>the entire Klingon fleet can't take one Cardassian space station
And we're supposed to believe they could just conquer Cardassia?
>the entire Klingon fleet can't take one Cardassian space station
>the entire Klingon fleet can't take one Cardassian space station
And we're supposed to believe they could just conquer Cardassia?
Klingon tactics
>Once shields are down slowly materialize on their ship armed with swords so they have time to aim and shoot
>the entire Klingon fleet can't take one Cardassian space station
Wasn't the station being upgraded and reinforced to deal with the Dominion?
That threat is a step above the Klingons, and don't forget the station was boarded and only just about contained their boarding parties.
48 phaser arrays, 39 phaser emitters, and 5000 torpedoes. The Dominion lost 50 ships taking DS9 in S5.
that's peanuts to the dominion
It's peanuts to everyone in the grand scheme of things, but fleet totals take second place to local assets.
what if the dominion just ignored the station and went around it
They couldn't. The wormhole was an operational chokepoint and war with the Federation was a given at that point. On top of that, the Federation was also mining the wormhole, which meant they couldn't even have their ships make a run for it out of the wormhole. The station was also located very close to Cardassian borders.
Taking it makes the perfect defense for the wormhole
>a single salvo from the Klingon flagship knocks out the station's shields
>they only fire once
:/
It's not Klingon way you petaQ!
Where is honour in this you long eared ferengi
Klingons are based and know that Melee is the ultimate and most kino form of warfare. only savages would blow up a station instead of boarding it!
I mean it's better to capture DS9 than destroy it if you can
well yeah it's probably better but the point is that the proper way of killing someone is in glorious Melee!
Which I always thought was wierd because Klingon disruptors are really well-designed guns, they make getting vaporized look like it's really painful
It was a Cardassian station, but upgraded with Federation weaponry, shielding and protocols (such as superior redundancy capability, damage control measures etc).
Didn't Starfleet upgrade it with shit loads of torpedos and shit?
Klingons aren't hard to beat honestly. For being a warrior culture they've always actually been terrible warriors in reality.
That's a lot of martial cultures. They tend to become complacent and not innovate out of tradition until they're actively threatened.
I'll indulge you
Fleets are both very small in Star Trek (which is honestly more realistic considering the resources needed to build starships of that size), and space stations are massive fortresses with shields and gun layouts that a capital ship cant dream to match. You know how in the end of Picard s3 an entire fleet engages Starbase 1 at earth and seems to be barely scratching it? That's always been canon, theres a reason Earth never has a fleet patrolling it, it doesnt need one as long as Starbase 1 is there
Sorry I meant Earth Spacedock, not Starbase-1
There was always a conflict between the Trek crew regarding fleet strength. It's why Wolf 359 was a major Federation defeat with 40 ships lost while a few years later a major Federation defeat would mean 400 ships lost. There is also the real world reason in that it was insanely difficult, time consuming, and expensive to do multi-ship shots before CGI. Dominion War fleet sizes have been debated for almost 20 years now, but most give a number of somewhere around ~10,000 Starfleet ships to support numbers given onscreen while still retaining full operational capacity. Which sounds like a lot but Federation territory is also 8000 lightyears wide.
Gowron was a military brainlet, but the Klingons absolutely needed DS9 taken intact.
According to the show, picrel is supposed to be the entirety of Starfleet. This is what...maybe 200 ships in total. Less than 1k at least. +20 years since the end of the Dominion War and longer since the last Borg incursion.
Keep in mind the Dominion fleet that ambushed the Tal'Shiar/Obsidian Order attack was 150 ships and that was portrayed as though it was an impossibly huge fleet in one place at one time
I'm pretty sure the fleet that got lost in the wormhole was 2000 ships
The dominion controls an entire quadrant and that was one of their main fleets.
I do like that in STO that fleet comes back because the Prophets didnt destroy them, they just used their temporal nature to throw the fleet 30 years into the future
DS9 has a lot of weird writing flaws like this, unfortunately.
Wasn't the Federation fleet at the end of PIC S1 200 ships as well?
Except the loss of those 40 ships was enough to have Starfleet afraid that Maxwell's actions could restart a war with the Cardassians that would have the Federation at a disadvantage. There really isn't any way to reconcile the difference because the difference is a result of real world production changes.
It's already canon that they're powerhogs and interfere with other systems.
>There was always a conflict between the Trek crew regarding fleet strength. It's why Wolf 359 was a major Federation defeat with 40 ships lost while a few years later a major Federation defeat would mean 400 ships lost.
That's not inconsistency, that's the difference between a surprise attack from what's basically an singular entity, vs realistic wartime expectations.
To make a real life example, we lost something like 2000 troops in Iraq. That's bad and should be mourned, but people understand that 2000 dead would be like an hour on the modern battlefield in a WW3 situation. Different expectations for different scenarios.
>flies to the opposite side of the planet and glasses it instead of just engaging the station
Nothing personnel kiddo
Assuming they have several starbases why don't they just give them big engines and turn them into super battleships?
Isn't one of them even named the yamato?
The Yamato was a Galaxy-class ship like the Enterprise-D of TNG, but it was destroyed when it unfortunately came in contact with Iconian tech
The point was Galron was an actual military brainlet that would have lost in the civil war against the Duras had he not had been saved by The Federation
Gowron was a far better Klingon than the Duras, they only got as far as they did because of Romulan support.
Worf calls him a political outsider but that's just because he's not from a Great House, in terms of personality and action he's one of the most Klingon Klingons ever.
I a galaxy where having bleed edge tech is what makes you a threat, Klingons always seem to lag behind. And their culture doesn't seem to prioritize sciences but exults politicians or personal marital prowess. Occasionally you get one Klingon mad-scientist wackjob, that fricks with genetics (and screws it up) or a time travel weapon.
Being a scientist in Klingon culture isnt honorable, even though it's a very important job and an esteemed position
Klingons have something only them and the Romulans possess which gives them a giant edge and that's cloaking tech
The only thing stopping the Federation from using cloaking tech is a treaty, and All Good Things... showed that the moment they weren't bound to the treaty they adopted cloaking. More interesting is that the Cardassians are apparently familiar with cloaking devices but don't use them in their military. It seems more like cloaking is situationally useful but kind of dead end tech and that going all in on it like the Romulans and Klingons did has hampered them.
Yeah but a lot of those ships lost in the Dominion War were 70+ year old Miranda and Excelsior-class ships
It's probably very energy intensive and that can be funnelled into weapons shields or engines instead
Is cloak tech still tactically viable? With some very few exceptions, it prevents firing and shielding. If the enemy knows you may be there,there are ways to counter acting (tracking neutrino emissions). Maybe the Cardanssians and Federation figure it much easier to just lower your sensor profile (making you harder to detect at long range) than a out-and-out cloak.
It's still very useful for easy concealed fleet movement
Yes but that's how ROMULANS think
TOTAL KLINGON DEATH
>still using the K'Tinga class in that age
Sure, Feddies cant talk, they still use Mirandas. But Romulans dont use their old ships anymore, they modernized and use a small fleet of BoP on par with a Galaxy-class
God I fricking love the D'deridex-class, it's one of my favorite ships in all of fiction.
>get the sexiest ship designs
>are basically an afterthought in post-TOS material
>get wiped out in the reboot movies
>new canon material kills them off to remain consistent with the reboot movies that no one cares about anymore
One hell of a monkey's paw.
>are basically an afterthought in post-TOS material
What? They were basically THE antagonists in TNG, they showed up to start shit more than any other faction.
They're the sneaky gits who start shit. Compare that to the development and worldbuilding devoted to the Klingons.
>>get wiped out in the reboot movies
>>new canon material kills them off to remain consistent with the reboot movies that no one cares about anymore
And to provide some exposition in that terrible first season of star trek picard. Disgraceful.
zhat vash can gargle my nuts
it looks like an angry birb.
OH PLEASE BR'ER FOX, ANYWHERE BUT DAT DERE BR'ER PATCH!!!
>translator's note, from the original japanese
>JUST AS PLANNED.
>it looks like an angry birb
It's supposed to look like a bird of prey as its ship type implies, yes
Ok listen up. The Klingons weren't trying to destroy the station, they were trying to take it. So when shields went down they weren't like "Target the big red exposed fusion reaction at the bottom of the station" but instead transported troops. That's how you capture a station.
Close quarter combat is difficult whether you use blades or pistols in general, but the defender advantage in the tight confines of a station is massive - there are only so many places you can materialize. And that's fine. If you're an old Klingon looking for an honorable death before you're passed over for service and are left with no fate but to die of old age in bed, or you're young with no family name needing to reap some glory, volunteers are plentiful.
Now the thing is, the Klingons thought they had time to simply wear the station defenders down with wave after wave. The cost of enduring return fire while you lowered your own shields to transport over was not expected to be so high. Sure, they thought they lose some ships, but they didn't realize they were assaulting something so heavily fortified. The capture was taking as long as they thought, but the pace of ship losses was immense.
>your runabout is boarded by a lone Klingon
>this is your captor
>sex with a Klingon woman broke like half of Quark's bones
Worth it