So /k/, what is the best LPVO money can buy. FFP or SFP?
1-6 / 1-8 / 1-10?
Which Brand?
Which Reticle?
I'm curious about the new PA plx 1-8. But the illumination sucks ass as usual with lpvos.
So?
So /k/, what is the best LPVO money can buy. FFP or SFP?
1-6 / 1-8 / 1-10?
Which Brand?
Which Reticle?
I'm curious about the new PA plx 1-8. But the illumination sucks ass as usual with lpvos.
Just got a primary arms 1-6 acss raptor. Its cheap but seems like it's gonna be worth what it is worth.
Yeah, i have an old Stike Eagle 1-6. But the illumination an the reticle seems a bit dated. Nonetheless it's what you payed for.
Higher price equals more quality for sure.
Nigforce is pretty good but is like two G’s
yeah, that sucks ass m8.
But what model would you recommend?
The NX8 had glass that could spot all the pores on the teenage wagie who unlocked the glass cage in crystal clear definition.
https://www.brownells.com/optics/scopes/rifle-scopes/match-precision-optic~-mpo-5-25x56mm-rifle-scope/
While it isnt a LPVO I heard this thing is good
The ATACR is good, the NX8 is fricking dogshit ESPECIALLY for its price
Schmidt & Bender PMII 1-8x Shortdot is the absolute gucciest option I can think of, especially if you want to slap some clip-on thermals and a rangefinder on your rifle to go with it. But even though you asked what the best money can buy is, it's legitimately diminishing returns past the ~$1400 price point. A S&B is unassailable quality but it's not twice as good as an ATACR or three times as good as a Vudu/Tango6/Accupoint.
this sounds reasonable.
Maybe i will end up with the lightes option. So PA with an ultralight mount.
>FFP or SFP
Why not both?
>FFP or SFP?
doesn't matter. by the time you're using the reticle for range estimation and drop compensation you're on full magnification anyway.
>1-6 / 1-8 / 1-10?
depends on the farthest you're going to use it at. higher magnification usually means worse eyebox.
>Which Brand?
I have a Kahles 1-8 and am very happy with it. I suggest you look through a few and decide.
reticle is a matter of taste.
Check out C_DOES on youtube
tl:dr
Primary Arms 1-6x LPVO is your winner
Night Force is all the rage but I've never looked through one.
The American made military Vortex, (Razor iirc) is excellent.
You basically want the best glass and largest tube diameter.
The army uses more NF’s than cortexs
Okay, I was drawing a distinction between that Vortex and other Vortex LPVO.
I
Pretty sure the only real contract vortex has is the NGSW optic.
I’ve seen pics of boots with vipers and strike eagles which were paid from their own pocket.
Ukrainians use strike eagles.
Ukrainian gear spans the gamut. Some of them probably have Sightmarks, others have gucci gear costing thousands of dollars. I imagine most just take what they can get.
I want to say that the most common high-end optic I’ve seen on Ukrainian rifles (thermals aside) is the Elcan SpecterDR 1/4x, though maybe that’s just because its shape is more distinctive. Also can’t say whether that’s because they like it more or because they’ve received more of them. Funnily enough I’ve probably seen more actual Elcans than Russia’s knockoff of the concept lmao. (Wolf PSU and PA.) I know they’ve received Nightforces but I’ve only spotted them handling the H/MPVOs as I recall.
Most common magnified optic period seems to be some cheap prism like the Primary Arms fixed powers or the Vortex Spitfires. I know Zelenskyy’s personal guard was spotted using TA31s, seems like some have paired RMRs and some don’t.
>Ukrainian gear spans the gamut. Some of them probably have Sightmarks, others have gucci gear costing thousands of dollars. I imagine most just take what they can get.
Yeah it's a really fascinating motley mix of stuff thrown out there but anything decent is better than nothing and for those dependent on donations or what can be scraped together I'm sure they take what they can.
There’s a lot of corruption in the Ukrainian army so a lot of officers just sell the fancy foreign aid and then give their troops Amazon stuff
Well whatever it is, I'm no brand prostitute.
Give me:
>sturdy construction that holds zero
>clear glass
>good light transmission
Which to my knowledge is exemplified in the Vortex Razor HD.
There is no single best LPVO. Past a certain price point, it really depends on what combination of features you want. For example, as has been mentioned, the S&B Dual CC 1-8x is the most expensive offering available that I'm aware of, but I'm not sure I'd even put it in the top 5 best LPVOs for 1x performance. (I'll grant you that I haven't looked through one personally but I have seen enough videos, photos, and reviews to form a reasonable guess.)
In order for me to give you the best recommendation, I'd need to know your planned use case, preferences, and platform & loading.
>I'll grant you that I haven't looked through one personally but I have seen enough videos, photos, and reviews to form a reasonable guess.
I'll sound a note of caution here, not about the S&B specifically but just in general when it comes to purchasing LPVOs: it's REALLY hard to do a decent job photographing/videoing them and have it be the same as when you're looking through it IRL. The complex interplay of eyes and lens vs camera lens and seeing it through a screen really is magnified (harhar) in LPVOs as opposed to a lot of other optic options.
If someone just wants to try to start getting into them without having used one before and gets some basic <$350 or a perfectly solid <$700 option maybe not worth stressing about much. But once you get into the $1500+ category absolutely worth trying to see some stuff in person. Pictures/video can give some idea of basics around reticle etc, but once spending that kind of money someone should be getting very picky around specifics and exactly what they're after. Even if you had to drive a couple of hours to find some place with a bunch of them I'd do it (after calling first), anywhere serious selling optics will be happy to let you look through all of them if you're serious about buying. I'd pay the extra local sales tax (in places that have it) too even.
Other caution is that tech is starting speed up around here as well. One reason that I didn't spend $2k+ was that I suspect I'll want to spend serious money in the next decade instead.
also here I'm assuming OP has actually run with LPVOs for awhile and knows that he likes them at all and wants to upgrade. If he's thinking about it purely based on /k/ memes or the like I'd really suggesting getting a basic decent swampfox or something first. Nicer ones have better glass, and a higher (though can be bench-only in practice) top mag, but there isn't any real change in the basic tradeoffs in terms of eyebox and all that. If you hate decent cheap LPVOs, spending 8x the money isn't going to magically be a different universe of product.
Agreed that looking through a camera is not the same as looking at it in real life. I’ll say though that I consider myself to have enough experience seeing through optics that I can reasonably infer some details about the latter from the former, assuming a useful perspective. Combine that with the known paper stats and you can frequently gain at least a little bit of information.
The primary issue comes from hidden quirks that often can’t be observed from a static position. For example, the NX8 has this extremely short length of space near the close end of its eye relief range (being: full FoV can be acquired) where the eyebox is quite good, and I haven’t seen any video display it. But if you move even just a tiny bit back, like a millimeter, then it shrinks dramatically.
The 4x ACOG also has this deal where its eyebox changes depending on where you’re at in the eye relief range, in the first half or so it’s amazing and in the second half or so it’s pretty small. Said eye relief range is also, despite being close to the ocular, absurdly long as a front-back measurement. (For most LPVOs it’s a fraction of an inch in my experience, the ACOG is like an inch+.) But another caveat, in certain lighting conditions the eyebox shrinks regardless of where you are.
Granted these are all things that require some experience and reflection. Someone who’s new to LPVOs (and even many who aren’t) probably won’t even be able to identify where the eye relief range is.
>Agreed that looking through a camera is not the same as looking at it in real life. I’ll say though that I consider myself to have enough experience seeing through optics that I can reasonably infer some details about the latter from the former, assuming a useful perspective. Combine that with the known paper stats and you can frequently gain at least a little bit of information.
Ah, yeah that's totally fair. Once you know enough about IRL you can definitely start to interpret video into a picture of how it actually is. I assume though that OP and others asking that kind of question have none of that though, but hard sometimes to strike the right balance, don't want to be patronizing, don't want someone new to miss something basic either.
>Someone who’s new to LPVOs (and even many who aren’t) probably won’t even be able to identify where the eye relief range is.
Right, why I added on about getting some basic to start and running it awhile. I've seen a lot of people have the instinct to go directly for the most gucci thing, "buy once cry once" gets thrown around alot in the community, but outside of nfa it's usually wrong. Most serious stuff doesn't actually have a "best" but tradeoffs and may not be at all what people imagine in their heads from video anyway. Someone could drop a ton of money and then end up not really using it much or being happy with it.
Yeah that’s understood, there’s no shortage of people misled by Youtube. And certainly, optic selection in particular is a field where you have a lot of viable options and no one clear objective winner (no pun intended) for everyone, even disregarding price.
>1-6
Vortex Razor Gen 2E or Eotech Vudu SFP
>1-8
Nightforce ATACR
>1-10
Vortex Razor Gen 3
Hows the eyebox on the 1-8 ATACR? I'm considering one
>he best LPVO money can buy
I don't know, maybe Deon/March F-Shorty 1-10x dual reticle.
Japanese glass (JP everything really because it's made in Japan), FFP and SFP combined to yield crosshairs and dot that don't change in size, with clearly visible drop/windage tables at 10x, in a package that's only 8.4" in total length.
From what I've seen on youtube videos there's also a guarantee that your scope was professionally banged on a rubber mat by qualified Japanese engineer
Huh, somehow never heard of them before. Looks very interesting for something compact, super lightweight and short.
Im happy with the Eotech Vudu 1-10 and the Vortex razor 1-10. Haven't tried anything else because I don't need to or want to.
Go to a tactical gunstore and ask to look through any LPVOs they have. If they aren't spergs they'll let you peep a scope before they buy it. As for pricepoint you spend significantly more for not much better performance at the top end usually. The normal rule is to spend at least 1x to 3/4ths what you spent on the rifle on the optics.
march 1-10 shorty
How did they pack 1-10 magnification in this little scope?
Couldn’t say about the engineering side. But it does seem to come with its own downsides.
One is that the depth of field seems to be limited. You actually have to use the side focus knob to get a sharp image at varying ranges, it’s not simply there as a nicety.
Another, and this one is something that I’m having a harder time verifying its consistency across different scopes, is that the image might have notable edge distortion at higher magnifications.
Cool piece of equipment though.
Another thing is it's got sort of a weird custom mount ring setup required, though compared to a few years ago apparently those are no longer semi-unobtanium.
>is that the image might have notable edge distortion at higher magnifications.
top mag on most LPVOs is so tight an eyebox not sure it matters much if the low mags are alright. If you're using x9/x10 you probably need to be braced anyway.
They’re coming out with a new 34mm tube that’s compatible with standard pattern optic mounts. It’s heavier but you can pair it with a lighter scope mount than what you were previously limited to.
1x looks very good from what I can tell on video, though refer to previous comments about the inexact translation from real life to film.
8x looks good (for an 8x LPVO - they almost all suck in this regard in comparison to MPVOs) but not the best. Objectively still small.
To be honest, most of that stuff is pretty much a given on almost all higher end optics. I suppose the Swarovskis have a reputation for being fragile (they’re not marketed for combat to begin with) and maybe the NX8 has pretty bad light transmission or something, I haven’t tested it there, but generally speaking those requirements are the minimum.
>They’re coming out with a new 34mm tube that’s compatible with standard pattern optic mounts. It’s heavier but you can pair it with a lighter scope mount than what you were previously limited to.
Good to know, they've been pleasantly responsive to feedback. They added that mrad reticle after launch as well.
I have an ATACR 1-8 (full disclosure, that I got as an open box from a friend working at an LGS at a sizable discount). The 1x is definitely fantastic, superb transmission, about as close to zero chromatic aberration as it gets, about as close to perfect true 1x as it gets. 8x is definitely not the widest eyebox though workable, optical quality still great, but as second anon says LPVOs in general at very tight at the top end of their mag range, nature of the beast. It's why an MPVO+ded1x is always worth at least considering instead. IMO LPVOs get overused and over recommended, they have excellent use cases but they're more niche than commonly stated. S&B top one is even tighter iirc. More money doesn't mean some way more generous eyebox unfortunately.
I do really like the current ATACR reticle though, illumination options are good, dials good. Comes with a good lever included. It's certainly decent, but it's still an lpvo.
the 34mm has moron huge uncapped turrets. not good for an LPVO
34mm are also heavy as frick. Like strapping a brick to the top of your gun.
not really. 3oz difference in most cases.
>but generally speaking those requirements are the minimum.
Lesser optics have cheaper glass, smaller tubes or aren't as durable. You can say it's the min but these are in some way subjective, or at least not yes no questions. All I'm getting at is that without first hand experience on these optics, you can at least look at tube size for light transmission and military contract for durability. If you have those 2 things, glass clarity is probably not bad.
So if I wanted the most elite best LPVO, I'd be looking at either the Razor HD Gen 2 or some big tube NightForce. However, if I were spending my own money, I'd just get:
https://www.leupold.com/mark-3hd-1-5-4x20-illum-firedot
Because it's $699, has the features I want and is at least mostly American made. The Razor HD Gen2 and NF or undoubtedly better but an American brand for $700 is fine for me.
Razor HD GEN II
I have a Swarovski z8i 1-8x with the 4A-IF reticle and it's hands down the best optic I've ever used or owned. I reckon an equivalent made by Schmidt & Bender is probably same caliber.
Yeah that's another absolutely top tier player.
I'm an autist who likes straight tube scopes and have LPVOs on all but one of my hunting rifles. The z8i is on a rifle chambered in 8x57. I prefer peep sights and irons on my ARs and equivalent semis but would have no qualms slapping the z8i on one. I think they are plenty rugged and up to the task.
Aimpoint T2
Get a 1-6, it's the most zoom ratio you can stuff in a small 30mm tube without significantly compromising on your 1x and max. If you want more, step up to an MPVO like a 2.5-10, which will blow any 1-8/1-10 out of the water in clarity and light gathering, and then have a piggyback red dot for 1x.
What’s the most durable lpvo?
Have a sig 1-10. Glass is ok, not the best. It's SFP so zeroing at 10 is fricking annoying, I kinda regret going full sperg and thinking 1-10 would be greater than 1-6 when anything i ever engaged in Iraq was sub 200 meters with a red dot.
honestly, like others been saying, figure out your ideal engagement distance and plan accordingly. i have a exps3 and g33 that does what my LVPO wishes it could for CQB vs range <200.
PIC unrelated.
For <200-300yd yeah I'd never recommend an LPVO vs a holo+flipmag or maybe a nice big mag compat 1x prism and flipmag for folks with the ol astigmatism. Conversely for some <100 and then >400 an MPVO+offset/top 1x can also be much better. So LPVO is kind of specific. Although that said
>I kinda regret going full sperg and thinking 1-10 would be greater than 1-6
Not familiar with the sig, but on quality FFP ones sometimes it's actually worth going for more mag you'll never use just because it means the 1-6 range ends up being more usable. Like x6 on a 1-10 can be better than x6 on a 1-6. I'm sure it varies based on whatever they're doing though. Anyway just trying to say maybe you weren't actually that sperg.