You'd be hard pressed to find a more compact firearm when shouldered. Ammo is anemic and expensive but lots of folks have been killed by 5.7 just out of a handgun so it stacks up against most normal pistol calibers. Ammo is pretty light so it has the .22lr thing going on where you can carry 500 rounds easily without really noticing the weight.
Really the only negatives from a shooting standpoint is height over bore is always going to be an issue up close and the magazines can be finicky to insert and lock in quickly.
Good, if janky. 5.7mm is fast but small. You'll probably need to shoot someone a lot but you've got the rounds and accuracy to do so. Top feeding magazine means you can eject the brass straight down. That fixes the ejection issue with bullpup but makes the reload slower.
If you need to shoot a lot of leetle boolets real fast from a gun you can conceal under a jacket, it's the gun for you. I have the semi version, it's a fun little range toy, would shoot it more often if the ammo wasn't so expensive.
>conceal under a jacket
You need a pretty long coat to fit a P90. 20" OAL doesn't seem like a lot, but the average person has about 16" from their armpit to the bottom of the belt. Assuming you're okay with the stock being jammed against your ribs with it slung just under your arm, you need a jacket that extends just past your ass to conceal it confidently.
Its good for many kinds of security work, for example in a VIP protection detail, a high threat response police unit or a nuclear plant guard. Its also good as something to throw a set of into a vehicle without taking up too much room or being hard to retrieve in a panic. It is not a good weapon for mechanized infantry, where a little more weight and bulk is acceptable to add a more flexible effective range profile and greater penetration. The expensive ammo is a real drawback for the recreational shooter.
It remains the preferred weapon for SG teams, and significantly outperforms most models of energy weapon against a broad spectrum of targets from the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies, while also doing the USDoD a solid by no longer driving the price of 9mm blanks up just as it was enlarging its ground forces during the GWoT.
>Smaller than any AR could hope to be >Little bit heavy >50 round standard mag >Amazing Ergos >Ambidextrous >Height over bore is a little bad, optics options limited >stupid simple teardown and cleaning >blowback bolt beats itself senseless when suppressed >ridiculously reliable, partially thanks to dry-lubed factory ammo >widespread but limited usage >5.7 finally adopted by NATO >more ammo options available recently, which is also dropping prices
1. It's handy, M-1 Carbine levels of handy.
2. It didn't get formally adopted because sour Krauts sabotaged the program
3. The advent of compact versions of service rifles have filled the niche it was originally intended for
4. The proliferation of hard plate body armor has eroded the value of PDW calibers
5. Stargate is a pretty cool guy, eh locks chevron seven and doesn't afraid of anything
I've been trying to find a new magazine release and a stockpad forever. FN sales rep told me to get them off midwest but those guys haven't restocked any PS90 parts that aren't just mags or pins in years
The more I hear and see about this thing, the more I understand it. 5.7mm is essentially a souped up .22lr that can scream through very light body armor (if you can get the good shit, which you can't unless you load it yourself.), and it fires from a 50 round magazine. having fifty rounds on a weapon as compact as the P90 is in itself a game changer due to how much lead you can spit at a target, even if it's a semi-auto PS90. I get it. If anybody tells you it's a meme they're a limp dick homosexual who doesn't understand why being able to carry around 50 rounds in a package as compact as a P90 makes sense.
It's a meme weapon, because the cases when you absolutely need to be able to punch through soft armor from a compact package are minimal to the point of being almost non-existent, in part because of the fact that if you're not dealing with soft armor, 5.7 is absolutely terrible at poking holes in people to make them stop and so you need to have 50 bullets because you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times unless you get a lucky CNS hit. However, there are a few uses for it in the context of VIP protection where it's weird shape and size make it easier to carry then a rifle but better then a pistol, and they're allowed the full auto version which helps to make up for the poor wounding. For the average person, you're gonna have to pay for a tax stamp to even get to cut the barrel down to a point where the gun is providing any advantage over a traditional rifle or bullpup, and even then it's still a meme because of the number of followup shots you're gonna have to take compared to using a modern caliber that was designed for a SBR.
>you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times unless you get a lucky CNS hit
Hitting CNS is what you're supposed to do, you absolute moron.
>you need to have 50 bullets because you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times
That literally increases the chances of hitting CNS, as opposed to 7 round of "stahping powah"
There's valid argument against 5.7 but that wast a stupid fricking post.
>hurr durr, small difference between pistol calibers is the same as comparing pistol caliber to a rifle
If you're using a PDW sized weapon, there are very few cases where you can't use a SBR instead where you actually get lethal effects on target far easier and everyone who's actually shot people has said as much.
[...]
You're not wrong.
10.5" barrel chucks M193 55gr at ~2750 fps
SS190 out of the standard 10.35" P90 barrel is nominally 31gr at 2350fps.
Its limited by being straight blowback, but 5.56 also wastes a ton of powder out of so short a barrel.
If you are willing to go to locked, you can get exactly the same performance as 5.56x45 with a smaller, lighter cartridge in the same 10.5" length. That was the intent behind things like 5.56 MARS and 5.56 MINSAS.
Sure, with milsurp ammo. 5.56 has come a very long way for 10-12" barrels in the past decade or two.
If you want to go into peak performance mode, then forget 5.56mm altogether and get an AK bullpup chambered in 7.62x39mm. The soviet round loses far less energy than 5.56mm when the barrel length is shortened.
x95 can be had in 300niggout, which with supers can achieve similar short barrel performance to x39, but with greater magazine capacity. and ofc can also get factory subs, for suppressor use.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>x95 >suppressor use
I don't think so.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Arent most complaints just from people who slap a can on and make no other adjustments?
A piece of tape or a gasket can stop it from gassing your face.
You're not wrong.
10.5" barrel chucks M193 55gr at ~2750 fps
SS190 out of the standard 10.35" P90 barrel is nominally 31gr at 2350fps.
Its limited by being straight blowback, but 5.56 also wastes a ton of powder out of so short a barrel.
If you are willing to go to locked, you can get exactly the same performance as 5.56x45 with a smaller, lighter cartridge in the same 10.5" length. That was the intent behind things like 5.56 MARS and 5.56 MINSAS.
Based. I’m always spamming JVPC, MARS/MINSAS, and the possibility of hybrid case 5.7-sized 5.56 analogs in all PDW threads. I’m late to this one. They WILL make a resurgence once small arms designers realize they can scale down 5.56 to mag-in-grip size.
I wish *anyone* besides DT would make a 5.56 10" SBR.
DT has this moronic thing for 308 and 556 in the same chassis.
dear Black folk, what the frick, make 2 guns, 308 that unreliable and a 556 that is heavy as frick.
You're almost there. .300 BLK is a better bid for the cartridge, but you'll have to go down to an 8ish inch barrel to compete with the size factor. That is, unless, you do some wildly exotic operating mechanism that can cut space behind the chamber to below 10", which is the current wall for compact rifles.
If you want real results, you'll have to make a shorter cartridge with similar case capacity. Something like 9x25 Dillon pushed to 60k PSI would be close in mag capacity and could cut down around 2" of length to the gun firing it vs 5.56.
SBR bullpups like the MDR Micron are significantly better at delivering good effect on target, but dedicated PDWs are still the kings of "tiniest possible gun you can put into your shoulder".
The P90 is a counter-terrorism police weapon, not a military weapon. The complaints that many people have about it make much more sense when you look at it from that perspective. The height over bore makes a lot more sense when you consider it was designed with gas masks and ballistic face shields in mind. Using a small diameter high velocity round with armor piercing projectile means you can easily hose down an armored threat. Having a cumbersome top loaded 50 round magazine isn't an issue when you have multiple squads going up against a handful of terrorists, meaning you likely won't even need to reload the thing during a mission. The bullpup design, with the weird safety and progressive trigger makes sense when being fired single handed from behind a ballistic shield, etc.
Except it wasn't, it was designed as a weapon for truck drivers to carry that was more effective then a pistol but not a full on battle rifle which was impractical to move around with but was the only other option at the time. The terrible wounding properties of 5.7 against unarmored targets, IE your average terrorist and criminal, have lead to SWAT teams and cool guys absolutely despising it because you have to empty a good chunk of the mag into the first target until he realizes he's dead, which both leaves you with less dead guys per mag and having to spend far more time on one target while his buddy can engage you.
The idea NATO was going to adopt a new cartridge and class of weapons specifically for vehicle crews and rear echelon troops was always a pipe dream. FN designed a weapon they knew they could sell, but also fit the criteria of the NATO request on the off chance of it getting adopted.
Not true, like 5 to 15 percent survived the initial massacre, and now have been made into frontline troops by Russia and given thermobaric guns, filling their ranks with mobiks.
The VDV lives on as the sideguard for Wagner's meadgrinder.
It's the king of SMGs and the peasant of PDWs. As a pistol caliber, stocked gun, the P90 shines with its high capacity, flat shooting rounds and soft armor penetration. As a PDW, it's outshone short barrel, gas piston ARs.
only penetrates soft NATO armor
doesnt penetrate even the weakest russian VDV paratrooper armor
16inch PS90 not even comparable to 5.56 from a 10 inch
just powerful enough that 50 rounds might be able to kill more than one person
Pros: >Stargate LARP >Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck++++++++++ >Dabbing on poorgays
Cons:
It sucks when Uncle Sam doesn't bankroll it >$1600-1900 >for a hideous railed version. The $1900 ones sometimes include Chinese optics and Korean magazines >+$200 to SBR because gay 16" barrel >2A doesn't even cover cool ammo AND shitty ballistics >$.56+ per round for shitty FMJ >that doesn't reload well >... >...while a double stamped AR would be cheaper with better ballistics but ammo that costs almost half as much >... >The Carter Special wasn't that bad and you can get at least get a binary trigger for an AR
I have suspected for a while that ".30 didn't penetrate the chinamen's winter coats" is just an excuse for Pvt. Bubba missing. >"I swear I hit him, his coat must have caught this shitty anemic bullet or something"
There's multiple aspects to it. >.30 Carbine hits great great at close range, good up to 100yds, and then tops out at about 200yds. When you get past that, the bullet really isn't going very fast anymore, you don't wanna be hit still, but this cartridge is primarily made for defensive use at closer ranges, when you try to put it into a full infantry rifle role, which it isn't designed for, it comes up short. >M2 Carbine with its light weight and dropped stock is actually a handful in full-auto, and it was used a lot in full-auto, even at long range. The best way to keep shots on target in full-auto is with real short 2 or 3 round bursts, and it takes some practice, which not everyone had. >Allegedly, a lot of US troops during the Korean War were not particularly good marksmen, a shocking amount did not even use sights most of the time.
The M1 Carbine and M2 Carbine were essentially misused in the Korean War. .45 Auto isn't so fricking hot at 300yds, but that's besides the point because it's meant for at most a 10th of that range, so I never felt it was fair how the .30 Carbine got shit on for hacking it at a range well outside of its designed and expected parameters. Maybe it's because it was good for CQB, some people just expected or wanted it to work at longer range.
Korea really was assault-rifle town, with no assault-rifles in sight.
The US should have jumped on the Sturmgewehr concept IMMEDIATELY like the Soviets did, and come up with like a necked-down .30-06. Or jsut hang Colonel Studler from the highest tree and adopt the .280 by 1950 at the latest.
>.308 = BAD >.280 = GOOD >M14 = WASTE OF TIME >EM2 = BASED >Studler = gay
Do you have any ideas besides what gun jesus spoonfed you?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Do you have any ideas besides besides doubling down in the battle rifle dead end that was obviously moronic by the 1950s to everyone but the bean counters that forced it to happen?
The only downside to an FN FAL in an intermediate cartridge as the NATO universal rifle would have been preventing the introduction of the AR15 and its superior technology.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I'm thinking I've got an idea.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That thing is either a convoluted loophole to get finally a proper standard DMR in US forces, or another M14/M16A2 dead end made up by gays that only shoot at static targets and never have served in the front lines.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Country that never had to fight large scale urban warfare in WW2 forces all its allies to adopt a weapon unsuited to urban warfare >Country that fought multiple large urban battles in WW2 adopts something more suited to urban warfare
It's not the bean counters and it's not Studler. Americans had fought no urban battles and therefore had no idea how useful an assault rifle could be. >b-but AK is a copy of the StG and you're a gay
AK uses the round designed for RPD. Commies invented the RPD for urban combat. >b-but muh studler is a glory hound
Renee Studler was instrumental in the adoption of the M1 carbine, a box mag-fed semiauto carbine in an intermediate cartridge. He wasn't some old bastard who hated all things new.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Americans had fought no urban battles and therefore had no idea how useful an assault rifle could be.
Not only that's false, but assault rifles were still superior in pretty much all environtments. The fact the the US developed and fielded the M14 as the FAL, G3 and AK became widely avaliable was moronic as frick and had no excuse, even without the arguments about intermediate rounds. Same for their utterly failure at making proper GPMGs or DMRs until decades later.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Should have done .270 British and ended the future meme shit before it started.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Full powered is largely suboptimal for an infantry rifle, but that power and reach does still carry some advantages of their own. That said, I think that outfitting most grunts with an intermediate powered rifle was a pretty clear choice to make at the time, there was a lot of data and evidence from WW2 to point to that.
What we eventually got with the M16A1 I think is absolutely fricking excellent, and 5.56x45mm NATO is a fantastic infantry rifle cartridge, it's way better than the EM-2 and .280 British in any of its forms, and 7.62x51mm NATO is just a superb fricking machinegun cartridge.
I can imagine an intermediate power FAL though. >do something like a 7x40mm cartridge >about the circumference of a .223 cartridge and subtle taper, stacks well in a slightly curved aluminum magazine, LRBHO and all >rear sight attached to upper receiver together with the front sights, instead of on the lower >skip carryhandle, put springloaded dustcover on ejection port >use folding charging handle, one which you can engage onto the bolt in case you must assist forward
https://i.imgur.com/UeJTvVw.jpg
Yeah, I'm thinking I've got an idea.
If you wanted to go back to battle rifles, then the NGSW is about the worst fricking way you could do that. The FAL, AR10, or SG542, modernized, but still in good old 7.62x51mm, just M80A1 Ball, would kick that stupid things ass.
I have suspected for a while that ".30 didn't penetrate the chinamen's winter coats" is just an excuse for Pvt. Bubba missing. >"I swear I hit him, his coat must have caught this shitty anemic bullet or something"
You and everyone else that gave it more than a second's thought. It's bs
Breddy good for the intended purpose of being easier to carry than a rifle but easier to shoot than a pistol with AP capability for rear echelon troops in a Red Dawn scenario, really gimpy compared to a normal carbine if you take away the fancy AP ammo and select fire.
Absolutely perfect for the role it was designed for, kind of mediocre for what it was forced into since the Berlin Wall fell. Rene Predazzar was/is an underrated firearms designer.
I dunno why but whenever I saw this gun in video games I thought >so do they wear this thing as goggles and then take it off and shoot with it?
The trigger and grip just looked like eye holes for me and it didn't look like a normal gun to me
You literally only need to saw the barrel off, hash a *+* into the muzzle to make a quasi flash hider, then file off the bolt catch to make it full auto. I just made this up and even I can figure it all.
is a meme
good application: star gate
makes poorgays shart
is not used in conventional military for a reason
fpbp.This is now a Stargate thread.
Indeed
>american flag
>canadian woman
what did they mean by this
we own them
>canadian woman
Might wanna look where she was born. Protip; it wasn't Canada.
I remember something about this woman's husband disappearing off the face of the earth. I wonder what happened.
Agreed.
someone say goold?
>redpill
frick you also go ask bpg
Little point of it next to a Mk.18, unless you just want it because it's cool.
It works perfectly for the role it was designed for.
It's smaller, otherwise correct
You'd be hard pressed to find a more compact firearm when shouldered. Ammo is anemic and expensive but lots of folks have been killed by 5.7 just out of a handgun so it stacks up against most normal pistol calibers. Ammo is pretty light so it has the .22lr thing going on where you can carry 500 rounds easily without really noticing the weight.
Really the only negatives from a shooting standpoint is height over bore is always going to be an issue up close and the magazines can be finicky to insert and lock in quickly.
would do good for clearing mobik filled trenches
It looks pretty cool and it's in video games
Good, if janky. 5.7mm is fast but small. You'll probably need to shoot someone a lot but you've got the rounds and accuracy to do so. Top feeding magazine means you can eject the brass straight down. That fixes the ejection issue with bullpup but makes the reload slower.
>You'll probably need to shoot someone a lot
Not if you're at fort Hood apparently.
The 5.7gays final cope.
If you need to shoot a lot of leetle boolets real fast from a gun you can conceal under a jacket, it's the gun for you. I have the semi version, it's a fun little range toy, would shoot it more often if the ammo wasn't so expensive.
>conceal under a jacket
You need a pretty long coat to fit a P90. 20" OAL doesn't seem like a lot, but the average person has about 16" from their armpit to the bottom of the belt. Assuming you're okay with the stock being jammed against your ribs with it slung just under your arm, you need a jacket that extends just past your ass to conceal it confidently.
The Famas is an excellent weapon but this is one is in gay black matte rather than plastered in anime girls like it should be
Its good for many kinds of security work, for example in a VIP protection detail, a high threat response police unit or a nuclear plant guard. Its also good as something to throw a set of into a vehicle without taking up too much room or being hard to retrieve in a panic. It is not a good weapon for mechanized infantry, where a little more weight and bulk is acceptable to add a more flexible effective range profile and greater penetration. The expensive ammo is a real drawback for the recreational shooter.
It remains the preferred weapon for SG teams, and significantly outperforms most models of energy weapon against a broad spectrum of targets from the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies, while also doing the USDoD a solid by no longer driving the price of 9mm blanks up just as it was enlarging its ground forces during the GWoT.
>Smaller than any AR could hope to be
>Little bit heavy
>50 round standard mag
>Amazing Ergos
>Ambidextrous
>Height over bore is a little bad, optics options limited
>stupid simple teardown and cleaning
>blowback bolt beats itself senseless when suppressed
>ridiculously reliable, partially thanks to dry-lubed factory ammo
>widespread but limited usage
>5.7 finally adopted by NATO
>more ammo options available recently, which is also dropping prices
Don't forget the double tucked penis forward and rear grips.
height over bore is fixable if you're brave enough to go Low Rider.
1. It's handy, M-1 Carbine levels of handy.
2. It didn't get formally adopted because sour Krauts sabotaged the program
3. The advent of compact versions of service rifles have filled the niche it was originally intended for
4. The proliferation of hard plate body armor has eroded the value of PDW calibers
5. Stargate is a pretty cool guy, eh locks chevron seven and doesn't afraid of anything
>4. The proliferation of hard plate body armor has eroded the value of PDW calibers
Just shoot low.
Can't, they're behind generic waist high walls.
Aim at the conveniently placed red barrels, obviously.
Then sit behind your own waist high wall and wait for them to reload.
Great for gunning down Jaffa when in a hurry, won't do much against a hand device's shield, however.
I've been trying to find a new magazine release and a stockpad forever. FN sales rep told me to get them off midwest but those guys haven't restocked any PS90 parts that aren't just mags or pins in years
The more I hear and see about this thing, the more I understand it. 5.7mm is essentially a souped up .22lr that can scream through very light body armor (if you can get the good shit, which you can't unless you load it yourself.), and it fires from a 50 round magazine. having fifty rounds on a weapon as compact as the P90 is in itself a game changer due to how much lead you can spit at a target, even if it's a semi-auto PS90. I get it. If anybody tells you it's a meme they're a limp dick homosexual who doesn't understand why being able to carry around 50 rounds in a package as compact as a P90 makes sense.
It's a meme weapon, because the cases when you absolutely need to be able to punch through soft armor from a compact package are minimal to the point of being almost non-existent, in part because of the fact that if you're not dealing with soft armor, 5.7 is absolutely terrible at poking holes in people to make them stop and so you need to have 50 bullets because you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times unless you get a lucky CNS hit. However, there are a few uses for it in the context of VIP protection where it's weird shape and size make it easier to carry then a rifle but better then a pistol, and they're allowed the full auto version which helps to make up for the poor wounding. For the average person, you're gonna have to pay for a tax stamp to even get to cut the barrel down to a point where the gun is providing any advantage over a traditional rifle or bullpup, and even then it's still a meme because of the number of followup shots you're gonna have to take compared to using a modern caliber that was designed for a SBR.
>you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times unless you get a lucky CNS hit
Hitting CNS is what you're supposed to do, you absolute moron.
>you need to have 50 bullets because you're gonna have to shoot the target a whole lot of times
That literally increases the chances of hitting CNS, as opposed to 7 round of "stahping powah"
There's valid argument against 5.7 but that wast a stupid fricking post.
>hurr durr, small difference between pistol calibers is the same as comparing pistol caliber to a rifle
If you're using a PDW sized weapon, there are very few cases where you can't use a SBR instead where you actually get lethal effects on target far easier and everyone who's actually shot people has said as much.
I disagree.
You know what you don't have to get a CNS hit with? 5.56mm
Who are we going to believe, the famous case where 5.7 was used on multiple soldiers, or your feelings.
GOOLD?
I have a theory that a 5.56 bullpup with like a 10 inch barrel would outperform a PDW in every conceivable way.
They do.
>Cutting the barrel down that short, but not removing the bulky, heavy and uncomfortable extended buttpad.
Ain't my gun. This one's mine.
Sure, with milsurp ammo. 5.56 has come a very long way for 10-12" barrels in the past decade or two.
If you want to go into peak performance mode, then forget 5.56mm altogether and get an AK bullpup chambered in 7.62x39mm. The soviet round loses far less energy than 5.56mm when the barrel length is shortened.
x95 can be had in 300niggout, which with supers can achieve similar short barrel performance to x39, but with greater magazine capacity. and ofc can also get factory subs, for suppressor use.
>x95
>suppressor use
I don't think so.
Arent most complaints just from people who slap a can on and make no other adjustments?
A piece of tape or a gasket can stop it from gassing your face.
>muh homie
>AK bullpup
This has never been a good idea, and adapting an existing non-bullpup into a bullpup chassis is generally very subpar.
You're not wrong.
10.5" barrel chucks M193 55gr at ~2750 fps
SS190 out of the standard 10.35" P90 barrel is nominally 31gr at 2350fps.
Its limited by being straight blowback, but 5.56 also wastes a ton of powder out of so short a barrel.
If you are willing to go to locked, you can get exactly the same performance as 5.56x45 with a smaller, lighter cartridge in the same 10.5" length. That was the intent behind things like 5.56 MARS and 5.56 MINSAS.
Based. I’m always spamming JVPC, MARS/MINSAS, and the possibility of hybrid case 5.7-sized 5.56 analogs in all PDW threads. I’m late to this one. They WILL make a resurgence once small arms designers realize they can scale down 5.56 to mag-in-grip size.
Pic is 5.56 MINSAS
>goes blind and deaf after 3 shots
what are suppressors
11.3" and only a few inches longer than a ps90
I want to like the MDR, but that weird ejection system makes me hesitant.
The SBR micron version has a side eject system. they sell the normal sized rifle in side eject as well. and it's cheaper!wndyvy
micron could probably lose a pound of weight if it were 5.56 specific.
sad those morons have to make everything extra fat.
I wish *anyone* besides DT would make a 5.56 10" SBR.
DT has this moronic thing for 308 and 556 in the same chassis.
dear Black folk, what the frick, make 2 guns, 308 that unreliable and a 556 that is heavy as frick.
You're almost there. .300 BLK is a better bid for the cartridge, but you'll have to go down to an 8ish inch barrel to compete with the size factor. That is, unless, you do some wildly exotic operating mechanism that can cut space behind the chamber to below 10", which is the current wall for compact rifles.
If you want real results, you'll have to make a shorter cartridge with similar case capacity. Something like 9x25 Dillon pushed to 60k PSI would be close in mag capacity and could cut down around 2" of length to the gun firing it vs 5.56.
SBR bullpups like the MDR Micron are significantly better at delivering good effect on target, but dedicated PDWs are still the kings of "tiniest possible gun you can put into your shoulder".
The P90 is a counter-terrorism police weapon, not a military weapon. The complaints that many people have about it make much more sense when you look at it from that perspective. The height over bore makes a lot more sense when you consider it was designed with gas masks and ballistic face shields in mind. Using a small diameter high velocity round with armor piercing projectile means you can easily hose down an armored threat. Having a cumbersome top loaded 50 round magazine isn't an issue when you have multiple squads going up against a handful of terrorists, meaning you likely won't even need to reload the thing during a mission. The bullpup design, with the weird safety and progressive trigger makes sense when being fired single handed from behind a ballistic shield, etc.
Except it wasn't, it was designed as a weapon for truck drivers to carry that was more effective then a pistol but not a full on battle rifle which was impractical to move around with but was the only other option at the time. The terrible wounding properties of 5.7 against unarmored targets, IE your average terrorist and criminal, have lead to SWAT teams and cool guys absolutely despising it because you have to empty a good chunk of the mag into the first target until he realizes he's dead, which both leaves you with less dead guys per mag and having to spend far more time on one target while his buddy can engage you.
The idea NATO was going to adopt a new cartridge and class of weapons specifically for vehicle crews and rear echelon troops was always a pipe dream. FN designed a weapon they knew they could sell, but also fit the criteria of the NATO request on the off chance of it getting adopted.
It's a weapon of war, it's meant to kill your enemy.
Goes brbrbrbrbrbr r r
It’s completely obsolete
Russian paratroopers are extinct
>Russian paratroopers are extinct
Yeah i heard they all got pushed out of the back of planes without chutes.
Not true, like 5 to 15 percent survived the initial massacre, and now have been made into frontline troops by Russia and given thermobaric guns, filling their ranks with mobiks.
The VDV lives on as the sideguard for Wagner's meadgrinder.
Cool looking cook, driver and janny weapon that was memed into special farce by movies and vidyas.
It's the king of SMGs and the peasant of PDWs. As a pistol caliber, stocked gun, the P90 shines with its high capacity, flat shooting rounds and soft armor penetration. As a PDW, it's outshone short barrel, gas piston ARs.
*outshone by
>It's the king of SMGs
Not by any fricking stretch of the imagination.
Its fun as frick even as a semi auto. Allegedly the old ps90s were even more fun, for reasons.
Your post is peculiar because it suggests you've used a P90 but not the PS90.
good for killing off-worlders otherwise a meme. and frick FN for not selling their spicy ammo.
Product of Cold War-era autism. A niche weapon for military personnel who are not on the frontlines. Not very useful to the civillian gun owner.
only penetrates soft NATO armor
doesnt penetrate even the weakest russian VDV paratrooper armor
16inch PS90 not even comparable to 5.56 from a 10 inch
just powerful enough that 50 rounds might be able to kill more than one person
Pros:
>Stargate LARP
>Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck++++++++++
>Dabbing on poorgays
Cons:
It sucks when Uncle Sam doesn't bankroll it
>$1600-1900
>for a hideous railed version. The $1900 ones sometimes include Chinese optics and Korean magazines
>+$200 to SBR because gay 16" barrel
>2A doesn't even cover cool ammo AND shitty ballistics
>$.56+ per round for shitty FMJ
>that doesn't reload well
>...
>...while a double stamped AR would be cheaper with better ballistics but ammo that costs almost half as much
>...
>The Carter Special wasn't that bad and you can get at least get a binary trigger for an AR
Agreed, The AK is a better rifle.
I bet 5.7 is still enough to fricking murder tiny malnourished North-Koreans though.
>.30 Carbine wasn't lethal enough in Korea
>5.7 is enough to kill norks
I have suspected for a while that ".30 didn't penetrate the chinamen's winter coats" is just an excuse for Pvt. Bubba missing.
>"I swear I hit him, his coat must have caught this shitty anemic bullet or something"
Especially with the M2, which, even with the mild cartridge, wasn't super controllable in full auto.
The M2 is a 50 cal.
shut up.
Bubba might have actually hit their coat. But the asiatics were so malnourished that it just didn't hit any flesh and passed through.
There's multiple aspects to it.
>.30 Carbine hits great great at close range, good up to 100yds, and then tops out at about 200yds. When you get past that, the bullet really isn't going very fast anymore, you don't wanna be hit still, but this cartridge is primarily made for defensive use at closer ranges, when you try to put it into a full infantry rifle role, which it isn't designed for, it comes up short.
>M2 Carbine with its light weight and dropped stock is actually a handful in full-auto, and it was used a lot in full-auto, even at long range. The best way to keep shots on target in full-auto is with real short 2 or 3 round bursts, and it takes some practice, which not everyone had.
>Allegedly, a lot of US troops during the Korean War were not particularly good marksmen, a shocking amount did not even use sights most of the time.
The M1 Carbine and M2 Carbine were essentially misused in the Korean War. .45 Auto isn't so fricking hot at 300yds, but that's besides the point because it's meant for at most a 10th of that range, so I never felt it was fair how the .30 Carbine got shit on for hacking it at a range well outside of its designed and expected parameters. Maybe it's because it was good for CQB, some people just expected or wanted it to work at longer range.
Korea really was assault-rifle town, with no assault-rifles in sight.
The US should have jumped on the Sturmgewehr concept IMMEDIATELY like the Soviets did, and come up with like a necked-down .30-06. Or jsut hang Colonel Studler from the highest tree and adopt the .280 by 1950 at the latest.
.280 is a gay cartridge, and the EM2 is a gay rifle.
>.308 = BAD
>.280 = GOOD
>M14 = WASTE OF TIME
>EM2 = BASED
>Studler = gay
>.308 = BAD
>.280 = GOOD
>M14 = WASTE OF TIME
>EM2 = BASED
>Studler = gay
Do you have any ideas besides what gun jesus spoonfed you?
Do you have any ideas besides besides doubling down in the battle rifle dead end that was obviously moronic by the 1950s to everyone but the bean counters that forced it to happen?
The only downside to an FN FAL in an intermediate cartridge as the NATO universal rifle would have been preventing the introduction of the AR15 and its superior technology.
Yeah, I'm thinking I've got an idea.
That thing is either a convoluted loophole to get finally a proper standard DMR in US forces, or another M14/M16A2 dead end made up by gays that only shoot at static targets and never have served in the front lines.
>Country that never had to fight large scale urban warfare in WW2 forces all its allies to adopt a weapon unsuited to urban warfare
>Country that fought multiple large urban battles in WW2 adopts something more suited to urban warfare
It's not the bean counters and it's not Studler. Americans had fought no urban battles and therefore had no idea how useful an assault rifle could be.
>b-but AK is a copy of the StG and you're a gay
AK uses the round designed for RPD. Commies invented the RPD for urban combat.
>b-but muh studler is a glory hound
Renee Studler was instrumental in the adoption of the M1 carbine, a box mag-fed semiauto carbine in an intermediate cartridge. He wasn't some old bastard who hated all things new.
>Americans had fought no urban battles and therefore had no idea how useful an assault rifle could be.
Not only that's false, but assault rifles were still superior in pretty much all environtments. The fact the the US developed and fielded the M14 as the FAL, G3 and AK became widely avaliable was moronic as frick and had no excuse, even without the arguments about intermediate rounds. Same for their utterly failure at making proper GPMGs or DMRs until decades later.
Should have done .270 British and ended the future meme shit before it started.
Full powered is largely suboptimal for an infantry rifle, but that power and reach does still carry some advantages of their own. That said, I think that outfitting most grunts with an intermediate powered rifle was a pretty clear choice to make at the time, there was a lot of data and evidence from WW2 to point to that.
What we eventually got with the M16A1 I think is absolutely fricking excellent, and 5.56x45mm NATO is a fantastic infantry rifle cartridge, it's way better than the EM-2 and .280 British in any of its forms, and 7.62x51mm NATO is just a superb fricking machinegun cartridge.
I can imagine an intermediate power FAL though.
>do something like a 7x40mm cartridge
>about the circumference of a .223 cartridge and subtle taper, stacks well in a slightly curved aluminum magazine, LRBHO and all
>rear sight attached to upper receiver together with the front sights, instead of on the lower
>skip carryhandle, put springloaded dustcover on ejection port
>use folding charging handle, one which you can engage onto the bolt in case you must assist forward
If you wanted to go back to battle rifles, then the NGSW is about the worst fricking way you could do that. The FAL, AR10, or SG542, modernized, but still in good old 7.62x51mm, just M80A1 Ball, would kick that stupid things ass.
You and everyone else that gave it more than a second's thought. It's bs
People used to carry .25ACP a century ago, and maybe you needed to magdump all 6-7 rounds, but it definitely penetrated winter clothing.
.30 carbine is comparable in energy to .44 Magnum.
no, its comparable to a .357 magnum out of an 18 barrel
Breddy good for the intended purpose of being easier to carry than a rifle but easier to shoot than a pistol with AP capability for rear echelon troops in a Red Dawn scenario, really gimpy compared to a normal carbine if you take away the fancy AP ammo and select fire.
Just buy an AR.
Regular copper solids out of a 5.7 will penetrate IIIa armor.
pretty nice little home defense weapon, especially if you have a wife or girlfriend.
What a handsome lad
I wish they made it in 10mm.
Absolutely perfect for the role it was designed for, kind of mediocre for what it was forced into since the Berlin Wall fell. Rene Predazzar was/is an underrated firearms designer.
Jaffa kree deez nuts
Made to kill Goolds
Why you homosexuals care so much about guns performnce shmormanc when most of you have never killed a person?
I would like it to be able to kill properly if I need to.
I think it looks cool
femboy gun
I dunno why but whenever I saw this gun in video games I thought
>so do they wear this thing as goggles and then take it off and shoot with it?
The trigger and grip just looked like eye holes for me and it didn't look like a normal gun to me
punches above its weight. it shames 9mm.
Anon, That coon is about 3 weeks off the breasts.
if Belgium/Dutch does not like supply drops, then the FN P90 should be free and economical
Can anyone tell me how hard is it to make the PS90 go to a P90 without a shoelace? Asking for a friend.
If you have to ask, you can't do it
You literally only need to saw the barrel off, hash a *+* into the muzzle to make a quasi flash hider, then file off the bolt catch to make it full auto. I just made this up and even I can figure it all.
Shot one with a giggle switch and red dot. Easiest shooting gun in the world, I’ve felt 9mm handguns more. Doesn’t move even when dumping.
its well balanced with a somewhat weak recoil
its good up untill 100 meters and this is a stretch
the real downside is the cost of ammo