soviet SMGs

>1 SMG per squad as standard
>but with the provisions for 2 or 3 SMGs per squad if needed
>and an additional 2 SMGs in each platoon in the HQ section
>and an SMG platoon in the company, where each "rifle" man had an SMG
>theoretically able to have every third man in a company armed with an SMG

>US SMGs only held in the weapons pool and distributed when needed
>germans only have the 1 SMG per squad
>british have 2 SMGs per squad, and a few at platoon level to hand out

why were the soviets so obsessed with SMGs?
the british were a distant second, and even then it was mostly because their bren guns were in a separate section, so the SMGs were used in the rifle section for a quick boost in automatic fire

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  1. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    They did a lot of urban combat and they emphasized volume of fire. So fast firing weapons with drum magazines like ppsh songs and dp-27 lmgs were useful.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      germans were in the exact same battles, though
      and they stuck with the same number of SMGs as they started with

      They preferred using artillery to cover their infantry until they got within 300 meters or so then would have the infantry close with tank support. This type of offensive tactic benefits from submachineguns.

      >They preferred using artillery to cover their infantry until they got within 300 meters or so then would have the infantry close with tank support
      this was standard for pretty much every one, none of whome who had the same hard-on for SMG

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        German SMGs were basically artisanal goods.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >germans were in the exact same battles, though and they stuck with the same number of SMGs as they started with
        Yeah and they fricking lost

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >germans were in the exact same battles, though
        Yeah, and germans got their volume of fire from MGs. Its a simple doctrinal difference.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Yeah, and germans got their volume of fire from MGs
          but after urban fighting, they didnt want more assault-oriented machine guns
          and they did revisit the concept until 1944 with the STG

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Oh God they were drums can you imagine how much that had to suck to reload those thousands of times?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Soviets weren't short of warm bodies, they were conscripting schoolgirls to dig trenches

  2. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    because their infantry doctrine probably amounted to throw whatever shit you can at the Germans, I don't really frickicnn know but it would make sense
    smg's were better back in the day when body armor wasn't as prevalent so if you needed to toss as much shit at you can at the enemy and were closer than 100 meters or so then the SMG made a lot of sense compared to bolt actions.
    US doctrine was much more focused on precision and getting accurate shots on target, also their rifle was semi automatic which gives you a lot more leeway vs a bolt action
    I don't know anything about the British
    source: my ass, this is complete guestimation on my end

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Not bad.

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >why were the soviets so obsessed with SMGs?

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    They preferred using artillery to cover their infantry until they got within 300 meters or so then would have the infantry close with tank support. This type of offensive tactic benefits from submachineguns.

  5. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    because they lost half of their small-arms arsenal in 1941 and PPSh was cheaper and faster to produce than mosins.

  6. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    US didn't need that many submachine guns because they had semi-auto rifles and a Bar in every squad.
    The Sten and PPSh were cheap as frick, easy to produce and greatly increased the firepower of a squad.
    The MP40 was basically a GUCCI® submachine gun combined with Hitler's personal autism of thinking the Kar98 is all a man needs.

  7. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's because SMGs are dirt cheap to make because of the low chamber pressure and extremely simple action. They're cheaper than rifles, which are comparatively complex and expensive, and they require less training to use. The downside of all this is that they're inflexible weapons that are essentially useless against moving targets or at anything beyond grenade range, so they're useless outside of assaults and the people carrying them are totally fricked if they get pinned.

  8. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    7.62x25mm was very good for a smg boolit

  9. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    You've seen the rate of fire on that bastard? I'd also want as many of those as possible.
    It was the BRRRRRT before the A-10

  10. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Way better than a rifle in urban combat

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      this
      at least in bong doctrine, SMGs were the trench brooms of WW2

      >british have 2 SMGs per squad, and a few at platoon level to hand out
      what is this, 1944 TOE?
      the 1940 TOE had only 3 per platoon, typically used by the assault section commander or whoever he nominated

  11. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    7.62 tokarev mogs a 9mm or 45apc from a long barrel any day

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Aren't they underpressured? They're velocity reliant, sure, but I don't think there's much redeeming about them.

  12. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    A squad entirely equipped with SMGs will shit on the squad with rifles and a single SMG

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      Which game this is? If rifle kills with one bullet, then no.

      in ww2, the average grunt in most armies could choose between a bolt-action rifle and an smg.
      smgs are at least viable up to 100-200 meters while bolt-action rifles sucked at every range.

      My father said everyone in his team chose MG42 with extended belt and light bolt.
      The firing sound was freaking loud, but not as loud and horrifying as 12 year old commie kids screaming for their mother about lag.

  13. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >ppsh-41
    Didn't they develop that after getting hosed down with SMGs in the Winter War?

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Soviets had practically zero air support until the later stages of the war, had a ton of initial armor issues, and the DP27 couldn’t really keep up much with the MG34/42, and thats not even mentioning the shitton of urban combat they saw. The USSR needed as much lead slung downrange as they possibly could, and that was the quickest and easiest way to achieve it. And as mentioned I’m sure the disaster that was the WW made some generals and commanders feel they need to compensate with lots of smgs.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      probably not. soviets had the PPD submachinegun since 1935 and the PPSh was more or less developed to be cheaper to manufacture than the PPD. The PPS-43 would come later and be even cheaper to produce

  14. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    in ww2, the average grunt in most armies could choose between a bolt-action rifle and an smg.
    smgs are at least viable up to 100-200 meters while bolt-action rifles sucked at every range.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      It was up to their officers to make the decision

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        yeah and the officers would have the same logic
        "should I give my troops the gun that's always crap or the gun that's only crap beyond 200 meters?"

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          I know but I just needed to tell you that you are wrong

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >bolt-action rifles sucked at every range

  15. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Soviet mainstays (Ppsh-41 and Pps-43) were made of stamped sheet metal, which meant far fewer man-hours of skilled machining work needed to be done. For a nation which was trying to massively scale up arms production while they were also relocating their factories beyond the Urals, it made a difference.

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