So, i want to be a machinist. Bad. I have a lot of mechanical experience from working in industrial maintenance. I got a referral from a guy, and the upper structure of this company is sending me long love letters saying they want me to get more machining experience before they hire me on to make big money. Like, 100k-120k a year.
My question is, should I drive 3 hours away, sleep in these guys parking lot, and work there for free until they hire me? Im in a position where i dont really care about money for the next month.
I just want to learn to run a lathe, do advanced machining, and make a frickload of money. They want me to take classes, but thats not the same. Do i take the classes? Or will this boomer bootstrap gambit make these people realize im fricking serious.
>should I drive 3 hours away, sleep in these guys parking lot, and work there for free until they hire me?
frick. no.
>I just want to learn to run a lathe, do advanced machining, and make a frickload of money
choose one
machine shop has become a dead end of slave driver shop owners, worthless degen employees, and shit wages
This would be machining in nuclear power plants. So the degeneracy is at the very least legal.
if you've got an in a nuc plant, feel it out. i've heard they're pretty chill places to work and during the bust ass shutdown sessions, they get temp machinists to come in and do the grueling shit. it's mostly recutting phonograph finishes on pipe flanges for cooling water lines and killing 30 years until retirement
if money is no object then just buy a lathe and start learning yourself until you can make something impressive to wow people
I dont have 8 grand lying around, i just happen to have all my bills paid for April.
can you not already make that doing industrial maintenance? maybe switch industries?
I can, but the perks of the machining include
>more rigid, predictable schedule
>paid airfare
>hotel comp
>rental car
>per diem
>less strenuous
>same health and pension
Its a better package with more job security.
Take the classes.
Seriously why is this such an alien thing to people on here
Wanna learn something? Go to school
I'd say take the classes. you'll learn something and then if this one particular company decides to frick you over you'll still have enough experience to go work somewhere else. normal machinist jobs pay pretty decent, 50-100k depending on your area and experience, so it's worthwhile getting into it. especially worthwhile if you're interested in it, since you'll open doors later on for bigger money if you're able to buy some equipment and do things yourself. If you happen to be near Erie PA penn state behrend is hosting some ACE machine shop training programs this summer as well. don't listen to the gays telling you to just buy equipment and open your own shop, you'll obviously need a job in the meantime if you decide to go that route and what better way to do it than learn on someone else's dime.
t. senior engineering student, former cnc machinist, current cnc automation intern
>don't listen to the gays telling you to just buy equipment and open your own shop
^This. Machine shop mortality rates are high because it's such desperately cutthroat business. Experienced shop owners know enough to make it wise to work for one first. Learn from success.
definitely this, and also the financial cost of entry is extraordinarily high. oh, you need a new endmill? that will be $600 please, also you need 12 other endmills and a hundred taps, drill bits, reamers, etc for every job you end up doing. oh what's that, some part of your machine broke? sorry that's four figures minimum. you've got to have some money already to get into it, even if you're just dipping your toes in it.
lol wut? The biggest problem I have found from looking into this business is that you need a space to operate machines and the number of suitable spaces is much, much, much lower than you would expect which keeps the number of machine shops and small manufacturers low.
Startup costs for a machine shop are painfully small compared to other businesses of the same investment size. A Subway has more in the way of startup costs than a machine shop. I have also heard online from moaners that it is the "stiffest" of competition but I am in a city of nearly 800k and I have maybe 4 shops that do CNC work at all. Everyone else is a manufacturer of their own products.
Space must be an issue for your location since suitable spaces outside urban areas abound but if your area really is underserved (contact potential customers and do your own market survey) then it could be an opportunity.
Location is surprisingly important because local supply runs and proximity to customers matters. Three phase power at the pole is desirable but also is often billed at commercial rates while single phase is not (and phase converters are not a big deal nor are VFDs which are a control upgrade for many older machines).
List the machines YOU expect to start out with and how you expect to bridge gaps by outsourcing (everyone does) the stuff you're not set up for. For example our local EDM guy makes a mint off all the other general shops who bring him work. Other suppliers do Blanchard grinding (nasty so nobody actually likes it) and supply plate to order for further machining). You can't do it all yourself as a startup.
Repair machining makes money but requires a variety of machines old and recent plus a shitload of tooling. Most of this is bought at auction because new is not affordable except for high consumption little shit like drill bits and smaller end mills.
Many companies use shops states away. You could become one of them. It makes my bro a mint but those companies also compete with local companies.
Example loadout for my bros very profitable shop:
Two WWII era American Pacemaker manual lathes for large long work like paper mill rollers and other large shafting. Needed capability may not be constant but it's still required for long work. As least one big ass manual lathe is a must for repair machining.
Two large knee mills.
Two basic b***h Bridgeport dovetail ram mills for light utility work.
(Multiple mills permits setting up one for short run production with others free for individual work.)
Two EZ Trak CNC open knee mills. These made the owner well over a million bucks each over the years. They're the most important mills in the shop but the rest are required.
CNC turning center.
A basic b***h medium lathe because most parts aren't large. Bros Enco makes him gobs of cash.
Machine repair includes fab and my bro builds custom production machinery for local plants.
He rocks two large Acorn tables (buy used of course). Steel storage racks are nearby for easy forklifting. Oxy-acetylene gets used for hardening small parts, torch bending, brazing and soldering. At least two good MIG machines (one should be portable for mobile work in client locations) with at least one 250A minimum with 350 or better preferred. Separate wire feeders (suitcase feeder very much preferred which also allows onsite FCAW and MIG) can run off any power source. Lincoln and Miller make great ones but old Thermal Arc and Hobart (I have two Heftys) are fine too.
A medium size blast cabinet and at least a 10HP (real HP, not consumer chinesium fantasy HP0 compressor preferably with receiver tank and of course with water separators and filters at points of use). Air chisels and needle scalers advisable.
At least one large industrial horizontal band saw near the steel storage.
A non-shit fork lift.
Racking and storage are vital to tool control and efficient use of everything. Buy that at auction (and add forklift pockets in advance of need).
Forkifts need soft slings (to lift stock) and fork extensions for large light loads. Torching holes in tines is an OSHA foul and silly since hitch balls work fine on box tubing.
Tooling is major money but much cheaper bought at auction and via Ebay. Wise tooling purchases saves many thousands. For example I snagged six nice mill vises (four Kurts and two older good Taiwan clones) for $50 each at auction because they were so buried in chips they looked like granola bars.
Once you are working there will be little time to attend auctions until you get an employee or three as many are not on weekends (which filters posers so fine by me).
Rental, leasing or buying each has local pros and cons but either way you're paying a mortgage.
^This. The serious get formal training understanding they will still be a "green" machinist then work a few years in the industry because you cannot read all the details you need to experience.
Most of running a business is not the fun key tasks you like, it's the tedious shit that will wipe out your bank account if not done. Salesmanship, HazMat compliance, accounting (money leaks if not strictly controlled), management, IT (from Quickbooks to CAD, CAM, inventory management and more plus backups) etc are the tip of the iceberg.
You cannot know without doing. You can build some knowledge and skill basis but experience is key. If you work for a frickup that is a great lesson on what not to do.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/categories/shop-management-and-owner-issues.49/
Last but not least is customers WILL treat you as a bank and they know they have you by the balls so have enough capital to wait weeks on many payments and absorb losses (non-payment, customers go under etc).
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/when-does-net30-start.426259/
they dont have time to waste training you on their shit, thats why they said take noob classes so you dont come empty brained