Sick of seeing morons in the comments section of every companies instagram fricking saying hurr durr make it in 5.7 or ten milly version wen???These should not be having the resurgence they are. Pistol ballistics are a joke, grow up.
Captcha TT0N
Stupid meme calibers that need to die
they'll die on their own merits, they don't need killing.
>calibers that need to die
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
In the wise words of that other guy who is on every thread ...
>"Frick ya mudda!"
main problem w 5.7 is that it is straight wall despite being bottle necked thus it has a lot of friction when extracting
no the main problem is that it is a 22 magnum
>no the main problem (with 5.7) is that it is a 22 magnum
Lucky Gunner talks about this dumb saying, 5.7 out of a 5" barrel is the same as .22 magnum out of a 20" barrel so they saying is pointless when you consider the fact that there are no .22 mag PCC in production.
CMR-30? Am I walking into a keltec joke here?
The CMR-30 has a 16 inch barrel, but good catch, there is 1 PCC in production.
spitzer bullets need high velocity to be good. Semi auto handguns don’t have high velocity. 5.7 and 22 mag have similar terminal performance
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=47400
This is beautiful. Not even mad I was proved wrong. 10/10 for the .22 magnum rifle.
said no one who died at ft hood
Yea, frick all those weird coatings and whatnot
10mm isn’t a meme if you live in Alaska, or elsewhere with grizzlies.
5.7 is mostly a meme, but who cares, it doesn’t need to die.
5.7 would be so much more successful if FN wasn't so greedy. They are the only suppliers of 5.7 brass.
Not anymore, I don't think. Part of it being adopted by NATO means the spec sheets on the brass and coating should be released to other manufacturers for each country's domestic production
To my knowledge the only two companies making 5.7 brass are FN in Europe and Fiocchi in the US, I could be wrong (and hopefully I am) but all the companies making 5.7x28mm were buying the brass from these two companies. I'm not aware of any other country in NATO producing the ammo domestically rather than buying it from FN.
10mm is weaker than .357. Advocating it for grizzlys is like advocating a high capacity .22 for pcp zombies
>10mm is weaker than .357
one needs to consider velocity, mass, cross section density, bullet construction, distance and target being shot. Simply picking a smaller lighter round because the foot-pound energy number is a bit larger is not by itself the best way to say one round is stronger or weaker than another.
10mm is a much heavier projectile and thus penetrates deeper.
Penetration is a function of sectional density which is calculated using the square of the bullet's diameter. Weight is comparatively much less of a factor.
I can get factory loaded 200 grain projectiles in both 10mm and 357 mag. The cross sectional density of 357 mag is higher for a given weight due to the projectile having a smaller frontal surface area. And if I have to spell it out for you, cross sectional density is what makes a cartridge a good penetrator, not just mass.
Sectional density is what matters, not total weight.
Both matter.
>10mm is weaker than .357.
Hot loads are comparable for both and in a glawk you have 15+1 as opposed to 6.
Mmmmm sure about that bud? Hard to argue with a 220 grain hard cast bullet trucking out of a 6 inch barrel.
Find me a 180 grain 10mm that does 1500 fps out of a 6" barrel.
>posts unobtanium boutique ammo that can only be used in specific guns without damage.
Lmao no, you can use it non-stop in any .357 mag gun, that’s not even a crazy hot load like you’re mentioning.
Try again.
Apples and oranges. Show me a 60 grain .357 that can do 2400 fps. Does that also make .357 sig obsolete too? My point is that numbers are just numbers. 15 rounds of hard cast 10mm is 1000% better than six/seven rounds of .357 or even .44 mag. Numbers and math don’t matter when your life is on the line. Low recoil, Having a bullet that will stay together enough to penetrate bone, having enough rounds to account for misses from the fat dump you are taking in your pants and the massive amount of adrenaline entering your blood, and having enough capacity to still be able to drive a pissed off animal to the ground is what matters.
I carry a .357 inna woods, but in bear country you bet your ass I have a 10mm with hard cast. My Alaskan friends, and Canuck bush pilot friend agree.
T. Oldgay
My screens only go up to 120 fps, how do I make them go faster?
"regular" 10mm and .357 out of a 4 inch are about the same 550 ftlbs
For weak-ass factory ammo, sure.
it makes 1,356 fps from a 4", according to buffalo bore.
their 180 gr "heavy 10 mm" makes 1,351 fps fps from a 5" 1911 and 1,311 fps from a 4.6" Glock.
so .357 mag does have an edge (because of its huge powder volume) but it's not far off.
It also does 1351 out of a 3", according to Buffalo Bore. So exactly the same as the 10mm from a 1911 but in a barrel a little over half as long.
see
add another ~1.6" to the .357 mag barrel length for an apples to apples comparison.
Actually, I disagree in one respect. The forcing cone and rifled length of the barrels is all that matters to compare. The chamber's length isn't of any benefit so it doesn't matter if it's a diminutive chamber that is 1.2" or 1.8" in a revolver cylinder. Just measure the full length of the barrel, say 4" revolver and ensure that the semi auto you're comparing to is a 5" so you have nearly 4" of rifled barrel ahead of the chamber.
A revolver is still at a small disadvantage in my example because the B/C gap has a more pronounced effect than you believed, but what also matters perhaps even more is how tight the chamber and throats are in a revolver too.
That’s not taking into account that the measured barrel length on a revolver doesn’t count the chamber, while it does for auto loaders.
I would bet any amount of money that whatever guns they use to test at buffalo bore have extremely tight well tuned cylinder gaps, but even a big cylinder gap only loses you 50fps, which is more than made up for give the real barrel length advantage
BB uses some pretty stock guns and .008" B/C gap is thought of as within-spec for Rugers, which tend to have some of the largest.
A rule of thumb is you lose about 20fps for every .001" between the cylinder/barrel. Look no further than the velocities Freedom Arms revolvers gain over other brands, it can be 100fps comparing the same barrel length.
I agree with how you measure the barrel.
Proper 10mm is comparable to 357 magnum in all but the spiciest most extreme loads. And that can mostly be attributed to the fact that 357 is a revolver round primarily and revolvers tend to be stronger than auto pistols.
you either hit the vitals or you don't. heavy hardcast loads in either caliber have more than enough penetration to do the job. pick one and shut the frick up
>10mm is weaker than .357
Sure, but you can magdump its face with a 10mm without a care of counting to six and dealing with speedloaders.
wow just like my analogy of .22 for pcp zombies
Hurrr magnum more powerful by just a little just completely lose over half your capacity for a few more ft lbs hurrrr
You are a mouth breathing imbecile
>10mm is weaker than .357
No.
>alaska population: 730,000
It's a meme. Those crazy snowtards carry .44mag for bear anyways
>semi automatic for woods defense
possibly the dumbest thing you can do
Nope. FMJ's in normal pistol cartridges are perfectly capable of fending off bears.
This. There's even video of Finnish police shooting a bear with 9x18, the first shot immediately switches the bear from fight to flight mode, and several more anchor it.
380 will kill the frick out of a polar bear. The only documented failures of handgun self-defence against bears involve either .22lr, incredible stupidity, or both.
>if you live in Alaska
Then (you) are the meme.
No anon. The whole "we need 10mm to shoot bears" cope IS the meme. 10mm was designed by Jeff Cooper for shooting North American pavement apes, but gun manufacturers today are politically correct, and they aren't allowed to make advertisements about shooting minorities, so they use bears as a euphemism. See what happened was that there were a lot of massive black race riots in the 1960s on the scale of which America had never seen, as well as an uptick in the use of narcotics like heroin and codeine by black criminals. Prior to that, the law enforcement philosophy was "one policeman, one riot," and cops were typically only armed with dated 38 special revolvers and maybe a Winchester 870 in the trunk of the squad car to use as a last resort. Then in the early 70's there were movies like Dirty Harry and Death Wish that showed Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson shooting black criminals. Demand for the 44 magnum Model 29 and other powerful revolvers skyrocketed, but the problem was that they were limited in capacity. Liberal civil rights groups also raised a stink whenever law enforcement groups attempted to uniformly adopt a "magnum" revolver. Around this time, weapons masters like Cooper and Massad Ayoob had begun to advocate for autoloaders as a viable alternative for police due to the increased speed of reloading now that hollowpoint ammo from Super Vel had finally started to become reliable. 9mm and 45 ACP pistols was starting to gain traction among cops, but what people wanted was the power of Dirty Harry's 44 magnum with the ease of use that came with a modern automatic. That's where 10mm came into play. The Miami-Dade shootout was the catalyst needed for the FBI to push the adoption of this new cartridge, but the problem was that it came about just as the "old guard" was beginning to retire and be replaced by female Affirmative Action hires who couldn't handle the recoil.
>Then in the early 70's there were movies like Dirty Harry and Death Wish that showed Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson shooting black criminals.
The original death wish franchise was based.
> it came about just as the "old guard" was beginning to retire and be replaced by female Affirmative Action hires who couldn't handle the recoil.
Yeah anyone who says 10mm has too much recoil should get their T levels checked and go to the gym.
IIRC didn’t no one switch to 10mm because they all realized it was overpowered and go to .40 S&W instead?
The FBI officially adopted 10mm to replace 38 Special, but quickly dropped it once it became apparent that women couldn't handle it. There were also problems with 10mm being too hot and cracking frames of steel handguns at that time. They weakened it to 40 S&W with the logic that they would have something more controllable that could fit in 9mm-framed handguns, but it would still be something more powerful than 9mm which was seen as too weak. Turns out that women can't shoot 40 either, so the FBI backtracked and switched to 9mm officially a couple of years ago, citing "advancements in bullet technology" or similar fluff.
But in ballistics tests is there any significant improvement with 10mm compared to .40 besides excessive penetration?
Penetration is all that matters aside from diameter when it comes to handgun wounds.
>advancements in bullet technology
>9BLPE 9mm +P+ passes FBI tests and its old as shit
>There were also problems with 10mm being too hot and cracking frames of steel handguns at that time
with the exception being the
STAR MEGASTAR
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>tfw no 1046 ever ever
It’s not fair bros
I need at least a 1086 and a 1006 but I don’t have the money to justify it
Maybe I’ll cope and buy a 5946
>There were also problems with 10mm being too hot and cracking frames of steel handguns at that time.
probably didn't help that the american steel industry was going to complete shit at the time
the cracky gun is just the Delta Elite being a 1911.
>so they use bears as a euphemism
>10mm always sold out in alaska
>10mm is for North American Pavement Apes
This Anon is on a watchlist.
>guy who complained about lack of stoppin powah in the bush against whites and slant eyes specifically designed 10mm to stop nigs
do something about your brain rot, his ideas on the matter was they'd kill themselves as long the situation was left alone.
It was designed as a law enforcement cartridge, and which group do you think came into conflict with law enforcement the most? Everyone knew something like the 1992 Rodney King riot was inevitable.
Everything between 10 & 5.7 should be culled.
>meme calibers
10mm magnum should have been a thing
We had .41 magnum which was better but everyone decided that .357 magnum and .44 magnum were all they needed.
It still can be if you want to spend like crazy
>but 10mm Magnum
Ok, ok you’re not closeted. We believe you.
It’s called 400 Legend
22LR in its current form needs to die and be replaced by a rimless or semi-rimmed centerfire alternative that utilizes modern bullet shapes at modern pressures and perhaps with modern innovative features like a taper and a bottleneck.
Redirect all 22LR priming compound into making center fire primers, reducing the cost of all ammunition.
Redirect all 22LR brass production into other calibers.
Melt all 22LR bullets down and cast them into other calibers.
Melt all 22LR guns down and remake them in the new, enlightened, jam and dud-free reloadable chambering.
can you show us on the doll where the .22lr touched you?
nobody has or ever will touch him
Why aren't we all using black powder muzzleloaders? The answer is the same reason I choose to not participate in the 22LR fan club.
.22 rimfires have killed more people than any other caliber. Mostly Shorts, Longs And Long Rifles.
I don't buy this meme. yeah they've been around a long time but they don't feature in any wars, cops never carried them, and they were never the gold standard of concealed carry.
title has to go to 8mm mauser or 7.62x39 or something
I’m pretty sure when people say that, they’re referring to US murders and IIRC their are stats that support it.
I'm a huge .22lr fan, but he's right. We could have an easily reloadable equivalent with better load variety, but instead we're stuck with .22lr forever. Improving the cartridge would also improve its baseline performance. I'm going to keep blasting my 10/22, but it would be better if it was centerfire.
keked at both of these posts
This anon gets it. 22acp when?
That’s literally what 25 acp is for
25 acp was created to perform like a center fire 22lr. In semi automatic handguns. 22lr has just outpaced it. It’s cheap in part, because there is no primer.
.22lr is one of the oldest cartridges still in use today and it will be the last cartridge made.
>If caseless get figured out .22 will be one of the only metallic cartridges that can stay cost competitive
>If humanity moves beyond firearms the humble .22 will still be made for all the history nerds to shoot their .22 replicas of ancient firearms.
>If humanity get knocked down and needs to restart manufacturing, the cheap and commonly chambered .22 will be the easiest thing to start making again.
.22lr will watch all your favourite calibers wither into dust
You stupid frick it's cheap because it's rimfire
If 25qcp was made in volume 22 is it would be pretty cheap. I’d used 1/3 the material of 9mm which can sell for 30c the 25 could sell at 10c if made in 22lr volumes. So your wrong 25acp gang wins again.
.25 ACP called, it says that you're a Black personfricking homosexual who would be better off dead, you subhuman chimp. I hope your Black folk break into your parents house and beat them, then burn it down with them inside. I hope a Black person rapes your frickin daughter. I hope your son is shot to death in a drive by at one of your Black person loving schools. I hope you attempt to have a nice day and instead just paralyze yourself from the neck down, end up in a home, and the orderlies are Black folk that abuse and rape you until you die of a sepsis from a torn anus and bedsores from lying in your own fricking piss and shit you worthless mongrel of a human. You are a waste of carbon, every bite of food you eat is actively stealing from people more more worthwhile than you. Every breath you take that sucks precious oxygen into your worthless lungs is theft. Every utterance out of your disgusting mouth when it isn't full of Black person penis or Black person semen actively lowers IQ in a three meter radius. You are scum, you are a parasite. have a nice day.
How are you gonna fit a primer within such a small case head diameter? Inb4 5.56 Knox. But I’ve never seen pics of its primer. Is it possible? I genuinely am interested to know, because such a round would be awesome.
T.22D when?
You just know the anti-10mm posts are from filthy .357 Siggers that are just jealous that Gen-X's hipster round is getting another 15 minutes of fame while their round continues to slowly die.
Don't worry, in 10-15 years when .40s&w starts to gain traction again because the cops and feds realize 9mm sucks and as a result two new guns are made in .357 sig you can totally rub how right you were in everyones face
>because the cops and feds realize 9mm sucks
So then why did everyone switch to 9mm after using that shit?
Who is "everyone" besides the morons at the FBI who can't make up their mind?
.357 Sig wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the BASED 10mm
you don't own any guns do you
>Don't worry, in 10-15 years when .40s&w starts to gain traction again
Considering how much the gun community is a bunch of trend chasers, it wouldn't surprise me at all if .40 saw a resurgence in popularity just because some zoomer/alpha gun hipsters liked the aesthetic of '90s/'00s firearms.
pointy bullets good
flat bullets bad
The only reason I am a 357 sigger is because Glock didn't make a 9x25 dillon
nogunz as frick
This is now a calibers that need a comeback thread: I want .327 to make a comeback
Was it ever popular to begin with though?
no
it's just that one gay that won't shut the frick up about it
>This is now a calibers that need a comeback thread: I want .327 to make a comeback
.257 Roberts
.30-40 Krag
.44-40
>8 shot K frame or J/python
meh
>small enough for varmints, but not really, large enough for Deer, but not really
327 is just .223 for people who just have to have a revolver
fat slow bullets > small fast bullets
speaking of which, what's the fattest slowest pistol cartridge?
.50 gi
too fast
If you don’t carry a 12mm revolver, then you literally don’t value your personal safety. If you aren’t carrying a Lefaucheux model of 1854 or something very similar, then get the frick out of my face.
>t.
Funny even in the UK we can buy pinfires because "obsolete gun"
QUIT HAVING FUN!
it was never fun
but is now
bro, i just want a reduced rifle-like performance out of a pistol, is that so much to ask for?
Love 10mm
Simple as
10mm is for backpacking/camping. It's a man's gun, far more comfy to pack around than a .44mag but with more rounds and adequate power.
10mm is also the only caliber proven to kill cryptids.
If you want to head off into the skinwalker infested bear sanctuary for a good nights sleep taking only your 9mm and spary, I won't stop you.
>10mm is also the only caliber proven to kill cryptids.
*desire to know more intensifies*
Second.
>Muh heckin cryptids muh skinwalkerinos
Cryptid hunt larping is as cringe as le boog shit and Im tired of pretending its not
Skinwalker detected.
the boog only became cringe when reddit and instagram started using it, before then it was just a fun meme. Although nowadays /k/ is too cringe to replace it with a better meme
If pistol ballistics are a joke, then 5.7 pistols are better than 9mm ones since they have a greater capacity and lower felt recoil.
yes and if 9mm gays believed the bullshit they spew about capacity and shot placement they would carry 5.7.
9mm exists because it's the cheapest round that's probably good enough
ballistically 5.7 makes sense for militaries stuck with non-expanding bullets. a tumbling 5.7 that dumps all its energy in the target is gonna tear up more tissue and leave a nastier wound channel behind in real flesh than a 9mm ball sailing right through
Defeating soft armor and a really flat trajectory is a nice touch too.
https://adventureswithshortguns.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/10mm-vs-a-hog-a-family-trip/
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/alaskans-stop-grizzly-bear-charge-with-glock-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/hunt365-a-bear-charged-me/
yeah man 10mm is a total gimmick. No difference between 10mm and 9mm.
https://www.ammoland.com/2023/11/handgun-defenses-against-bears-170-documented-incidents-98-effective/#axzz8Pcu0LkWA
Caliber doesn’t matter with modern handgun ammo vs bears, FMJ or hardcast will get you the penetration you need in 9mm and up.
I did like how in the singular 10mm incident mentioned, the moron also blew his own toe off.
i misread this as 'caliber doesnt matter vs modern bears' and was really interested to learn how bears have adapted to bullets
frick you
Bears learned how to manufacture level 2 soft armor
10 mm is the coolest.
daily reminder that he used 45 ACP, the GOAT
i used to be a tacticool loser then i took the 45 ACP pill, git gud
7.62x25 > 9x19
No Beretta guns chambered in it therefore your argument is invalid
A px4 chambered in it would be a lot of fun
No Beretta in 10mm yet either but its still the best cartridge.
>These should not be having the resurgence they are
>life should be what I say it should be
Self-involved, presumptuous little homosexual.
>waaaaaah i need mo 9 waaaaaah
Sick b***hes like you b***hing.
9mm needs to go because you homosexuals are insufferable
I would send every 9mmtard to the fricking sun
10mm is the magnum round of the future
Young millennials and zoomers don’t want revolvers, but there will always be a good amount of people who just want a little more juice than what’s common, the same reason people buy the up optioned engine when they’re never gonna drive over 70.
So when young guys want more power than 9mm, it’s obvious where to turn.
desert eagles exist
speaking of which, those gays up near brainerd should make a smaller 10mm deagle, and one in 45 win mag or 45 colt +P/454 casull
That’s not an engine with a little more juice, that’s an entirely different and expensive and impractical car
10mm doesnt fit in most 9mm and .40 size pistols
A g20 is a very very similar gun to a g17 and neither are similar in the least to a desert eagle
Do you know how analogies work?
>a CLA is very similar to a CLS and neither are similar to an S-class
sure
Not a real gun unless it's 20mm.
whats the best pistol caliber for penetrating body armor
that's more a function of the bullet than the caliber.
Truth, you used to be able to buy AP pistol ammo and AP 9mm would defeat kevlar reliably.
ok 5.7x28, we get it
5.45x39 7n6 according to some alphabet agencies
fr fr this is why I only buy pistols chambered in .357 sig
>it's another 9mmanlet cope thread
>MEMERS could be here, he thought.
>Pistol ballistics are a joke, grow up.
OK. 9mm needs to go. The French got something right with 8mm.
>8mm
That's just overkill, we clearly got it right with .25 ACP.
Unironically a 25 ACP lengthened to 1.3"case, 1.6"OAL, shooting .257s instead of .251s, would be a suitable replacement for both 9mm and 5.7x28 in NATO service.
you ain't gonna hurt nobody with that there peashooter, real men carry .32 ACP because they don't make a .33
Hey guys I carry a 30 super for my EDC how fricked am I?
but seriously when will the ruger pc carbine be available in 5.7x28, 10mm, or 357sig
The lc carbine and charger are a superior form factor
.45 GAP chads?
would you rather get shot with a 9mil or a 10mil