The entire Imperial Japanese Army of 1939, with all its equipment and stockpiles, gets teleported to Germany just before the start of Barbarossa.
Would the invasion succeed?
The entire Imperial Japanese Army of 1939, with all its equipment and stockpiles, gets teleported to Germany just before the start of Barbarossa.
The complete chaos and language barrier would be hilarious and yes
Counter-Point: Blitzkrieg involves deep penetrations that encircle enemy formations/strongpoints while continuing to the rear.
IJA could be used to hold encirclement perimeters of Russian cities, towns and strongpoints, which would free-up German forces to focus on penetrations.
Also, Japs of that era were vicious c**ts and the Germans had to dedicate a huge amount of men and materiel to cleaning up the rear as there were millions of soviet soldiers who got isolated or cut off in groups ranging from companies to entire battalions who then engaged in partisan activities. Having the IJA deal with the rear would be tremendously useful.
how would they supply all those extra guns and mouths?
Stockpiles aren't worth much if you can't get them to where they're needed.
Frick I always forget how helpful it is to speak a common language with your allies. It never occurred to me because I only ever really interacted with the British. But frick how many Germans and Japs were bilingual?
Freeing up the Wehrmacht to keep pushing on would have 'kicked in the rotten edifice' as they believed. Getting held up on mopping up encircled cauldrons costs time and resources. Plus they had years of Manchuria et. al. experience. A good deployment idea.
Italians were on the leading edge in the interwar period with armor as well, at least until Shermans start showing up in quantity in North Africa. Japs just needed a better HMG and radios/artillery coordination therewith (logistics aside). What armor they had was appropriate to the low load capacity bridges and shit monsoon regions they engaged in.
Alternatively using them as disposable house to house fighters in Stalingrad to force the issue as soon as possible with sheer mass wouldn't be the worst outcome/use either.
>Italians were on the leading edge in the interwar period with armor as well, at least until Shermans start showing up in quantity in North Africa.
pretty sure the french had what were considered, on paper, the best tanks of the interwar period and in the immediate leadup to battle of france. there was quite a lot of doubt in the german officer and enlisted ranks about whether they could even engage and destroy french tanks.
Imagine how much more effective even a 12 degree traverse to left and right on the hull mounted gun would have made the Char series. That gun had a decent HE charge for the time. If only you didn't have to move the entire fricking tank. Rip out one of the men in the hull and give it a 20 degree traverse and you've actually have a decent assault gun for 1939. Forgetting the reliability issues due to the oil.
The Wheemacht wasn't held back by having to mop up encirclements. It was held back by the speed at which it could move up its LOGISTICAL TETHER. Aka, how fast they could convert the soviet railways to european standard rail gauge that their own trains could use. You can't speed up the Wehrmachts advance in Barbarossa notably without crashing the already tenuous logistics and grinding everything to a dead halt.
Two points
1. The IJA would presumably come with its (admittedly paltry) transport, which would beef up the Wehrmacht's ability to supply itself
2. mopping up pockets takes troops and transport away from the front
no
Oh, you mean would the Allies succeed? Yes.
I imagine germany would assume they were being invaded and, while home ground advantage would mean they win the immediate battles, it would really put a dent in their plans for europe.
No because if the entire IJA was dumped in Europe they wouldn't be able to fight in China
Yes because China wasn't a critical theater of war, just a very large backwater.
Axis human waves against T-26s
they'd all starve to death, so no.
japs will just eat all the slavs
The IJA was laughably underequipped thanks to the IJN gay-autismos.
>The IJA was right, the chink and the soviet union were the problem
no, they would be better off attacking from the East at the same time as Barbarossa.
>implying they could beat Russia despite not being able to beat China
Russia could’ve won WW2 all by themselves against all nations at the same time. They would win easy.
Japan did beat Russia in 1905
>comparing the Tsar to the strength and glory of the Soviet Union
>Strength of the Soviet Union when America lend lease was running its economy
Russia was able to launch Operation Typhoon and drive the Germans back from Moscow because they knew with 100% certainty the Japanese weren't going to attack Siberia. If IJA had decided to avenge Khalkin Ghol, then the Germans would have taken the city and probably shored up their positions due to Moscow being the main railway hub in Russia
>1939
>Chi-Nu and Ho-Ni III
Try again.
No.The japanese land army was WW1 tier.
The Type 95 Ha-Go was a lot better than the Panzer Is and IIs Germany was still widely fielding in 1939. Japan also had a lot more light machine-guns(two per squad) and platoon level artillery(three knee mortars). The IJA was far better equipped than most European armies of the late 30s.
so true
>Japan also had a lot more light machine-guns(two per squad)
1 German MG > 3 Japanese MGs
>this is what naziboos actually believe
Compare the guns.
they're called wehraboos you fricking summergay. and i'm no wehraboo since i've read enough about nazi internal politics that i consider it a fricking miracle they got as far as they did by 1941. japanese weapons were not just inferior to nazi weapons, they were also generally inferior to british, french, czech, american and even russian and italian weapons.
The most common japanese LMG was a hopper-fed piece of shit jam-o-matic. The most common german LMG was a highly rleiable beltfed.
Wait, a Ha-Go with added side skirts?
Germans (like most modern armies of that period) also had "platoon-level artillery" in the form of 50mm mortars, called the 5 cm Granatwerfer 36.
>Japan winning anyway against anyone other then China and Holland in 1939
No, Literally never
Japan was unironically better suited to defeating Britain than the Germans ever were.
no. both get decimated by the cold plus now the US can waltz directly in tokyo and quickly decapitate its leadership.
Having Japan cut off the supply to the Soviets pouring in from America would be far more effective.
two front war against soviets would have worked better and made it harder for the US to join without a Pearl Harbor attack
Poland would occupy Berlin by summer in 1941.
It would be like adding a second Romania just without the oil.
Yeah, Germany already had a shitload of leg infantry armed with only bolt actions and WW1 howitzers at their disposal. The Romanian and Hungarian armies. And the Russians drove through them like they weren't even there.
>more people for germany to struggle to feed and supply
German logistics have a stroke and die, leading to a much faster defeat.
This. The logistics on the eastern front were an afterthought and complete garbage. Adding however many screaming nips to the baggage train is just going to make everything stall farther away from Moscow.
Should have asked for the chinese. At least we know they can build a railroad.
>Would the invasion succeed?
If they also bring supplies, yes.
If not, maybe.
>Do the japs listen to the Germans and accept a secondary role
If no, no, it's a massive failure, the outcome is essentially the same. If yes:
>Germs let the japs take care of Kiev pocket, push on towards moscow, get there a month or two early
>either their supply lines fail anyways and they don't make it. or they are able to push through to moscow before the defenses are ready
Say the germans encircle moscow
>stalin leaves (where's the fun in him giving up, really?)
>Soviet union is pretty much fricked
However
>half a million screaming asiatics appear.
Do they make it to moscow in time? Are they completely fricking worthless? idk, to be honest. Maybe the chinese smell blood and invade Mongolia and the USSR themselves
picrel would happen
>The entire Imperial Japanese Army of 1939
That's like 3 army groups, around the size of the army that invaded the USSR. It's the invasion force multiplied with crack soldiers with fanatical courage. Yeah, it's a no brainer that it will. Without three army groups thrown in the Soviets barely held it together through 1942.
>crack troops
the japanese unironically sucked at land warfare, and I say this as someone who thinks this (probably) would have tipped the scales. The real question is supply and the fact that the japanese would have been uber butthurt about their role, which would have to be secondary, because they had no transport to speak of, and basically no tanks or AT weapons.
The IJN won the Philippines. The IJA just mopped up. The defense was
A: hopeless
B: gigantically mismanaged
C: surprisingly resilient (because the japs were incompetent too)
wrong on all counts, that's Singapore, not the Philippines.
Those strongholds weren't hopeless, they had numerical superiority and superiority in combat readiness and equipment, and land-based air support.
True enough they were mismanaged, but that is only a point in favor of the Japanese. A well managed attack is as good as the troops who can carry it out.
LOL, The Philippines folded embarrassingly. There wasn't a single point when the defenders put brakes on the offensive or made any counterattack. Many strongholds surrendered with little fighting.
>wrong on all counts, that's Singapore, not the Philippines.
Same story, different verse.
>they had numerical superiority
And nowhere near the supplies to use it.
>and superiority in combat readiness and equipment
Commonwealth troops in singers had shit readiness and shit equipment.
>and land-based air support
That had already been mogged hard by the IJN.
>Those strongholds weren't hopeless,
Yes, they were. They had no hope of resupply. They were fricked, even if the japs just sat there and did nothing.
>they had numerical superiority
So what? half of the were untrained flips.
>and superiority in combat readiness
See above
>and equipment, and land-based air support.
and almost no ammo or fuel.
>True enough they were mismanaged,
horrifically so, especially on the supply side
>but that is only a point in favor of the Japanese.
Not at all. Especially not in favor of the IJA
>A well managed attack is as good as the troops who can carry it out.
The attack wasn't well managed. Given how much of a clusterfrick the supply situation surrounding the withdrawal from manilla was, the japs should have taken Bataan in a couple of weeks.
>LOL, The Philippines folded embarrassingly.
Despite the fact that they had basically no supplies, the japs didn't take the whole place for 5 fricking months.
>There wasn't a single point when the defenders put brakes on the offensive or made any counterattack. Many strongholds surrendered with little fighting.
>A penetration in the I Corps line was stopped and broken up into several pockets. On 8 February Homma ordered the suspension of offensive operations in order to reorganize his forces. This could not be carried out immediately, because the 16th Division remained engaged trying to extricate a pocketed battalion of its 20th Infantry. With further losses, the remnants of the battalion, 378 officers and men, were extricated on 15 February. On 22 February the 14th Army line withdrew a few miles to the north, and USAFFE forces re-occupied the abandoned positions. The result of the Battle of the Points and Battle of the Pockets was total destruction of all three battalions of the Japanese 20th Infantry and a clear USAFFE victory.
German logistics were terrible and the Japanese were even worse
>China in 1939 be like
>Germany constantly lacked workers in WW2
>Germany also didn't ahve a deep pool of reservists due to no conscription until 1935
This would probably be the best use for the IJA:
>demobilize the whole lot
>take what makes sense of their equipment
>put the Japs to work in German factories and farms
>use them as a pool of manpower to reconstitute units that get wiped in Russia
1. Wait decade before WW2.
2. Wait until Germany had nuclear power. Wait. Until IJA had ICBMs with anthrax.
3. Germany invades Poland and Russia, USA does nothing deebly concerned.
4. Japan annexed KMT China, USA does nothing deeply concerned.
1940s were time when there wasn't force multiplier weapons. Where USSR and USA could just spam X
Great plan, except for the part where without a war the Nazis' house of cards of an economy implodes by 1940 and they're left behind in the dust by the neighbouring powers.
And a nationalist China that is allowed to sit pretty and work on its military reforms and stomping the warlords is going to outright stomp the Japs' off the continent by the late 40's.
Also, "muh nukes" isn't a winner in the late 40's when you're up against people who will decisively win the strategic air war against you.
>Great plan, except for the part where without a war the Nazis' house of cards of an economy implodes by 1940
Libertardian myth. The Soviet economy was 100 times worse set up, run and less attractive for foreign Investors and they lasted until the 90s.
MEFO bills were not a myth, economylet. The nazis bought their armaments miracle on credit, and had nothing to pay it back without the war.
>The Soviet economy was 100 times worse set up
LMAO, unlike the Nazis' shitshow, the Soviets were actually substantially autarkic and didn't buy everything on credit.
whats that like 20 divisions?
Dont know if theyll win, but it sure as shit will help
in 1939 the germans mostly had panzer 1's and 2's which were much more comparable to japenese tanks than the panzer 4 and 5. they probably would've made it work
In Hearts of Iron it would.
What are some good PC strategy games I should play? Civ VI? Europa Universalis? Hearts of Iron? Good old Starcraft games or C&C/Red Alert?
Rome Total War
HOI 2?
germany outran it's logistics train, the problem wasn't that they didn't have enough men
>The entire Imperial Japanese Army of 1939, with all its equipment and stockpiles, gets teleported to Germany just before the start of Barbarossa.
with just small arms, not only have you have just added 20+ weapon platforms and their associated parts to the logistical burden of the german military industrial economy, but also following calibres
>7×20mm Nambu
>8×22mm Nambu
>9×22mmR Japanese
>7.63×25mm Mauser
>6.5×50mm Arisaka
>7.7×58mm Arisaka
>7.7×58mm Type 92
>7.7x56R Type 87 IJN
>7.7x58mmSR Type 89
japan used several types of non-interchangeable 7.7mm rounds because the army and navy hated each other almost as much as they hated americans and chinese.
>Army of barbaric sub bumans have to be tard wrangled into russia with broken german
>SS retainers placed onto suicide watch
The Japs had a reasonably good 1930's army, but that's all they had.