Remington is the better design but their manufacturing went to shit after 2004 with poor quality metallurgy (literally bought by israelites and run into the ground)
Mossberg is better made but the design is janky in comparison. Disassemble both and you’ll see that right away. Remington is also buttery smooth action where as Mossberg (by design) has a bunch of chunky resistance stages as you pump
They’re both ok. If you’re willing to buy an older Remington - go for it. Try to find a wingmaster. They’re amazing and very cheap these days because so many boomers are dying and passing them on.
If you absolutely must have something manufactured in ~~*current year*~~ get a Mossberg.
>If you absolutely must have something manufactured in ~~*current year*~~ get a Mossberg.
Nah, neu Remington (RemArms) is good. They sold off initial stock but since... December 2021? It's all been new parts and they've been good to go since.
You can get a better shotgun than a 590 for far less since they're still overcoming the Freedom Group stigma.
https://i.imgur.com/JeI6jKD.jpg
Remington 870 or Mossberg 500? Or even a third option if you'd like
I've always been partial to 870s, but 590s are great too. It's an eternal debate, and as with any eternal debate there's no answer, but also there's two answers, it's pretty amazing that way.
You can't go wrong with either, so the only way to make the right choice is to check them both out and see which one suits your personal taste more.
Finally found the boof shotgun comparison, here's the first one
>870s, but 590s are great too. It's an eternal debate
Eh, I'd say the debate is the 870 vs. the 500. Those are fairly comparable. But a 590? That's a dedicated combat shotgun, there aren't too many barrel options for that. An 870 or a 500? Those can be set up for combat as well but you can also get rifled barrels for slugs, long barrels for hunting or clays, etc. 870 vs. 590 is an easy decision: do you want a general purpose shotgun (the 870), or do you want a combat specific model, the 590?
>870 isn't a combat shotgun
Are you being moronic on purpose? The 870 has been used since it came out across the world, well with US police, federal agencies and the military in multiple wars.
The 590 is a 500 with a thicker aluminum receiver and a heavier barrel.
A stock 870 has a steel receiver and a heavy barrel.
Just because the 590 was adopted doesn't mean the 870 isn't a combat shotgun. That's like saying the P226 isn't a combat handgun because the 92FS was chosen instead.
>Are you being moronic on purpose?
Are you? I didn't say the 870 couldn't be used for combat. I clearly said you can get them in combat configurations.
The point is that the 870 can be anything you want it to be, because of its barrel selection. But the 590 will only ever be a combat shotgun because you can't get any other kind of barrel for it. I wasn't knocking the combat capability of the 870, I was pointing out you can't put a skeet barrel on a 590.
Mossbergs have a design flaw that makes it too easy for the shell stop bar to bend out of place. It WILL happen eventually from normal use, and your magazine will fail to function. It's a somewhat easy fix, but if this happens in a defensive situation you're fricked and have to load shells manually.
Remington has updated the shell stop bar design to go past the shells and the ends sit in a shelf, making it impossible for then to bend. They've fixed the issue but Mossberg hasn't caught up, because Mossberg is literally using Remington's design on all the parts they didn't have patented at the time the Mossberg family put out a near identical copy of their shotgun.
In descending order >old Remington (amazing fit and finish, esp. old wingmasters) >new Mossberg (good functional and well made) >old Mossberg (same as above just worn) >Newer old Remington (all over the place qc, mileage may vary greatly, 2004 to ~mid 2010s)
No idea what is happening with the new production 870s now but they're under better management then those hedge fund homosexuals at Freedom Group. Bennelli and other higher ends will of course serve you well; but noit that much better than a Maverick 88. Anything below that in price is turkshit that will fail you.
I love the older 870s but the newer 870s are not as good as the 500.
I bought a Tokarev TX3 intended for the Afghans recently. It's not bad. Reminds me of an 870, though I have no idea if that extends past the aesthetic to the internals.
I prefer mossberg greatly
I have four mossbergs now, and I’m tempted to replace my entry level trap gun and skeet gun with another pair of mossbergs, though I don’t think they make a single barrel trap gun
guess I'll ask here since this seems to be the only shotgun thread up.
I'm wanting to convert a long barrel 870 into an HD type shotgun. My plan, besides of course swapping the barrel for an 18" one, was to replace the stock with the hogue one and add the magazine extension, since it only has the 4 shot magazine. Also I'd be interested in adding a ghost ring sight to the receiver if it's not moronic expensive.
First, please point out any moronation in the above. Also, what's the best way to go about mounting a light to a shotgun? IMO a light is basically required on a HD long gun. I'd didn't know if it's best to just pay the $150 for the streamlight foreend or if there's better ways of mounting the streamlight protac I already have to a shotgun.
Or you could be super traditional and hacksaw that barrel to 20" and load with 4x#3 buck. >flashlight
I know everybody does this because they want the creeper to have a target to shoot at.
>going to swap to an 18" barrel
Why the frick do you want to buy a 26-30" 870 in the first place then? Just find some place selling used police 870s and call them to see if they have any 18-20" models in stock. Unless you already have an 870, that is. Also ghost ring installation cost probably depends on whether or not you have a pre-tapped model. Haven't looked at ghost ring options personally.
Ah, I see anon. I saw some 18" barrels in with some other parts on everygunpart but they raised the prices $20 (from $70-80) and most are OOS and all bead sight only. Shame because I wanted a beater barrel with a bead. You might be able to find a rifle sight barrel there to modify if you check every day. Or hell, just buy an aftermarket barrel threaded for chokes at that point. If you do find a rifle sighted barrel, you CAN remove the rear sight block but IIRC it's either silver soldered or brazed on and if you heat it up to remove you'll need to refinish the barrel. Assuming you still want a receiver mounted ghost ring.
https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/remington-870-barrel-pump-qt2pzn-esnd-00.html
whoa, that's pretty cool. I didn't know I could buy used barrels like that without scrounging around ebay. So if I got one of those and it was like the pic, would some steel wool on the outside and oil make it good to go? Also what did you mean by OOS?
I could definitely settle for a bead, a ghost ring was just something I was interested in if it was cheap easy to do (Mines not pretapped for it, so I guess not).
I meant these. They were on sale for $70-80 or so! Stock, pump, barrel, and some random bits. Ebay has been fricking garbage every time I looked for parts; way too much. Honestly I just use some grease or oil, rub it in, and wipe it off. If there's any rust, either do it the right way and boil it to convert the rust or simply use oil and #0000 steel wool and gently scrub it off if you don't care about looks. By "OOS" I mean "out of stock". Ghost might be cheap to do if you can deal with a barrel mounted rear sight; there's probably a kit to swap the rear with a ghost ring. But frick me does the 12-15" sight radius not feel great on my 20" barrel - at least as someone who regularly shoots rifles with scopes. The extra 10-12" you'd get by mounting it on your receiver would be nice.
https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/remington-870-pump-np1n6e-gz5c-00.html
Mossberg 500 was my first gun, some kind of "tactical" model, can't remember, this was like 12 years ago, it functioned well and I never had any problems with it aside from the bead sight at the front falling off in the first shooting trip and being lost forever
after that any attempt to mount some kind of sight was met with complications
I had a gunsmith attach a set of Mossberg ghost ring sights after looking for them for years
for some reason the rear sight fricked up the trigger so that the pull was like 20# and fired on a delay
also the front sight, that had been braised on, fell off immediately, again
after that it sat in my gun safe and didn't get any action
A few years later I found a Benelli Supernova Tactical at a lgs for $300 "used", but looking like it had never been fired
Wrote a check immediately and walked out with it that afternoon
Eventually gave my Mossberg to my dad
The nova is definitely a "nicer" gun, had ghost ring from the factory, pic rail on top, the cool magazine cut-off thing in the pump, and a safety position that I prefer over the mossberg's
I will say that the mossberg felt more durable, and I have nothing but feels to back that up, I haven't beat the shit out of either
Overall I think the spaghetti gun is the better one, and looking at the price on a few sites they seem pretty reasonable
I have a new 870 and I like it. Got it on sale for cheap. It’s mainly a field gun so it gets thrashed. The fit and finish is shit and it’s been a never ending battle against rust since day 1. That being said it’s never given me a single hiccup and I’ve put a lot of shells through it.
Yeah but all modern 1300s have plastic feed throats that crack and they’re all made in your finest Turkish sweatshop, they aren’t the guns they once were.
Yeah but all modern 1300s have plastic feed throats that crack and they’re all made in your finest Turkish sweatshop, they aren’t the guns they once were.
https://i.imgur.com/Geeztvb.jpg
According to youtube, some people like W1300s more than R870s.
I have a 1300 that was made in CT. However iirc they all have the plastic mag throats
I prefer the 870. That's mainly because I like the safety and bolt release locations.
Aside from that, all basic pump shotguns do the same thing for me.
Having had a Winchester ranger 120 and remington wingmaster (both from Grandpa, RIP), I'd say the 870 is smoother in action. Now, the Winchester 120 is the sorta budget version of the 1200 with worse finish and wood so that's no surprise, but it isn't a bad shotgun at all, and hey its the one I have with a slug barrel and rifle sights so that's something. I'd just say that the 870 wingmaster has a slightly smoother overall quality and better build. Keep in mind both of these shotguns are fairly worn-in so it's not like there's any roughness remaining in them. Frankly I just like the tube release at the front of the trigger guard in the 870, rather than the winchester's whose release is a bit behind the trigger. I wouldn't say either are bad, and you couldn't go wrong with either.
HOWEVER I think there's still a much larger aftermarket for the 870 than even the 1300 today, so you'd probably be better off with that if it was a concern. I can absolutely see why some people preferred the Winchester shotguns vs Remington back in the day though.
Both are fine. Like a lot of posters have said, you can't beat a winchester model 12, but old wingmasters are a close second. Mossys are tanks, but the feel crude. If I had to get one do-it-all pump, I would get an older wingmaster with a 30 in barrel, and get a 20 in police surplus barrel with ghost ring sights. 30 for birds and clays, 20 for deer and defense. 2 3/4 is fine unless you are trying to play goose gun with a 12 ga rather than getting a dedicated 10ga.
Whoever the fricker is that beat me on the $30 Winchester 1300 wood stock and corncob handguard is on ebay, frick you. you better get good use out of it
Mossberg feels like something the Soviets would have come up with in an alternate universe. Equal parts tanky and crude, even the higher end 590 series ones feel kinda rough in terms of fit and finish.
Old pre-2004 Remington 870s have that peak American manufacturing era level of build quality and generally look and feel nicer overall but they're getting harder to find in acceptable condition as the supply of police trade-ins and boomer consignments have started to dry up in recent years.
Ithaca 37s are nice too but they're not super common and don't have anywhere near the aftermarket of either Remington or Mossberg.
Don't know enough about W1300s to comment on them but they are generally well liked and were fairly popular with law enforcement back in the day.
Remington is the better design but their manufacturing went to shit after 2004 with poor quality metallurgy (literally bought by israelites and run into the ground)
Mossberg is better made but the design is janky in comparison. Disassemble both and you’ll see that right away. Remington is also buttery smooth action where as Mossberg (by design) has a bunch of chunky resistance stages as you pump
They’re both ok. If you’re willing to buy an older Remington - go for it. Try to find a wingmaster. They’re amazing and very cheap these days because so many boomers are dying and passing them on.
If you absolutely must have something manufactured in ~~*current year*~~ get a Mossberg.
>If you absolutely must have something manufactured in ~~*current year*~~ get a Mossberg.
Nah, neu Remington (RemArms) is good. They sold off initial stock but since... December 2021? It's all been new parts and they've been good to go since.
You can get a better shotgun than a 590 for far less since they're still overcoming the Freedom Group stigma.
I've always been partial to 870s, but 590s are great too. It's an eternal debate, and as with any eternal debate there's no answer, but also there's two answers, it's pretty amazing that way.
You can't go wrong with either, so the only way to make the right choice is to check them both out and see which one suits your personal taste more.
Finally found the boof shotgun comparison, here's the first one
Second one
>870s, but 590s are great too. It's an eternal debate
Eh, I'd say the debate is the 870 vs. the 500. Those are fairly comparable. But a 590? That's a dedicated combat shotgun, there aren't too many barrel options for that. An 870 or a 500? Those can be set up for combat as well but you can also get rifled barrels for slugs, long barrels for hunting or clays, etc. 870 vs. 590 is an easy decision: do you want a general purpose shotgun (the 870), or do you want a combat specific model, the 590?
>870 isn't a combat shotgun
Are you being moronic on purpose? The 870 has been used since it came out across the world, well with US police, federal agencies and the military in multiple wars.
The 590 is a 500 with a thicker aluminum receiver and a heavier barrel.
A stock 870 has a steel receiver and a heavy barrel.
Just because the 590 was adopted doesn't mean the 870 isn't a combat shotgun. That's like saying the P226 isn't a combat handgun because the 92FS was chosen instead.
>Are you being moronic on purpose?
Are you? I didn't say the 870 couldn't be used for combat. I clearly said you can get them in combat configurations.
The point is that the 870 can be anything you want it to be, because of its barrel selection. But the 590 will only ever be a combat shotgun because you can't get any other kind of barrel for it. I wasn't knocking the combat capability of the 870, I was pointing out you can't put a skeet barrel on a 590.
Where did his front sight go?
Fricking hell, that is the most reasonable response I have ever seen in an 870 vs 500 debate.
However, your conclusions are clearly wrong, the correct answer is to find a used Ithaca 37.
Ithacas are classic as classic gets
Remington doesn't even make guns anymore, check their website.
Tavor TS12
I've already got a 590a1 and a benelli M4 tactical.
I don't really feel compelled to get anything else, unless it's a break action.
Mossbergs have a design flaw that makes it too easy for the shell stop bar to bend out of place. It WILL happen eventually from normal use, and your magazine will fail to function. It's a somewhat easy fix, but if this happens in a defensive situation you're fricked and have to load shells manually.
Remington has updated the shell stop bar design to go past the shells and the ends sit in a shelf, making it impossible for then to bend. They've fixed the issue but Mossberg hasn't caught up, because Mossberg is literally using Remington's design on all the parts they didn't have patented at the time the Mossberg family put out a near identical copy of their shotgun.
I had this exact problem on all three of my mossy pumps out of the box. 500 12g, 590 20g and even a 590a1. I have a Benelli supernova tactical now.
>Mossberg family put out a near identical copy of their shotgun
Have you ever looked at either one? Do you smell burnt toast?
For me, its the remington model 11 or stevens 67e/77e
Mossy.
All around sexier, lighter weight, and easier to load.
Benelli M3
>op image
they don't make guns that look like this anymore 🙁
That is sad, but there's tons of them out there and the prices are generally pretty reasonable.
i know, i have an old ithaca 37 thats very pretty 🙂
In descending order
>old Remington (amazing fit and finish, esp. old wingmasters)
>new Mossberg (good functional and well made)
>old Mossberg (same as above just worn)
>Newer old Remington (all over the place qc, mileage may vary greatly, 2004 to ~mid 2010s)
No idea what is happening with the new production 870s now but they're under better management then those hedge fund homosexuals at Freedom Group. Bennelli and other higher ends will of course serve you well; but noit that much better than a Maverick 88. Anything below that in price is turkshit that will fail you.
Winchester Model 12 is my favorite. But between the 500 and 870 I prefer the 870 design.
Old Wingmasters are goated, new Mossy's are the best pump guns on the market
I love the older 870s but the newer 870s are not as good as the 500.
I bought a Tokarev TX3 intended for the Afghans recently. It's not bad. Reminds me of an 870, though I have no idea if that extends past the aesthetic to the internals.
> TX3 intended for the Afghans
Whot
Mossman 590. Does anyone have that old greentext of the soldier splitting some dirt farmer's head open with a breaching slug?
590a1 🙂
I prefer mossberg greatly
I have four mossbergs now, and I’m tempted to replace my entry level trap gun and skeet gun with another pair of mossbergs, though I don’t think they make a single barrel trap gun
I grew up in a Remington house hold but I’m becoming more a mossberg man since I got this cheap.
buy old police magnum, make it what you want, I have a marine magnum as well.
Depends on budget. 870 if you have the extra cash, 500 if you want a frick around cheap gun. 590 for the middle
I'd get a police trade-in 870 police or wingmaster before a mossberg tbh
guess I'll ask here since this seems to be the only shotgun thread up.
I'm wanting to convert a long barrel 870 into an HD type shotgun. My plan, besides of course swapping the barrel for an 18" one, was to replace the stock with the hogue one and add the magazine extension, since it only has the 4 shot magazine. Also I'd be interested in adding a ghost ring sight to the receiver if it's not moronic expensive.
First, please point out any moronation in the above. Also, what's the best way to go about mounting a light to a shotgun? IMO a light is basically required on a HD long gun. I'd didn't know if it's best to just pay the $150 for the streamlight foreend or if there's better ways of mounting the streamlight protac I already have to a shotgun.
Or you could be super traditional and hacksaw that barrel to 20" and load with 4x#3 buck.
>flashlight
I know everybody does this because they want the creeper to have a target to shoot at.
>I know everybody does this because they want the creeper to have a target to shoot at.
ok, moron
>going to swap to an 18" barrel
Why the frick do you want to buy a 26-30" 870 in the first place then? Just find some place selling used police 870s and call them to see if they have any 18-20" models in stock. Unless you already have an 870, that is. Also ghost ring installation cost probably depends on whether or not you have a pre-tapped model. Haven't looked at ghost ring options personally.
I already have it, used to shoot skeet with it, but haven't in years. I'll still keep the long barrel around in case I get into turkey hunting later.
Ah, I see anon. I saw some 18" barrels in with some other parts on everygunpart but they raised the prices $20 (from $70-80) and most are OOS and all bead sight only. Shame because I wanted a beater barrel with a bead. You might be able to find a rifle sight barrel there to modify if you check every day. Or hell, just buy an aftermarket barrel threaded for chokes at that point. If you do find a rifle sighted barrel, you CAN remove the rear sight block but IIRC it's either silver soldered or brazed on and if you heat it up to remove you'll need to refinish the barrel. Assuming you still want a receiver mounted ghost ring.
https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/remington-870-barrel-pump-qt2pzn-esnd-00.html
whoa, that's pretty cool. I didn't know I could buy used barrels like that without scrounging around ebay. So if I got one of those and it was like the pic, would some steel wool on the outside and oil make it good to go? Also what did you mean by OOS?
I could definitely settle for a bead, a ghost ring was just something I was interested in if it was cheap easy to do (Mines not pretapped for it, so I guess not).
I meant these. They were on sale for $70-80 or so! Stock, pump, barrel, and some random bits. Ebay has been fricking garbage every time I looked for parts; way too much. Honestly I just use some grease or oil, rub it in, and wipe it off. If there's any rust, either do it the right way and boil it to convert the rust or simply use oil and #0000 steel wool and gently scrub it off if you don't care about looks. By "OOS" I mean "out of stock". Ghost might be cheap to do if you can deal with a barrel mounted rear sight; there's probably a kit to swap the rear with a ghost ring. But frick me does the 12-15" sight radius not feel great on my 20" barrel - at least as someone who regularly shoots rifles with scopes. The extra 10-12" you'd get by mounting it on your receiver would be nice.
https://everygunpart.com/long-guns-kits/remington-870-pump-np1n6e-gz5c-00.html
Mossberg 500 was my first gun, some kind of "tactical" model, can't remember, this was like 12 years ago, it functioned well and I never had any problems with it aside from the bead sight at the front falling off in the first shooting trip and being lost forever
after that any attempt to mount some kind of sight was met with complications
I had a gunsmith attach a set of Mossberg ghost ring sights after looking for them for years
for some reason the rear sight fricked up the trigger so that the pull was like 20# and fired on a delay
also the front sight, that had been braised on, fell off immediately, again
after that it sat in my gun safe and didn't get any action
A few years later I found a Benelli Supernova Tactical at a lgs for $300 "used", but looking like it had never been fired
Wrote a check immediately and walked out with it that afternoon
Eventually gave my Mossberg to my dad
The nova is definitely a "nicer" gun, had ghost ring from the factory, pic rail on top, the cool magazine cut-off thing in the pump, and a safety position that I prefer over the mossberg's
I will say that the mossberg felt more durable, and I have nothing but feels to back that up, I haven't beat the shit out of either
Overall I think the spaghetti gun is the better one, and looking at the price on a few sites they seem pretty reasonable
I have a new 870 and I like it. Got it on sale for cheap. It’s mainly a field gun so it gets thrashed. The fit and finish is shit and it’s been a never ending battle against rust since day 1. That being said it’s never given me a single hiccup and I’ve put a lot of shells through it.
According to youtube, some people like W1300s more than R870s.
Yeah but all modern 1300s have plastic feed throats that crack and they’re all made in your finest Turkish sweatshop, they aren’t the guns they once were.
You are thinking about turkish SXPs here, I believe. 1200s and 1300s are US made like any other 870 Wingmaster or Mossman500 classics
I have a 1300 that was made in CT. However iirc they all have the plastic mag throats
I prefer the 870. That's mainly because I like the safety and bolt release locations.
Aside from that, all basic pump shotguns do the same thing for me.
Having had a Winchester ranger 120 and remington wingmaster (both from Grandpa, RIP), I'd say the 870 is smoother in action. Now, the Winchester 120 is the sorta budget version of the 1200 with worse finish and wood so that's no surprise, but it isn't a bad shotgun at all, and hey its the one I have with a slug barrel and rifle sights so that's something. I'd just say that the 870 wingmaster has a slightly smoother overall quality and better build. Keep in mind both of these shotguns are fairly worn-in so it's not like there's any roughness remaining in them. Frankly I just like the tube release at the front of the trigger guard in the 870, rather than the winchester's whose release is a bit behind the trigger. I wouldn't say either are bad, and you couldn't go wrong with either.
HOWEVER I think there's still a much larger aftermarket for the 870 than even the 1300 today, so you'd probably be better off with that if it was a concern. I can absolutely see why some people preferred the Winchester shotguns vs Remington back in the day though.
yeah
Both are fine. Like a lot of posters have said, you can't beat a winchester model 12, but old wingmasters are a close second. Mossys are tanks, but the feel crude. If I had to get one do-it-all pump, I would get an older wingmaster with a 30 in barrel, and get a 20 in police surplus barrel with ghost ring sights. 30 for birds and clays, 20 for deer and defense. 2 3/4 is fine unless you are trying to play goose gun with a 12 ga rather than getting a dedicated 10ga.
Browning BPS is goat if we taking current production
Whoever the fricker is that beat me on the $30 Winchester 1300 wood stock and corncob handguard is on ebay, frick you. you better get good use out of it
Mossberg feels like something the Soviets would have come up with in an alternate universe. Equal parts tanky and crude, even the higher end 590 series ones feel kinda rough in terms of fit and finish.
Old pre-2004 Remington 870s have that peak American manufacturing era level of build quality and generally look and feel nicer overall but they're getting harder to find in acceptable condition as the supply of police trade-ins and boomer consignments have started to dry up in recent years.
Ithaca 37s are nice too but they're not super common and don't have anywhere near the aftermarket of either Remington or Mossberg.
Don't know enough about W1300s to comment on them but they are generally well liked and were fairly popular with law enforcement back in the day.
maverick 88