The AK action is more reliable than the AR15 action due to the following reasons.
>bolt assembly weight
>bolt carrier / bolt weight ratio
>bolt assembly overtravel distance after/behind the magazine
>a superior anti pre-engagement system for bolt turning lifted off of the Garand
>the AR gas system is more complicated with many tightly toleranced fits that wear and let by gas, it requires even goddamn gas rings to achieve sufficient sealing
>stronger extractor
>fixed ejector
>bigger locking lugs with better balanced stresses
>camming extraction
>more robust magazines designed from the ground up with beefy feed lips and constant curvature
>more tapered cartridges (not inherent to the gun)
>rock lock magazine offering leverage to insert magazine
>pivoting magazine catch does not freeze unlike a sliding one
>safety lever longer to offer more leverage when frozen etc.
>an order of magnitude of more space in the trigger pack
>when cleaning you can reach everything with just your fingers and a cloth
In comparison to the AK the AR is a finicky gun.
Now of course nobody should adopt AK's in this day and age due to the proliferation of optics and other gizmos people want to bolt on top of their rifles. Any new current rifle should have a full length top rail solidly mounted to the barrel preferably made out of one piece of aluminum.
Frick ya mudda
not buying a shitty commie gun
Is that why the taliban ditched all their super special tdp exact Russian and Chinese fricking aks when Joe biden left them clapped our m4's? You are an idiot and your opinion is shit.
This is not an opinion. Every single point I made is factual and you can go look up every single one and find out that they are true.
I prefer the AR but they probably swapped off because the AK's were significantly older and probably more expensive for them to keep using over literally billions worth of free gear
Not to mention the photo opportunity of using guns paid for by the tax pigs, who wants a margarita without any salt on the rim?
>super special tdp exact Russian and Chinese fricking aks
New ones or old ones?
Can I buy from them? Also
>zombie
You imply the zombie's predecessor, who wanted to take away guns before due process, wasn't the one who started leaving.
and when the parts break they'll go back to the AK because they don't have American logistics.
>showing off your captured war trophies means the losing side's weapons were actually better
This is Trudeau-tier logic from coping ARgays as usual.
This also Ukrainians prefer ARs and covet them. They immediately ditch their AKs when they have the opportunity to run an AR.
Is that why they're losing so bad? Huh
That's absolutely false. In fact, it's the opposite of it. So much that Ukraine just signed a contract with CZUB to build a Bren 2 factory in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have nothing but complaints about the AR-15s that were given to them, most common complaint being the fact that they require constant cleaning and oiling to run reliably.
No shit a modern M4 is going to be a more effective gun(when it functions) than shitty sandnig AKMs from the cold war with no optics mount and a caliber that’s subpar compared to 5.56 for tagging bodies.
Doesn’t mean the AR is a better design.
I thought they were selling them to foreign people.
I thought it was the reverse and many had logistical problems due to incompatible ammo.
>In comparison to the AK the AR is a finicky gun
Which is why practically everyone now makes AR18 based designs.
>Which is why practically everyone now makes AR18 based designs.
Great, now I want an AR19 just to go 1 better. AR20 WHEN?
While the gas system is more reliable than the one on the AR-15 many of the AR-18 derivatives still hold some of the AR-15 downfalls.
I prefer AK derivatives and am saddened to see the direction the industry is heading to.
SCAR is most reliable gun out there though. And it's AR-15 derivative.
tell that to the operators who were pissed about how unreliable it was in the field and ditched it
the bottom is a SCAR bcg but what are the top two for? MGs?
Middle one is an FNC. Don't know what the top one is from a glance.
top is an F/FS2000
And all of them have AR controls
Oh, is that why Russia is losing a war against basically Tennessee?
Tennessee is winning against the second army in the world by using AK's.
Checkmate atheists.
Something close to 90% of casualties are from shrapnel/heavy munitions. The biggest advantage Ukraine has over Russia in small arms is proliferation of optics, which are easier to mount on ARs but not prohibitively expensive or difficult to do on AKs either.
Post your AK and AR, because I don't believe you have experience with either rifle.
omg i made that like ten years ago
>bolt assembly weight
can be adjusted via the buffer
>bolt carrier / bolt weight ratio
can still be adjusted via the buffer
>bolt assembly overtravel distance after/behind the magazine
can be adjusted via the buffer
>a superior anti pre-engagement system for bolt turning lifted off of the Garand
multiple different types per gun exist
>the AR gas system is more complicated with many tightly toleranced fits that wear and let by gas, it requires even goddamn gas rings to achieve sufficient sealing
sort of, but not really, its negligible, and even when abused, will still work just as good as an AK
>stronger extractor
multiple different types per gun exist
>fixed ejector
true, but also negligible
>bigger locking lugs with better balanced stresses
negligible on a quality gun
>camming extraction
true
>more robust magazines designed from the ground up with beefy feed lips and constant curvature
multiple different types per gun exist
>more tapered cartridges (not inherent to the gun)
true
>rock lock magazine offering leverage to insert magazine
true, but also negligible
>pivoting magazine catch does not freeze unlike a sliding one
true, but also negligible
>safety lever longer to offer more leverage when frozen etc.
its also made of sheet metal
>an order of magnitude of more space in the trigger pack
multiple different types per gun exist
>when cleaning you can reach everything with just your fingers and a cloth
same with the AR
>In comparison to the AK the AR is a finicky gun.
i disagree, along with multiple other militaries
i own both guns, but i'd rather have the AR in a firefight, i do have more experience with an AK, yet i still prefer the AR
honest question, OP, do you have both guns &/or actual experience with them?
>can be adjusted via the buffer
This is not true. It is limited by the gas key, not the buffer.
>multiple different types per gun exist
All AK's and all AR-15 use the same respective anti pre-engagement system. For the AR, it's the slot in the upper receiver, for the AK it's the shelf on the bolt carrier.
>sort of, but not really, its negligible, and even when abused, will still work just as good as an AK
There are three high tolerance requirement fits between moving parts in the AR, gas tube+gas key, bolt+bolt carrier bore, bolt+firing pin channel, all require good fitment and also good surface finish for proper long term function. The AK only has the gas piston whose tolerance isn't as critical.
extractor
>multiple different types per gun exist
Not a good argument as the AK bolt simply has more space to mount a stronger bigger extractor
locking lugs with better balanced stresses
>negligible on a quality gun
The AK bolt will last the lifetime of the gun. The AR bolt has to be MPI'd to hell and back and made out of very high strength steel etc. and it will still break at 10 000 - 20 000 rounds. The army wanted higher velocities out of their carbines so they adopted a higher pressure round M855A1 and it breaks bolts in a couple thousand rounds. This is not negligible, the factor of safety is too low for no good reason, it is a design failure.
>>an order of magnitude of more space in the trigger pack
>multiple different types per gun exist
This is not true, have you ever seen inside an AK trigger pack?
>>when cleaning you can reach everything with just your fingers and a cloth
>same with the AR
You can't reach inside the trigger pack and the barrel extension nor much of the gas system though that last one is not really significant.
>i disagree, along with multiple other militaries
No military will disagree with that. Finickyness is not the only factor they consider when adopting guns.
What side rail?
The FDF one considering that that's a RK with the reindeer hide, M05, FDF chair -soldier's etc.
>The AK bolt will last the lifetime of the gun
That's because the lifetime of an AK is its barrel life, after which it gets dumped into the trash.
>The AR bolt has to be MPI'd to hell and back and made out of very high strength steel etc. and it will still break at 10 000 - 20 000 rounds.
bullshit
>The army wanted higher velocities out of their carbines so they adopted a higher pressure round M855A1 and it breaks bolts in a couple thousand rounds
More bullshit
>No military will disagree with that.
All militaries disagree with that. The only countries that use AK are the ones too poor to switch to ARs.
>The only countries that use AK are the ones too poor to switch to ARs.
I agree that India is poor. I also agree with the Israeli that dumping arms into Israel has harmed their domestic production abilities and left me not having a fancier Galil.
>The army wanted higher velocities out of their carbines so they adopted a higher pressure round M855A1 and it breaks bolts in a couple thousand rounds
I'm genuinely disappointed, you came across as someone actually knowledgeable on the nuances between the two rifle families and then you completely discredit yourself with this flagrant falsity. I actually stopped reading at that point. You had so much to offer, anon.
The M855A1 increased the chamber pressure from 52 000 PSI to 62 000 PSI to give M16 performance out of an M4 that the army so desperately desires (while still shunning bullpups). As a result the AR15 bolt that has stress levels that provide barely acceptable lifespan with normal pressures does not hold up long at all with the higher pressure rounds.
https://smallarmssolutions.com/home/the-m855a1
I think that this is a significant design failure since the designer should preplan for slight pressure variations of the future due to new cartridges etc. Acceptable lifespan at 62 000 PSI could have easily been achieved by making the lugs 1-2 mm longer or going for a 6 lug setup like most of the AR-18 clones have done neither of which would have affected the overall dimensions of the gun in a significant way.
>This is not true. It is limited by the gas key, not the buffer.
Yes it can. you can make the buffer heavier or put shims (quarters or washers) in the buffer tube to regulate the distances traveled by the bolt
You cannot extend the bolt stroke because the gas key bottoms out. Of course ypu could make it shorter by lengthening the buffer piece but who would want to do that?
>i own both guns, but i'd rather have the AR in a firefight, i do have more experience with an AK, yet i still prefer the AR
same and same
I love my AK and don't regret it in the least, it was my first rifle and I've put 5-6k through it over the years but when you start actually training on carbines it becomes abundantly clear why nobody uses them if they have a choice.
Ditto.
didn't ask
Don't care, get RPK'd, nerd.
Yeah. To see if a firearm design is truly great see if it is used for belt fed machine guns.
>ambidextrous controls
>bolt release and bolt hold open
>pic rail that holds zero
>left side charging handle
As much as I hate israelited I'll admit that the Galil ACE is the only good AK
It is horrendously fricking ugly though.
Like legitimately one of the ugliest guns there is.
Function over form
Does it hold zero or 'hold zero'?
1 moa or minute of man 'holding zero'? The Tavor has soured me on any expectations of Israeli guns being particularly accurate.
Are you going to be one of those guys who posts the same thing over and over again? Am I witnessing the birth of another autistic ritual spammer?
https://desuarchive.org/k/search/image/Z7ok-yuVB4EdyzuuyTLpWQ/
What's a good AK-derivative in this current modern AR-centric market? Can't find any reliable info on PSAs because just-as-good vs it-explodes-after-1000 rounds. The JAKL's Monolithic upper dick-riding can eat my poopy butthole.
Robinson XCR
7.62 x 39 is such a shit caliber that many soldiers shoot each other with it in training just to get a day off or see a nurse for a bandaid. With a FMJ round, it does less damage than getting poked by a screwdriver. I’ve heard that you don’t even get a Purple Heart for being hit with one, as most soldiers are more afraid of hornets and snake bites than 7.62 x 39. Plus, the range is only slightly better than the original muskets used in France prior 1650. The Glock 19 actually hold the record for longer confirmed shot. If that doesn’t convince you, recall that American force that got cutoff in Falluja 2005. Yeah, you remember that right? They ran out of ammo, and preferred using 9mm sidearms rather than picking up the AKs that were all around.
Now, if the round was 7.62 x 51, that would have changed everything. The sad truth is that Russians are born drunk, and they cannot control that much recoil. Their hands get shaky. This was all documented in Stalingrad.
ok noguns
>Now, if the round was 7.62 x 51, that would have changed everything. The sad truth is that Russians are born drunk, and they cannot control that much recoil. Their hands get shaky. This was all documented in Stalingrad.
lol dumb Black person
If 7.62x39 is such a bad round then why don’t you have a nice day center mass with one and tell us how it goes
>remember to timestamp
None of those bullshit technicalities matter and the only reason AK gets shilled as more reliable is vatBlack person propaganda and slightly more robust mags.
I like it because the gas stays away from my face
>>bolt assembly weight
>>bolt carrier / bolt weight ratio
Not relevant in a 1st world produced rifle
>>bolt assembly overtravel distance after/behind the magazine
>>a superior anti pre-engagement system for bolt turning lifted off of the Garand
Ok
>>the AR gas system is more complicated with many tightly toleranced fits that wear and let by gas, it requires even goddamn gas rings to achieve sufficient sealing
Read: more versatile
extractor
ejector
locking lugs with better balanced stresses
extraction
Yeah whatever, this means nothing in the real world
>>more robust magazines designed from the ground up with beefy feed lips and constant curvature
We'll get back to this point at the end
>>more tapered cartridges (not inherent to the gun)
So not relevant at all
>>rock lock magazine offering leverage to insert magazine
It's all about training
magazine catch does not freeze unlike a sliding one
lever longer to offer more leverage when frozen etc.
I never had mine freeze, not on my service RK nor my AR
>>an order of magnitude of more space in the trigger pack
Yeah no shit, it's a different trigger pack
>>when cleaning you can reach everything with just your fingers and a cloth
Again, not a real issue
>In comparison to the AK the AR is a finicky gun.
Not really. What a lot of this screams is that the AK is a gun for countries with negligible industrial capability (poor production quality (soviet block, middle-east, china) or limited production runs (Finland 1950's-1990's.)) so you need to get every penny out of the guns, while the AR is a modern day gun for modern day countries (NATO, South-Korea) who don't suffer from industrial limitations.
>Not relevant in a 1st world produced rifle
>physical realities don't apply in western countries
uhh ok??
Circling back to the last point you'd see that 1st world countries are more than capable of producing "finicky" guns because they can produce more complex parts, which AK-pattern reliant countries cannot
The AR is not inherently significantly different from the AK to manufacture.
>Read: more versatile
>implying you swap calibers or barrel lengths >ever
I personally may not swap them ever, but the same basic platform can be used with minor adjustments to create a variety of calibers and/or configurations
There are factory-produced AKs in every caliber from 30-06 all the way down to 22lr. It's a non-argument since both firearms are equally "versatile."
>factory-produced AKs
>you can't chamber AR's in 7.62x39
You can and they have
you can change the caliber of an AR in like 5 minutes, unpinning a barrel and then repining a new one and head spacing is not viable
But it's not even true, for example the tiny and weak AR-15 bolt can't handle 7.62x39 sized cases so they had to come up with a brand new cartridge to mimic 7.62x39 because you can't chamber AR's in that.
Okay so this thread is just a big shitpost then huh?
The .300 AAC Blackout is 7.62x39 but for AR's and nothing else. There's absolutely no denying that.
Both have a 30 cal bullet weighing somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 grains going around 2400 fps. There's literally no difference other than case taper.
>There's literally no difference other than case taper.
Yeah this is a shitpost thread.
The shittiest ballistics in the shittiest platform. I'd rather have it the complete other way around, a high velocity round with great terminal performance in a reliable weapon platform.
>talking about .300 as a supersonic round when the whole fricking point is for it to be ran subsonic with a SBR+suppressor
this thread is a fricking riot
Doesn't matter what the fricking "point" is. It being identical in volume and caliber to 7.62x39 means that it is also identical in performance, ie. you can load 7.62x39 subsonic just as easily if you so desire there's nothing stopping you.
And in fact unlike an AR to run an AK suppressed and with subsonic you don't even need an adjustable gas system because the gun is reliably gassed and has plenty of bolt travel to overcome variations in gas port pressure.
x39 is better than 300 in every way.
>t being identical in volume and caliber to 7.62x39 means that it is also identical in performance,
Oh wow you really are a noguns homosexual lmao, I bet if you had cross-sectional density and ballistic coefficient thrown at you your head would pop
Any bullet weight you can load in .300 you can load in 7.62x39, are you moronic?
Did you know that hilariously enough recently the frogs adopted an SBR rifle in 7.62x39 because it's the same fricking thing as .300 hahahaha
There's more to a round than weight you blithering noguns. God you're embarrassing.
Okay come on big guy, tell me a single thing the .300 can do that the 7.62x39 cannot (other than being loaded into STANAG mags)
In regards to subsonics?
>Cost less
>Have wider availability
>Better, more varied bullet types
Again, I don't expect a noguns to understand, but if you shot you would.
you can also make it by literally just circumcising 5.56 cases and using any .308 bullet. all while being shot out of a non-shit rifle. 7.62x39 doesn't have a leg to stand on...
>Cost less
>Have wider availability
>Better, more varied bullet types
>everyone has an AR and loads of mags so many people buy into .300 and demand drives supply
So literally nothing other than fitting into STANAG mags, okay, got it.
Damn, noguns and illiterate. Tragic. Have a good afternoon anon.
You've still provided zero inherent advantages the .300 has over 7.62x39 other than fitting into STANAG mags hahahaha
.300 Blackout is the same fricking cartridge the soviets came up with in 1943 and you fricking morons act like it's some revolutionary shit
>a single thing the .300 can do that the 7.62x39 cannot
>(other than being loaded into STANAG mags)
Lmfao that's reason enough to want it
Well yeah, basically. A 7.62x39 that fits into the AR-15 was made and it suddenly became the hottest shit out there all the while people shit on 7.62x39 with every second breath.
Dude are you okay
he's (you) farming and you're enabling it
Someone is trying to tell me that .300 Blackout has inherent advantages over 7.62x39 and then all he says is "it fits into STANAG" so idk what to tell you..
He's an AKtard (who doesn't own an AK) and is wanting a win to fill the gaping void of his life for a bit,
Yeah like extensive marketing, which is what Q used to launch the 300 BO.
It's a stupid fricking round thats good for blowing up ARs when the mags get accidentally swapped. Most people that buy into 300 BO don't even own cans making it doubly moronic.
Got any figures on that, chief
My x39 AR15 by BCA has lasted 300 rounds. My Diamondback in 5.56 had a cotter pin blow the firing pin out in only about 90 rounds.
Don't expect it to last too long, remember to wear eye protection. Pic related is how a 7.62x39 AR-15 bolt head should look like.
The BCAs are thickened.
Anon, the AK requires far more industrial power and experience to manufacture properly than the AR15.
This is extremely basic information.
>Anon, the AK requires far more industrial power and experience to manufacture properly than the AR15.
Thaaaat's not true.
The receiver is made out of aluminum, and can be CNC'd with ease by hicks. Or milled out with an old school milling machine if necessary.
And the bolt can be made on a lathe, basically.
The most complicated part of manufacture is probably broaching out the chamber.
I'm not really counting barrels because those are equally difficult in almost all guns.
The AR15 has a pretty old-school design as far as being made of almost all machined parts compared to stampings. Except it swapped old steel for aluminum, which makes it easy to machine on fairly cheap tools.
It also happened to be easily done on a CNC set up. Although it was made before those really were a thing.
The AK by comparison has about as much machining in its bolt carrier as the entire AR receiver.
And stamping and welding the trunions into place takes either great attention to detail, or great industrial tolerancing.
And the barrel being press-fit rather than threaded into place also requires specialty tools again.
The AK is a much more intense gun to manufacture.
Stamping and welding is not difficult. 1mm steel bends real easy.
Now thar there AK bolt carrier? Wouldn't want to even try that with a manual mill.
You're not meant to make an AK bolt/carrier on a single machine. That's the whole point. You have a long line of machine tools that make one or two operations each and are calibrated to do so repeatably and reliably.
You feed in the blank on one end of the production line, and on the other end you get the finished product. It's a generally efficient way of doing mass production in the pre-CNC age.
Yeah but still, most of the features on the AR bolt carrier can be done on the lathe and of the milled features only the cam pin path is kinda tricky.
This plus correctly forging and machining the barrel trunnion must be a b***h and a half to get right, along with all the other components that get populated onto the barrel. It's a lot of industrialized autism with a giant startup cost, for the benefit of being able to shit out thousands and thousands of rifles 'cheaply' once you're past the initial hurdle of setting up the frickspensive manufacturing line. It makes the AR-15 manufacture look simple in comparison, though there's obviously still a lot that goes into making those too.
As for which rifle is better, I like them both tbh.
Not really tbh
I'd say they're fairly similar
>reciprocating charging handle
>2024
Reciprocating charging handle is superior because it gives you a method of directly actuating the bolt forwards and backwards and also adds to the bolt mass without adding to the mass of the gun.
Like a forward assist? Also presents more problems than it fixes. There’s a reason FN removed the reciprocating charging handle on the SCAR.
A fixed charging handle is better than a forward assist because it adds mass to the bolt without adding mass to the gun. It was implemented poorly on the SCAR.
Fricking moron lmao, why do you keep saying that? What does adding an ounce or two of steel to the right side of the bolt do besides throw off the recoil pattern? It’s not like it’s a blowback firearm.
>inb4 heavier bolt means less recoil or more reliability fuddlore
Please educate yourself, bolt carrier mass and bolt mass are incredibly significant for gas operated automatic weapons.
Not watching that ESL bullshit, reliability/recoil has more to do with how a rifle is gassed rather than the weight of the bolt. It’s common sense.
Demonstrably untrue.
Reciprocating mass, bolt cam path geometry and gas system length/gas port size are vital for reliable and desirable shooting characteristics anon.
Jim Sullivan has talked about this at length.
The actual weight of the bolt itself is extremely important for controlling its velocity, not just rearwards, but forwards.
Bolt weight matters more than gassing, because gas pressure drops off far earlier in the cycling pattern.
This
You need enough mass to hold onto some momentum, slows the carrier on the rearward and forward stroke, and a bit more mass makes the rifle extract and feed more reliably in adverse conditions.
>bitching about AR mags
Hey gramps it's not 1969 anymore, we've moved past the shitty disposable aluminum 20 rounders. PMAGs are turbo reliable.
show me a 60 year old AR mag that still runs after fighting in multiple wars.
the autism 15 is really a pointless endeavor when you understand that both the ak and ar under military contract achieve the basically the same groupings at common fighting distances
so it's shoots a turbocharged anemic round, requires lube all the time for it's tight holes, needs a total retrofit if you want to shoot suppressed properly, requires buffer changes if you want to shoot different ammo properly, it's a total pain in the ass with no upside other than weight, which makes it great as a beginner gun
i would give it to pre teens to learn how to maintain a gun, and show them a piece of shit that doesn't work unless you cover all the bases
meanwhile in ak land, the 7.62 kalash just fricking shows up and works, it's only detraction is that it doesn't have an ambi safety
That’s why Russians are still using 7.62x39 right?
what armies and governments do don't matter, you think the best performers get selected by bean counters? call mommy, it's time for your nappy
10mm sucks too
yea, but that's not the point
I just assumed you were a 10mm fanboy as well. You come across as one of the “bigger is better” morons.
>meanwhile in ak land, the 7.62 kalash just fricking shows up and works
?si=RxNEW43CRRHQg3HK&t=1090
>Oops! AKM failed the mud test while the KAC SR-15 was tossing brass easily through a thick mud-butthole right over the ejection port
The AR15 action is more reliable than the AK action due to the following reasons:
Deez Nuts
>it requires even goddamn gas rings to achieve sufficient sealing
your car has "gas rings" that move up and down 100 times a second and it runs for 300k miles without issue
that's not an argument
Yes it is an argument since almost no other gun has them.
If your car was the only model using gas rings without any observable benefit you would be correct to question them as well.
>ad populum argument to defend a false argument
You’re bad at this kek
>your car has gas rings so it make sense to have them on a completely different type of machine
>in this category of machines only this specific model uses them so it doesn't make sense on that basis
>nooo you can't say that!!!! that's a fallacy!!!!
I'm sorry what?
Gas rings are common in firearms.
Name one, other than the AR-10/15
Hk416
Rekt
Cars also have gears and counterweights for 'recoil' of their 'actions', but when the Russians shoved them in their 'balanced recoil' guns, everyone laughed.
Cars are way more complicated machines than firearms.
Almost impressive how cheap they are by comparison.
>Cars are way more complicated machines than firearms.
>Almost impressive how cheap they are by comparison.
Yeah you're right, that is actually crazy. The engine alone...
this another thread where some noguns (more than like foreigngays at that) try to use selected data to push contrarian viewpoints despite not having any real experience with the topic in question?
AKs are vastly superior to ARs. ARs are guns produced by peak capitalism:
>designed to break as much as possible
>to sell you more shit
>to outdated specifications not because the specs are good but because there are no patents
Many such cases.
>bolt assembly weight
totally irrelevant when a rifle as gassed correctly
>bolt carrier / bolt weight ratio
as above
>bolt assembly overtravel distance after/behind the magazine
irrelevant when a buffer is present
>the AR gas system is more complicated with many tightly toleranced fits that wear and let by gas, it requires even goddamn gas rings to achieve sufficient sealing
gas rings will outlive the barrel on an AR platform rifle on non-shit bolts
>stronger extractor
extractor will outlive the barrel on non-shit rifles
>bigger locking lugs with better balanced stresses
has literally never been an issue except on out-of-tolerance rifles or 7.62x39 conversions
>more robust magazines designed from the ground up with beefy feed lips and constant curvature
literally no one ever has complained about STANAGs
>more tapered cartridges (not inherent to the gun)
doesn't matter
>rock lock magazine offering leverage to insert magazine
just smack the fricking thing
>safety lever longer to offer more leverage when frozen etc.
irritatingly bad ergonomics until it was fixed after like 60 years
>an order of magnitude of more space in the trigger pack
who cares
>when cleaning you can reach everything with just your fingers and a cloth
one fricking pin and the AR is taken down, without having to jimmy the dustcover around optics mounts
I own a WASR10/63 and a VEPR AK74, they're fine
AR issues were due to morons failing to maintain them and being told to run them dry in a shitty environment with dogshit disposable magazines being reused. those issues were resolved by like 1970.
Claiming that a non-dogshit out of spec AR is unreliable is like claiming that one of today's AK's are 3MOA rifles because "russian terrorist rifle"
>totally irrelevant when a rifle as gassed correctly
Go shoot a racer bolt carrier gun and tell me it's irrelevant for reliability.
>irrelevant when a buffer is present
You fricking moron honestly. Buffer has nothing to do with overtravel distance behind the magazine which has been identified as a major source of reliability ever since the MP40 which was then recognized and copied for the PPS-43 and subsequent soviet designs.
>gas rings will outlive the barrel on an AR platform rifle on non-shit bolts
Yeah if the bolt carrier bore is ground to an autistically precise tolerance which increases the manufacturing price for no reason when other gas systems don't need this.
>literally no one ever has complained about STANAGs
What did he mean by this???
>just smack the fricking thing
yeah
>one fricking pin and the AR is taken down, without having to jimmy the dustcover around optics mounts
Implying that the takedown procedure is superior on the AR is the absolute peak of dimwit mountain when you need a pin to push the takedown pin out, to take your gloves off at the very least to remove the firing pin retainer, and then you lose said retainer and cam pin in the grass. The AR is fine if you're on the range and can lay out your parts on a well lit clean surface etc. but a nightmare outdoors.
Post any guns you own.
>You fricking moron honestly. Buffer has nothing to do with overtravel distance behind the magazine which has been identified as a major source of reliability ever since the MP40 which was then recognized and copied for the PPS-43 and subsequent soviet designs.
Schizo screeching. The AR-15 bolt travels as far as it needs to to be reliable. Literally nobody has ever complained about this.
>Yeah if the bolt carrier bore is ground to an autistically precise tolerance which increases the manufacturing price for no reason when other gas systems don't need this.
Literally only a problem for turdies who don't have even remotely modern machine tools. AR bolts aren't precision by modern manufacturing standards.
>What did he mean by this???
He means your point about mags is moronic. STANAGS are fine and modern PMAGS are better than any AK mag that isn't also a PMAG.
>Implying that the takedown procedure is superior on the AR is the absolute peak of dimwit mountain when you need a pin to push the takedown pin out, to take your gloves off at the very least to remove the firing pin retainer, and then you lose said retainer and cam pin in the grass. The AR is fine if you're on the range and can lay out your parts on a well lit clean surface etc. but a nightmare outdoors.
Noguns. You can push the pin out with your bare fingers, even when gloved. If its that tight you can use a bullet.
>Schizo screeching. The AR-15 bolt travels as far as it needs to to be reliable. Literally nobody has ever complained about this.
Military M4's are overgassed a lot more than they would have to be if they'd have a longer bolt stroke.
And if you perfectly gas your rifle now it doesn't work with underpowered calibers/in cold weather/when extra friction is introduced to the bolt
There is absolutely no reason for the AR to not have a longer bolt stroke other than bad design because the action is already extremely long so a compact receiver is not an excuse.
On the gassing, did you know that you can actually tune an AK to be softer shooting than an AR for a given caliber and given bolt mass while still retaining reliability? Bolt stroke length matters.
Did you know that Jim Sullivan has recently patented a special gas key design whose main purpose is to give the AR bolt just half an inch of more stroke, it's that significant!
>you need a pin to push the takedown pin out
No you don't
>you need to take the pin out entirely so you can lose it in the grass for some reason
Black person what the frick you're moronic. The pin is pushed but doesn't pop out, it's retained and stays on the receiver for a reason, so you don't fricking lose it lmao.
>The pin is pushed but doesn't pop out, it's retained and stays on the receiver for a reason, so you don't fricking lose it lmao.
noguns arguing over what gun is better is always funny, its worse than ever since all the nogun tarkov/guntube people showed up thinking they're experts without ever holding the gun they're discussing
also war tourists have no guns and also wanna be experts, it's pathetic
you'd think that after a decade in Vietnam, multiple decades in cold war exercises, two decades in the sandbox, years in Ukraine and multiple programs to replace it these people would stop and think "hey, maybe it's flaws are overstated, or I don't know shit about them"
The poles have arguably the most modern AK (besides MAYBE the ACE) and theyre replacing it with their own design that's yet another ar18 derivative with its own furniture.
I like my ZAS M90, (and my FAL), but they're both heavy hunks of shit compared to my AR even with the TA11 attached
>>you need to take the pin out entirely so you can lose it in the grass for some reason
Who the frick are you quoting moron?
>His firing pin retaining is a capitalist cotter pin
>Not an original bolt style pin
Ngmi
why would you ever be removing the retaining pin in the field?
Because they break easily from heat contraction. Have you ever fired more than thirty rounds from an AR before?
what part breaks?
I have a frick ton of ARs and never had any of them break
and I shoot every week, not at a range, in the desert mag dumping into trash
I've shot at least 10k rounds out of the colt AR
The firing pin retaining pin. It's a hairthin cotter pin. The original design of the AR called for a thicker bolt to hold the firing pin.
I've never seen one break and I shoot every week and all my friends shoot
out of like 100 ARs I've shot I've never seen that pin give an issue
>Because they break easily from heat contraction
I built mine from a crusty abused parts kit from SEA and it's still rocking its original pin. I magdump that shit and it still runs like a champ. Don't project your fricking headcanon, or just stop buying shitty Poverty State Armory ARs with potmetal pins and acting like they're representative of all ARs.
> or just stop buying shitty Poverty State Armory ARs with potmetal pins and acting like they're representative of all ARs.
Even then it's bullshit, I've got a PSA BCG from like 2014 that's been stuck in my A1 clone and seen shitloads of use that still has the OG pin in it. I still need to pry it out with needlenose pliers whenever I do a cleaning.
I'm glad retro builds are back
>break easily from heat contraction. Have you ever fired more than thirty rounds from an AR before?
What in the absolute frick is this? Reading through this thread I can only hope it's just one dedicated shitposter spewing this kind of moronation because I'm seeing more AR fuddlore in it than an AKFiles c2006.
If you aren't going to clean the dirtiest part of the gun, the gas piston, why ever disassemble it anyway?
I've never cleaned inside my bolt on any of my guns and they have thousands of rounds through them, just a simple wipe down with an oily rag and slap it back together
First, they weren't talking about the firing pin, they were talking about the receiver pin, that's pretty obvious. Second, you aren't taking the out in the field.
no they don't. Over multiple ARs I've had over the years and thousands of rounds fired I have never had a firing pin or retaining pin fail.
>First, they weren't talking about the firing pin, they were talking about the receiver pin
>take your gloves off at the very least to remove the firing pin retainer, and then you lose said retainer and cam pin in the grass
Reading comprehension much?
Yes, but time has shown
Accuracy/ergos>reliabilty/durability
At least when it comes to assymetrical warfare with good logistical support.
You're an idiot. Regurgitating words you see on youtube does you no favors.
lmao sure thing pal
>picrel, when your ak shits inside its own butthole
Sorry I'm not an AK expert. Could you explain the image anon?
Looks like some serious fricky wucky business happened and somehow resulted in the FCG retainer getting mangled. I wanna know how that happened because HOW.
out of battery?
Too bad 7.62X39 is so inefficient compared to 5.56
It only loses in the category of accuracy at 200-300 meters.
It loses at everything. It can't use it's energy in a human target as effectively due to lack of impact velocity. Sometimes it doesn't even tumble and literally just produces an icepick wound.
None of it matters because you've left a gaping slot in the side of the receiver, a problem solved by everyone else since the 1960s.
>bro just keep flipping the safety between shots
what actually goes on with AKs in the real world
> serious parts incompatibility issues due to the wide range of manufacturers, making maintenance a pain in the ass
> serious magazine incompatibility, for instance a steel Chinese mag will not lock into an izmash ak.
> related to the previous issue, the pivoting magazine catch may stick, requiring impact from an other mag to release
>overall poor quality of steel used for trunions and bolts makes it hard to predict the lifespan of said parts, i'v seen some aks fail after 12k rounds.
> FCU pin retention method varies greatly from plates to wires with different path making it hard to service the FCU in the field.
> tolerances issues and weak connector springs makes it likely that the gun will fire two or even three rounds in semi after some time, had this issue on izmash, feg, polytech, sdm and zastava
> the carrier slams into the rear trunnion, deforming the tail of the carrier and bending the rivets of the rear trunnion.
> poor alignment of rear sight block, gas block and front sight is the norm and hard to fix
> fixed ejector is fine as long as it's in good shape, any issue with the ejector is hard to fix
and so on and so on, I like AKs, they're great guns, but it's greatly overhyped
>serious magazine incompatibility, for instance a steel Chinese mag will not lock into an izmash ak.
Galil ACE and zpap owner, I have never had an AK mag not fit except one milsurp chinc one that got crushed at some point in the Yugo wars. I just wailed on it with a rubber mallet and it works fine.
Stop buying shitty American AKs I guess.
I'm a gunsmith in Switzerland Black person, I may have seen a couple more variants of ak than you, and I'm telling you from experience that I'v hade to touch up mags retention tabs on both polymer and steel variants on multiple occasions because there was a locking issue with the mag.
>I'm a gunsmith
Oh very respectable!
>in Switzerland
Nevermind.
u jelly?
Bro he is living the life
>society that basically forces you to get a gun
>and its a fricking SIG 550
>totally neutral country
>country is so high trust your shooting range has you shoot over a highway
>anon is a gunsmith in said country
I'm fricking jealous and you are too
>not allowed to shoot a rifle outside of a shooting range
I'm good, I'd rather live in a free country where I can shoot in the desert alone in peace wherever I want
also you can make guns legally in America without ever registering them or letting the government even know you own it, as well as having ammo mailed to my front door, and gun parts kits like polymer 80s which can be turned into a Glock in an hour of work, meaning you can get an unregistered gun and ammo mailed to your front door if you do a little drilling into the plastic to make the pin hole
eurocucks stay btfo
>SIG 550
>a gun so gay they put a rubber vegana on it
>Country is so high trust they dont let you take the ammo home
Listen im no ak apologist, but i am an owner, a properly built 7.62 ak shouldn't have any fitment issues.
My 5.56 ak though is a nightmare finding mags that fir
jesus what is this thread, AKBlack person Coping Anonymous?
Basically correct.
The AK is a strong heart trapped in a failing body.
The Kalashnikov action is the best ever developed in a shoulder rifle. It is just trapped in a skeleton that should have been fixed decades ago.
There’s only a few things that need to be improved upon IMO.
>the desperate need for piccatany rails and modern stocks/attachment points
>actually usable iron sights
>better rifling
>better ballistic caliber
they could also probably make the stroke gas more internalized for better balance like the sig 550 that some anon mentioned
That reminds me…didnt the vatniks theoretically fix all or most of these issues with the AK-12?
Theoretically they did.
Practically shit build quality ruined it.
not once has OP posted gun
suspicious
Well everyone already knew this. For harsh conditions it's AK all the way. My 16" aero and 14.5" bcm AR's are nice and very well machined, but they are flimsy compared to AK's
Speaking as someone who is pretty nogunz here, i’ve only fired ARs and AKs on a small few occasions but I find myself gravitating towards AKs. The ergos and controls feel a lot better to me for some reason. I’m not a fan of the charging bolt on ARs, is it possible to modify those in any meaningful way to make the operation more smooth?
I also do love piston stroke(no homo), direct impingement just seems like a funky concept and it got our military into a lot deep shit during actual conflicts until they ironed out the kinks.
I know for modern environments that’s virtually meaningless but…still, reliability is reliability.
IIRC I think most modern militaries are moving to short stroke platforms, correct me if I’m wrong.
>AK
>ergos and controls feel a lot better
this thread is the most hilarious shit posted on /k/ in weeks lmfao
I like ak ergos (or lack of them) more than the ar's. It just works damn well, and very intuitive. Even a blind monkey can learn to use them without any teaching. All you got is a big ass selector, charging handle and magazine release that you can manhandle even while wearing huge gloves filled with frozen rocks and shit. You simply can't frick it up
>All you got is a big ass selector
like the one on the AR that's right next to your thumb so you can quickly turn if off?
>charging handle
like the one that's right there just waiting to be grabbed and it's ambi?
>mag release
like the one that's right in front of your index finger so you can just tap it real quick and the mag shoots out off the gun?
Yep, but theyre are pretty small and you can't manhandle them while wearing huge gloves filled with frozen rocks and shit. I just like the ak more, simple as. I live near the arctic circle tho so that influences my decision a lot
can I see your AK and AR
It's just a saiga and wbp jack nothing special. I shoot my friends ar's and lend them for matches every now and then. As nice as the ar is the only malfunctions I've had were on ar's especially during winter. They can really choke hard if not lubed correctly in cold weather
The AR charging handle is a finicky piece of shit
uhhhh, sorry? AK is essentially more intuitive(to me).
All things being equal(such as caliber) I like the recoil impulse better too for piston stroke. Feels more…mechanical.
idk could be remembering wrong only shot each like twice, the AK was modernized so lighter and probably better balanced than a wooden furniture one but…ye
Bought this Valmet "Petra / Hunter" .308.
For 670 usd, did i make a bad buy?
Petra is a fine fat Finnish girl. You got the "newer" button safety version? They also made them with the tradional ak style safety that were really easy to convert into normal ak layout with a pistol grip, handguard etc