
What's the difference between this and the M270 MLRS that the UK and a couple other countries are sending? Nobody talks about the M270s but I think there's at least a half dozen on the way.
Cute small truck tho only impact it has is on reddit upvotes.
Massive cope
>they didnt destroy any HIMARS
Why did they decide to stop blowing ammo-depots today? Feint?
>today
You care to share that direct real time channel you have to Ukraine High Command ?
>Why did they decide to stop blowing ammo-depots today?
https://twitter.com/hochu_dodomu/status/1544952135611256832
They didn't. There has been another depot blown up today.
>location?
>it was revealed to me in a dream, by a man shining like the sun in night
That man is your friend. Do not kill him. And especially do NOT roll him over with your car.
They hit two with fixed wing aircraft today. HIMARS is busy with the Novobohdanivka-Troitske bridge.
Ye nah
Nah ye.
>telegram said these containers were HIMARs
Yeh nah mate
I don't think you've understood me. HIMARS was hitting a bridge today, the latest ammo depots are claimed to be fixed wing strikes. Vatniks still posting puffs of smoke in empty fields and courtyards as internal propaganda.
>the latest ammo depots are claimed to be fixed wing strikes.
No one but you is claiming that
Pretty sure he's thinking about the 5th.
>They hit two with fixed wing aircraft today
Source? I can only find one that was hit by HIMARS
https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1544962110903533573
Holly shit the chugBlack person coping is unreal today
Looks like someone got transferred from the Reddit division. A random puff of smoke in a random piece of woods doesn't mean anything here, we cross-reference bombed bases with FIRMS data here.
Whole Donetsk city if burning homie, you got footage of that from today. Why do you need FIRMS for that?
Burning whole cities that you claimed would welcome you with open arms, and can't catch a couple widdle bittie rocket launchers. Must be so frustrating.
>Whole Donetsk city if burning
oh no no no
>Shelling of Mariupol? What are you talking about? Kiev nazis were shelling the Mariupol
lel
Eye for eye, a significant portion of the western masses stopped feeling bad for russians
yeah the psychotic liberal portion
>I support the opposite of what the media says because I can't make up my own mind on a per topic basis. What do you mean I'm an NPC?
FIRMS tell us something is going on behind Russian lines in the south.
>we ONLY lost one strategic military target today, this means we're winning
are Vatniks really?
let me present... the UNDENIABLE proof that HIMARS has been DESTROYED
Just another wunder waffe that's going to win the war...
PS. if Stinger was really the weapon that won the Soviet - Islamic Fricktards War then what was the weapon that won it the last time? The hand-me-down AK-47?
What are you trying to say
Too late, too few.
Books? What are those? Are they readable because I can only write.
Have you tried reading books?
Wunderwaffe is unproven experimental stuff, not field-tested weapons that other countries already have. It's never meant that.