>the domestic version has an estimated range of 200 to 300km
How do they double the range in the same frame size? This is also quoting MA range, where the missile has no control, and is basically useless against anything that can turn well.
>One blurry picture >Implessive, with this stroke fate has marked the decline of the west...
It's from an official Chinese booth at their Expo.
Explain why carnards are unstealthy? Explain the physical principles behind it Brainlet.
All moving slab control canards are very poor for spectral reflection with trying to reduce RSC. Under high deflection of the canards, they reflect much of the radar emissions back to the source. China uses them because they lack mature flight controls, and need them for stability and agility in the trans-sonic region - where it will spend much of its operation flight time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>How do they double the range in the same frame size?
no idea. you should see the estimated range of the PL-21 which they are currently developing. 400km, double that of the upcoming AIM-260. i feel like the Chinese are pulling these number out of their ass or something.
2 years ago
Anonymous
PL-21 is a much bigger missile, and it use ramjet instead of rocket, of course it's gonna have a longer range you mutt
2 years ago
Anonymous
They are.
PL-21 is a much bigger missile, and it use ramjet instead of rocket, of course it's gonna have a longer range you mutt
Let me see it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
i found an article on global security about the PL-21. it's a bigger missile so having that range could be believable. still don't know why the PL-15 could reaches 200km though.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-21.htm
2 years ago
Anonymous
>still don't know why the PL-15 could reaches 200km though.
Because it's bigger than their American counterpart, that's also why F-22 can carry 6 aim while J-20 only carries 4 pl15
2 years ago
Anonymous
Cool. Now, show me tests of it hitting anything at 150km+. Can you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Only people that can do that are those who also glow, moron. You think some three letter agency analyst is going to ever post shit like that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So, you can't? Typical chinsect propaganda: all words.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Expects all the exact specs of another nations weapon from a cantonese opera forum
You're a special kind of stupid aren't cha?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Expects all the exact specs
Where did I say this? They claim 200km-350km. I just asked for tests of 150km. Much less than the max range. You can't even do that, as they don't work past 120km. You and excuse cope all you want, yet, you know it's the truth. Chinsect propaganda only works when it's only words, with the caveat of "IT SECLET! YOU TRUST, YES?!?!?!" That your tired, played out propaganda back to sinodefenceforum, Ping Qei.
now post PL-15 range and actual F-22 RCS, since such kinds of military secrets are public knowledge
2 years ago
Anonymous
show me tests of armram hitting anything
2 years ago
Anonymous
AMRAAM has confirmed air to air kills moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The D variant?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Show me, moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
>armram
It's AMRAAM, smoothbrain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Under high deflection
Those canards deflect very little so it doesn't really compromise stealth. Big deflection happens within visual stealth won't be much use by then anyway
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Those canards deflect very little
How would you know this?
Phoenix worked ok. Iran shot down tons using it. The PLA has the advantage that the war will be right in their doorstep, so they can use more powerful ground based radars to help track.
China, at this point, is able to play gatekeeping with their tier one tech and doesn't have to prostitute their top of the line aircraft to turd world countries unlike Russia, the UK or France
Implessive!
So they finally got past having to import engines from a turd world country like Russia because they were too inept to manufacture them domestically?
Chinese tier one tech is European and Russian tier two tech. Not to mention, we've seen how machines in China operate, or to put more precisely fail to operate. This is going to be no different
Chinese tier one tech is European and Russian tier two tech. Not to mention, we've seen how machines in China operate, or to put more precisely fail to operate. This is going to be no different
>not much more than the F-35.
The F-35 has a huge combat radius, especially for a single seat fighter. With drop tanks its larger than most twin engine fighters.
Well those aircraft dont operate in a vacuum. Slant eyed fricks are in for a suprise when they get gutsy enough to crawl out of their piss infested hellhole
moronic YouTube expert detected. >muh canard
Canard are unstealthy is most situation but not in the case of the j20. The F/A-XX has the same canard configuration as the J-20, and it's a stealth design.
I'd rather they use them and realize their downsides themselves when amraams start swatting them out of the sky. But if you must know >Composite structure partially opaque to radar >Hinge assembly made of metal >Shitty ram
There's a reason all those concept art planes with canards didn't get produced.
Not to mention canards offer no benefit in the era of stealth. Since this is meant to be an AWACS hunter, maneuver is not needed at all, the stealth reduction, which is measurable, is a net negative to the function of the plane in its stated mission.
By your logic the wing is also unstealthy you brainlet
For the record I literally never watch youtube, it's from years of 3D modelling and tracking aircraft as a hobby and intuition and practical application regarding radio wave mechanics on materials in a job I used to work at. If you're smart, a lot of this stuff comes intuitively once you figure out the base mechanics of the systems you're working with.
Heaven forbid could I manufacture them myself, but I can point out flaws I have seen in other aircraft before.
Yes I'm a hobbyist, but the flaws are plane (Kek) as day, and the other posters have done a good job explaining for me.
I'm an mechanical engineer who work in the industry.
Canard are not inherently unstealthy, (the x36 stealth plane has carnard) it depends on many factors such as angle and material used. In case of the J 20, the angle itself medicate most of issues with canard.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm an mechanical engineer who work in the industry.
Proof?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tbf, X-36 size is so small that it's canards will have minimal effect on the returns and it being a non-moving part too. And yes, canards are bad on certain angles. Wings provide bad reflection at certain angles and using canards will amplify it. Also the question of angles of the canard itself. If it moves maybe 30° degrees up then it will reflect and the discontinuity in the aircraft will be big which again adds more to the reflection.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And yes, canards are bad on certain angles. Wings provide bad reflection at certain angles and using canards will amplify
either you provide a fricking emission return model or stfu.
Because it's pretty clear to me you have no idea what truly impacts EM diffraction and reflection.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's wrong in my statement? I've said "at certain angles". Just like on a conventional design, a normal wing will incur an RCS penalty to certain degrees above and below and certain sides too(which the Europeans try to exploit which people use as proof but conveniently forget that such roe is very slim) and this apply to canards. But some canards are movable on the vertical direction which will incur a reflection on the panel and the discontinuity.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What's wrong in my statement?
Ever read Ufimtsev?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I guess my statement is incomplete. Canards will have their own set of reflection and like wings, it will have a certain angles which will return the signal too.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, I haven't now that you mention it. Why don't you explain the math instead of making throwaway namedrops to pretend you know more than you do.
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol
yep, u a fricking moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>lol >you (No caps) >u >a
No engineer who actually works in the industry types like a 27 year old high school drop out
2 years ago
Anonymous
Said the moron that never went to engineering faculty.
https://i.imgur.com/IBStQkS.jpg
Uh, anon
See
https://i.imgur.com/L4lr6lf.jpg
You are dumb.
J20 canards only move when it's within visual range when stealth is already compromised so to give it more maneuverability. When flying at bvr, the canards don't move, and their angle doesn't comprise stealth. So it has the best of both world
2 years ago
Anonymous
You are dumb.
J20 canards only move when it's within visual range when stealth is already compromised so to give it more maneuverability. When flying at bvr, the canards don't move, and their angle doesn't comprise stealth. So it has the best of both world
2 years ago
Anonymous
You’re confused. Well so are others in here I guess.
Let’s just be straight with you here. There may be good design reasons for the Rafale canards; but they don’t transfer to the J-20. Purpose-designed stealth jets, ie, 5th-gen, which the J-20 is supposed to be — canards are SIMPLY a detriment. Period. The only possible reason for a stealth aircraft, supposedly 5th-gen, to have canards, is to be CRUTCH for some problematic flight issue. A trade-off to cover for poor flight characteristics, something the F-22 and F-35 address through airframe design + flight control tech.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You are moronic.
You have little understanding of stealth and canards
2 years ago
Anonymous
> canards are SIMPLY a detriment
Why?
What’s edge diffraction? What’s inline vs close coupled delta canard?
You’re full of shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I’m well aware that canards can be managed for RCS, but if you think that’s what’s going on here — you’re probably coping the SAME way the actual engineers designing the J-20 coped. You see, given it’s most likely flight profile vs adversaries the RCS effects of our big-ass, mobile canard isn’t actually that bad…! But in reality the canards have to be there because the designers HAD to design the aircraft around their old, obsolete engines. So many of the design niceties available to Lockmart and Northrop etc weren’t available to the Chinese. And the FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20 means they were unhappy with the design. They have them around just to say they have 5th gen (probably doesn’t raise to 5th gen to begin with but it’s the claim that’s important to them).
2 years ago
Anonymous
>HAD to design the aircraft around their old, obsolete engines.
you're fricking moronic.
>And the FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20
Yeah? How many did they built? >means they were unhappy with the design
Yeah? Is that why the two seater variant prototype just started to fly?
GTFO you dumb fricking homosexual.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Post wrists Chang.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Post skin color mutt
2 years ago
Anonymous
post guns b***h.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also the fact the PLA picked the j20 over the f22 lock alike that became the j31means the design prob offer some advantages
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shenyang's J31 started as a private venture. I don't know if they lost the competition to Chengdu or if it's just something they did.
2 years ago
Anonymous
J20 was competiting against a f22 look alike. In the end the j20 was the design that was chosen. The j31 was an offshot of that f22 look alike design
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, the help from MIG and the Mig1.42.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20 means they were unhappy with the design.
They build over 150. You are full of shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean yeah that's why I don't make it sound like it will be moving all the time. I only put it as some sort of hypothetical and I included it to catch some questions that some posters will throw around here in the future like "what if it moves".
Still tho, it will have effects.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The effects is bad penalty.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What the frick is this shit? Jean is not a white supremacist.
Also that fricking prostitute isn't even a human, she's ancient Atlantean alien.
2 years ago
Anonymous
. Just looking at the airframe it’s totally imbalanced and will pitch down in any adverse conditions. This is a hallmark of Chinese aircraft design. They like swept back lift surfaces to combat drag while maintaining enough wing thickness to store fuel for range. The canard is a crutch to pull the main moment of lift force forward closer to the center of gravity while also directing slower air under the main wings. Depending on the angle, the RCS effects are either negative (additive to the RCS) or negligible… either case biased towards more radar return. The other problem with the design is the tail control surfaces. They’re extremely small. This aircraft will never have great maneuverability and thrust vectoring won’t help because this aircraft doesn’t have the adequate control surface area to maintain stability in low airspeed/stall conditions like a Su57 or F22 does. Essentially what you have is a ranging hotrod that’s good for nothing but BVR. And unless it has very good IR tracking at range (impossible with current tech), other stealth birds are going to hunt it down due to its own massive IR signature especially when they put in the newer more powerful engines. It’s intended role as an AWACS hunter is notable but this thing won’t be survivable against opposing interceptor aircraft
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The other problem with the design is the tail control surfaces. They’re extremely small >extremely small
The entire vertical fin moves in addition on the control surface on the fin.
2 years ago
Anonymous
> Just looking at the airframe
You’re dumb.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No they move in all flight environments you're moronic anon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the angle itself medicate most of issues with canard
ching chong ping pong
For the record I literally never watch youtube, it's from years of 3D modelling and tracking aircraft as a hobby and intuition and practical application regarding radio wave mechanics on materials in a job I used to work at. If you're smart, a lot of this stuff comes intuitively once you figure out the base mechanics of the systems you're working with.
Heaven forbid could I manufacture them myself, but I can point out flaws I have seen in other aircraft before.
Yes I'm a hobbyist, but the flaws are plane (Kek) as day, and the other posters have done a good job explaining for me.
You are moronic.
You have little understanding of stealth and canards
He says, posting nothing to back up his claim.
By your logic the wing is also unstealthy you brainlet
[...]
I'm an mechanical engineer who work in the industry.
Canard are not inherently unstealthy, (the x36 stealth plane has carnard) it depends on many factors such as angle and material used. In case of the J 20, the angle itself medicate most of issues with canard.
Depends on how you setup the canards IG, but they aren't "stuck in place until they need to do high G manouvers"
those bulges on the wings are where the linkages between the control surfaces and the wing are, can't get rid of them. If they were any smaller, they wouldn't be beefy enough to stand up to the forces of flight. Check US aircraft, many also have similar protrusions.
those bulges on the wings are where the linkages between the control surfaces and the wing are, can't get rid of them. If they were any smaller, they wouldn't be beefy enough to stand up to the forces of flight. Check US aircraft, many also have similar protrusions.
Yeah even f22 has those buldges. The average /k/ is a gun owning redneck with a Black person tier iq and who don't know shit
[...]
/k/ is full of low iq gun owning redneck, that's why they cope.
Knowing how to assemble a gun doesn't make one an aerospace engineer, noew does it give any deep understanding of fluid mechanics and radar waves
/k/ is full of low iq gun owning redneck, that's why they cope.
Knowing how to assemble a gun doesn't make one an aerospace engineer, noew does it give any deep understanding of fluid mechanics and radar waves
Shut up moron. Go read on Bernoulli equation for start to sound less dumb.
I blame the Ukraine invasion for bringing in the armchair experts. If they were alive for desert storm, they’d be reformer tier commentators, going on about muh A-10. But while popular media has finally debunked Sprey style shit in the public eye, the same moronation remains, and the monkeys go right to the next moronic thought process; in this case, completely believing that the situation in the South China Sea right now is the exact same as it was in the 90s.
In the 90s the USA show up with 2 carriers strike group. Now US carriers ran away and the US is moving asses from the 1st and 2nd island chain to Guam. US is in full retreat, but moronic plebs still believe US made China lose face.
I blame the Ukraine invasion for bringing in the armchair experts. If they were alive for desert storm, they’d be reformer tier commentators, going on about muh A-10. But while popular media has finally debunked Sprey style shit in the public eye, the same moronation remains, and the monkeys go right to the next moronic thought process; in this case, completely believing that the situation in the South China Sea right now is the exact same as it was in the 90s.
in the sense that they're going to ideally be used as semi-stealth point fighters that can cruise in quickly, snipe AWACs/tankers, then dash away again, yes
Missiles the size of the PL-15 are meant to attack things like AWACS, B-52s, etc. They have crappy terminal ballistics at max range and will never hit an evading fighter jet. There’s a reason the AMRAAM remained the general size and weight it has for decades while gradually improving performance.
Not hating on the PL-15, understand. There’s a lot of AWACS and other strategic aircraft they may need to target in the case of war. The US and allies deal with such threats differently. That why the Phoenix got phased out.
This is also why the J-20 is mediocre at close range. It’s entire purpose is to sling those giant ass long range missiles at support aircraft, then return to base to do it again.
Reminder that concept artists thought the F-117 would look like this.
Even Tom Clancy got it wrong in Red Storm Rising. He thought it would be smooth and sleek, armed with anti-air missiles, stealthy from the top when flying very low but vulnerable from the bottom.
Concept artists don't know shit about a plane until they've actually seen it, and they don't get to see it before anybody else.
Look. I know why the J20 was put into production, even if just in limited numbers while the world is proliferating 5th gen like crazy. China simply wanted to claim they had the capability. Just to be in the 5th-gen club. So they strictly control the images that get out into the wild so all we get are blurry low-res images so that the public can’t easily figure out that this is likely just a 4th-gen in terms of real capabilities / design. It has internal weapons bays and some evident stealth design, etc, so it’s just a matter of doing the usual lies (or simply letting the public create modern capabilities based on nothing but low-res visuals and the state of the art available from other countries). I assume the CCP has built up a lot of wisdom about how to spread BS and present images.
It seems optimized to hunt down AWACs and other non-fighters over extreme long ranges and heavily jammed airpace.
>over extreme long ranges
It has a combat radius of 800mi, not much more than the F-35.
>and heavily jammed airpace.
Proof?
well j-20 is armed with pl-15 missiles which outrange the aim-120 missiles
>well j-20 is armed with pl-15 missiles which outrange the aim-120 missiles
Proof? PL-15 is max 145km range.
>[citation needed]
Literally everywhere. 2700km with FOUR drop tanks is its max range one way. Combat radius is half that.
>One blurry picture
>Implessive, with this stroke fate has marked the decline of the west...
>PL-15E
that's the export version. the domestic version has an estimated range of 200 to 300km
>the domestic version has an estimated range of 200 to 300km
How do they double the range in the same frame size? This is also quoting MA range, where the missile has no control, and is basically useless against anything that can turn well.
It's from an official Chinese booth at their Expo.
All moving slab control canards are very poor for spectral reflection with trying to reduce RSC. Under high deflection of the canards, they reflect much of the radar emissions back to the source. China uses them because they lack mature flight controls, and need them for stability and agility in the trans-sonic region - where it will spend much of its operation flight time.
>How do they double the range in the same frame size?
no idea. you should see the estimated range of the PL-21 which they are currently developing. 400km, double that of the upcoming AIM-260. i feel like the Chinese are pulling these number out of their ass or something.
PL-21 is a much bigger missile, and it use ramjet instead of rocket, of course it's gonna have a longer range you mutt
They are.
Let me see it.
i found an article on global security about the PL-21. it's a bigger missile so having that range could be believable. still don't know why the PL-15 could reaches 200km though.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-21.htm
>still don't know why the PL-15 could reaches 200km though.
Because it's bigger than their American counterpart, that's also why F-22 can carry 6 aim while J-20 only carries 4 pl15
Cool. Now, show me tests of it hitting anything at 150km+. Can you?
Only people that can do that are those who also glow, moron. You think some three letter agency analyst is going to ever post shit like that.
So, you can't? Typical chinsect propaganda: all words.
>Expects all the exact specs of another nations weapon from a cantonese opera forum
You're a special kind of stupid aren't cha?
>Expects all the exact specs
Where did I say this? They claim 200km-350km. I just asked for tests of 150km. Much less than the max range. You can't even do that, as they don't work past 120km. You and excuse cope all you want, yet, you know it's the truth. Chinsect propaganda only works when it's only words, with the caveat of "IT SECLET! YOU TRUST, YES?!?!?!" That your tired, played out propaganda back to sinodefenceforum, Ping Qei.
You’re moronic
Cope, shrimp dick.
Yes.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-syria-shootdown-kill-markings/
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_mbYiZiYWXg
My penis>your penis, goy
now post PL-15 range and actual F-22 RCS, since such kinds of military secrets are public knowledge
show me tests of armram hitting anything
AMRAAM has confirmed air to air kills moron.
The D variant?
Show me, moron
>armram
It's AMRAAM, smoothbrain.
>Under high deflection
Those canards deflect very little so it doesn't really compromise stealth. Big deflection happens within visual stealth won't be much use by then anyway
>Those canards deflect very little
How would you know this?
Uh, anon
>outranges AM120…
Which is pointless if the aircraft itself can’t track targets from that far
Phoenix worked ok. Iran shot down tons using it. The PLA has the advantage that the war will be right in their doorstep, so they can use more powerful ground based radars to help track.
outrange the aim-120 missiles on paper*
"Like a Mig-21" except faster, long-legged, stealthy and with better weaponry. So... nothing like a MiG-21.
>It has a combat radius of 800mi
[citation needed]
But they're both cheap piles of shit
You can't even get to buy one.
China, at this point, is able to play gatekeeping with their tier one tech and doesn't have to prostitute their top of the line aircraft to turd world countries unlike Russia, the UK or France
Implessive!
So they finally got past having to import engines from a turd world country like Russia because they were too inept to manufacture them domestically?
Chinese tier one tech is European and Russian tier two tech. Not to mention, we've seen how machines in China operate, or to put more precisely fail to operate. This is going to be no different
war isn't an rts game
>not much more than the F-35.
The F-35 has a huge combat radius, especially for a single seat fighter. With drop tanks its larger than most twin engine fighters.
Well those aircraft dont operate in a vacuum. Slant eyed fricks are in for a suprise when they get gutsy enough to crawl out of their piss infested hellhole
I like it china, just remove pic rel and actually learn how to do stealth coatings and materials and you're all good.
moronic YouTube expert detected.
>muh canard
Canard are unstealthy is most situation but not in the case of the j20. The F/A-XX has the same canard configuration as the J-20, and it's a stealth design.
Go learn something brainlet
>literally fanart
https://www.behance.net/gallery/60192893/Sixth-Generation-FA-XX-Fighter
Explain why carnards are unstealthy? Explain the physical principles behind it Brainlet.
I'd rather they use them and realize their downsides themselves when amraams start swatting them out of the sky. But if you must know
>Composite structure partially opaque to radar
>Hinge assembly made of metal
>Shitty ram
There's a reason all those concept art planes with canards didn't get produced.
Not to mention canards offer no benefit in the era of stealth. Since this is meant to be an AWACS hunter, maneuver is not needed at all, the stealth reduction, which is measurable, is a net negative to the function of the plane in its stated mission.
By your logic the wing is also unstealthy you brainlet
I'm an mechanical engineer who work in the industry.
Canard are not inherently unstealthy, (the x36 stealth plane has carnard) it depends on many factors such as angle and material used. In case of the J 20, the angle itself medicate most of issues with canard.
>I'm an mechanical engineer who work in the industry.
Proof?
Tbf, X-36 size is so small that it's canards will have minimal effect on the returns and it being a non-moving part too. And yes, canards are bad on certain angles. Wings provide bad reflection at certain angles and using canards will amplify it. Also the question of angles of the canard itself. If it moves maybe 30° degrees up then it will reflect and the discontinuity in the aircraft will be big which again adds more to the reflection.
>And yes, canards are bad on certain angles. Wings provide bad reflection at certain angles and using canards will amplify
either you provide a fricking emission return model or stfu.
Because it's pretty clear to me you have no idea what truly impacts EM diffraction and reflection.
What's wrong in my statement? I've said "at certain angles". Just like on a conventional design, a normal wing will incur an RCS penalty to certain degrees above and below and certain sides too(which the Europeans try to exploit which people use as proof but conveniently forget that such roe is very slim) and this apply to canards. But some canards are movable on the vertical direction which will incur a reflection on the panel and the discontinuity.
>What's wrong in my statement?
Ever read Ufimtsev?
I guess my statement is incomplete. Canards will have their own set of reflection and like wings, it will have a certain angles which will return the signal too.
No, I haven't now that you mention it. Why don't you explain the math instead of making throwaway namedrops to pretend you know more than you do.
lol
yep, u a fricking moron.
>lol
>you (No caps)
>u
>a
No engineer who actually works in the industry types like a 27 year old high school drop out
Said the moron that never went to engineering faculty.
See
You are dumb.
J20 canards only move when it's within visual range when stealth is already compromised so to give it more maneuverability. When flying at bvr, the canards don't move, and their angle doesn't comprise stealth. So it has the best of both world
You’re confused. Well so are others in here I guess.
Let’s just be straight with you here. There may be good design reasons for the Rafale canards; but they don’t transfer to the J-20. Purpose-designed stealth jets, ie, 5th-gen, which the J-20 is supposed to be — canards are SIMPLY a detriment. Period. The only possible reason for a stealth aircraft, supposedly 5th-gen, to have canards, is to be CRUTCH for some problematic flight issue. A trade-off to cover for poor flight characteristics, something the F-22 and F-35 address through airframe design + flight control tech.
You are moronic.
You have little understanding of stealth and canards
> canards are SIMPLY a detriment
Why?
What’s edge diffraction? What’s inline vs close coupled delta canard?
You’re full of shit.
I’m well aware that canards can be managed for RCS, but if you think that’s what’s going on here — you’re probably coping the SAME way the actual engineers designing the J-20 coped. You see, given it’s most likely flight profile vs adversaries the RCS effects of our big-ass, mobile canard isn’t actually that bad…! But in reality the canards have to be there because the designers HAD to design the aircraft around their old, obsolete engines. So many of the design niceties available to Lockmart and Northrop etc weren’t available to the Chinese. And the FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20 means they were unhappy with the design. They have them around just to say they have 5th gen (probably doesn’t raise to 5th gen to begin with but it’s the claim that’s important to them).
>HAD to design the aircraft around their old, obsolete engines.
you're fricking moronic.
>And the FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20
Yeah? How many did they built?
>means they were unhappy with the design
Yeah? Is that why the two seater variant prototype just started to fly?
GTFO you dumb fricking homosexual.
Post wrists Chang.
Post skin color mutt
post guns b***h.
Also the fact the PLA picked the j20 over the f22 lock alike that became the j31means the design prob offer some advantages
Shenyang's J31 started as a private venture. I don't know if they lost the competition to Chengdu or if it's just something they did.
J20 was competiting against a f22 look alike. In the end the j20 was the design that was chosen. The j31 was an offshot of that f22 look alike design
Yeah, the help from MIG and the Mig1.42.
>FACT that the Chinese only built a relative handful of the J-20 means they were unhappy with the design.
They build over 150. You are full of shit.
I mean yeah that's why I don't make it sound like it will be moving all the time. I only put it as some sort of hypothetical and I included it to catch some questions that some posters will throw around here in the future like "what if it moves".
Still tho, it will have effects.
The effects is bad penalty.
What the frick is this shit? Jean is not a white supremacist.
Also that fricking prostitute isn't even a human, she's ancient Atlantean alien.
. Just looking at the airframe it’s totally imbalanced and will pitch down in any adverse conditions. This is a hallmark of Chinese aircraft design. They like swept back lift surfaces to combat drag while maintaining enough wing thickness to store fuel for range. The canard is a crutch to pull the main moment of lift force forward closer to the center of gravity while also directing slower air under the main wings. Depending on the angle, the RCS effects are either negative (additive to the RCS) or negligible… either case biased towards more radar return. The other problem with the design is the tail control surfaces. They’re extremely small. This aircraft will never have great maneuverability and thrust vectoring won’t help because this aircraft doesn’t have the adequate control surface area to maintain stability in low airspeed/stall conditions like a Su57 or F22 does. Essentially what you have is a ranging hotrod that’s good for nothing but BVR. And unless it has very good IR tracking at range (impossible with current tech), other stealth birds are going to hunt it down due to its own massive IR signature especially when they put in the newer more powerful engines. It’s intended role as an AWACS hunter is notable but this thing won’t be survivable against opposing interceptor aircraft
>The other problem with the design is the tail control surfaces. They’re extremely small
>extremely small
The entire vertical fin moves in addition on the control surface on the fin.
> Just looking at the airframe
You’re dumb.
No they move in all flight environments you're moronic anon.
>the angle itself medicate most of issues with canard
ching chong ping pong
Ooga ooga booga ooga
Dumb
>artist's rendering of a top secret project
>supposed to mean anything
You have to understand, chinsects are like Russians, they just state obvious lies over and over and hope you get tired.
>It has canards in this picture
That artist also drew pictures of it without canards lol
Cherry picks one artist rendering of NGAD ignores all the others that don’t have canards
For the record I literally never watch youtube, it's from years of 3D modelling and tracking aircraft as a hobby and intuition and practical application regarding radio wave mechanics on materials in a job I used to work at. If you're smart, a lot of this stuff comes intuitively once you figure out the base mechanics of the systems you're working with.
Heaven forbid could I manufacture them myself, but I can point out flaws I have seen in other aircraft before.
Yes I'm a hobbyist, but the flaws are plane (Kek) as day, and the other posters have done a good job explaining for me.
You don’t know shit.
He says, posting nothing to back up his claim.
Depends on how you setup the canards IG, but they aren't "stuck in place until they need to do high G manouvers"
Yeah. Even a movement of 10° will have a reflection.
>thinks a pajeet artist rendering gives any indication of how a secret program is going to look
Chinks truly are the bugs of the human race
those bulges on the wings are where the linkages between the control surfaces and the wing are, can't get rid of them. If they were any smaller, they wouldn't be beefy enough to stand up to the forces of flight. Check US aircraft, many also have similar protrusions.
You are moronic.
Yeah even f22 has those buldges. The average /k/ is a gun owning redneck with a Black person tier iq and who don't know shit
Chinky mad chinky mad
>it's okay when it's the F22 though
cope
Impotent chinkoids still obsessed and seething
no
/k/ is full of low iq gun owning redneck, that's why they cope.
Knowing how to assemble a gun doesn't make one an aerospace engineer, noew does it give any deep understanding of fluid mechanics and radar waves
Im a pilot and you're moronic.
Nobody gives a shit about your 80k cessna, b***h.
Shut up moron. Go read on Bernoulli equation for start to sound less dumb.
In the 90s the USA show up with 2 carriers strike group. Now US carriers ran away and the US is moving asses from the 1st and 2nd island chain to Guam. US is in full retreat, but moronic plebs still believe US made China lose face.
Try again kiddies, the J20 is trash and neither of you are even close to qualified to even talk about this.
I can't wait to bomb the chicoms.
Hilariously dumb
See kids, this is why you don't post in a hapanda thread. He'll just start babbling about how dumb you are
>everything I disagree with is chink propaganda
Black person you're moronic as frick.
I blame the Ukraine invasion for bringing in the armchair experts. If they were alive for desert storm, they’d be reformer tier commentators, going on about muh A-10. But while popular media has finally debunked Sprey style shit in the public eye, the same moronation remains, and the monkeys go right to the next moronic thought process; in this case, completely believing that the situation in the South China Sea right now is the exact same as it was in the 90s.
I think in 5 years they will completely switch to their aircraft with their components
in the sense that they're going to ideally be used as semi-stealth point fighters that can cruise in quickly, snipe AWACs/tankers, then dash away again, yes
>getting shot down over the Taiwan strait
I guess it'll be used the same ways as Migs
It's only good for mass napalm strikes against GLA positions and mob rushes. Absolutely useless against SAMs, Stealth Fighters and F-22s
More like the mig -31
damn I didn't know it had such an ugly underbelly
Except parts randomly fall off because, you know, Chinese.
creaturas fuming
>Is this going to be used like a MiG?
But anon, it IS a MiG!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Project_1.44
>Both are delta canard, therefore is copy
You are moronic
looks familiar
oh, right
>you can buy a mig-21 for under $100k
What the frick, why don’t more richgays own fighter jets?
That's surprisingly low. I remember a certain Soviet plane that a company bought and made it as some sort of a prop. How much did that cost them?
Missiles the size of the PL-15 are meant to attack things like AWACS, B-52s, etc. They have crappy terminal ballistics at max range and will never hit an evading fighter jet. There’s a reason the AMRAAM remained the general size and weight it has for decades while gradually improving performance.
Not hating on the PL-15, understand. There’s a lot of AWACS and other strategic aircraft they may need to target in the case of war. The US and allies deal with such threats differently. That why the Phoenix got phased out.
Phoenix was trash
This is also why the J-20 is mediocre at close range. It’s entire purpose is to sling those giant ass long range missiles at support aircraft, then return to base to do it again.
Reminder that concept artists thought the F-117 would look like this.
Even Tom Clancy got it wrong in Red Storm Rising. He thought it would be smooth and sleek, armed with anti-air missiles, stealthy from the top when flying very low but vulnerable from the bottom.
Concept artists don't know shit about a plane until they've actually seen it, and they don't get to see it before anybody else.
amerimutt moment
Look. I know why the J20 was put into production, even if just in limited numbers while the world is proliferating 5th gen like crazy. China simply wanted to claim they had the capability. Just to be in the 5th-gen club. So they strictly control the images that get out into the wild so all we get are blurry low-res images so that the public can’t easily figure out that this is likely just a 4th-gen in terms of real capabilities / design. It has internal weapons bays and some evident stealth design, etc, so it’s just a matter of doing the usual lies (or simply letting the public create modern capabilities based on nothing but low-res visuals and the state of the art available from other countries). I assume the CCP has built up a lot of wisdom about how to spread BS and present images.
>This. It's literally all China does to keep relevant when not stealing from better nations (or buy tech from israelites).