So who really won at the Jutland?

So who really won at the Jutland?

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Brits.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    german tactical victory, british had way higher losses
    operational stalemate, british did not inflict enough losses on the german navy to prevent them from being a fleet in being but the germans didnt break the blockade on germany
    but it was a strategic failure on the germans, because not breaking the blockade would prove disastrous for their economy (not necessarily a success for the british, but a big loss for the germans)

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Germans, they just didn't win hard enough to make a difference.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Not the Home Fleet or the British people.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the fish

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The fishies

      we got back at them though

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >we

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Jutland was a conspiracy by Big Chippie

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >British perform poorly, but numbers make up for deficiencies
    >Germans perform well, but outnumbered
    >Germans fail to inflict significant damage to British Home Fleet
    >Germans retreat under impossible odds
    >forced back to port for rest of war
    >have to resort to submarine warfare
    >never dare to engage in large scale engagements again
    The last is telling, had it really been felt a German victory, follow up engagements would have been sought, but the Germans feared further action; Germany struggled to make good their losses, whilst Britain was churning out warships. British victory, but ignoble and messy.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Germany won the battle but achieved nothing by doing so. Some celebrations and medals did not change the overall situation between the RN and KM. The Germans were still mostly bottled up in their home waters.
    And the British learned many lessons they put into practice, meaning that any other large engagement would likely result in RN victory as they fixed their ammunition handling practices and deficiencies with shells.
    That said, the Germans won my heart because their WW1 ships are dope.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks anon - any relevant books on the German WW1 ships, fleet and battles you would recommend?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Castles of Steel by Massie. Talks about shup designs, admiral personalities, and goes particularly in-depth about the events of Jutland.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The fishies

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Look at the mustache bottom left
    How do I grow facial hair like this bros

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tactically, Germany. But they failed to achieve their strategic objectives. So a strategic British victory.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    TEVTONIA

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Prisoner attacked the guard, but after a scuffle, got put back in his cell. Even if guard got few bruises, its pretty obvious who won and who lost

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      *looks aside* What did he mean by this, chat?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The German navy left port, sank more ships than they lost, returned to port, and then remained there until the end of the war. All the while, the British continued to blockade Germany.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Aircraft.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >tactically, a victory
    >strategically, a loss

    I don't know what it is about this turn of phrase, but it makes me suspect that everyone in this thread learns all they know from the same set of youtube essays

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Cool, now explain how it's wrong.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        NAYRT but the way it is used by most plebs, it can be twisted to explain nearly every lost battle
        >Kyiv: tactical defeat, strategic Russian victory, territory gained
        >Syria: tactical defeat, strategic Syrian victory, rebels stalled
        >Praying Mantis: strategic victory, US invasion prevented
        >Vietnam: strategic victory, Communist domino stopped
        >Korean War: strategic victory, US invasion stopped
        >Burma 1942: strategic victory, India defended
        >France 1940: strategic victory, Luftwaffe decimated
        >Dunkirk: strategic victory, BEF rescued

        All it takes is for the narrator to give their interpretation of the strategic objectives in order to claim victory. And these are usually loosely defined or downright manipulated.
        I agree with

        https://i.imgur.com/xsvzBYT.jpg

        >tactically, a victory
        >strategically, a loss

        I don't know what it is about this turn of phrase, but it makes me suspect that everyone in this thread learns all they know from the same set of youtube essays

        , it is the plebbiest of battle assessments
        Even reddit would do better

        https://i.imgur.com/SUwWeyH.jpg

        So who really won at the Jutland?

        Unquestionably the Royal Navy. They contained the threat with acceptable losses and proved to the German admirals that their hopes for outfighting the RN were unlikely to come true. No doubt the loss of morale contributed to the mutiny that followed much later.

        It was not the unquestionable victory that is gained from visible losses favouring the victor, and that's why it generates so much controversy.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It is moronic. What is the tactical advantage of fleeing the field of battle and getting bottled in port for the rest of the war?
        The best you could say of the battle from the German perspective is that it was indecisive.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The rest of the world

      >projecting this hard
      We learned about Pyrrhus in school, zoom zoom.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was a mild German victory which had no impact on the war.

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    was it really a german victory if they never won strategically(didnt break the embargo) or tactically (most british losses were battlecruisers, and germans couldnt replace their lost battleships).
    the soviets lost more men and material at stalingrad and is still considered to have tactially and strategically won the battle

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The battle didn't really change the strategic situation very much, which pre-battle favoured the British.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The Bongs? They trapped the Germans for the entire war and blockaded the country. What the frick kind of question is that?
    >b-b-b-ut they did more d-damage and and
    And? They were forced to withdraw and then were harried and trapped. They lost. Can't even claim a 'tactical victory' because they were forced to leave.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A messy and blueballing British strategic victory, since the blockade was of war-winning importance and the battle allowed it to remain in place for the rest of the war.
    Not a proud victory but a victory nonetheless
    K/Dgays need not apply

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    In strategic terms it as a decisive british victory, the germans never dared sortie in force, indeed the order to do so caused the Kiel mutiny and sparked the revolution and final collapse of the german war effort. The fact that the germans refused to sortie meant the blockade remained in place and this had a massive impact on Germanys ability to sustain its war effort

    Tactically indecisive. the germans won the battlecruiser skirmish in the opening phase, but just as clearly lost the main fleet action albeit with lower losses due to the immediate decision to run like hell. at the end of the days fighting the british had control of the seas, the germans were contained in port and the ratio of combat capable ships actually favoured the british more after the battle than before as while the germans had fewer outright losses, many more of their ships had sustained heavy damages, indeed Seydlitz only made to to port ith the assistance of 2 pumpships and a tug.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Probably the side who took less than half the losses the other side did, and which accomplished its operational goal (inflicting higher relative losses - lost enemy tonnage vs. total enemy tonnage - than losses suffered - lost tonnage vs. total tonnage).
      Brainlets who think the Germans planned to win the war in a single battle should be drowned in the north sea

      >the germans never dared sortie in force
      It did so twice after Jutland in 1916 alone. The Royal Navy declined to show up.
      The reality is that the EN effectively surrendered the North Sea after Jutland.
      It was just less important than the atlantic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >least delusional Germ
        You're making the Anglos look good, please reconsider.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The British.
    However, it's only really a win as a result of cumulative surface fleet victories by the Allies as a whole.

    Whilst the Germans were forced back to their ports, it ultimately tied up a portion of the RN to keep them there. If situations across the globe put strain on the RN, it might have resulted in the Germans being able to leave their ports and continue operating.

    But, it didn't come to that, so it's a victory.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Jellicoe was able to report a fully operational fleet within a day of Jutland. The German fleet was generally weakened even if the K/D was impressive in the actual battle. The real question is how tf Beatty managed to get promoted after such a god-awful performance.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The side that didn't spend the rest of the war under blockade.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I did, sorry.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Tactically? Germans by a ballhair

    Strategically? Bongs and it's not even close
    >Tfw the German navy refused to leave port for the rest of the war and when ordered to do so instantly mutinied

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Germ goals
    >Kill the British BCs
    >Keep as much of our shit as we can intact
    British Goals
    >Keep blockade going
    >Destroy germ BCs and any other capitals to prevent future raiding
    Well they both accomplished most of their goals so uh YES.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      germanys naval goal was to draw out and destroy a portion of the grand fleet, they didnt realise that the british had decided to sortie en masse or not at all.

      the british goals were essentially preserve the fleet and blockade as primary objectives, and kill as many germans as they could.

      strategically the british achieved their goals the germans did not.

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