Tactical advantage of fielding a 1940s vintage HEAT BP-540 152mm shell intended for direct fire to your artillery?
Preparedness & self-sufficiency community
Tactical advantage of fielding a 1940s vintage HEAT BP-540 152mm shell intended for direct fire to your artillery?
If it explodes, it explodes.
HEAT rounds don't exactly "explode"
Yes, yes they do you actual retard.
High Explosive Anti Tank doesnt explode?
HEAT uses a high explosive shaped charge to create a jet of molten metal that can lance through armor plating and set shit on the other side on fire. Its explosive charge is essentially the propellant, and it relies on accuracy - it's not gonna cause much damage to anything it doesn't hit directly.
You could say HEAT rounds explode in the same way a rifle cartridge explodes when the primer is hit. Won't be fun to have one go off a few meters from you, but if you've got some thin steel between yourself and the round you're fine unless it scores a direct hit.
You're either a tourist or a troll.
>HEAT uses a high explosive
You're an actual retard with no idea how any of this shit works.
A HEAT warhead focuses about 50% of its energy on a focal point, the rest still blasts everything in its radius.
50% of 50% of an actual He round. HEAT rounds are dogshit at firing for effect over an area.
>50% of 50% of an actual He round. HEAT rounds are dogshit at firing for effect over an area.
This, and if Russia has to roll out 50's ammo stash with limited range and direct firing role for their 50's D-20 guns then it tells you a lot about the state of supply of the Russian artillery.
Russian army is in a state of collapse and they officially lost the war two days ago. This is just popcorn and fall of berlin tier tragi-comedy now. Prepare yourself for 100,000 of teh 500,000 Russian civilians they imported into Crimea all trying to force their way on to the bridge out simultaneously as Ukrainian tanks exchange fire with 15 year olds on the outskirts of Sevastopol and 150, 000 criminalised and bitter fleeing mobik deserters with rifles pouring chaotically into Belgorod with the exact same though for stealing anything they can over this summer. As called two days ago the russians no longer have the capacity for offensive operations, they have no modern equipment or trained men left in the ground forces but most critically they no longer have the fuel tankers or lorries to logistically supply their massive extended front line with fuel food or ammunition. Projection is they have no men left with ammunition or food by may but really their military is collapsing now due to the vehicle shortage. Soldiers wives are clubbing together to pay criminals to steal cars so they can fill them with food and drive them to their men. Artillery shells are being transported in scooby doo vans with no spare tires. Its over. Done. Russia has lost this war. The only thing protecting the remaining Russians is not their weapons, its that mud season has started. Their 'offensive' is over. It used up their last decent troops capable of any mechanised advance. The men and equipment are now gone and even some of those had to be armed with T62s. If Wagner remains cohesive they can take over the country virtually unopposed.
When Russian arillery losses are as proportionately high as they have been for the last two days it tells us this
1)Russian gunners are short of ammunition for counterbattery
2)The Ukrainians are hitting deep into the Russian rear lines making logistics even more difficult.
Its not long now before the Russian big guns start going completely silent due to lack of munitions and crews. Of the ~2000 they have left on paper the vast majority have shot out their barrels to the point of bursting.
The UKranian figures are of course correct but they quite slyly never added the tanks they captured into their publication of Russian losses, or APCS, IFVs, engineering vehicles, MLRS or guns.
Not just that. As anyone with military experience knows there is attrition just due to parts breakage, poor maintenance etc, now imagine how much there is when there is effectively no logistical system for Russian tank spares and components like autoloaders are very difficult to repair in the field. Russia has lost this war. Their military conventionally is gone, expect to see an increase in mad max vehicles fielded from them as well as increasing Russian mass desertions as soon as the mud is gone (Although they will have to be quick and desert before the Ukrainian offensive). The Russians are now evacuating collaborators from the Kherson region. Even the Russian know they have lost this war, only their bullshit artists on the internet seem to be uninformed. If Russia does nto conduct an organised retreat now they could take several hundred thousand casualties before summer ends. Russia is no longer a military power.
In terms of Russian casualties, add in those who ahve refused to fight or deserted (many many thousands, those who are prisoners or war, those who were killed by friendly fire or exposure, those executed by blocking forces or murdered by their own troops as well as those who simply died via accidents like an APC running over them or a few tons of munitions sliding out of a rotting crate onto their head. Don't forget those men who dug trenches in Chernobyl's forests and irradiated themselves either or those those with food poisoning. Russians could not organise a camping trip without one person being burnt alive, two people dying of exposure and one murder as well as one simply going missing let alone a war. Russia has between 15000 and 30,000 deserters already. Oh The Russian medical system is also in a state of collapse and the Russian economy is at the point where they are going to have to start deciding who does not get paid anymore..
>Russian economy is at the point where they are going to have to start deciding who does not get paid anymore..
Since October 22 when the rouble could again be exchanged for foreign currency today the rouble has lost 29% of its value and it is continuing to fall. The Russians cannot get more weapons to rearms. Their currency is effectively worthless for trade. Even the Chinese will *only* accept Euros from the Russians. Russia has lost this war and as a consequence faces collapse and unrest this autumn
That isn't Russia's main problem. THe problem is that they barely have any spares, because due to the attrocious storage doctrine they have for their vehicles of just plopping them all into a siberian field, every time they have to backfill a loss, they end up eating through a considerable amount of spare parts on account of most stored vehicles only being partially functional.
They genuinely might better be firing concrete training rounds. Not only would they be more likely to hit , consider the following:
Heat rounds are notorious for failing if kept beyond their shelf life, and we are talking, if your heat is more than 15 years old that shit gets fucky. Corrosion of the projectile can lead to the projectile not fusing correctly which in the case of a HEAT shell means it essentially loses all value and turns into a very shitty HESH. The inconsistent volatility of aged gunpowder means that it might not form an equal explosion meaning the jet won't actually form
Let’s be real, no one firing a heat round in an indirect ballistic arc gives a fuck about jet/slug formation. They just want to make a boom somewhere close to the enemy
If Russia had actually suffered over 600k casualties there would be no Russian troops left in Ukraine by this point. The fact so few prisoners were taken should tip you off that something is wrong. Demoralized barely trained mobik's taking hundreds of thousands of casualties but refusing to surrender and fighting like fanatics to the last man? That's also an exact 1:3 dead to wounded ratio, what are the chances of that?
Who writes this shit and why do you retards swallow it up?
The Ratio is exactly 1:3 because they take the official numbers and use that ratio to estimate the amount of wounded. That Ratio is probably wrong, since russian medecav is shit.
What kind of a retard does that and then tries to present that data as credible?
all data is credible when you win. aye goim?
K-Kermie-sama ..? Is th-that you?
> t. Russia. Is. Over.
Been sayin' that for a year now, and all anyone could do is try to shit on me. Fuck all of you trolls squatting and shitting on this board.
Pretty much this. But the question is can the Uki's push them out of the areas they're in? I'm not as confident they can as I once was.
Russians are getting their asses reamed out by sanctions. Modernization, training and manufacturing modern stuff is a pipe dream for them now.
Meanwhile the Ukes are scheduled to be getting new shit in the coming months and years, this combined with realtime NATO glowmoron infodump will probably allow them to liberate their territory eventually.
Trye, but russia has had time to stuff the frontlines full of meatshields. Aan while wast majority is composed of poorly equipped and mitivated mobiks, a body in a hole is still a body in a hole that needs to be displaced
Is this reverse Vatnik trolling? Because it's the most retarded and unhinged take I have read about Russia's army.
HEAT shells have about 1/3rd of the kill/wound area as HE-Frag shells for the same caliber
To but some figures
Lethal area for
No one is saying they aren't you fucking retard. Your dog ass claimed they don't explode. They do, now fuck off.
it's a SUPERPLASTIC JET GET IT STRAIGHT IN YOUR GOD DAMN HEAD
and purely based on semantics, they do explode, however
it's not 50%, it's somewhere like 33% of the energy, a good 2/3 of the energy is directed forwards. It also lacks any meaningful shrapnel, it would be relying entirely on the concussion and is basically useless except for extremely precise hits. Not something the Ruskies can achieve, particularly not when you're lobbing rounds meant for direct fire. Artillery is deadly not due to the blast but due to the fragments and this has no real fragments and barely any blast compared to the OF-45.
>You could say HEAT rounds explode in the same way a rifle cartridge explodes when the primer is hit
Were you dropped as a baby, or are you just a reddit fly-in?
Ok but anything in 152mm during ww2 is supposed to be effective even if it lands within 3 to 5 yards of the target
Never post here again, you 14-year old fucking double shitskin moron. have a nice day and never utter another word unless you want to kill people with second-hand embarrassment.
You must have missed the part where the US, among others, uses HEAT in lieu of proper HE rounds for its tanks.
Now, you could certainly make an argument that these *particular* rounds generate little fragmentation and have a tiny effective blast radius, and back that up with some form of documentation. But instead you made a blanket statement regarding all HEAT rounds that is factually untrue. Hence the response that PrepHole has given you is actually well-deserved.
Nope, they use a HEAT-MP round specifically designed to be multipurpose. They achieve this by combining a HEAT warhead with a fragmentation sleeve to produce somewhat adequate shrapnel against personnel and unarmored targets. The HEAT-MP have about three pounds of explosive filling, which is substantially less than most dedicated HE rounds.
Also note that there is a HE round in US service, the german-made DM11 (I forget what designation is used for it).
No, the names HEAT-MP and MPAT for M830/M830A1 are just MIC obfuscation. They are HEAT warheads that aren't going to have good performance vs infantry.
MIC love using the term "multi-purpose", which is why they call XM1147 "AMP" when it is just a programmable fused HE-Frag round
>two months later
>so what if Puccia is using pre-ww1 artillery, if it works, it works. Stop complaining
>If it explodes, it explodes.
For artillery use it's really bad compared to HE-FRAG (thin jacket = poor fragmentation effect, explosion is focused forward for a penetrating effect, which is useless in this case).
Furthermore it is not intended for indirect fire: it has roughly 60% the projectile mass of the other 152mm shell types and a higher muzzle velocity.
This results in completely different ballistics (and ballistic charts for BP-540 indirect fire don't exist because it was never INTENDED for indirect fire), so you won't hit shit.
tl;dr this is absolutely bottom of the barrel shit, they might as well be firing concrete training rounds.
Who the fuck
Thought 152mm direct fire
Was a good idea
KV-2, SU-152, ISU-152 etc.
Also when the tanks are rolling against your artillery battery, it's better than nothing.
I imagine for bunker busting, like
said, those vehicles were designed to destroy stationary defenses.
G-530 and G-530Sh were anti-concrete shells (for direct fire against fortifications).
BP-540 was direct fire anti-tank.
They're effecively using it to level cities right now, so it's somewhat relevant.
HEAT has a rather poor effect against structures. It's designed to punch holes in steel, not level buildings.
In addition the BP-540 has a somewhat underwhelming HE filler for 152mm standards, it's more on par with a 122mm HE shell (except worse because again, HEAT).
Well no shit, no one is arguing that HEAT is justasgood as HE, but i seriously doubt HEAT would be ineffective against emplacements or earthworks.
No one batts an eye when weak and tiny HE from an autocannon is used on emplacements, and those have an order of magntitude less HE that some monstrous 152mm HEAT.
Yeah, I remember that in the gulf war Abrams HEAT was a popular round for that reason. Enough explosives to deal with earthworks and it can deal with nearly any vehicle.
But they did NOT get them for that purpose.
They received them as a main round for artillery support.
>Furthermore it is not intended for indirect fire: it has roughly 60% the projectile mass of the other 152mm shell types and a higher muzzle velocity.
>This results in completely different ballistics (and ballistic charts for BP-540 indirect fire don't exist because it was never INTENDED for indirect fire), so you won't hit shit.
holy kek, I hadn't thought of that
>and ballistic charts for BP-540 indirect fire don't exist because it was never INTENDED for indirect fire
except the telegram message this thread started with explicitly advertises that it is now supported in the russian ballistic calculator for android.
>Hey if it works.jpg
i wonder if it's from russian stock or did they get it from NK
Only 250mm RHA penetration btw, while also having half the HE filler of OF-45 (and half the round weight, so I presume a thinner case)
Still gonna roast some hohols
>likin' dem diggie-doos
>"funded by the ghost of novorossiya"
They have their own ghost now, too?
Probably less effective than the actual ghost of Kyiv, too.
>Tactical advantage of fielding a 1940s vintage HEAT BP-540 152mm shell intended for direct fire to your artillery?
the enemy doesn't know which is HEAT and which is anti-personnel
It's looking more and more likely that China will have to supply ammunition if Russia wants to stay in the war.
I have a Bad feeling about the rest of this decade.
>Tactical advantage of fielding a 1940s vintage HEAT BP-540 152mm shell
lmfao, the ukraine is retreating from Russian multiple-felon cannibals, who have WW1 weapons
the absolute state of $200+billion dollars and 40+years of nato gear
>shilling for Prigozhi
I like how the Russian MoD doesn't even acknowledge Wagner as a meaningful presence, even in Bakhmut. They report everything of value is being done by Russian regulars at this point.
Even Russian media doesn't do anything other that deride Wagner, assuming it is even spoken of.
Imagine shilling a PMC that their own current employer doesn't respect.
MAYBE pulling out of a town, a walking distance from the pre-invasion border, with a population of 75k in 2021 after like 8 months of fighting is hardly “crushing the Ukrainian lines”, is it?
Russia went from thinking they could take on NATO to hardly being able to even take ground KMs from their border from a poor shithole armed with not even a tenth of NATO’s budget
lmfao, so you ukraine couldnt hold a meaningless town a handful of miles from Russia after being on the offensive since 2017?
what the fuck kind of sense does that make?
do you people ever think about the shit that comes out of your mouths?
Imao, why are you brown?