Shotgun is better than AR for home defense because range of your weapon isn't important at home distance and hit probability is.

Shotgun is better than AR for home defense because range of your weapon isn't important at home distance and hit probability is.

Change my mind

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    get one designed from the beginning for drums without a jury feed tower

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fuck bro... If politicians allowed this shit in we wouldn't be having to fuck with turk semis. Mag fed shotguns would've been decades ahead of what it is now.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Every fucking thread dude. Every thread.
        Did a turk fuck your mom or something?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Dude Turkshit semi autos are fucking garbage. Watch TFB shoot one into complete ruin in like 200 rounds. Caniks are good pistols but the semi auto shotguns suck.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mag fed shotguns have always been a meme. Saiga 12s used to be available in the $350-$500 range before Turkshit started hitting the scene like it is today. The reality is that they introduce additional possibilities for failures due to shells deforming because they were never intended to handle the sideways pressure a box mag like that puts on them, and massively increase the possibility of catching on shit if you have a mag of comparable capacity to what you can fit in a normal tube mag or larger, all for faster reloads that really only matter in shooting competitions involving engaging an unrealistic number of targets and video games.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So buy brass cased ammo?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          So buy brass cased ammo?

          Lmao
          >wall of text anon gets throughly destroyed by brasschad

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If your hit probability is higher with a shotgun than with an AR you need better buckshot. You're accountable for every single pellet that leaves the shotgun, any one single pellet going somewhere other than the intended target is unacceptable.
    They're still a viable home defense weapon and one of the better options if first-shot incapacitation of one to a couple unarmored targets is your primary priority. But not because of spread.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. Flight control wads are a thing for a reason but op is too stupid even for shotguns apparently.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"Your honor, I obviously didn't mean to hit a child that was two walls behind my home invader. Furthermore, I didn't have a choice when I took the shot. The people who invaded my home was a serious threat to my life. I didn't ask the man to stand where he stood before I defended my life."

      >You make a compelling legal argument, Mr Anon. All manslaughter charges are dropped. Your legal fees are to be paid for by the family of the home invader. You are hereby entitled to receive your firearm back from the police. America needs more people like you. Be safe and God bless America. This court is adjourned."
      >*Bangs gavel*

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Three burglars break into your house
        >Shoot one
        >The other two scatter
        >Hit a kid behind two walls in another apartment
        >Each of the surviving burglars get convicted of murdering the kid and their accomplice
        God I love America

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Three burglars break into your house
        >Shoot one
        >The other two scatter
        >Hit a kid behind two walls in another apartment
        >Each of the surviving burglars get convicted of murdering the kid and their accomplice
        God I love America

        >the court will give a murder charge to the person who got shot

        You both are wrong. You’re responsible for everything fired from your gun. Knowing what is behind your target is a core rule of gun safety. For example, if you live in an apartment and use a shotty for HD and hurt a neighbor then the court may consider you reckless for using a shotgun.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          literally no court has ever done that
          show me one (1) case where that happened

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >buckshot
      Why the fuck would you use this in home defense? What are you, retarded?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because it works. What would you use?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Flechetts

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not bad

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        wait until you hear that i use buck and ball
        .65 round ball with 3 .31 call buckshot

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Team 00 here. Ama.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Article 35 of the New York State penal code states that any injury or death resulting after a forcible felony is committed, the liability falls upon the criminal(s) who initiated the felony. Even getaway drivers get charged in the deaths of their partners. If a stray round hits a bystander, the person who initiated the forcible felony that warranted the defensive action is responsible.

      There is no way someone will be charged with murder or manslaughter successfully in NY state if the scenario you described happened. I'm sure many other states have similar clauses. I would at least hope so

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/P1TCA35

        No it doesn’t

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At typical HD ranges the spread of a shotgun is negligible. Meanwhile a rifle or carbine offers substantially higher capacity, giving you more chances to hit.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The real answer is that it doesn't fucking matter. Any situation that even gets to the point of what long gun you chose mattering (outside of if it's a double barrel or something) in a solo defensive scenario is already clear into last stand territory where you already fucked up in a very noticeable way a few steps back by pissing off people dangerous enough to put you in that situation in the first place and not then choosing not to get your shit together and leave the area before you had to fight them.

      >muh capacity
      Doesn't fucking matter in reality. People are going to fall back before you can use it effectively. A gang hit squad still intent on killing you would start mag dumping through your walls rather than continue into the fatal funnel where you can effectively engage them. A police force will burn your place down around you or bring in a shield ratted for rifle rounds and shoot you from behind it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Buy a concrete house so that nobody will mag dump through your wall and burning it will not be as easy.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Then the gang members leave and try to kill you in a different way, and police or any police like force will use different options at their disposal to kill you as well. Neither will fall back on human waves through a fatal funnel, and your choice of gun still won't matter.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shotgun is worse.
    Slugs obviously pose a huge over penetration risk, buckshot is reckless.
    One pull of the trigger from a rifle or pistol, send one projectile towards your target.
    If you aren't a fuckup, your projectile will go exactly where your sight was aiming.
    A shotgun, firing shot fires multiple projectiles per shot, these projectiles move in an outward, ever expanding pattern, but damage to the shot during firing, amongst many other factors can cause pellets to go wider, and more unpredictable ways.
    Even if all your marksmanship fundamentals are in check, and you have a perfect center mass hold when the shot breaks, of even 1 pellet misses the target, and strikes another person, or another person's property, you are criminally and civilly liable, and will be charged, and it would be entirely out of your hands, because of the randomness of buckshot.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Literally just use Federal Flight Control.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      At least it won't penetrate the burglar, then your wall and your wife like an AK47 bullet.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >OP specifically states AR, suggesting 5.56
        >you have to strawman your argument against my argument against buckshot by bringing up dogshit 7.62x39

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >like an AK47 bullet
        what kind of nogunz are you

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you are buying something like an entire shotgun for home defense or rifle you can afford special ammo for it. So we aren't suggesting you load your home defense rifle with m995. Use an expanding bullet, or frangible. Same as defensive handgun ammo.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But I already penetrated your wife anon

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is America. Our homes are like Chinese infrastructure minus the corncrete and enough nails to keep it from collapsing. Airsoft guns have enough power to peneterate the drywall.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Slugs obviously pose a huge over penetration risk
      Not really. That massive meplat combined with expansion makes it slow down FAST when it hits something. Bare in mind, most people hit with Critical Duty in an unobstructed chest shot keep the bullet inside their body, and CD penetrates a solid 18" in gel.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Even if all your marksmanship fundamentals are in check, and you have a perfect center mass hold when the shot breaks, of even 1 pellet misses the target, and strikes another person
      There is literally no way you're going to get that much of a flier when shooting at across the room distances you fucking idiot. Stop getting your idea of how shotguns work from video games.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >i've only used shotguns in video games: the post

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AR with light and 37mm launcher on the bottom, loaded with a beehive adapter.
    this is what everyone needs for home defense.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what kind of load out is best for home d?
    i have
    first 2 8 shot
    second 2 4 shot
    last one is a 1oz wadcutter slug

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      forgot to add, 4 more slugs on the cheek rest

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You are retarded

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >using birdshot for any defence purpose
      Retard confirmed

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >buy shockwave
    >buy brace
    >buy low recoil 00 buck
    you have now killed 99% of arguments against a shotgun for HD

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In what world is capacity 1% of the arguments against a shotgun for HD?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        in what world are 5+1 morons breaking into your home?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          who says you're going to land every hit? also manual action for home defense is retarded.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            now you're just splitting hairs with "what if" scenarios. like what if you pump 10 rounds of 5.56 into someone and they end up living and suing you?
            >muh manual action
            lmao, now you're REALLY splitting hairs my guy.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >now you're REALLY splitting hairs

              no i'm not. short-stroking the pump is a legitimate concern.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's about as much of a concern as limp wristing a pistol, or other absolute beginner mistakes.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >like what if you pump 10 rounds of 5.56 into someone and they end up living
              then i have 20 more rounds left to kill him with
              30 - 10 = 20

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Well my state and many others have laws that prevent that exact situation from happening. However if I manage to hit an intruder 10 times with 5.56 and NOT kill him I deserve to be sued for piss poor shooting

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >who says you're going to land every hit?
            Because people aren't sprinting and bunny hopping around like a video game.

            >also manual action for home defense is retarded.
            If you practice then there's not much of a difference considering you're going to be moving to the next target rather than double tapping the same target.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You’re a fucking retard and should really shut the fuck up

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >gaymer thinks real life is like cowadoody

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If you're not landing every hit, especially with a shotgun, chances of you going to prison are quite high

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              buckshot patterns at home defense range are the size of a gumball, dude.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ideally.
                But a deformation on a pellet is all that's needed for a flier.
                Then you also have 50% of shotgun HD fags claiming they want max spread to increase hit probability

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The advantage of a shotgun is lack of penetration and lethality. If you get shot in the torso at point blank by a .223 you could live, if you get shot in the torso at point blank range with a 12 gauge you’re dead, possibly before you hit the ground. In home defence you might only have a second to pull the trigger, a single shot that you want to count. The other vital reason is poor penetration. Plenty ot kill your target mind you, but a missed shot isn’t likely to go through two layers of drywall, insulation, and then another two feet of open air to hit your sleeping son, a .223 isn’t going to have much left after all that either but it’ll have more left than a shotgun pellet.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Literally no one is taking 5.56 to the chest within 100yds and still fighting.
                Rifles do far more damage than buckshot, slugs do massive damage at close range, but have other issues.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's not how it works.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >If you get shot in the torso at point blank by a .223 you could live
                This fucking board

                That's false

                Try actually reading the laws instead of talking out your ass. The criminal gets charged for initiating the act that led to it

                >The criminal gets charged for initiating the act that led to it
                Please cite this goofy claim

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>If you get shot in the torso at point blank by a .223 you could live
                Do you think everyone who trains with rifles chambered in .223 trains to double tap just because they like hearing guns go bang?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I’m criticizing the suggestion that a home invader with a .223 sized hole in their torso remains a threat

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If they're fully deterred at that point, then they were really never determined in the first place and your choice of gun never really mattered.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >determined
                >staying down because of a quarter-inch hole through your torso is due to a lack of will power
                LARPer detected

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >staying down because of a quarter-inch hole through your torso is due to a lack of will power
                Yes. Again, do you think everyone who trains with rifles chambered in .223 trains to double tap just because they like hearing guns go bang? If you aren't concerning yourself with pushing the capabilities of your gun at all, then your choice of gun for the situation doesn't actually matter, and you're the LARPer for thinking you'll be in a situation where it does.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes. Again, do you think everyone who trains with rifles chambered in .223 trains to double tap just because they like hearing guns go bang?
                Yes. Its 100% larp

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Yes. Its 100% larp
                As is the idea that you'll ever be in any situation where the difference between an AR or a shotgun, or frankly a handgun in practiced hands, would matter. Glad we could settle this.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >remains a threat
                Them living to testify in court is a threat. They need to die right there and then, not just be made a non-threat but have a chance of being saved with medical attention. Buckshot to the chest gives less chance of them threatening your livelihood after the fight is over.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >claiming they want max spread to increase hit probability
                On organs you dipshit. No one who has actually used a shotgun talks about not having to aim at all because they're sending feet wide walls of shot toward whoever they're shooting at. Having 9 pellets spread out over a few inches on the other hand will be much more effective when you consider how gunshot wounds actually work, as opposed to the retards insisting on using fucking flight control wads to try to shove all that shot through one ragged hole because they think real life works like video game damage points.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                8 inches is not the size of a gumbal.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >chances of you going to prison are quite high
              No, they aren't. Buckshot pellets aren't going through your house, the space between house, into a neighbors house, and have energy to hurt someone seriously. Round leadballs have terrible penetration. Even if they do have the energy, the likelihood of hitting anyone is next to zero.

              However if you are missing at HD ranges with a rifle, you aren't making hits with a shotgun either. Spread is a few inches at most.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Buckshot will go through much more than 5.56.
                And a miss means 8-12 chances.
                Not to mention, all that has to happen of 1 to enter your negbors house, they say it almost hit them, and you at best get reckless endangerment charges.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's false

                Try actually reading the laws instead of talking out your ass. The criminal gets charged for initiating the act that led to it

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That is not false.
                You will also be charged with vandalism/destruction of property.
                And that's assuming no one is injured.
                And since it is causing damage, you can see civil action as well.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                See

                >All the retards ITT that legitimately think low velocity lead pellets will go through your walls easier than a high velocity spitzer boat tail rifle round
                Why do I even come here

                retard. The likelihood of buckshot going through walls is far less than any rifle round suitable for self defense

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It is false. Shut the fuck up. Please learn case precedent before opening your gnomish cock hole again.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Whether the argument is realistic given statistical probability is irrelevant to its existence as potentially the most common argument against using a shotgun for HD. It probably comes up even more often than size does.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >shoots 3' high
      Heh, nothing personal kid

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Based Yankee Fitted Timberland Boot Wearer

    HELL YEA BROTHER

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    U a cracka, ars betta

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're good at killing everyone who invades your home (on purpose) and everyone else who lives there (by accident)

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don’t think shotguns are necessarily bad for HD however I really do think rifles are the way to go for a few reasons:
    >30-40 rounds capacity
    >varmint/hog hollowpoint ammo exists to negate some of the over penetration
    >said ammo is still hauling enough ass to blow through vehicles, and most times that a home invasion occurs there is a getaway vehicle in which the intruders could be firing at you from as they flee, or taking cover behind while firing at you
    >rifles are going to have better performance at the range in which you may be engaging vehicles, and the extra capacity really helps when your being fired upon from cover

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>30-40 rounds capacity
      I don’t see why this is useful. How many home defence scenarios can you find where someone fired off over ten let alone 20 rounds in defence that weren’t ghetto driveby shit? Even if 30 people bust down your door to lynch you after the first guy drops they’re gonna stampede out the door, this isn’t a video game where you have to clear your house room by room against enemies willing to stand their ground and risk death for your $200 TV monitor.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if you need a gun to defend yourself, who gives a fuck where the rounds end up. Hopefully all in the bad guy, but at that point Im thinking about ME and no,one else, SO Screw yah! Don't make me have to use it in the first place and we all cool, right?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >tries to sound hard
      >ends up sounding like a child

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Girl, you'll be a women soon

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anybody here use a .410 for home defense?

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you think a rifle is better than a shotgun for home defense you’re literally braindead.
    Yeah you know what I hate, putting five inch gaping wounds in intruders.
    Complete fucking retards, begging you to go hunt literally anything so you can see for yourself how much faster anything living drops when you put a shot shell in it versus 223.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Seems to me that the rifle people are imagining going solo on an entire gang of mooks seeing as how they’re touting a 30 round magazine as relevant in the slightest.
      >A dozen burglars break into my house, grab my reliable 12” barrel AR-15 with a thermal sight, flashlight, forward grip, bipod, and 60 round coffin mag
      >Open my door and see a burglar rush me drop him with a quick three round burst to the chest
      >Alerted his buddies three guys with rifles begin opening up on me, take cover and exchange fire eventually dropping them
      >Hear my teenage daughter screaming, kick in her door and see another five burglars trying to rape her
      >Open fire and kill them all but draw the attention of another two armed with dual pistols
      >Roll into my daughter’s room and hide behind the door frame dropping them both
      >Clear each room eventually dispatching the last burglar whp tried to use my wife as a human shield
      >Also killed both my neighbor’s pitbulls due to overpenetration

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Drum mags are notoriously shifty tho

  17. 2 weeks ago
    WhatGrip?WhatStock?

    I think I agree but I might be wrong.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    reliability and weight would be my deciding factors against using a shotgun for home defense. I'm not grabbing that thing for every little bump in the night.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >All the retards ITT that legitimately think low velocity lead pellets will go through your walls easier than a high velocity spitzer boat tail rifle round
    Why do I even come here

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Shotgun is better than AR for home defense because range of your weapon isn't important at home distance and overpenetration is.
    FTFY

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I agree on the basis of the large choice of projectiles available with a shotgun, and mental effect of a 12 gauge shotgun blast.
    I've been thinking about using a shotgun loaded with a bean bag shell in the chamber, and buckshot shells behind it.
    However, semi-automatic shotguns are very reliable with different kinds of loads, so I'd rely on a pump action shotgun which is less than ideal.

    In a perfect world without taking reliability into account, I'd use a shotgun, but I think I'm leaning towards any high capacity .45ACP with HP rounds for self defense in the end.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >bulkier than a carbine length AR (pistol AR or simply don’t comply)
    >heavier than a carbine
    >will get stuck on doorways
    >typically low mag capacity than standard AR magazines
    >notably more felt and actual recoil than an AR for roughly the same effect, thus effecting how well follow up shots can be placed
    >for effectively what can be done with 5.56 (dead assholes)

    There’s a reason anyone whoever sees combat prefers carbines over shotguns for room clearing.
    >inb4 but muh tiny shotgun
    Design to blast doors not people

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Room clearing
      Proof that ARfags are idiots who imagine themselves going Rainbow Six on burglars. People who have seen combat know you don’t clear rooms by yourself with no support.

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Basically anything that's not high explosives or a longass sniper rifle likely to overpenetrate all the way to your neighbor's house is good for home defence.
    The difference that matters is cost of gun itself, ammo and how hard/expensive it is to maintain and to train with.
    Shotguns are pretty good at all of these.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ARs over shotguns for hd
    >not unloading 8 shells of birdshot into an intruder
    ngmi

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    hit probability and damage per second. just like vidya.

    also just look at how ars performed at all the big-name shootings they've been in...
    if you can't trust a gun to be lethal at a massacre, why would you trust it at home?

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This isn't a videogame gay

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And yet the AR crowd is talking about clearing rooms and needing 30 round mags

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    AR with an 870 masterkey.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      why not an 1187 key to the city?

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