Six point blank shots to put the guy down for good? What kind of dogshit is the cop using?
Six point blank shots to put the guy down for good? What kind of dogshit is the cop using?
Six point blank shots to put the guy down for good? What kind of dogshit is the cop using?
death wish or drugs?
>Murphy's family, described him as struggling with drug addiction and that he was attempting to get help
Per the video description. Could be both.
>he was attempting to get help
I doubt that.
drugs do not help your survive rapid arterial blood loss. drugs are not a berserk pack
All evidence from police encountering belligerent drug addicts seems to contradict your post.
Police are often garbage shots. Drugs reduce the likelihood of psychological stops which is what happens when your aim is shit and you hit people 5 times in the intestines and legs. So if you are incompetent and your gun is more pain compliance tool than lethal implement then drugs might be a really great excuse for why you suck ass.
I’ve seen nothing to suggest that they greatly change the level of oxygen your brain needs to function on a cellular and molecular level which is where physical stops usually come from. Hell half the police shootings where nothing remarkable happens probably involve druggies anyway.
Isn't there a webm of a dude walking forward gnashing his teeth like a demon while being shot multiple times in the chest?
He was not stated to be on drugs as I recall.
The blood already in the capillaries of the brain can sometimes sustain a couple seconds of action after circulatory flow ceases. Couple that with the fact that the cop was firing at a rather sedentary pace (and may have missed the first few shots due to his moronic gangsta one handed shooting) and handgun bullets do not generally destroy the heart or lungs with a single shot. Takes a couple seconds for the cop to do enough damage to shut down his blood flow, then a few more for his brain timer to run out, and he drops.
And to be clear, aortic output will likely be reduced almost immediately after the first shot to the thoracic cavity. The successive shots increasingly cripple the cardiovascular system until the onset of cerebral hypoxia has reached its maximum rate and the brain receives no fresh blood at all. So technically the timer “starts” from the first chest shot but it counts down a lot faster as the heart and lungs are increasingly damaged.
With all this in mind, said shootee might be said to have lasted an exceptionally long time (maybe about 2.5 seconds at continuously decreasing levels of partial circulatory function and another 2-3 after the system has stopped working) considering most people probably only have a second or so of meaningful standing capability after their brain stops getting more blood, but it is not really outside the realm of what we would expect to be theoretically possible.
People certain do die when shot in the heart, but that's not the full picture. People black out after being shot even if the heart, surrounding major arteries and lungs are fine. The brain only runs out of oxygen like 10 minutes after the heart stops. People fall down after being shot because of blood loss, primarily. The rapid loss of blood pressure causes fainting. Then the arteries collapse as bleeding continues. The heart stops, then the brain cells begin dying.
As a fun side note you can actually keep someone with extreme blood loss alive for a while longer if you can inject some fluid into their circulatory system. Blood, water, coconut milk, etc. Anything for the heart to continue pumping and support the arteries.
You certainly don't need to damage the heart-lung circuit to effect hypovolemic incapacitation, but it's generally the most efficient method within the time table of a gunfight. Since 100% of the blood that comes in through the vena cavas goes out of the aorta, cutting off the pipes in between can be expected to result in a near immediate decrease in aortic flow.
For the most extreme example of this, destroying the aorta basically results in 0 blood delivery, residual inertia and autoregulation aside. This is largely independent of how much blood the body actually loses - you could wait for 1 second or 5 seconds, you could just clamp the aorta shut entirely and there'd be no bleeding at all, either way the heart wouldn't be delivering oxygenated blood to the brain. Compare that to shooting the liver for example where you'd likely have to wait for some degree of systemic volume loss & consequential pressure drop, even if the bleeding is profuse.
The brain cells can live for a while without fresh blood, even consciousness can be maintained for a time, but effective combat capability and general perception & coordination appears to decrease rapidly depending on the level of oxygen perfusion even if the brain sustains no actual damage. For an idea of just how sensitive it is - as I recall, there is an experimentally determinable difference in task performance from split second to split second simply caused by the slightly fluctuating levels of brain oxygenation during the heart's normal cycle. Obviously these effects are imperceptible but when the blood stops flowing in at all, or starts coming in a lot slower, I expect things to go downhill quickly.
Now there is an interesting phenomenon where psychological shock can cause vasodilation in the brain, causing blood to drain and resulting in physiological incapacitation. Dr. Fackler notes an instance where this happened to someone upon a missed shot.
Interesting note about the coconut milk. Very cool.
Yeah
Dang, get that sheriff some .44 magnums
More like a billyclub. Almost all of these suicide by cop situations could be resolved by beating them with a stout piece of wood until they stop resisting and get the cuffs slapped on.
Taking away nightsticks from cops was fricking moronic and the whole reason for cop shootings going up.
Give em billy clubs and institute hard height/fitness/BMI limits, I don't care how many languages officer rosalita speaks.
Wait what the frick? Where are you that they took away batons? I live in a much more "liberal" country than the US, and the cops over here still have them.
cops in the US are still just Black folk with a badge
yuropoor police even in corrupt countries like Italy simply dont interact with public in the same predatory manner
>former Loveland Police Officer Austin Hopp was sentenced to five years in prison as part of a plea agreement to lessen his jail sentence.
Daym dude got 5 years hard time, his butthole is going to be spread open. Reminds me of the other cop vid where they arrested 2 old ladies for trying to capture and release feral cats.
Honestly even a day in prison may as well be capital punishment for a cop, think of how many (colored) people he put away, and how many are waiting to rape him and then splatter his brains all over the shower room floor at the soonest opportunity. Hell, even if he didn't put them away, a cop thrown in feral Black person storage would be seen by most people there as an outlet for their grievances.
Any way to look up his prisoner number, see if he's dead yet?
>The Female officer Daria Jalali was sentenced to 45 days in jail, 36 months probation and 250 hours of community service. She was also sentenced to undergo a mental health evaluation
>Her lawyer argued that a neurological evaluation of Jalali showed she wasn't mentally capable of processing verbal and visual content
lol the Absolute state of police
moron wranglers should be given more leeway honestly.
>Give em billy clubs and institute hard height/fitness/BMI limits, I don't care how many languages officer rosalita speaks.
You need some street monsters sure. But you also need cops who can think, and especially you need cops who can think "inside" the communities they police. It's really, really helpful for example to have a police officer who went to school with mid level drug lieutenants. You just gotta watch 'em like a hawk.
>But you also need cops who can think,
Well we don’t have those either. Some jurisdictions, NYPD being the most notable, put IQ caps on applicants. They don’t want smart people because they ask questions and second guess orders. They specifically target 90IQ types that are smart enough to remember and learn, but not smart enough to think for themselves.
>It's really, really helpful for example to have a police officer who went to school with mid level drug lieutenants.
That’s exactly how you get more corruption dumbass
>But you also need cops who can think
One of the least lamented problems caused by the war on drugs is that the cops are now incapable of working a case, proactively investigating, or even collecting evidence and securing/documenting a crime scene correctly.
ALL they know how to do is play "Who gots da drugs"
>Almost all of these suicide by cop situations could be resolved by beating them with a stout piece of wood
No cop is risking their life if someone resisting arrest pretends to draw a gun.
God I fricking hate twittoids.
Blacks coping because yet another worst of their race chimped out and put themselves into a justifiable shooting situation.
that dudes face would haunt my nightmares for all eternity jesus christ
Man, I can't believe Greg Davies fell off like this.
I would have thought more along the lines of D-grade Gary Busey.
On a serious note, the guy’s life history wasn’t remotely suggestive of this kind of behavior and the limited evidence would suggest he was probably a productive and reasonably well behaved citizen. So, kind of a tragedy, really. Makes one wonder if a brain tumor or some shit was involved.
I love how, if you watch the uncut video, he falls and dies immediately after the video clip here ends. His face wouldn't haunt me because he'd be dead.
>drugs
People always assume drugs in these situations, I've done a lot of drugs and seen a lot of people do drugs, I've never seen any that do this.
Dissociatives (think ketamine, PCP, frick even high doses of Robitussin or nitrous) are how you get zombie-like behavior that completely ignores gunshot wounds that would otherwise incapacitate a person. At that point unless you're hitting the spine or completely destroying the brain or heart, they're not going to stop coming. Maybe if you hit a major blood vessel like the arteries in the legs they'll stop after 20-60 seconds of bleeding out fricking everywhere and their cells running out of oxygen to metabolize for movement. Extreme doses of stimulants by themselves or in combination with alcohol can produce the same effect although for very different reasons, and occasionally you just get someone that's so fricked in the head they're not going to stop trying to hurt themselves or someone else in an attempt to get themselves killed that nothing but destructive overwhelming lethal force aimed at vitals will stop them. The human body is a fickle machine, some people die just walking down the street and conking their head and some people take sixty fricking bullets and can still call you a c**t and piss on you.
>just when you think it's over
>he gets up and keeps walking at the officer
that's pretty scary man
Scream rules. The killer always gets back up for a final jump scare.
I was half-expecting him to jump onto the windshield or something while the cop was making the radio call.
That would've been so fricking good
Or the classic. They're taking him to the morgue and he sits up in the ambulance.
Ambulances don't take dead bodies to the morgue, the coroner has their own vehicle for that.
>the coroner has their own vehicle for that.
In my town, the coroner drives a Prius. EMS transports bodies (dead or alive).
I would say what the cop was using but what the guy was using on himself. Mans was on some hardcore shit.
Should've said that his 6th shot really did him in. Like good lord 6th shot and his body made him realize he's fricked up.
If the shots don't hit the CNS or arteries, the human body can keep going. The officer's first five shots didn't hit vitals, but when the 6th shot hits his heart, you can see a huge amount of blood drain from his chest immediately. That's what stops an attacker.
Yeah that shot was a good clean shot
This. If you can't incapacitate someone via pain response (be it drugs or adrenaline), then massive trauma to the brain, spine or heart is the way to go.
Shot placement needs to be really taught more to soldiers and law enforcement. As of now we have the meme shots on target requirement only, which leads to mag dumps that lead the perp to just either keep on running after stumbling over or being given the chance to hurt more people. There’s alot of webms of uke and russian soldiers mag dumping their targets and the other soldier still being able to get up and run off after taking several dozen rounds of 5.45 or 7.62
Yeah looks like first 5 shots were all in the diaphragm area, he was probably struggling to breath but definitely not down for the count. Was probably gonna die eventually what but the last one put him down immediately
Pumps or switches man, you either hit a switch or wait for their pump to lose volume.
he should have dumped the entire mag
Like every single one of these videos where dumbfrick noguns point out how weak 9mm is, the cop hit nothing critical until the ONE that hit CNS which dropped him instantly. And then after the drug shortened shock got him backup, a single shot to his spine puts him back down instantly.
Cops can't shoot. It's always cops missing every single time regardless of caliber.
>9mmgay preemptively coping
Or did you actually scroll down long enough to find a shitpost to complain about.
It's not coping if the pattern is 100% consistent.
Literally no one but you has even mentioned caliber
>On social media, several friends and family members have expressed their anger over the shooting, saying police were called to help Murphy.
>"There's zero reason for them to shoot him like they did," one woman commented.
>"I'm beyond words right now. Dylan Murphy was an absolute awesome, down to earth guy who wouldn't harm a fly! I will miss you so much bro," one man wrote.
>His sister, Laecie Horn, has now watched that video of her brother’s death several times. “He was a good human. That’s it. He really was a good man, good little brother,” she said.” She said Dylan battled addiction and mental health issues, which is why her other brother KC called police on that night, March 26th.
>The sister continues, “That officer clearly fired another shot with his lights on,” she said. “He shoots another round into my brother who I clearly know at this point from seeing their footage that he was already dead. I wanna know specifically why the officers that I gave all that trust to specifically I didn’t go crazy this whole entire time, I trusted them. I waited for the footage to come out before I made any type of assumptions, and I’ve seen how crazy my brother was but then they doctored stuff.” (This is in relation to a RING camera footage, the two "didn't add up" and she's complaining about discrepancies in the police's accountability)
If only the officer had a .45
> think brother may be suicidal
> surprised when he charges the armed men you requested to pick him up so he can _gasp_ commit suicide
I'm not a total butthole. I understand we don't really have much of an alternative when you need help for someone planning violence to themselves or others. But you cannot act indignant and surprised when the most plausible outcome occurs.
I remember the Ronnie mcnutt suicide video. Someone watching the stream was concerned and call the cops, and they barged in right after he blew his head off. I scratched my head thinking what exactly are cops supposed to do in that situation, had they gotten there in time.. “hey don’t have a nice day, or else... or else we’ll shoot you!”.
Suicidal men are the only truly free people in the world. they’re free of biological imperatives at that point, and can’t be threatened with anything.
Getting the cops involved with a mentally ill suicidal man really is just making the situation worse. Really, there should be some kind of system or protocol where you have professionals *and* police go after someone together so that you have the professionals to talk him down/take him down non-lethally and one or multiple cops just in case more force is needed. Just sending out one or two guys with guns is just gonna give predictable results. And unfortunately, lack of funds on the mental health professional's side often means the cops are the only ones they can send.
>Getting the cops involved with a mentally ill suicidal man really is just making the situation worse. Really, there should be some kind of system or protocol where you have professionals *and* police go after someone together so that you have the professionals to talk him down/take him down non-lethally and one or multiple cops just in case more force is needed. Just sending out one or two guys with guns is just gonna give predictable results. And unfortunately, lack of funds on the mental health professional's side often means the cops are the only ones they can send.
Didn't they try something like this in some communities, where they defunded the police and replaced them with social workers?
Can't tell you from the top of my head if they've implemented it somewhere, but I do remember that it was a major talking point in that discussion. Less MRAPs and "warrior course" stuff and more investment in specialists for specific tasks that a beat cop really doesn't have the skills to solve. And it's a fair point to make I guess, you can't expect cops to be used for everything.
yeah I had a friend who went to a local walmart with his gun just to get into a gunfight with police so he could die kind of moronic to call the police on your brother like this, clearly this b***h knows she fricked up but is trying to shift the blame to the cops
When will morons learn that police are not social services?
>call the state sponsored execution squad to report a person to execute
>they execute the person you reported
>get upset
>Just let the druggie run at you full speed while he's foaming at the mouth bro
How many times are morons going to call cops to get their insane, drug fueled friends and family "help" instead of doing it themselves? This shit happens all the time. Cops are are wienersuckers, they "protect" other people or dangers to themselves. They aren't going to waste time trying to talk down suicidal druggy, especially if they become threatening. They will eliminate the threat. Not pacify, not subdue. Eliminate.
>I wanna know specifically why the officers that I gave all that trust to specifically I didn’t go crazy this whole entire time
>approach a cop with a knife
>get shot
>family goes "wtf there was no reason to do that"
every time
A common pistol cartrige like the 9mm paraplegic, 45 anti coloured people, 357 magwiener or the 40 Onions and W0ke do not match the kinetic energy of a rifle caliber , even something "relatively weak" (in terms of rifle calibers) like a 556 or even 30 carbine, . 9mil has about 400 ish ftlbs , 357 mag has almost 800 from the allmighty buffalo bore pissinhot loads (but that is the high end of energy from available ammo from "who knows" which barrellenght),
A standard 556 round has 1300 ish ftlbs. It is easy to imagine which one can potentially do more tissue damage (in width and lenght) WITH A DECENT PROJECTILE choice.
Also a pistol is much more difficult to accurately and rapidly shoot then a gun with a buttstock.
Here is a Video comparing 9mm fmj, 9mm hollowpoint, and 55 grain 556 ball from a 13.7 inch barrel (supressor is pinned so "not an sbr"). The optimal barrellenght for a 556 semiauto rifle is somewhere around 20 inches which means the 556 could easily be more effective
>45 anti colored people
Only used in brother wars
>40 Onions and Woke
Not onions or onions enough for the modern age.
>357 magwiener
>9mm paraplegic
>muh rifles
Yeah
Here's your (You) Chang
its only game. why you have to be mad?
What is your point?
You have not offered a counterpoint , expanded on the topic, you
Seemingly have not even attempted to be funny either, you only autistically screach
>brother waaar
>muh rifles
What is YOUR point
The only autist is you and that overly defensive moron that I originally replied too. I didnt even shit on 9mm just the gays that get worked up even when no one is seriously shitting on it.
>muh footlbs is a damage meter
44 mag is on average 1100 ftlbs of energy
5.56 from a 10 inch barrel is only 800 ftlbs
it still does way more cavitation and fragmentation than any handgun
You are correct that ft lbs are not generally a good measure of terminal performance, but the comment about .44 magnum versus 5.56 is really more a matter of projectile design he was alluding to.
77 gr TMK out of a 10" barrel for example will likely BTFO out of a hard .44 Magnum JSP (and certainly an FMJ) out of a 4" barrel. However, Buffalo Bore's 240 gr Deer Grenade (their loading of a Lyman Devastator cast HP, I suspect) out of a 4" .44 will very likely beat a 55 gr TSX out of a 10" 5.56.
And on that note, I suspect TSX out of a 10" 5.56 often produces flexible tissue damage inferior to or at least not noticeably surpassing a 230 gr +P HST. If you can incapacitate people immediately with the former then you can also do it with the latter, provided you aim well enough. One should not be allergic to shooting multiple times with either.
Rifle bullets don't have magical qualities allow them to circumvent the incapacitation processes that handgun rounds must use. Either way you must disable the CNS or inflict sufficient damage to the circulatory system. Now the TSX in our example inflicts that damage somewhat differently, through a combination of temporary cavitation and direct crush rather than direct crush alone. But if the total wound volume is the same then I doubt it makes any difference. (Actually, I suspect the handgun round may be slightly more efficient as it's more likely to shunt/push destroyed tissue out of the way and the sharp cutting edges may result in more bleeding at the margins of the wound, whereas the tissue pulped by a rifle round's TSC might be more likely to stay in place and inhibit bleeding a little.)
The rifle round's large TSC does give it an advantage when striking inflexible organs like the liver, or temporarily concussing the CNS on a near miss, but the former (as alluded to in my previous comment) is likely a slower method of incapacitation and the latter is largely unreliable and basically just dumb luck.
Pistols suck because of the short barrels and limited powder. Naturally a fricking short barrel rifle will be less effective than it's longer counterpart.
I guess I should have assumed some autistic moron, this is /k/ after all and we're all autistic and moronic, would bring up pistol ARs to try and twist it into them being right, even though most patrol rifles are 16" in length.
You were referring to a 10” barrel 5.56 and a .44 Magnum with “1100 ft lbs energy” were you not? That’s literally your words, you brought it up.
Or are you the second person? In which case, you stated no stipulation that the rifle *had* to be a full 16”. Plenty of people, including LEOs, have SBRs. Is it your position that these can’t incapacitate people effectively?
I’ll say though, frankly I was probably being generous to the .223 10” rifle in that comparison, because I don’t know that even TSX out of a 16” rifle produces vastly greater flexible tissue wounding than a 230 gr +P HST out of a 5” barrel. But say the rifle were 50% more effective per shot and you had to shoot someone twice, that’d mean you’d have to shoot 3 times with the pistol given equal shot placement - not enough to turn an immediate incapacitation into a not immediate incapacitation.
>You were referring to a 10” barrel 5.56 and a .44 Magnum with “1100 ft lbs energy” were you not?
Nope, and I wasn't even replying to that chain of comments.
Ok then, enjoy getting pissy at random people. But then again I guess that’s also expected of /k/.
Imagine willfully taking shit out of context to prove a point and then getting butthurt when someone gets calls out such moronic behavior.
>a 10” SBR isn’t a rifle in this context despite being commonly used?
>only fragmenting rounds from 16” rifles and above count despite .223 TSX being commonly used ?
No shit, a 16” rifle can do more damage than a 10” rifle. Did you need to butt in for that? I’m seeing a lot less point to your comments really.
You brought up 10" rifles when 16" is common for patrol rifles moron.
Black person, I didn't butt in anywhere, I replied to OP.
Go be mad somewhere else, idiot.
>only patrol rifles count
>even though I didn’t specifically outline patrol rifles
>even though even a 16” rifle probably still wouldn’t have drastically better performance with some rounds
I really don’t know what you are going on about.
OP's video is a police shooting, so their patrol long gun is either a 16" AR or a shotgun.
And a 16" patrol rifle would have drastically better performance over a pistol and more performance over a 10.5" or less rifle.
Keep grasping harder homosexual.
The person I responded to did not clearly frame his comments specifically in the context of patrol officer shootings. Apparently you’re just doing that in retrospect so you can find something to be angry at.
As I have already pointed out, I am not convinced that certain rounds out of even a 5.56 16” rifle would perform vastly better than certain handgun rounds, to the point where one is a non-immediate stop and the other is an immediate stop given good shot placement. If you want some wound profiles I’ll scrounge them up.
Now what else do you have to seethe about?
With the patrol rifle you would have 30 rounds to dump instead of 10 or 15 or whatever. Still an improvement.
That was all me except for
I literally was initially responding to OP where the topic was the cop's caliber choice, and I said that pistol calibers suck.
Then you jumped in being a moron.
Again you did not exclusively contextualize your statements to relate to patrol rifles only. I can’t be expected to read your fricking mind when you made such a generalized claim.
I also pointed out that even if we did assume the such, you’d probably still be wrong because the gulf between some common rounds out of a 16” rifle and some handgun rounds is not so great that we’d expect one to be an immediate stop and the other to not.
Do you have anything else to play on your record?
You didn't need to read my mind, you can read the context, moron.
>I also pointed out that even if we did assume the such, you’d probably still be wrong because the gulf between some common rounds out of a 16” rifle and some handgun rounds is not so great that we’d expect one to be an immediate stop and the other to not.
Wrong, 5.56 rifle cartridges out of a 16" barrel will far exceed the effectiveness of a pistol cartridge.
Kyle Rittenhouse's rifle was 16" and loaded with regular 55 gr FMJ ammo, a single shot decimated that one gay's bicep, and another single shot to the torso flat lined the skaterboy in seconds, and 4 shots took out the charging sex hungry pedo.
Have a patrol rifle with proper 75 gr TAP or SOST, and either one will also perform far better than a pistol cartridge.
>since the OP posted a police shooting, my generalized comment in a thread about bullets must be about patrol rifles only and you are a moron if you can’t infer this
Ok buddy.
>Kyle Rittenhouse's rifle was 16" and loaded with regular 55 gr FMJ ammo
And here’s what you don’t understand. 55 gr FMJ is not the least devastating 5.56 bullet around, even in a weak Aguila .223 loading. Monolithic copper HPs in particular appear to be less damaging.
These are common choices in patrol officer roles because they are 1) much more consistent than yaw-dependent FMJs and OTMs and 2) are more barrier blind which matters for shooting through a car that traffic cops might, you know, have to work around.
The attached picture is an artistic depiction of the permanent (of primary relevance) and temporary cavity of lead-bonded 62 gr TBBC in its common LE223T3 loading. I suspect it is underselling the bullet, but at the same time, I expect several .223 TSX and perhaps GMX loadings to be potentially less damaging than 62 gr TBBC. 230 gr HST +P would expand to a maximum diameter of about 2.5 cm for reference - notice how close that is to the width of the .223 permanent cavity in the artist’s impression?
You are also making the assumption that the aforementioned 230 gr HST +P wouldn’t have likewise felled skater boi (shot through heart and lung - I can post a video where incapacitation results were very similar with a handgun round) and pedobear (lung, liver, pelvis, graze) without drastically more effort. We simply cannot say this due to the uncertainty of speculating about events that never happened. The only shot where I would be reasonably sure of a drastic difference is the arm hit due to the exacerbation of TSC damage when hitting a small mass of flesh, and hopefully you are not gauging bullet effectiveness based on extremity hits - even though I myself will acknowledge that 55 gr FMJ is much more devastating than 230 gr HST when it actually works properly.
This photo displays the primary exit wound of a 55 gr TSX at 5.56 pressure 16” velocity impacting a deer from 65 yards away (roughly, perhaps, mimicking a .223 pressure loading at the muzzle), as well as secondary wound channels from bone fragments. Since bone fragment damage is circumstantial and speculative, the primary bullet wound is of more interest.
Consider that the heart is about 5” tall for scale and that the aforementioned 230 gr HST +P expands to about an inch from petal to petal. (The average diameter, used for calculating wound volume, is different, but the maximum petal-to-petal diameter is more useful for getting an idea of wound diameter). Hopefully one is astute enough to realize that even if the .223 TSX round might be better here - and that is not a sure thing - the difference is not night and day.
The entrance wound into the lungs, BTW, is even smaller.
And here are the ribcage entrance and exit wounds. Curiously enough, the exit from the ribcage was smaller in this case, despite the lung exit being larger.
The ribcage is one area (albeit largely irrelevant for incapacitation purposes) where I might expect the .223 round to make a much larger hole than the pistol round, since the intercostal muscle is a small mass confined by the ribs and perhaps more vulnerable to TSC damage, yet that appears to not be the case here.
Note though that despite the slightly underwhelming nature of the wound, the hunter still reported that it was more or less effective.
also [dismissive wanking gesture]
It’s funny, because not all those comments were even made by the same person.
But it doesn’t surprise me that you spend your time being a condescending dick. Let me guess, a beat cop too, that’s why you can’t view anything outside the perspective of muh patrol. But perhaps I repeat myself.
>It’s funny, because not all those comments were even made by the same person.
x
Patrol is the context moron because OP was talking about police, you jumped in like the moron you are and went off on a moronic tangent, and you've been doubling down on being a moron this whole time.
>no argument
dumb shit
[dismissive wanking gesture]
>because I don’t know that even TSX out of a 16” rifle produces vastly greater flexible tissue wounding than a 230 gr +P HST out of a 5” barrel.
It does and you can see for yourself. Look at gel tests. If you don’t believe gel, look at deer and hog hunting results. Tons of people have shot hogs with rifles and pistols. There is a clear difference between .223 and handguns
Mate I literally just posted deer hunting results.
There is, as a general rule, far more difference within calibers than between calibers. What one .223 loading does is not necessarily indicative of what another does. 77 gr 5.56 TMK for example is vastly more destructive than any service caliber handgun round but that doesn’t matter if you don’t actually have 77 gr TMK in your rifle.
You’re also the wrong person to be talking to about gel. I’ve literally worked with organic ballistic gelatin, I’ve shot it with 5.56 rounds and handgun rounds in real life. Gel is very useful for measuring things like penetration, neck length, fragmentation and expansion but it does not simulate the real life permanent wound cavity. It does simulate the temporary cavity pretty well but any guess at exactly how much of it translates into permanent damage is a guess and can’t be precisely determined without actually firing it into living tissue.
Yeah my bad. I didn’t read through the whole thread before responding to that one. Good effort posts
Many thanks. I always appreciate it when people are willing to consider my writings and keep an open mind.
Terminal ballistics requires a lot more nuance than is commonly thought and requires the slaying of some sacred cows and commonly held perceptions. 5.56 is a particularly good example of the need to differentiate between the cartridge and the loading. Many people form their perceptions of it - negative or positive - on just one bullet, when there’s way more depth to it. You can have some rounds that are awful (brass solids, GP90) and some that likely outperform many .308 rounds on flesh damage (aforementioned 77 gr TMK) and everything in between. Most of them outperform any service caliber handgun JHP by a very sizable margin, but that’s not universally true.
Personally I like 5.56 a lot, it’s in fact the only rifle caliber I own, partially because the best stuff is so devastating that I just don’t think I have any need to go beyond that for most applications, it’s wasted damage in most situations. But it’s loading dependent; and although I’d much rather use my 16” rifle, I won’t claim a 9mm handgun won’t generally get the job done rapidly with good aim and good bullets, even if it takes quite a few more shots and skill on average.
Speaking of .308, the most damaging .308 rounds are considerably more damaging than the most devastating 5.56 in turn. But some standard varieties of .308 FMJ are actually worse than 5.56 FMJ, because they don’t fragment. Others do and then it’s more like M193 scaled up. Then you have funny calibers like 7.62x39 where the FMJ is mostly just worse and the jury’s still out on the heavily fragmenting loadings, but if you compare bonded or tougher softpoints, it’s better than 5.56 terminally.
>Many people form their perceptions of it - negative or positive - on just one bullet, when there’s way more depth to it.
This is very true. Especially in common rifle bullets (.223, .30 cal, 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, etc) where there is such a variety of options. 35gr vmax will leave a nasty hole but probably won’t get too far into a torso. 62gr green tip is likely to just sail through if velocity isn’t high (most likely at least). And like you said 77gr TMKs are phenomenal but not the average performance.
Also I liked your pictures. Hunting results aren’t everything but they give a lot of good, real world data.
>Rifle bullets don't have magical qualities allow them to circumvent the incapacitation processes that handgun rounds must use
Well, that depends of whether we believe hydrostatic shock is real or not; The idea that a powerful bullet can cause brain haemorrhages and other injuries separate from the main wound via pressure waves in the blood.
This idea basically isn’t treated as fact (or generally all that credible) among almost anybody in established wound ballistics circles besides Messrs. Courtney and Courtney who keep shilling it over and over again to random medical journals (which often have shockingly low standards due to a general ignorance of terminal ballistics) and wikipedia editors. Several names in wound ballistics happen to be highly critical of that theory after reviewing the Courtneys’ work, in fact.
For my part I don’t know that it’s impossible but I also doubt it would be a common factor in any kind of round where the localized tissue damage alone would not be enough to produce incapacitation.
Let's get back to the point of the thread which is cops cannot shoot for shit and are pussies. (I mean terminal ballistics sorry)
>point of the thread which is cops cannot shoot for shit and are pussies
That should be the real point of this thread yes. In all likelihood, the LEO’s marksmanship failures are being attributed to things like terminal ballistics.
>Rifle bullets don't have magical qualities allow them to circumvent the incapacitation processes that handgun rounds must use.
It’s not magic. The extra velocity stretches tissue beyond its elastic limit
Yes I realize that and allude to it. The temporary cavitation damage (that is the stretch you are talking about) is not unlimited and still only works towards the overall permanent wound volume. If a rifle round’s combined temporary cavitation damage and crush cavity is roughly comparable to a handgun round’s crush cavity then I expect the 2 to have relatively comparable effectiveness in turn, because the rifle round still must incapacitate through the same mechanisms.
Damn, if only there was some sort of solution to mediocre shot placement. If only modern technology could provide us with some sort of mechanism to increase volume of fire or assist with aiming.
Does anyone make tracers for 4.6×30mm?
>Dylan Murphy
Around Irish, never relax
I always used to think the old resident evil games were unrealistic to how much damage a zombie could take from 9mm until seeing tweaker footage like this.
>Sign in to confirm age
Youtube, me signing up with an email and saying I'm 69 is no different from me just saying I'm 69. Stop trying to make me sign up just to artificially inflate your user statistics during the quarterly report.
Just type nsfw in front of youtube
That’s pretty normal tbh. Almost every police shooting video I see, the cops are magdumping. When they have rifles though, it’s usually one or two shots.
Also, the guy behaves and sounds as though he’s on drugs, so if that first burst of shots hit him, it could explain why he didn’t go down. It’s that or the cop missed entirely.
Can you really be executed for the crime of walking toward a cop unarmed? What socialist police state is this from?
lmao.
In China, people argue with the cops all the damn time. It's normal. Even if things get violent, nobody is executed in the street. (And, in fact, nobody at all would be executed for the crime of assaulting a cop.)
In the USA, you had better behave VERY carefully around Cops. Or they'll just murder you on the spot.
"Land of the free."
It’s the natural result of the police facing no-consequences
Why shouldn’t a cop just murder somebody because she’s being annoying? There’s no consequences for doing so. Just claim you feared for your life and you’ll get off Scott free
yea if police didn't have qualified immunity they would be opened up to a whole new level of scrutiny both civil and criminally.
unless youre black. how dare you then.
If you continue to do so with a gun pointed at you? Yes. It's reasoned that a reasonable person will back the frick off if you point a gun at them and tell them to stop. If they don't stop, something's wrong with them, and if they keep coming you're allowed to shoot.
shut up you samegayging chink
Now imagine the perp wearing class IVs. Dick plate under the navel class IV helmet, side plates. Front and back plates. Imagine how much longer he could have lasted.
At that point the new "center of mass" becomes the face/neck. At that point you must hit the apricot.
Perp becomes unstoppable when wearing a diamond age faceplate.
People who do this much drugs would just sell the plates right away for more dope and they suck at sustained cardio.
so having to shoot someone 7 times in a row to kill them in resident evil 4 remake is actually realistic interesting
I think you don't realize how ineffective pistols are
That’s why you carry a .45 yeup
Despite what you've seen in movies the 12 or so years you've been alive bullets aren't magic off switches
You've obviously never worked as an EMT in Detroit. Druggies taking 5-10 rounds to go down because they are so blasted on drugs that their bodies do not register pain are very much a real thing and unsettling as frick the first few times you see it happen.
I work in house security at a Healthcare system. We have to fight people like this. I have released my dog on two separate occasions and they guys absorbed the bite, still got taken down by the dogs weight/inertia, and gone on to fight 3-4 of us on the ground with the dog still on their arm.
They don't respond to pain compliance, have no fear, and do not gas out. Working at a hospital is fricked because handcuffs aren't considered a medical restraint and we have to fight them until we get them on a bed and into hard restraints. Fentanyl/meth or heroin/meth make these monsters. The medications like b52s etc don't work. I've seen them get hit with presidex (sp?) and still keep fighting the meds as they're being intubated. We have k9 and tactical teams where I work and the shit I've seen is insane. I couldn't imagine running into one of these mf'ers on the street, alone, with a broken radio and back up miles away.
How does it get decided whether to start off with nonlethal or go straight to lethal? Is it officer discretion?
Also that panicked shuffle at 2:07 when he debates if he's dealing with a zombie outbreak lmao
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2023/04/15/sandy-police-officer-fired/
>we do not train our officers to use less than lethal mitigation when they’re alone
It's a big dude.
Big size, determination, and drugs can make someone power through getting a chest full of pistol cartridges.
9mm or 10mm, you'd need a CNS shot, rifle or shotgun cartridge to take someone down near immediately.
This officer should have done the Djibouti Shooti the first time he got up.
In burger land you can shoot someone just for having hands in their pocket?
Also that last shot was an execution. His hands were visible.
>What kind of dogshit is the cop using?
A handgun.
I remember a video where this guy is behind a tree with a rifle with cops in the streets. Cops shoot the guys head and you can see the cap of the skull fly off, but he still stands with the rifle in his hands for maybe a minute before collapsing. Drugs are a helluva drug.
55gr TTSX from November. 22gr of IMR 3031. Savage Axis 2.
Shot high rear of lungs, not much damage at all to the meat. Lungs were exploded. Deer dropped dead on the spot.
Collapsed/deflated lungs are likely to appear goopy, and hemothorax/pneumothorax/hemopneumothorax are likely to occur to at least some extent after the lungs are shot. I suspect this is often conflated with local lung destruction, but it is not necessarily indicative of the broadness of permanent wounding at the time of the shot.
Lung tissue is regarded within the current terminal ballistics knowledge bank as highly resistant to TSC stretching, similar to muscle. In lung tissue’s case, perhaps more so, as its elasticity is similar but its density is much lower (though that same reduced density might also allow an equivalent impulse to propel it faster, so I couldn’t say for certain).
Here, another photo of 55 gr TSX damage at longer range in a more intact piece of lungs. Lack of clear scale or margins of the wound channel, although the grass might provide some clues to the former, but it can be seen that it’s not exactly awe-inspiring.
>all these videos of people taking multiple hand gun or rifle shots and them not dropping until something critical is hit and people STILL claim MPs use shotguns for no reason other than "moronation," or "riot control," even though they use them in situations where they only have live ammo.
They use them because situations where unarmed people are rushing you and willing to risk being shot to help the group overwhelm you it's the best one shot drop you can get.
>Inb4 capacity
That's why you have both and a team for prisoner control, but some people have to get close to them.
Pistols and patrol carbines are fantastic but man the standard 12 guage needs a comeback.
There was a 1990s joint forces study showing a decent accuracy advantage for shotguns over a three round assault rifle burst in close quarters, but I think the proliferation of body armor has made that advantage irrelevant. The FA burst is the main comparison because at close distances an automatic burst improves chance to hit with rifles and SMGs.
That said, we will still always have them for military law enforcement roles and for breeching, since people tend to complain about underbarrel shotguns and prefer just carrying the extra weapon.
Maybe in the far future, when coil guns can up the velocity significantly, we'll see military shotguns coming back in the scene, but that seems a long way away since right now coil guns can only compete with high powered BB guns. I figure at some point before 2100 though they will probably get there, the interest is there because the upper limit on velocity appears to have much further to go; plus they are quiet and have far lighter ammunition.
>Cop equipment has become increasingly more militarized for years
>But their training is still the bare minimum
Could any minority share a link or webm to watch the video