But also yes, i assume you mean a service rifle as the government should have already given you a .22 when you joined the Boy Scouts/Young Pioneers/ Peoples Youth Guard when you were 12.
Oh no, we're just going to bomb all of you. Perhaps hold a vote on who we bomb continuously for the next month straight (televised).
America should be so isolationist that it's the only place left on Earth. The rest of you can live in bombed-out ruins with your tribes praying to the sky gods that they don't fart JDAMs all over you again.
No. They should have the opportunity to acquire a free gun if they want, but it shouldn’t be forced on them.
>ITT: /k/ doesn't know what the definition of a militia is since the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, National Guard act or the latest Defense Appropriations bill.
Before the National Guard act it was illegal for a persons weapon to be confiscated for debt and if they didn't have one the government was required to provide one and regulate them appearing at monthly drills until such time as they could provide one of their own. Weapons ownership and militia membership used to be mandatory for voters and even non voters/residents, it still should be.
I know what the militia is.
All I’m saying is that, just like the freedom of religion also means freedom of not being religious, the right to bear arms means the right to not be forced to bear arms. The draft is unconstitutional and immoral.
nta but get fricked if you're in your 20s you're functionally moronic and should listen to your elders when they speak. you don't have to agree with what they say but if age has value then you're pretty entry level until you're in your 30s if you're a male.
In a lot of states, 15 isn't enough for a living wage. In my state I could make 50k a year and have to choose between paying rent and being able to support a family of four. You need to make like 80k a year to be able to comfortably survive and support a family these days.
Then go to trade school/technical college or university and get a 'real job'.
The only people who should realistically be working minimum wage jobs are high school students, university students, those who've fallen on hard times/rebuilding their lives and need cash quickly, or old timers.
Stop this meme of pretending like minimum wage work is supposed to provide you with a life, it isn't.
In 1950, the minimum wage for one man was able to provide for an entire family. Today it can't provide for a single person.
It very much is supposed to provide you with a living wage, the idea of an economy that relies on, in your own words, kids, transients, and the old, is unstable and doomed to collapse in on itself.
>the idea of an economy that relies on, in your own words, kids, transients, and the old, is unstable and doomed to collapse in on itself.
Society absolutely does not depend upon those who take your order at a fast food place. There are certainly other lines of far more important work that can be underpaid when starting off, like certain construction peons, but generally minimum wage workers aren't exactly "essential". I go to mcds today, you don't even order at the counter, everything is done from a tablet screen they've set up in the shop.
1950 was a long time ago and the circumstances are far different today, whatever used to be status quo was frankly a complete anomaly (minus family values, there's obvious reasons why that is being dismantled).
As it happens, minimum wage work is often of un-importance. Electricians, welders, engineers, physicists, so on and so forth, are far more intrinsically valuable than entirely unskilled workers (not even labourers). Literally anyone can stock shelves at CVS, like high school kids who'd like some pocket money... but Joe Schmo off the street isn't qualified as a PE to rubber stamp civil eng plans on a local bridge development. Those are the people that society actually depends upon to make sure the infrastructure we use on a daily basis is usable and reliable.
1 month ago
Anonymous
And who is we?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Everyone who has posted in this thread thus far. Are unskilled, minimum wage IT employees preforming maintenance on and keeping Cloudflare servers online right now? Certainly not.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Are unskilled, minimum wage IT employees preforming maintenance on and keeping Cloudflare servers online right now?
Given most tech jobs are done by poorly paid third worlders? Yes. A lot of software, animation and all that shit gets outsourced to India, Korea and the Philippines where they make less than minimum wage to do that stuff. The high skill IT guys in the states just set up the infrastructure and fix somethings, but day to day operation is handled primarily by low skill workers paid poorly.
For example, I've just finished classes to become an EMT; and I can expect anywhere between 18 and 21 dollars an hour starting pay. Granted once I work my way up to Paramedic, I'll be making a lot more money; but a good chunk of the system is working off people like me who aren't gonna make huge dollars despite objectively being an important service in society.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>...most tech jobs are done by poorly paid third worlders?
Poorly paid by whose standard? They sure as shit aren't receiving an American or Canadian minimum wage, that's why firms outsource in the first place. However, depending on the job, it could be perfectly fine, if not incredibly decent, for India/Thailand/Singapore/Eastern Europe/etc.
10 dollars USD/hour is slavery in the US, whereas it's to a Serbian codemonkey, it's pretty damn good.
Can't speak for EMTs, sorry to hear about that. Though keep in mind that 21 dollars, which is the maximum expected value you provided, is well above minimum wage. Keep in mind that here in Canada, a motivated individual could rake in a shit ton of cash over the summer working wildfire with a similar (***nominal***) wage-range as you. Sure, they're not paying for accommodations, but if they had to, they absolutely could with quite a bit to spare. These guys work a lot of overtime as well, I imagine EMTs do too, while providing a broadly similar service, insofar as 'saving people' goes. Wildfires in Alberta are ruthless.
With that being said, I am a bit surprised your maximum expectation isn't somewhere around $25/hr. Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
1 month ago
Anonymous
21 is definitely well above minimum wage, since that hasn't move since 2007; but over here it's not great. Living entirely on my own (and with the actual hours I'd get accounting for all the overtime I'd probably have) I'd be looking at probably closer to 60kish a year or something, and that'd be totally fine to live on my own; but having a family and supporting it on that salary is out of the question entirely. There'd need to be a second income to pay for the housing, food and all the other bills that come with children on that pay.
>I'm a bit surprised your maximum expectation isn't 25/hr
This is mostly based on a little bit of "average pay" research I've done; so it's definitely not accurate. But 25/hr is definitely on the high end for average EMT pay, as a completely fresh EMT I could probably expect 21-23/hr.
Note this all assumes the lowest level of EMT provider, there's three (four in my state) national levels in the US which naturally come with more pay and more responsibility. At the highest level (Paramedic) I believe the average pay came out to 31 an hour.
>Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
That's the neat part, because they're mostly private they try to wring you dry when it comes to pay. All my instructors (and higher level EMTs) told me lowest paying jobs in the industry are private ambulance companies where the pay can go as low as 18 an hour, the actually good money comes from working with a fire department or something like that.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
Burgerstan hospitals are under neverending siege from bureaucratic vampires trying to file lawsuits because of malpractice or because somebody found out their neighbor had AIDS. To combat this the hospitals employ their own army of bureaucratic vampires to ensure everything is done *just so*. As you can imagine this leaves little money for paying the people who actually provide medical care.
I never said anything to the validity of the standard. As you've pointed out, it's nonsensical, or at least very poorly/arbitrarily and un-rigorously defined.
Although insofar as housing itself is concerned, you don't need to be "rich" to own a decent suburban home either. Obviously, it depends on the particular municipality/township, the particular neighborhood, etc. For example you're shit out of luck in NYC, LA is pretty bad generally. Though it's certainly still attainable.
>As a property owner I feel it is absurd that people that don't own property can vote to raise my property tax.
they don't vote for that. they vote for congressmen who do that, and the congressmen certainly own more property than you do, so it's fine for them to step on your face.
no. it would be expensive and just because its a constitutional right doesnt mean that people have to exercise it. More than half of voters actually turn up at the polls and idiots talk to police officers when they have no obligation to
No. We should all be given a Traditions musket kit and expected to create our first firearm.
We must then procure powder and ball and shoot some invasive species like a razorback or a mexican or something.
Then we should be given a coupon for $100 off our first rifle.
Seriously? It's an idea that could be workshopped. I was on a rifle team at the age of 12 going into high school. The school was forced to dissolve its rifle team after my first year, and I've always felt that was a massive mistake. It should be mandatory to take a rifle class for your freshman year, which would include a strong weapons safety training & certification program.
Issuing a firearm to citizens with no other "issues" could be a part (perhaps an optional part) of such a program.
> which would include a strong weapons safety training & certification program.
Completely pointless because you can’t train people to not be moronic. ESPECIALLY teenagers
In fact, there should be no training courses for driving a car or truck or train or plane ... no training courses for anything at all. Who needs a certified plumber? They're all moronic anyway. Or welder, or machinist. Let's do away with all certifications and licenses. Might as well eliminate university degrees and high school diploma's. Everyone's too moronic for any of that to make any difference at all. Completely pointless.
Example: Nobody needs a license or certificate or training of any sort to post on 4chiinz. Completely pointless. Everyone's too moronic.
Who gave license to the government to license other people? Do you have a license for your opinion? How do we know you are qualified to talk here if you don't have a license in talking? I don't mind licensing, its the fact that you personally have to pay for the licensing that makes me not like it. Not him.
Unfortunately a large portion of Americans are now diagnosed with a mental illness and on psychiatric medication which precludes the legal purchase of a firearm.
IIRC the number of women on psychiatric medication (this includes anti-depressants) is around 30%.
Further recreational drug use of relatively non-addictive and non-harmful drugs like marijuana, lsd and other psychedelics, etc. means that the vast majority of the population is technically ineligible to purchase a firearm under certain interpretations of current firearms laws. See the Hunter Biden case. I think if they wanted to frick you over bad enough they could attempt to apply the addiction clause to anyone who uses marijuana on a yearly basis, it should be more specific.
Further even sharing marijuana with your significant other can be interpreted by DAs as being a drug dealer, see the fpsrussia case.
These are all problematic laws and should be amended to be more specific and fit with our current ideals.
I think this would be a good idea if we had compulsory military training, but it seems like this only works in low crime ethnically homogenous countries that are at more risk of foreign invasion than local psychos. The USA is no longer that.
Further having an imperialist military is not inherently bad, but we shouldn't force anyone to participate in an imperialist war even if it's overall good for the nation. (I don't believe Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were necessarily in our interest, but things like WW1 could be interpreted as foreign intervention since we were at very little risk of an attack on US soil)
Doesn't work when I get outvoted 10 to 1 by freedom hating morons. The representative for my area has been the representative longer than I've been alive.
Reading your comments, I'm convinced that you are one of those people who shouldn't be allowed to vote. You're too stupid and malinformed to participate in these sorts of conversations.
>Reading your comments, I'm convinced that you are one of those people who shouldn't be allowed to vote. You're too stupid and malinformed to participate in these sorts of conversations.
yes but you have mandatory mil. service before you get it for 3 months and then twice a year, during a public holiday report to your millitia unit to train.
A gun is a duty not a right, just as the founding fathers meant when they copied the Swiss model.
>every citizen
No, because not every citizen is made equally as you can clearly see
115 IQ and above gets a free 9mm in case they ever want to commit suicide
>Set up nationalised companies designed to build large quantities of 7.62mm battle rifles and .45 pistols and ammunition. >To be sold to citizens at cost. >Require every taxpayer to choose between owning at least one such rifle, one such pistol, and at least 1000 rounds for both of them, and register for service in a locally organised militia - or pay 50% extra tax as the 'Coward Charge'. >Nobody should be forced to serve against his will, but it's only reasonable for people who don't want to serve to provide something to mitigate the damage their hesitance might do to the country. >Delegate the bulk of local law-enforcement to these militia. >Over the course of about a decade or two devolve defensive duties of the armed forces to the militia too. >Refit the army entirely for expeditionary work, pay retired servicemen to train militia groups once they get home. >Over time the militia will probably figure out how to provide their own anti-tank/anti-air kit and tactics - make sure the government does nothing to stop/slow this process down.
This only works in a country with very little ethnicities, you can't do that and not expect to collapse into Hispanic, Black person and other micro states.
>you can't do that and not expect to collapse into Hispanic, Black person and other micro states.
Why would that be a problem? Worst case scenario the other microstates can then reconquer the fallen areas and re-establish law and order there.
Yes, but since it doesn't, the people should develop homebrew enterprises and make their own firearms, ammo and food and fuel again. The people should be less reliant upon any centralized organization, corporation or government entity.
Now would be the time. As the M4 is phased out of active duty service, every able bodied male between the age of 18-45 should be issued one as they become available.
no, much as I love firearms and accessibility to them one must still recognize that there are tons of people in the world who shouldn't have any access to them at all, I wouldn't even trust them with a fricking butter knife
>6 months manditory service at 18 >have to pass psyc to get in >take service rifle home with you after service
This is the perfect way to defend any nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
good but it could be better. >6 months of training/service at the end of highschool >one of the classes is making a musket, learning woodworking and machining at a basic level >do community service within the 6 month service window >get to keep musket >offered psyc in order to get proper rifle >offered service contract if you don't wanna go to college >allowed to enter private sector with basic job experience and a connection to your community from doing service works
>6 months manditory service at 18 >have to pass psyc to get in >take service rifle home with you after service
This is the perfect way to defend any nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
it isn't about giving up rights but about entering a social contract with the state.
We will defend it and they will make the state work for the average man, if they don't those average men are armed and trained.
>what is the government supposed to do with like 40 million cadets?
So 40 million people turn 18 every 6 months?
1 month ago
Anonymous
it was a rough guess, even 4 million free laborers injected into the workforce is insane.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>free laborers injected into the workforce
What are you talking about, I'm talking about manditory service for 6 months. >turn 18 >do basic training >get given assault rifle to take home
1 month ago
Anonymous
you also said >do community service within the 6 month service window
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nah that was a guy responding to me.
As for that I actually think it's a decent idea but as a 1 day a week thing, they could maintain parks, plant trees, clean streets ect. It's another layer of trying to get people reinvested in their local community.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Problem.
Where the frick are you going to find millions of low-skill, temporary government jobs?
1 month ago
Anonymous
See
Nah that was a guy responding to me.
As for that I actually think it's a decent idea but as a 1 day a week thing, they could maintain parks, plant trees, clean streets ect. It's another layer of trying to get people reinvested in their local community.
It isn't a jobs program just an attempt to stop the disconnection between people and their nation. >but that kills contractors doing that
Yep, don't care, saves tax dollars and gets people invested in the community. The drive for maximum profit is why people don't have real communities anymore.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Buddy, I don’t know how to tell you this, but…
An eighteen year old isn’t going to give a frick about their community just because you made them pick up trash once a week for a couple months
1 month ago
Anonymous
I know it's not a magic fix but if they install swings at their old school it gives them some connection to the place even if they don't care at the time.
I started my electrical apprenticeship at 18 and at the time each job was just a job but now at 40 I can drive around my state and see things I helped build from schools and hospitals to office towers and factories.
I think for at least some of them seeing kids play in the park they built will mean something later.
1 month ago
Anonymous
> I think for at least some of them seeing kids play in the park they built will mean something later
It will. For people that were already predisposed to community.
For people that aren’t, read as: the people that cause problems, it would mean precisely jack and shit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I'm sure kids will be ecstatic to build mansions for boomers, just like in Russia.
Nta
1 month ago
Anonymous
>building things for the community means building houses for boomers
What it wrong with you anon? I get the boomer hate but you can make the world a better place instead of being cynical about everything.
1 month ago
Anonymous
See [...]
It isn't a jobs program just an attempt to stop the disconnection between people and their nation. >but that kills contractors doing that
Yep, don't care, saves tax dollars and gets people invested in the community. The drive for maximum profit is why people don't have real communities anymore.
my school had something similar whee you where expected to do at least two hundred hours of community service in you last years
which considering we where a school full of snobby rich kids was a major shock for a lot of the kids that they had to go out and help people that weren't as well off as them
kind of strange to see a kid you know has a private jet at home serve the homeless in a soup kitchen
good but it could be better. >6 months of training/service at the end of highschool >one of the classes is making a musket, learning woodworking and machining at a basic level >do community service within the 6 month service window >get to keep musket >offered psyc in order to get proper rifle >offered service contract if you don't wanna go to college >allowed to enter private sector with basic job experience and a connection to your community from doing service works
>you must hecking get your service hours chud!!
Shut the frick up and go fire whatever moronic “school board” staff member came up with that bullshit. Companies just know that schools force it and don’t really care, they’re not going to hire you because you slaved 8 hours feeding slop to homeless people. I had to deal with bullshit like that cutting my mark by 20% in my PE class regardless of athletic performance in highschool cause they expect kids to go out and pay fare/transport fees to and from fricking soup kitchens or whatever shit your volunteering at or that your parents have enough time to care about that shit and ferry you back/forth for a few days. >inb4 but it shows that they want to work for free!
most volunteers put in the bare minimum work then gtfo when they can, the people who try to have a fetishistic “I care about hecking people so im good and can’t be wrong!” are a minority and probably have trauma in their life that causes the wicked attachment to being overly emotional and homosexualistic.
Volunteering and Charity are fricking cancer on the world, volunteering is just forcing people to work for negligible benefit cause some moronic school board staff member thinks it’ll “make the Hecking world a better place” or whatever fetishism he has. And golly color me surprised when you force people to work you get a shitty amount of effort put in, especially by children who need to study for better shit anyway than spend time volunqueering. As for charity, most of the major organizations are just pure cancer where the higher ups just say they’re “taking administration fees” for all the “hard work” they’re doing managing it and it ends up just being a large chunk of the total money raised by normies trying to fill the void of “nooo I’m not a hecking good innocent person” and having to virtue signal constantly or dump money at charities to feel better.
cont.
1 month ago
Anonymous
cont.
If you want an eye opener at charity and “volunteer work” go look at overseas operations that take rich young adults into Africa and other turd world countries.
Often the money is pocketed, embezzled, and sent to a few people. As for donations involving things like toys for “le hecking poor African children” they get locked in a closet or stowed away and they wait for the next round of donations to give toys because they clearly “don’t have any”
Charities aren’t held accountable by anyone, and the ones doing actual charity work are such a laughable minority that they’re nearly nonexistent because it’s not sustainable to spend your own time and money giving free shit and labour to people for “Good Samaritan” credits.
Let me know how your taxpayer dollar sponsored plan to “give children guns” goes when we live in a highly individualistic society that’s probably running at peak individualism and “I’m the main character!” mental illness. People don’t give a shit about each other, especially not now when things are bad enough. There’s not going to be “nationalism” if you have no efforts put into making people not obsess over their own interests, own hobbies, own personality, and always trying to fend for themselves.
1 month ago
Anonymous
cont.
If you want an eye opener at charity and “volunteer work” go look at overseas operations that take rich young adults into Africa and other turd world countries.
Often the money is pocketed, embezzled, and sent to a few people. As for donations involving things like toys for “le hecking poor African children” they get locked in a closet or stowed away and they wait for the next round of donations to give toys because they clearly “don’t have any”
Charities aren’t held accountable by anyone, and the ones doing actual charity work are such a laughable minority that they’re nearly nonexistent because it’s not sustainable to spend your own time and money giving free shit and labour to people for “Good Samaritan” credits.
Let me know how your taxpayer dollar sponsored plan to “give children guns” goes when we live in a highly individualistic society that’s probably running at peak individualism and “I’m the main character!” mental illness. People don’t give a shit about each other, especially not now when things are bad enough. There’s not going to be “nationalism” if you have no efforts put into making people not obsess over their own interests, own hobbies, own personality, and always trying to fend for themselves.
tl:dr
1 month ago
Anonymous
That’s why you should donate to local charities with a concrete mission, rather than a generic goal like “We’re fighting titty cancer!”
I donate to my local battleship.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I donate to my local battleship.
You can call your wife by her name, anon.
1 month ago
Anonymous
cont.
If you want an eye opener at charity and “volunteer work” go look at overseas operations that take rich young adults into Africa and other turd world countries.
Often the money is pocketed, embezzled, and sent to a few people. As for donations involving things like toys for “le hecking poor African children” they get locked in a closet or stowed away and they wait for the next round of donations to give toys because they clearly “don’t have any”
Charities aren’t held accountable by anyone, and the ones doing actual charity work are such a laughable minority that they’re nearly nonexistent because it’s not sustainable to spend your own time and money giving free shit and labour to people for “Good Samaritan” credits.
Let me know how your taxpayer dollar sponsored plan to “give children guns” goes when we live in a highly individualistic society that’s probably running at peak individualism and “I’m the main character!” mental illness. People don’t give a shit about each other, especially not now when things are bad enough. There’s not going to be “nationalism” if you have no efforts put into making people not obsess over their own interests, own hobbies, own personality, and always trying to fend for themselves.
some got his feefees hurt because he had to help people
1 month ago
Anonymous
Agree tbh I'd much rather pay more taxes than try to patch holes in a sinking ship by volunteering
Shit like school lunch should definitely be free across the board and have healthy options
Healthcare wise we shouldn't ask doctors to volunteer we should just tax more if we as a society deem it necessary that people get that type of healthcare, etc.
Also no one fricking cares about service hours anymore anyway not even most colleges. Being black was always more useful than volunteering your time or being a vet.
good but it could be better. >6 months of training/service at the end of highschool >one of the classes is making a musket, learning woodworking and machining at a basic level >do community service within the 6 month service window >get to keep musket >offered psyc in order to get proper rifle >offered service contract if you don't wanna go to college >allowed to enter private sector with basic job experience and a connection to your community from doing service works
Private sector dgaf if you're a vet, look at South Korea. They definitely do not care if you're a vet more than if you have 4-6 years of work exp which is the opportunity cost
1 month ago
Anonymous
>if they install swings at their old school it gives them some connection to the place even if they don't care at the time.
God I would've loved to do that. Sounds comfy to set up something like that at my old elementary school
1 month ago
Anonymous
You need to run for office, you got good ideas
1 month ago
Anonymous
Offices aren't for me, I do enjoy running construction sites.
my school had something similar whee you where expected to do at least two hundred hours of community service in you last years
which considering we where a school full of snobby rich kids was a major shock for a lot of the kids that they had to go out and help people that weren't as well off as them
kind of strange to see a kid you know has a private jet at home serve the homeless in a soup kitchen
Yes. The right to a fair trial means we get a government provided lawyer. The second amendment means that the government needs to provide firearms for every able-bodied white male of age
DESU, I’d rather get nothing than get a government-issued Lorcin or Jennings.
Remember, the government has to provide you with a lawyer. It doesn’t have to provide you with a good lawyer.
What happens if your parents don't like guns and stop you from being issued a rifle or take it from you? Will they be held legally accountable for that?
That sounds like it would at least be a case of theft, and (if we're building a government that does what it ought to be doing ITT) definitely a Federal case of 'Definitely not very Freedom of them'.
Banks are not white males, they are banks. I don't care what the corporation owned government says, corporations are not people, they cannot own property, they have no rights
Once every male turns 16 they should be given the option to begin basic training every month until they turn 18, at 18 they go full military until they are 22, at 23-26 they should be given the option to either get an education or learn a trade while still doing military training every few months. during those 10 years the men visit different parts of the country to see how people live, while also providing some manual labor.
After all of that they come full citizens with the right to vote.
yes
Why stop there? Free ammo monthly!
no
Which firearm?
The M2016 Constitution, a bolt action rifle chambered for the .30-06 cartridge.
The best rifle
Frick pistol and rifle gays, ree flamethrowers for all!
maybe
Yeah. You should Implessively go fug yo mudda.
But also yes, i assume you mean a service rifle as the government should have already given you a .22 when you joined the Boy Scouts/Young Pioneers/ Peoples Youth Guard when you were 12.
No. They should have the opportunity to acquire a free gun if they want, but it shouldn’t be forced on them.
>Should the government give
who's gonna pay for it? you? frick off and die
Take all the taxpayer money currently shipped over to isntrael, and instead put it into the national gun fund
Why stop there? Slash ALL foreign funding including your precious israelitekraine, NATO, Korea, and Taiwan.
Those are objectively ethical and pragmatically worthy allies to defend/goals to pursue, though.
Keep telling yourself that, it's all you have left.
>please become isolationist already!
Oh no, we're just going to bomb all of you. Perhaps hold a vote on who we bomb continuously for the next month straight (televised).
America should be so isolationist that it's the only place left on Earth. The rest of you can live in bombed-out ruins with your tribes praying to the sky gods that they don't fart JDAMs all over you again.
God I wish! Become American or become target practice for Americans.
>ITT: /k/ doesn't know what the definition of a militia is since the Revolutionary War, War of 1812, National Guard act or the latest Defense Appropriations bill.
>AR-15s are $350
>and anyone who can't scrap $350 together genuinely shouldn't be armed
>but uhhhhh
>more gibs please ok thanks
self kill
Before the National Guard act it was illegal for a persons weapon to be confiscated for debt and if they didn't have one the government was required to provide one and regulate them appearing at monthly drills until such time as they could provide one of their own. Weapons ownership and militia membership used to be mandatory for voters and even non voters/residents, it still should be.
waow, is that an extremist position with little bearing on reality?!
BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED CHAD CHAD CHAD CHAD CHAD
shut the frick up
You need to be 18 to use this website.
I'm 32. I'm just sick and tired of hot take culture and dumb fricks who permanently think they're the smartest people in the room.
>"everyone should be legally required to own a gun"
>"um excuse me you are IMMATURE sir"
blow your fricking brains out moron. frick you.
Have you been ass blasted all 32 years or is it more recent? You should get it checked out. They might find your dad's wiener in there is something.
That's the most Reddit thing I've ever read. Congratulations.
I really don't think anyone on reddit talks like that
Yeah you would know all about that redditspeak, huh?
>BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED CHAD CHAD CHAD CHAD CHAD
This but unironically
I know what the militia is.
All I’m saying is that, just like the freedom of religion also means freedom of not being religious, the right to bear arms means the right to not be forced to bear arms. The draft is unconstitutional and immoral.
You should have that choice. You should have all the rights as any other military aged male (or person in this age) if you so chose besides one.
You should not be allowed to vote if you will not fight or serve in emergency.
>You should not be allowed to vote if you will not fight or serve in emergency
Indentured servitutude to the state is all that matters, I guess
>"hey anon mind doing some chores around the property?"
>"this is indentured servitutude. i invoke article 5"
Define emergency
>who's gonna pay for it?
>free firearm
>free
>firearm
nobody is going to pay for it. stupid.
Sweet Liberty of course
you must be 18 to post here
I'm thirty eight years old.
possibly sadder
nta but get fricked if you're in your 20s you're functionally moronic and should listen to your elders when they speak. you don't have to agree with what they say but if age has value then you're pretty entry level until you're in your 30s if you're a male.
i'm not going to listen to my elders if they're also on fricking PrepHole
No, service should guarantee citizenship.
Disgusting.
They should get it when they're 10.
Alternatively, this.
>as a rich person I find it absurd that poor people have any choice in anything ever
That's what you sound like.
And he’s not wrong
If you can’t manage your finances you can’t manage a country
Minimum wage is fricking nothing these days.
Anyone working for minimum wage is particularly worthless and likely a net drain on tax money.
>the world can operate without minimum wage workers
Are you moronic?
Slavery is cheaper and functionally identical to minimum waging.
You could have just said yes.
absolutely nobody makes minimum wage these days except for waitstaff who earn tips. mcdonalds starts at $15/hour
In a lot of states, 15 isn't enough for a living wage. In my state I could make 50k a year and have to choose between paying rent and being able to support a family of four. You need to make like 80k a year to be able to comfortably survive and support a family these days.
Then go to trade school/technical college or university and get a 'real job'.
The only people who should realistically be working minimum wage jobs are high school students, university students, those who've fallen on hard times/rebuilding their lives and need cash quickly, or old timers.
Stop this meme of pretending like minimum wage work is supposed to provide you with a life, it isn't.
In 1950, the minimum wage for one man was able to provide for an entire family. Today it can't provide for a single person.
It very much is supposed to provide you with a living wage, the idea of an economy that relies on, in your own words, kids, transients, and the old, is unstable and doomed to collapse in on itself.
>the idea of an economy that relies on, in your own words, kids, transients, and the old, is unstable and doomed to collapse in on itself.
Society absolutely does not depend upon those who take your order at a fast food place. There are certainly other lines of far more important work that can be underpaid when starting off, like certain construction peons, but generally minimum wage workers aren't exactly "essential". I go to mcds today, you don't even order at the counter, everything is done from a tablet screen they've set up in the shop.
1950 was a long time ago and the circumstances are far different today, whatever used to be status quo was frankly a complete anomaly (minus family values, there's obvious reasons why that is being dismantled).
As it happens, minimum wage work is often of un-importance. Electricians, welders, engineers, physicists, so on and so forth, are far more intrinsically valuable than entirely unskilled workers (not even labourers). Literally anyone can stock shelves at CVS, like high school kids who'd like some pocket money... but Joe Schmo off the street isn't qualified as a PE to rubber stamp civil eng plans on a local bridge development. Those are the people that society actually depends upon to make sure the infrastructure we use on a daily basis is usable and reliable.
And who is we?
Everyone who has posted in this thread thus far. Are unskilled, minimum wage IT employees preforming maintenance on and keeping Cloudflare servers online right now? Certainly not.
>Are unskilled, minimum wage IT employees preforming maintenance on and keeping Cloudflare servers online right now?
Given most tech jobs are done by poorly paid third worlders? Yes. A lot of software, animation and all that shit gets outsourced to India, Korea and the Philippines where they make less than minimum wage to do that stuff. The high skill IT guys in the states just set up the infrastructure and fix somethings, but day to day operation is handled primarily by low skill workers paid poorly.
For example, I've just finished classes to become an EMT; and I can expect anywhere between 18 and 21 dollars an hour starting pay. Granted once I work my way up to Paramedic, I'll be making a lot more money; but a good chunk of the system is working off people like me who aren't gonna make huge dollars despite objectively being an important service in society.
>...most tech jobs are done by poorly paid third worlders?
Poorly paid by whose standard? They sure as shit aren't receiving an American or Canadian minimum wage, that's why firms outsource in the first place. However, depending on the job, it could be perfectly fine, if not incredibly decent, for India/Thailand/Singapore/Eastern Europe/etc.
10 dollars USD/hour is slavery in the US, whereas it's to a Serbian codemonkey, it's pretty damn good.
Can't speak for EMTs, sorry to hear about that. Though keep in mind that 21 dollars, which is the maximum expected value you provided, is well above minimum wage. Keep in mind that here in Canada, a motivated individual could rake in a shit ton of cash over the summer working wildfire with a similar (***nominal***) wage-range as you. Sure, they're not paying for accommodations, but if they had to, they absolutely could with quite a bit to spare. These guys work a lot of overtime as well, I imagine EMTs do too, while providing a broadly similar service, insofar as 'saving people' goes. Wildfires in Alberta are ruthless.
With that being said, I am a bit surprised your maximum expectation isn't somewhere around $25/hr. Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
21 is definitely well above minimum wage, since that hasn't move since 2007; but over here it's not great. Living entirely on my own (and with the actual hours I'd get accounting for all the overtime I'd probably have) I'd be looking at probably closer to 60kish a year or something, and that'd be totally fine to live on my own; but having a family and supporting it on that salary is out of the question entirely. There'd need to be a second income to pay for the housing, food and all the other bills that come with children on that pay.
>I'm a bit surprised your maximum expectation isn't 25/hr
This is mostly based on a little bit of "average pay" research I've done; so it's definitely not accurate. But 25/hr is definitely on the high end for average EMT pay, as a completely fresh EMT I could probably expect 21-23/hr.
Note this all assumes the lowest level of EMT provider, there's three (four in my state) national levels in the US which naturally come with more pay and more responsibility. At the highest level (Paramedic) I believe the average pay came out to 31 an hour.
>Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
That's the neat part, because they're mostly private they try to wring you dry when it comes to pay. All my instructors (and higher level EMTs) told me lowest paying jobs in the industry are private ambulance companies where the pay can go as low as 18 an hour, the actually good money comes from working with a fire department or something like that.
>Given that hospitals are primarily 'private institutions' in the US, surely they could afford to provide a better salary?
Burgerstan hospitals are under neverending siege from bureaucratic vampires trying to file lawsuits because of malpractice or because somebody found out their neighbor had AIDS. To combat this the hospitals employ their own army of bureaucratic vampires to ensure everything is done *just so*. As you can imagine this leaves little money for paying the people who actually provide medical care.
>minimum wage
>a family
THIS WAS NEVER THE CASE, STOP FRICKING LYING.
Ok but also serfs only worked 30% of the year and lords were really nice to them
>continues to be moronic
Why are you leftists so fricking DUMB?
Lmao, you don't need to be "rich" to own property.
I can buy a sandlot for 30k, now I have a say in society. Pretty fricking dumb standard.
I never said anything to the validity of the standard. As you've pointed out, it's nonsensical, or at least very poorly/arbitrarily and un-rigorously defined.
Although insofar as housing itself is concerned, you don't need to be "rich" to own a decent suburban home either. Obviously, it depends on the particular municipality/township, the particular neighborhood, etc. For example you're shit out of luck in NYC, LA is pretty bad generally. Though it's certainly still attainable.
but it's correct
There should honestly be some aptitude requirement- same goes for officials, something to hopefully get out all the scammers and charlatans.
it should be taught in school.
>As a property owner I feel it is absurd that people that don't own property can vote to raise my property tax.
they don't vote for that. they vote for congressmen who do that, and the congressmen certainly own more property than you do, so it's fine for them to step on your face.
found the moron who thinks property tax is a federal issue.
no. it would be expensive and just because its a constitutional right doesnt mean that people have to exercise it. More than half of voters actually turn up at the polls and idiots talk to police officers when they have no obligation to
>More than half of voters actually turn up at the polls
What did anon mean by this?
dont* actually turn up at the polls
but that would be literal socialism
But it's National Socialism. There's the difference.
Literal copypasta
You posted this word for word last week or so
No. We should all be given a Traditions musket kit and expected to create our first firearm.
We must then procure powder and ball and shoot some invasive species like a razorback or a mexican or something.
Then we should be given a coupon for $100 off our first rifle.
>he thinks a private/corporate road system would be better maintained
Seriously? It's an idea that could be workshopped. I was on a rifle team at the age of 12 going into high school. The school was forced to dissolve its rifle team after my first year, and I've always felt that was a massive mistake. It should be mandatory to take a rifle class for your freshman year, which would include a strong weapons safety training & certification program.
Issuing a firearm to citizens with no other "issues" could be a part (perhaps an optional part) of such a program.
> which would include a strong weapons safety training & certification program.
Completely pointless because you can’t train people to not be moronic. ESPECIALLY teenagers
In fact, there should be no training courses for driving a car or truck or train or plane ... no training courses for anything at all. Who needs a certified plumber? They're all moronic anyway. Or welder, or machinist. Let's do away with all certifications and licenses. Might as well eliminate university degrees and high school diploma's. Everyone's too moronic for any of that to make any difference at all. Completely pointless.
Example: Nobody needs a license or certificate or training of any sort to post on 4chiinz. Completely pointless. Everyone's too moronic.
Who gave license to the government to license other people? Do you have a license for your opinion? How do we know you are qualified to talk here if you don't have a license in talking? I don't mind licensing, its the fact that you personally have to pay for the licensing that makes me not like it. Not him.
Unfortunately a large portion of Americans are now diagnosed with a mental illness and on psychiatric medication which precludes the legal purchase of a firearm.
IIRC the number of women on psychiatric medication (this includes anti-depressants) is around 30%.
Further recreational drug use of relatively non-addictive and non-harmful drugs like marijuana, lsd and other psychedelics, etc. means that the vast majority of the population is technically ineligible to purchase a firearm under certain interpretations of current firearms laws. See the Hunter Biden case. I think if they wanted to frick you over bad enough they could attempt to apply the addiction clause to anyone who uses marijuana on a yearly basis, it should be more specific.
Further even sharing marijuana with your significant other can be interpreted by DAs as being a drug dealer, see the fpsrussia case.
These are all problematic laws and should be amended to be more specific and fit with our current ideals.
I think this would be a good idea if we had compulsory military training, but it seems like this only works in low crime ethnically homogenous countries that are at more risk of foreign invasion than local psychos. The USA is no longer that.
Further having an imperialist military is not inherently bad, but we shouldn't force anyone to participate in an imperialist war even if it's overall good for the nation. (I don't believe Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan were necessarily in our interest, but things like WW1 could be interpreted as foreign intervention since we were at very little risk of an attack on US soil)
yeah let's get corporate police up in here instead
how will that work exactly
your complaints are that your local government sucks, not that property taxes are conceptually bad. many places are completely fine. just vote better
>just vote better
Doesn't work when I get outvoted 10 to 1 by freedom hating morons. The representative for my area has been the representative longer than I've been alive.
well that sucks but I don't think pulling the rug out from under your school district's feet will make the voters smarter
Reading your comments, I'm convinced that you are one of those people who shouldn't be allowed to vote. You're too stupid and malinformed to participate in these sorts of conversations.
>Reading your comments, I'm convinced that you are one of those people who shouldn't be allowed to vote. You're too stupid and malinformed to participate in these sorts of conversations.
yes but you have mandatory mil. service before you get it for 3 months and then twice a year, during a public holiday report to your millitia unit to train.
A gun is a duty not a right, just as the founding fathers meant when they copied the Swiss model.
>every citizen
No, because not every citizen is made equally as you can clearly see
115 IQ and above gets a free 9mm in case they ever want to commit suicide
>Should the government give every citizen a free firearm when they turn sixteen?
Yes.
It's not their child so it's not their business.
>16
>child
I think scalpers should themselves be scalped alive as an ironic punishment, but here we are.
>Set up nationalised companies designed to build large quantities of 7.62mm battle rifles and .45 pistols and ammunition.
>To be sold to citizens at cost.
>Require every taxpayer to choose between owning at least one such rifle, one such pistol, and at least 1000 rounds for both of them, and register for service in a locally organised militia - or pay 50% extra tax as the 'Coward Charge'.
>Nobody should be forced to serve against his will, but it's only reasonable for people who don't want to serve to provide something to mitigate the damage their hesitance might do to the country.
>Delegate the bulk of local law-enforcement to these militia.
>Over the course of about a decade or two devolve defensive duties of the armed forces to the militia too.
>Refit the army entirely for expeditionary work, pay retired servicemen to train militia groups once they get home.
>Over time the militia will probably figure out how to provide their own anti-tank/anti-air kit and tactics - make sure the government does nothing to stop/slow this process down.
I kneel
This only works in a country with very little ethnicities, you can't do that and not expect to collapse into Hispanic, Black person and other micro states.
>you can't do that and not expect to collapse into Hispanic, Black person and other micro states.
Why would that be a problem? Worst case scenario the other microstates can then reconquer the fallen areas and re-establish law and order there.
Oh boy G3 and USP 45 here I come!
>relying on the government to give you a gun
The government should frick off and you should buy yourself a gun when you turn sixteen.
No. Every citizen should build their own firearm at 16.
yeah, or really a tax credit to be used for whatever gun they want.
Yes, but since it doesn't, the people should develop homebrew enterprises and make their own firearms, ammo and food and fuel again. The people should be less reliant upon any centralized organization, corporation or government entity.
Now would be the time. As the M4 is phased out of active duty service, every able bodied male between the age of 18-45 should be issued one as they become available.
May want to restrict it to those with an able mind, as well. If nothing else, I doubt a flood of M4s will do anything good for inner-city violence.
Mkae it so you actually have to go to some government office and fill out a form to get it. Should weed out most of the unruly types
no, much as I love firearms and accessibility to them one must still recognize that there are tons of people in the world who shouldn't have any access to them at all, I wouldn't even trust them with a fricking butter knife
That's why we have guns
Do you enjoy the taste of boot?
No, but I also don't like the feeling of me or people I know being shot by morons.
Don't worry, 'morons with guns' is a self correcting problem.
>6 months manditory service at 18
>have to pass psyc to get in
>take service rifle home with you after service
This is the perfect way to defend any nation from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Pretty sure its nukes and minding your own business.
The UK has nukes and mind their own business and they are collapsing because nukes don't help against the domestic threats.
>nukes and minding your own business
Ukraine had both of those.
good but it could be better.
>6 months of training/service at the end of highschool
>one of the classes is making a musket, learning woodworking and machining at a basic level
>do community service within the 6 month service window
>get to keep musket
>offered psyc in order to get proper rifle
>offered service contract if you don't wanna go to college
>allowed to enter private sector with basic job experience and a connection to your community from doing service works
>i WANT the government to have more ownership of my time
morons on /k/ will give up any right just to have mandatory army school
yeah there's a lot of little dictators in this place
I'm
it isn't about giving up rights but about entering a social contract with the state.
We will defend it and they will make the state work for the average man, if they don't those average men are armed and trained.
what is the government supposed to do with like 40 million cadets? what private industries would completely die thanks to the free labor of them all?
>what is the government supposed to do with like 40 million cadets?
So 40 million people turn 18 every 6 months?
it was a rough guess, even 4 million free laborers injected into the workforce is insane.
>free laborers injected into the workforce
What are you talking about, I'm talking about manditory service for 6 months.
>turn 18
>do basic training
>get given assault rifle to take home
you also said
>do community service within the 6 month service window
Nah that was a guy responding to me.
As for that I actually think it's a decent idea but as a 1 day a week thing, they could maintain parks, plant trees, clean streets ect. It's another layer of trying to get people reinvested in their local community.
Problem.
Where the frick are you going to find millions of low-skill, temporary government jobs?
See
It isn't a jobs program just an attempt to stop the disconnection between people and their nation.
>but that kills contractors doing that
Yep, don't care, saves tax dollars and gets people invested in the community. The drive for maximum profit is why people don't have real communities anymore.
Buddy, I don’t know how to tell you this, but…
An eighteen year old isn’t going to give a frick about their community just because you made them pick up trash once a week for a couple months
I know it's not a magic fix but if they install swings at their old school it gives them some connection to the place even if they don't care at the time.
I started my electrical apprenticeship at 18 and at the time each job was just a job but now at 40 I can drive around my state and see things I helped build from schools and hospitals to office towers and factories.
I think for at least some of them seeing kids play in the park they built will mean something later.
> I think for at least some of them seeing kids play in the park they built will mean something later
It will. For people that were already predisposed to community.
For people that aren’t, read as: the people that cause problems, it would mean precisely jack and shit.
I'm sure kids will be ecstatic to build mansions for boomers, just like in Russia.
Nta
>building things for the community means building houses for boomers
What it wrong with you anon? I get the boomer hate but you can make the world a better place instead of being cynical about everything.
>you must hecking get your service hours chud!!
Shut the frick up and go fire whatever moronic “school board” staff member came up with that bullshit. Companies just know that schools force it and don’t really care, they’re not going to hire you because you slaved 8 hours feeding slop to homeless people. I had to deal with bullshit like that cutting my mark by 20% in my PE class regardless of athletic performance in highschool cause they expect kids to go out and pay fare/transport fees to and from fricking soup kitchens or whatever shit your volunteering at or that your parents have enough time to care about that shit and ferry you back/forth for a few days.
>inb4 but it shows that they want to work for free!
most volunteers put in the bare minimum work then gtfo when they can, the people who try to have a fetishistic “I care about hecking people so im good and can’t be wrong!” are a minority and probably have trauma in their life that causes the wicked attachment to being overly emotional and homosexualistic.
Volunteering and Charity are fricking cancer on the world, volunteering is just forcing people to work for negligible benefit cause some moronic school board staff member thinks it’ll “make the Hecking world a better place” or whatever fetishism he has. And golly color me surprised when you force people to work you get a shitty amount of effort put in, especially by children who need to study for better shit anyway than spend time volunqueering. As for charity, most of the major organizations are just pure cancer where the higher ups just say they’re “taking administration fees” for all the “hard work” they’re doing managing it and it ends up just being a large chunk of the total money raised by normies trying to fill the void of “nooo I’m not a hecking good innocent person” and having to virtue signal constantly or dump money at charities to feel better.
cont.
cont.
If you want an eye opener at charity and “volunteer work” go look at overseas operations that take rich young adults into Africa and other turd world countries.
Often the money is pocketed, embezzled, and sent to a few people. As for donations involving things like toys for “le hecking poor African children” they get locked in a closet or stowed away and they wait for the next round of donations to give toys because they clearly “don’t have any”
Charities aren’t held accountable by anyone, and the ones doing actual charity work are such a laughable minority that they’re nearly nonexistent because it’s not sustainable to spend your own time and money giving free shit and labour to people for “Good Samaritan” credits.
Let me know how your taxpayer dollar sponsored plan to “give children guns” goes when we live in a highly individualistic society that’s probably running at peak individualism and “I’m the main character!” mental illness. People don’t give a shit about each other, especially not now when things are bad enough. There’s not going to be “nationalism” if you have no efforts put into making people not obsess over their own interests, own hobbies, own personality, and always trying to fend for themselves.
tl:dr
That’s why you should donate to local charities with a concrete mission, rather than a generic goal like “We’re fighting titty cancer!”
I donate to my local battleship.
>I donate to my local battleship.
You can call your wife by her name, anon.
some got his feefees hurt because he had to help people
Agree tbh I'd much rather pay more taxes than try to patch holes in a sinking ship by volunteering
Shit like school lunch should definitely be free across the board and have healthy options
Healthcare wise we shouldn't ask doctors to volunteer we should just tax more if we as a society deem it necessary that people get that type of healthcare, etc.
Also no one fricking cares about service hours anymore anyway not even most colleges. Being black was always more useful than volunteering your time or being a vet.
Private sector dgaf if you're a vet, look at South Korea. They definitely do not care if you're a vet more than if you have 4-6 years of work exp which is the opportunity cost
>if they install swings at their old school it gives them some connection to the place even if they don't care at the time.
God I would've loved to do that. Sounds comfy to set up something like that at my old elementary school
You need to run for office, you got good ideas
Offices aren't for me, I do enjoy running construction sites.
my school had something similar whee you where expected to do at least two hundred hours of community service in you last years
which considering we where a school full of snobby rich kids was a major shock for a lot of the kids that they had to go out and help people that weren't as well off as them
kind of strange to see a kid you know has a private jet at home serve the homeless in a soup kitchen
Yes. The right to a fair trial means we get a government provided lawyer. The second amendment means that the government needs to provide firearms for every able-bodied white male of age
DESU, I’d rather get nothing than get a government-issued Lorcin or Jennings.
Remember, the government has to provide you with a lawyer. It doesn’t have to provide you with a good lawyer.
Knowing the government it would be a broken piece of shit
Not only should a citizen be trained and given a gun but they should also have an arranged marriage to a cute Asian girl
>putting a PRC spy in every household
Stop thinking with your dick and start thinking with your head.
Why get Chinese women when we have a direct line to Korean and Filipino women
If I want my Korean wife to look like Minka will the government also provide the gigantic fake breasts or are those on me?
>batshit insane and former prostitute women
No thanks
>cute
>asian
There is only one cute asian I've ever seen, and she is only half asian. Stick to your own ethnicity to preserve human diversity.
exposed yourself as a boring flyover moo cow in midwest
It's even worse than that anon. Born and raised in upstate ny.
>verification not required
What happens if your parents don't like guns and stop you from being issued a rifle or take it from you? Will they be held legally accountable for that?
That sounds like it would at least be a case of theft, and (if we're building a government that does what it ought to be doing ITT) definitely a Federal case of 'Definitely not very Freedom of them'.
they should give everyone a pair of bear arms
relevant image
Who gets to be a citizen?
White land owning males. Reject modernity, return to tradition.
>banks buy all the land
>oops no more land for the males
>old money geezers get all the votes
Wow your system sure falls apart as soon as the best case scenario goes away
>banks buy all the land
>they go broke
You didn't think this through did you?
Banks are not white males, they are banks. I don't care what the corporation owned government says, corporations are not people, they cannot own property, they have no rights
No, but firearm education should be mandatory.
And carrying a gun shouldn't be a right, but a civic duty.
> firearm education should be mandatory
Waste of time
Yeah but they should have the option to opt out.
Negative, freedom is mandatory.
As long as the lazy frick students pay for them
Once every male turns 16 they should be given the option to begin basic training every month until they turn 18, at 18 they go full military until they are 22, at 23-26 they should be given the option to either get an education or learn a trade while still doing military training every few months. during those 10 years the men visit different parts of the country to see how people live, while also providing some manual labor.
After all of that they come full citizens with the right to vote.
Men who do not serve are never allowed to vote.
Women aren't allowed to vote.
Boom a nice homogenous society.