>why did they start being BTFO'D during the middle-late Neolithic by Hunters?
That's a real mystery. I've been trying to understand it for a while but I can't find a decent explanation. I thought maybe the hunters just assimilated into Farmer society, but then why would it be so male-oriented, especially in Britain where nearly every Farmer sample had haplogroup I2a while still being mostly Anatolian autosomally. Could it be mass rape? Were they conquered and ruled over by Hunters? That actually seems the most likely explanation as far as I can tell. And why did it take a while for this to happen? I'm guessing for the first few centuries the Farmers were few in number and their settlements didn't encroach on Hunter territory, but as time passed and their numbers grew they came into more direct contact with the Hunters, who felt their territory was being threatened.
I don't think it's a mystery that agriculturalists are inherently vulnerable to ransacking, unlike hunters or pastoralists who need to protect their livestock (which can also be moved or run from intruders) as a regular part if their lifestyle, or have few critical items that could be ruined.
This eventually lead to the need of nobility, who were fed in exchange for keeping intruders out.
Tell me about neolithic farmers, why did they start being BTFO'D during the middle-late Neolithic by Hunters?
It happened throughout all of Europe at roughly the same time to different farmer groups.
So probably it was largely an environmental impetus.
I'm not well versed on this but it also seems plausible that primitive farming societies were inherently fragile for whatever reason. It just seems believable that the impact of continent-wide harvest failure would be devastating to neolithic communities.
It's also believable based on how much uniparental turnover there was across Europe (not referring even to CW migrations) that they culturally were fairly willing to integrate outsider men if necessary.
>agriculturalists are inherently vulnerable to ransacking
Did agriculturalists build town walls because of ransacking vagabonds?
Or did hunter/herders build walls, and develop agriculture as a side effect?
Like I said, the "transitioning Hunters" are always distinguishable from real Farmers by their material culture. I doubt that they could ever copy the Farmers perfectly. The best they could do was a superficial imitation of Farmer culture:
[...]
Balkan I2 comes from early Slavs. It's haplogroup I2a-CTS10228, which exists among all Slavic groups and is found in medieval Russian samples. It just became more common in South Slavic populations through founder effect.
So the Farmers in northern Europe came directly from Anatolian Farmer societies, not brand new societies created by Hunters.
In fact Chalcolithic iberian art looks like a flat low quality imitation of Neolithic Anatolian art.
Picrel Venus from Neolithic vs Venus from Chalcolithic.
Tell me about neolithic farmers, why did they start being BTFO'D during the middle-late Neolithic by Hunters?
Think of Tamerlane, then think of the Mongols, then of the Turks, Goturks, Huns, Avars, going back to the Scythians and Cymerians.
They were almost unbeatable, and civilized societies had no answer against horse riders of the steppes until the 1600s and 1700s, very late in history, when Moscow and China finally managed to blow the frick out of them.
Indoeuropeans were the first ones of that kind, the first horseriding steppe Black folk, they invented the greatest military technology ever, so they spread from europe to india because all other societies had no antibodies against horseriding steppeBlack folk.
and these steppe people are often genocidal, not out of hatred, but out of preferring land to be grass for their horses and cattle, to it being farmland.
my take is that since farmers were more settled their graves are easier to find so there's a phantom population of hunters not accounted for until they start genetically assimilating the farmers.
Anon, we all know that the Hunters were there all along. The question is why did the Farmers' paternal haploroup suddenly switch from G2a to I2a? My theory is this:
But then why would they have mostly Anatolian Farmer DNA? Besides, there is no example anywhere in Europe to my knowledge of Hunters becoming indistinguishable from Anatolian Farmers by their own efforts. The best they could do was a poor imitation of Farmers. Some Hunters produced small amounts of grain, made simple pottery and lived in small permanent settlements, but they were always clearly distinguishable from the real Farmers.
Balkan I2 comes from early Slavs. It's haplogroup I2a-CTS10228, which exists among all Slavic groups and is found in medieval Russian samples. It just became more common in South Slavic populations through founder effect.
When I think of Neolithic farmers I think of swarthy, but still light-skinned (yellowish olive), big brown eyes and dark straight-wavy hair people akin to romans.
interesting. However the genetic evidence suggests that lighter skin and brown eyes came to europe from middle eastern farmers (ironically) while western hunter gatherers were dark skinned and blue eyed .
Neolithics were "light"-skinned as OP girl is. They were not pink as northern yuros are today. The pink skin comes from later developments around the baltic.
I mean how would we even go about proving this point ?
The only possibility is if there is evidence of climate change coinciding with this supposed haplogroup shift , that would suggest a rise in conflict over resources
Nothing to "prove". All we know is that these farmer communities who were prominently G2a got I2a'd badly, all while remaining mostly farmer. They got invaded and dominated by a new elite of hunter men who would have most likely killed all the men and replaced them.
Technically the Is stopped R1a from pushing into Denmark. R1b bred I women and assimilated into the Germanic speaker populations though. Is then created danelaw and did the same. Then R1b took over Danelaw Is again united as English. It’s all back and forth mixing and matching.
I just wish to remind morons here that people back then didn't know their haplogroups. Cucking events were even more common than today, since people had no way to check if the child is truly theirs.
This is why you cream-pie heavily over and over again every day constantly 24/7 7 days a week 365 days a year. Multiple time during ovulation. So many babies would make it hard for any distractions.
They created Europe, the only prehistoric legacy in countries as Britain, Germany, etc., is from Anatolians.
Euskaro-Caucasian culture was peak civilized, from Gobleki-tepians to minoans, megalithistics and sumerians.
Idk. You have to remember that current Southern Europeans are Steppe/EEF mutts and EEF themselves were part WHG mutts. The original EEFs were definitely lighter than modern MENA types but idk about the features.
Neolithic "men" had low fertility and needed external help.
>why did they start being BTFO'D during the middle-late Neolithic by Hunters?
That's a real mystery. I've been trying to understand it for a while but I can't find a decent explanation. I thought maybe the hunters just assimilated into Farmer society, but then why would it be so male-oriented, especially in Britain where nearly every Farmer sample had haplogroup I2a while still being mostly Anatolian autosomally. Could it be mass rape? Were they conquered and ruled over by Hunters? That actually seems the most likely explanation as far as I can tell. And why did it take a while for this to happen? I'm guessing for the first few centuries the Farmers were few in number and their settlements didn't encroach on Hunter territory, but as time passed and their numbers grew they came into more direct contact with the Hunters, who felt their territory was being threatened.
I don't think it's a mystery that agriculturalists are inherently vulnerable to ransacking, unlike hunters or pastoralists who need to protect their livestock (which can also be moved or run from intruders) as a regular part if their lifestyle, or have few critical items that could be ruined.
This eventually lead to the need of nobility, who were fed in exchange for keeping intruders out.
It happened throughout all of Europe at roughly the same time to different farmer groups.
So probably it was largely an environmental impetus.
I'm not well versed on this but it also seems plausible that primitive farming societies were inherently fragile for whatever reason. It just seems believable that the impact of continent-wide harvest failure would be devastating to neolithic communities.
It's also believable based on how much uniparental turnover there was across Europe (not referring even to CW migrations) that they culturally were fairly willing to integrate outsider men if necessary.
>agriculturalists are inherently vulnerable to ransacking
Did agriculturalists build town walls because of ransacking vagabonds?
Or did hunter/herders build walls, and develop agriculture as a side effect?
Hunters adopted agrian lifestyle while maintained hunter culture, so conquered the rest of tribes and mixed with them diluting their own genes.
Like I said, the "transitioning Hunters" are always distinguishable from real Farmers by their material culture. I doubt that they could ever copy the Farmers perfectly. The best they could do was a superficial imitation of Farmer culture:
So the Farmers in northern Europe came directly from Anatolian Farmer societies, not brand new societies created by Hunters.
In fact Chalcolithic iberian art looks like a flat low quality imitation of Neolithic Anatolian art.
Picrel Venus from Neolithic vs Venus from Chalcolithic.
Think of Tamerlane, then think of the Mongols, then of the Turks, Goturks, Huns, Avars, going back to the Scythians and Cymerians.
They were almost unbeatable, and civilized societies had no answer against horse riders of the steppes until the 1600s and 1700s, very late in history, when Moscow and China finally managed to blow the frick out of them.
Indoeuropeans were the first ones of that kind, the first horseriding steppe Black folk, they invented the greatest military technology ever, so they spread from europe to india because all other societies had no antibodies against horseriding steppeBlack folk.
and these steppe people are often genocidal, not out of hatred, but out of preferring land to be grass for their horses and cattle, to it being farmland.
you're confused. the discussion is about Neolithic farmers from near east and native european hunter gatherers. Indo-Europeans came later
my take is that since farmers were more settled their graves are easier to find so there's a phantom population of hunters not accounted for until they start genetically assimilating the farmers.
Anon, we all know that the Hunters were there all along. The question is why did the Farmers' paternal haploroup suddenly switch from G2a to I2a? My theory is this:
Maybe hunters started farming
But then why would they have mostly Anatolian Farmer DNA? Besides, there is no example anywhere in Europe to my knowledge of Hunters becoming indistinguishable from Anatolian Farmers by their own efforts. The best they could do was a poor imitation of Farmers. Some Hunters produced small amounts of grain, made simple pottery and lived in small permanent settlements, but they were always clearly distinguishable from the real Farmers.
Balkan I2 comes from early Slavs. It's haplogroup I2a-CTS10228, which exists among all Slavic groups and is found in medieval Russian samples. It just became more common in South Slavic populations through founder effect.
Right but those slavs have hunter daddies.
cute girl. I'm curious,OP, as to why you would choose her as the neolithic farmer phenotype other than her being swarthy and dark haired
When I think of Neolithic farmers I think of swarthy, but still light-skinned (yellowish olive), big brown eyes and dark straight-wavy hair people akin to romans.
interesting. However the genetic evidence suggests that lighter skin and brown eyes came to europe from middle eastern farmers (ironically) while western hunter gatherers were dark skinned and blue eyed .
Neolithics were "light"-skinned as OP girl is. They were not pink as northern yuros are today. The pink skin comes from later developments around the baltic.
Anglos might have pink skin but Scandos have yellowish skin (for being blonde). They can tan well too.
She dont look roman or like this tho
Uh, anon
she looks roman, she is from spain but could easily pass as an italian
I mean how would we even go about proving this point ?
The only possibility is if there is evidence of climate change coinciding with this supposed haplogroup shift , that would suggest a rise in conflict over resources
Nothing to "prove". All we know is that these farmer communities who were prominently G2a got I2a'd badly, all while remaining mostly farmer. They got invaded and dominated by a new elite of hunter men who would have most likely killed all the men and replaced them.
and then 12a's got killed and replaced by R steppe warrior men
...except balkans and skandis, who would cuck the steppefreaks.
>balkans
Last stronghold of I cucks hiding in the mountains
>scandinavia
dominated by R haplo
>>scandinavia
>dominated by R haplo
Uhmm... that's wrong sweetie. Over 50% of Central swedes belong to I1
l1 in Scandianvia came from Indo-Europeans.
Technically the Is stopped R1a from pushing into Denmark. R1b bred I women and assimilated into the Germanic speaker populations though. Is then created danelaw and did the same. Then R1b took over Danelaw Is again united as English. It’s all back and forth mixing and matching.
She is part gypsy.
>nomadic
>partial to stealing and blood feuds
>dont respect norms of civil society
>literally Aryan
gypsies are quintessentially indo-european
I just wish to remind morons here that people back then didn't know their haplogroups. Cucking events were even more common than today, since people had no way to check if the child is truly theirs.
This is why you cream-pie heavily over and over again every day constantly 24/7 7 days a week 365 days a year. Multiple time during ovulation. So many babies would make it hard for any distractions.
Mestizos vs cholos ITT
I want to hunt and gather her.
They were too sexy
qt 3.14
They created Europe, the only prehistoric legacy in countries as Britain, Germany, etc., is from Anatolians.
Euskaro-Caucasian culture was peak civilized, from Gobleki-tepians to minoans, megalithistics and sumerians.
shes part gypsie
that chick is mexican, your neolithic farmer was something like this
Idk. You have to remember that current Southern Europeans are Steppe/EEF mutts and EEF themselves were part WHG mutts. The original EEFs were definitely lighter than modern MENA types but idk about the features.