I recently bought a shot timer, and I was curious if there were any established drills related to concealed carry with generally agreed-upon acceptable times. I've been practicing triple taps on an 8 inch plate at 15 yards, and I average about 1.34 off the draw with .3 splits, but I don't know how that compares to others without any additional data. The only drill I'm really familiar with in this context is the Bill drill, but I was hoping to find something with fewer than 6 shots in one string of fire, especially so I don't have to add one from the average of my splits when shooting my LCR. Of course, there's the Mozambique, but I'm not familiar with any widely accepted par time for that. I would appreciate any recommendations.
go compete and see how you stack up compared to others anon!
I do, but I'm now trying to get more measurable personal improvement on my own time. IDPA is fun, but I'm looking for quick drills I can do on one or two targets so I can get a similar comparison without taking 3-4 hours out of a day to only shoot 100 rounds.
Thanks. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for.
Not sure but this is an interesting video about air marshall qualifications
5x5 drill. 5 shots at 5 yards in 5 seconds.
Thank you for your wonderful contribution. Somehow that incredibly simple and basic bit of wisdom has eluded me for years while I have needlessly pursued improving my pistol shooting skills.
That was using a Kel Tec P17. I could probably take a decent chunk off the splits since it's only a .22, but I don't have a lot of experience with it yet.
>You are literally already dead.
The biggest thing (after avoiding the danger outright)is knowing when to draw and a clean draw.
Like usual, nobody is thinking critically about self defense.
I don't have ccw holster numbers but that sounds fast for what it is on the draw. What size handgun are you using? Most average not competition grade but practiced people do those numbers with OC holsters. Good job OP.
Using a full size and OC holster I don't recall draw times but 2 to the chest at that distance with most people ive encountered is 1.9-2.1 seconds overall. I'd imagine significantly slower from CCW.
Draw and first shot times at 3 5 7 and 10 yards. Finding what your consistent cold time here will let you know what set of "go" signals you can use. For example if an attacker shows you his ear you can put a bullet in him before he can shoot you if you have a 1.5 second draw. If he shows you the back of his head, a 2s draw. If he glances away and looks at something, a 1s draw. Assuming mugger/robber ranges here, so 7 yards and closer.
A good drill is Bill's drill, both standard and retreating variants. It consists of drawing and firing 6 shots to center mass. Normally performed at 7 yards, a great time for this drill is 2s(1s draw first shot .2s splits). Retreating is done from 3yds to 7yds shooting while moving backwards such that your last shot is only fired after your foot crosses the 7 yard line.
Learning to shoot fast is very useful, and adjusting your grip and trigger press so you can quickly fire followup shots is a good skill to isolate. If you learn how to shoot at match paces, when you slow down to real life speeds, where high shot accountability is important, will feel easy. A good drill for developing this is doubles, where you practice shooting a fast pair at various distances up to about 15yds and fire the second shot as soon as you see your dot flash across your point of aim.
There's the FAST drill where at 7 yards you:
>draw
>put 2 rounds in a 3"x5" target
>reload
>put 4 rounds in an 8" target
It comes with par times with 10 seconds or better being intermediate, 7 seconds being advanced, and 5 seconds being expert. Various popular ecelebs like Lucas and Garand Thumb have shot it and posted their times as if you want to compare your abilities to theirs.
I'll have to try that one out. I don't really care about reloads, but it should be good practice anyways.
I went and shot yesterday using my shot timer. I was able to unholster from AIWB and put three rounds in the alpha at 15 yards in just under 2 seconds consistently. First shot being around 1.45-1.55. So your time is good as long as your accuracy is on point.
>concealed carry
>acceptable times
Faster than the other guy. If you're not playing games the only thing you should be using that timer for is to find out if you're improving or not and using that information to figure out why.
>Faster than the other guy.
Hence why OP is asking for drills with agreed upon times that you should be able to complete them in you moron. Trying to improve yourself without performance baselines for what amounts to poor/acceptable/good/excellent performance vs other people is moronic and in some cases can result in you completely wasting your time.
The other guy isn't shouting "GO!".
There is no "fast enough", only "I'm getting faster".
I've heard 1s for an A-zone hit from a draw to be good. It's hard to do that with a tucked-in shirt, but a draped shirt can do that realistically.
Regardless, is right. Focus on continuous improvement, you'll get good eventually.
My fastest time out of the holster and rounds on target center mass with an open carry 3 point retention holster is high 0.8x, I think 0.87 seconds, to the first round fired. I average right around 1 second to blow it, but I haven't timed myself with concealed carry, but I assume it'd gain some time purely to pull clothing away and rotate (for myself) out of appendix. That sounds pretty good, but one thing I'd stress is not going bananas for accuracy. You want hits, but statistics say first to fire wins. Train for relevant ranges for speed. So I'd say within 10 yards, within 5 yards, and then drills to draw discreetly or quickly and ready a precision, longer shot. Many encounters happen within 10 yards, like a conversation, someone not seeming right, or someone clearing distance to move. I'd also work in some movement if you can, so (safely) pulling the pistol and moving in a later but still away move. Don't move straight back, don't move straight to the side, but do a combination. It's proven to give you more room and more coherence to your running when you are being charged.
tl;dr don't forget your own movement, your positioning. Train to threats appearing to your side, how you will move, how you want to get off the X, etc.
>one thing I'd stress is not going bananas for accuracy
That's why I like my 8" steel plate. It's "good enough" for accuracy, gives instant feedback, and it lasts forever. Also, if I'm practicing to hit that 8 inches at 15 yards, my accuracy within more likely defensive shooting distances will be much better.
The most important part of civilian defensive pistol shooting are:
> Draw to first shot in the vital zone - reasonable standard 1.5 seconds, 7 yds
> One handed shooting and round accountability - reasonable standard 3 yards, 5 shots, 5 seconds with none dropped out of the vital zone (both hands)
> No fail headshot - 10 yards, 2 seconds
All standards are "cold" so no warmup, not even a dry draw and from the holster as you actually wear it in public. "Vital zone" standard is the -0 region of IDPA/IPSC silhouette, or a full B8 replacement center and "headshot" region is the -0 of the head of either of those targets or the black region of a B8 replacement center.
If you can do this with your chosen carry gun you're better than 90+% of people who carry and at least 50% of people who shoot competitions like IDPA.
I especially like the MAG80/LFI2 qualifier:
Target is an IDPA silhouette.
>3 yds, 6 shots, 3 seconds, primary hand
>3 yds, 6 shots, 3 seconds, secondary hand
>7 yds, 6 + 6 shots, both hands, 6 seconds
>10 yds, 6 + 6 + 6 shots (weaver, then chapman, then isocelese), 25 seconds
>15 yds, 6 + 6 + 6 shots (standing, kneeling, double kneeling positions)
5 points for A zone shots
4 points for B/C zone shots
2 points for D zone shots
0 points for any rounds that miss or are not fired before the end of each stage
Maximum score of 300, minimum passing score of 240, expert score: 295+
>>3 yds, 6 shots, 3 seconds, primary hand
>1/2 second splits at 9 feet
lol
>>10 yds, 6 + 6 + 6 shots (weaver, then chapman, then isocelese), 25 seconds
>qualifier has you swapping between 3 stances that work for the same purpose
What the frick is this shit?
Something that appears to have been created by Massad Ayoob, so of course it's moronic.
sounds easy, but do it from a holster and you'll see it's not.
the purpose of the different stances is to demonstrate the durability of the shooter's ability in different body positions, if you can't plant your feet and square your shoulders something like the chapman becomes pretty relevant pretty quickly. If you have seen the many ways people react to stress and try to shoot handguns knowing that you're good in isocelese and weaver makes sense.
If you spent time on anything other than the internet and a flat range you'd have realized that before asking moronic questions.
What makes it moronic is that drill involves you consciously transitioning between specified stances like you're a video game character. I, like many others, have experimented with several stances and techniques until I found what I liked, but it's been so long that if you walked up to me on the range and told me to show you a modified Weaver stance, I wouldn't know how to immediately do it. I probably get close without thinking about it when shooting around cover, but I'm not thinking about it like "I'm now in X situation, so I must transition to Stance B." I highly doubt anyone shoots like that.
Why the frick was Massad Ayoob ever taken seriously?
He made a name for himself in the 70s and 80s when skilled pistol shooting as we know it today was still in its infancy, built up a good resume based on that, and has been riding it ever since. Unfortunately, nobody has ever bothered checking if he has learned anything new in this century, and nobody in a position to matter has ever called him on his bullshit. And so, he remains, and people still give him credibility based on his name alone.
He worked as an expert witness for self-defense/manslaughter trials in the pre-stand your ground days.