The Lel-Tec SU-16 is the perfect modern iteration of the scout rifle, all they have to do is chamber it in .308 and it would fit almost all of Jeff Cooper’s specs while also being a modern semi auto
SCOUT RIFLE REBORN
The Lel-Tec SU-16 is the perfect modern iteration of the scout rifle, all they have to do is chamber it in .308 and it would fit almost all of Jeff Cooper’s specs while also being a modern semi auto
If bullpup, then it can fit in my fanny pack
Tight lil fanny boy.
Frick off fudge packer
A scout rifle built with modern ammo would be 6.5 CreedMOAR
I am a 308 fan but 6.5 has longer legs and requires less dialing on your scope overall.
Are there any non-AR semi autos chambered in 6.5 Sneedmoor?
SCAR
Stop being moronic.
Top end .308 vs top end 6.5 cm, the .308 will have more energy to ~700yds and a flatter trajectory to ~600 yds
The scout rifle, with a low powered scout scope was never meant to engage those distances, so within realistic ranges, .308 is superior.
>The slower bullet with lower bc is flatter out to 600
I think you might be moronic
>Black person hasn't even ran the ballistics
>Fastest box velocity for .308 you can find
>Below box 6.5cm velocity
>Still getting absolutely mogged in wind drift
The power of .308
I'm not talking about bubba's pissing hot hand loads. You aren't getting 2904 out of factory ammo.
box 6.5cm velocity
moron, those are both ~150fps slower than max load data for their respective cartridges.
Lay off the copium
Frick off scum.
Using federal's vallistic calculator, using factory load data for a 6.5 cm loaded with a 140gr nosler partition, Vs. A 308 loaded with a 165gr nosler partition the even oit to 550 yards the .308 has 75.9" of drop. And 1139 ftlbs energy, while the 6.5 has 75.4" drop and 1006 ftlbs energy.
So at 550yds, .308 win only dropped .5 inches more but has 133 ftlbs more energy.
Even at 750 yards, the 6.5cm drops 172.4" with 733 ftlbs, and the 308 only drops 175.1" (2.7" more) and still has more energy at 810 ftlbs.
.308 beat 6.5 CM in every way, until you get out past like 1100, which is well beyond any hunting, or defense engagement ranges.
They say .30-96 fudds are the most dense thing in the universe, but it may be 6.5 cucks
I know you're a moronic schizo, but you can use a comparator instead of posting 5 different screen shots be wrong.
The energy difference doesn't matter, and if you use a non trash 6.5 bullet the 308 can't compete in wind drift which matters much more than .5 inches of drop, even If you try and push it at close to 300 win mag box velocity. You aren't smarter than the entire long range community. .308 is inferior, quit coping and buy more than 1 bullet.
>600 yards
>.308 is only .2 more mils
>using match rounds in a scout rifle
>complains but then posts own source of .308 BTFOing 6.5 cuckmore
Like anon said, densest thing in the universe
>Using match rounds in a scout rifle
>Unobtainablely high velocity for 178gr .308 and still losing shows it's actually superior
This is a new and interesting cope
>6.5 CM is better
No, within 1000 yards or so 308 is flatter and has more energy
>NUH UH!
Posts proof
>LIES
>*posts own proof*
>ignoring energy
>own proof shows that at 700yds 308 has a flatter trajectory, while 6.5cm drops 6.5" more
>b-but muh wind drift
>that being at 700 yards, .308 would drift 5" more! OMG! Still within the vitals, and only 2 extra clicks of adjustment of a scope
>THE FRICKING HUMANITY!!!!!!
All ignoring that a .308 is putting a bigger bullet, deeper and with more energy into the target, at faster velocity, and with a better bullet (6.5 eldm is known hot trash that just breaks apart and underpentrates)
In every factor that matters, out to twice realistic hunting/human engagement distances .308 win just keeps winning.
Now, punching paper 1000yds+, gun to your head, .308 v 6.5cm, 6.5cm will pull ahead, but that's beyond the scope of a scout rifle.
Why do you wanna be precision rifle dorks even post?
What program/site?
Bison ballistics bullet comparison calculator
Lol cope
> 308 is slower
Wut Black person?
Using nosler load data, both using 24" barrels
Max load 168gr .308 - 2904fps
Max load 142gr 6.5cm - 2733fps
Why would I want less velocity, energy, power, an frontal area of my bullet?
Captcha: 8TDDY
It’s basically the perfect non-AR15 rifle now.
>light weight
>integrated bipod
>stock that holds reloads
It is another innovative Kel-Tec win that Ruger will ATTEMPT to copy in five (5) years.
yeah maybe they're start using phillips head screws, too. lol
this is some hard core copium-lube keltec frick n suck thread isnt it?
I'd get a Steyr Scout if I was gonna go that route. You can't beat the king
>no backup irons
>no stripper clip guide
>5 round proprietary mag
The Savage 110 Scout does literally everything better
And the savage hog hunter is cheaper than the scout, can mount a proper scope, and with a stock swap can take .308 mags.
The su-16 needs to be chambered in 300 black people and made smol
Ah yeah. This thing would be sweet. It’s kinda got a 10/22 meets MP5 meets AR-15 vibe going on and I love it.
How many rounds until it explodes?
Roughly 5k till it cracks in half
more than enough... bet 70% of gun owners dont even put that amount of shots through all of their guns combined....
I’d buy if .308 or 7.62x39
SCROT
legitimately trash tier
This. They'd be fine if they didn't constantly break off the back of the upper receivers. RDB-S is substantially better but still pretty flexy.
In .308 it wouldn't hit cooper's parameters.
Literally no gun has ever hit all his requirements, they are either lacking features, or are over weight.
Is breaking in half one of the requirements?
>Cooper required it to be no more than 6.6lbs
>lightest rifle length vatient is already 4.5 lbs
You think you're turning that into a .308, and adding a scout scope and sling wile adding no more than 1.9 more pounds?
The Scout concept is so fricking stupid and I'm tired of seeing it. Bump the weight limit up two pounds and subtract two pounds from your kit. You can form a kit that's substantially lighter than anything Cooper could put together in his day with a 14lbs rifle. Areas to save weight via modern materials:
>your shelter
>your sleep system
>your insulating layers
>your mess kit
>your pack
>your freeze dried food
>your water filtration system
>your bushcraft tools
I have an 18" AR10
It's heavy but doable.
You can also build an AR10 that is lighter than most bolt guns
You can, but if we're going to go to extremes you can make a bolt gun even lighter. I don't think the extremes have much of point. A 9lbs AR10 is still handy. Save weight elsewhere.
This is false
t. Bolt gun and ar10 owner.
Maybe if you spend like $5k on ultralight everything AR10, and compare it to like a fricking m98 mauser, but even my 16" AR 15 in 5.56 unloaded, with lightweight handguard is 1.5lbs heavier than my wood stocked, 22" barrel savage in .270 win.
Aero m5 ar 10 with faxon pencil barrel and lightweight bcg is 7 pounds and some change.
Is that what they say on their site?
Because I bought an aero, online the lower said 2lbs, the upper said 4, no BCG
In reality the upper (with no BCG) came in at 5lbs bare, the lower was 3 and the BCG was almost 2lbs, the rifle bear was ~9.5lbs.
That wood stocked hunting rifle I mentioned is ~7 lbs with a scope
I don't think it's dumb if you don't treat the weight limit as a hard rule.
Being mindful of weight is certainly useful, but the 6.6lbs limit severely limits many excellent options that are slightly overweight.
>Your AR10 is 2.4lbs too heavy and can't accept stripper clips or a long eye relief scope! It's no good!
I think the stripper clips thing is also just autism. At the time cooper came up with the concept large detachable box mag rifles weren't really a thing. I'm sure he'd agree a 30 rd box mag is preferable to 10 round stripper clips.
>Areas to save weight via modern materials:
Implying 1 American gun owner in 1,000 actually has good kit filling all those needs
Also
>ultralight bushcraft tools
Wdhmbt
I have literally all of these things because I go backpacking. By lightweight bushcraft tools I mean kife, axe, cordage, firestarting tool, tarp. If you're not equipped to do a 3-day backpacking trip then you're clearly not equipped to be doing military reconnaissance. That's the point of the Scout rifle, correct? Scouting? It's so easy to shed weight on your kit. Why gimp your rifle?
Scout rifle is a fricking meme outside of restricted areas and big game shit in Africa. It in no way compares to a battle rifle
Urban snipers?
>no way compares to a battle rifle.
It wasn't meant to, anon. You scout for the enemy with a light, handy rifle. You get off a few rounds, if you must, and break contact back to your lines. (Guys who DO have battle rifles)
It's a difference of approximately two pounds! Two pounds gets you so much more capability. Save two pounds anywhere else. I've taken morning shits that split the difference between a "scout rifle" and a light-weight AR10.
Just even look at the newer cartridges we have.
I like .308, it's my main hunting go to, but you can put togeather a fairly light 300blk, and 300 blk is going to drop anything you'd feel comfortable shooting with .30-30, which is most things.
And if I were up in heavy brown/polar bear country, it's not like a. 308 is my first choice for that either.
Its ugly.
>muh scout rifle
Anyone that’s actually doing a reconnaissance mission would only carry a PDW because your mission to observe the enemy not fricking take them on single handed
In vietnam the scout rifle/rifles recce rifle of choice was a colt commando. Unless I was in Afghanistan or the flatlands of Idaho I'd take a short rifle and a pair of binos for scouting over one rifle meant to do both.
Just get an unconverted Saiga 308 and call it a day.
How much would you have to pay for one though?
I paid $1200 about 6 months ago. Much more expensive than they were before they were banned of course but what can ya do.
They're so ugly though
You're rude.
Scouts aren't semi-auto morons. Especially in 5.56.
Scout rifles were just one of the first true tacticool hype-train memes.
They've never really caught on with anyone doing anything serious because the scout rifle concept was basically obsolete on arrival and since then they've just been a solution looking for a problem.
PDWs have them beat in compactness and light weight, every major service rifle and DMR platform from the SKS onwards has them beat in overall combat capability (and 90%of hunting/innawoods brush gun utility as well) and dedicated precision rifles with regular eye relief optics have them beat at long range.
It was supposed to just be a general-purpose rifle for a lone rifleman to solve many types of problems with. It's biggest problem in my opinion is that it's just too light. 6.6lbs means a short, thin barrel and that's the worst possible thing to compromise on a rifle meant to shoot .308 out to 600 meters and engage in light combat or whatever.
I think the idea only gained traction because Cooper was otherwise a competent, trusted expert and it was also the coolest, most tacticool general purpose thing during the bad old days of the AWB.
>It was supposed to just be a general-purpose rifle for a lone rifleman to solve many types of problems with.
That's exactly why it was a DOA concept.
Anybody who seriously has the need to solve the kinds of problems the scout rifle was designed for won't ever send out just a lone rifleman to do it.
The only people who think that way are civvie armchair commandos who think IRL guerilla warfare against an occupying force, innawoods stalking and SHTF self-defense are just like Far Cry.
Would it be moronic to cut a Ruger American .308 down to 14.5" and pin and weld a muzzle device?
Yeah only because .308 sucks out of such a short barrel. A muzzle brake to direct the huge blast and fireball up does make sense if you're going full Jeff Cooper.
You're a moron.
147gr goes 2800fps from an 20" barrel.
Dropping to 14" it only loses 241 fps (2559 fps)
This is why I didn't even respond to him.
Yes, since you can buy a 16" one.
It would be cool if your muzzle device acts as a QD for a suppressor, otherwise a 16" gun would be pretty much indistinguishable and give you a few extra fps
Steyr already does it