Realistically, what is the future of this place? Is it a suitable environment for tank warfare?
>prussiaposters gtfo
>polish memers gtfo
>czech memers gtfo
Realistically, what is the future of this place? Is it a suitable environment for tank warfare? >prussiaposters gtfo
Assault from the sea. Russia has no direct land bridge to Kaliningrad and it's surrounded by NATO countries who won't let Russia send air support. Take the harbors and the people will have no supply routes.
Bus them off to Russia when they surrender and give the land to Poland or Lithuania.
>NATO-Russia war
Wake up. Just not going to happen anymore. Russia needs an army to wage a war after Ukraine
>Russia needs an army
It does not.
According to Russia it’s already been a NATO VS Russia war for like nearly a year now. I see no reason not to oblige their fantasy.
>Realistically, what is the future of this place?
to remain a stagnant shithole for eternity. no country wants it or it's people. should russia collapse it will simply rot in place, forgotten and irrelevant
Even Germany doesn't want it back.
Riverfront Euroblocks are so kino, bros
pain.
>Trees vs no trees
Yeah, its better now
>B-b-ut architec-
Trees.
what the frick trees, what kind of argument is that? are you trying to imply the top picture is more ecological because of trees?
homie those trees are dead as frick.
Russian can't even afford trees that live.
The picture was taken in the winter you fricking tropical brownoid. There isn't any leaves and it also why it looks fricking grey and grim. I'm all for shitting on Soviet brutalism, but the 2019 pic is disingenuous as frick.
I'd rather make it more like Old Prussia except with modern infrastructure. I'd have it given to Lithuania or made into its own nation-state.
>I'd have it given to Lithuania or made into its own nation-state.
Nope, out of question. Shall return to Poland.
Frick off 4th baltic state is the realistic option not the hurr durr husar fever dream.
There is no realistic option besides it staying a decaying shithole part of Russia forever or somehow becoming a competing successor state like Taiwan after Russia collapses
European capital region and nature reserve.
As cool as that would be it would be even more unrealistic I am afraid to say.
STFU CVCK
>nation-state
Of which nation, lol? Gypsies or the Kurds?
>what soviet rule does to a city
communist architects did more damage to this city than the RAF ever could
Commie block sucks but I think the trees and grenery improved it.
Too bad you cant combine german housing with more nature.
Germany lost a lot of territory after 1944 and they never really recovered it.
>Sudetenland listed as a lost territory even though they didn't belong to Germany before 1938
I mean it's technically correct but still... at this rate they could include all of Czechoslovakia and half of Poland, at the very least.
and it would be par for the course, considering what representation the German expellees tend to choose for themselves
for whatever reason the German Federation of Expellees, which is supposed to represent the interests of Germans expelled from the various areas of that they were removed from, has been run by the worst people you could imagine for the position since its founding - either actual Nazis, or people with very dubious connections to any expulsion, e.g. the current president's parents simply emigrated from Romania for economic reasons in the 1980s, and the previous president was born during the war in occupied Poland to an occupying soldier father and a wartime colonist mother
Lmao yeah, the forced expulsion tended to get nasty at times, but the Sudetendeutsche Landsmannschaft has been tanking most of the effort to garner sympathy for the fate of the expelled Germans just by existing.
>all of Czechoslovakia and half of Poland
those were not part of Germany prior to ww2
adolf dun goofed
>those were not part of Germany prior to ww2
Yes that's the point. Try to read his post again, friend
WW2 started in the second half of 1939 historylet bro
He said that if they include the Sudetenland, which Germany did not own before 1938, they might just as well include territories they annexed during the course of WW2 as well, for how "German" they were
No more (you)s, you're gonna backpedal some more when the problem was always your inability to read
and I said
look up what 'prior to' means and stop embarrassing yourself
That land belongs to poland anyway
>*the Habsburg monarchy
>Habsburg monarchy
STFU, Pax Jagiellonica will be restored.
P.S. Damn Habsburg backstabbing thieves...
>the russian cumguzzling trojan horse hungayry getting all that land
I think not
Hungary was more based then and had like no relations with Moskals.
you know that all the red an green lands were ruled by the bottom small red land that looks like a club to beat the others in line?
thats the country that realy lost land and never got it back. which is a pity for all these countries, because thats the empire that never started wars and provided the highest level of prosperity and relative freedom and security through the ages for its citizens.
It's a backstabbing viper.
?t=52
no one ever starved under habsburg
1600 death sentences by judges under the reign of Francis Joseph II - he pardons all of them because no one but the lord may judge
doesnt really sound like a viper
>no one ever starved under habsburg
Doesn't even know of the term "Galician poverty"...
>thats the empire that never started wars and provided the highest level of prosperity and relative freedom and security through the ages for its citizens.
>highest level of prosperity
>prosperity
>he doesn't know about the Kingdom of Bareness and Starvation
Holy shit the cube is such a cool building
Good end (admittedly unlikely) is probably independence from Russia and becoming its own state that adapts to the rest of EU and does a Ukraine to move past the vatnik influence
Neutral end will be aggressive demilitarization leaving it both shackled to Russia and dependent on the good will of its neighbours to feed itself
Bad end will be like German Silesia
Funny end is it becomes Northern Ukraine
>Bad end will be like German Silesia
Why is that the bad end? Kaliningrad only exists in the first place because Prussia suffered the same fate as Silesia, turn about is fair play.
Why is it unlikely? The local population (people who were born there, not outsiders who came from other oblasts/republics) would prefer independence. Moscow doesn't allow it because it's an important military site.
>Freedom to Russia enters Kaliningrad
>purges local mobiks and whoever is left
>captures nooks
>establishes a new country based on the Hanseatic League(which was established in the first place to combat slavic pirates in the Baltics)
now this is based
I went to a private school in Kaliningrad that was themed after the Hanseatic League...
Overall there are three types of russians living there. Military who usually get given apartments there, so they retire by the sea. Non-russians from the USSR that tried to flee to Europe but got stuck in that shithole(like my parents). And descendants of russians that came there in the 40s.
>Is it a suitable environment for tank warfare?
thats LITERALLY a large delta of big rivers
so no
level it completely with bombardment, resettle remaining ziggers, create a nature reserve there
Clean it up, dig out all the trash, kill all ziggers, and then let nature run its course. just like the korean dmz, or the exclusion zone.
Turn it into a large European nature reserve
>nature reserve
>littered with trash, industrial waste, fuel spillage, rusted munitions and commieblock ruins
Sometimes you have to work for the things you want most in life.
the good thing about nature is that if you leave it long enough it'll sort itself out. demo any buildings that look like they might collapse and let it be, maybe something cool will evolve like a frog that eats old bullets and toxic sludge
Bulldoze all that trash and build a capital for the EU in its place.
>European federl territory
>Welthauptstadt Germania, but it's in Kaliningrad
>The long awaited construction is completed.
>A building with a huge dome in the center.
>The naming contest is over.
>Name: World Capital (Welthauptstadt) Europa, DK (District of Königsberg)
Imagine the vatnik seethe.
Or maybe instead of Königsberg give its name from Poland or Baltic nation Russian consider their b***h. That would create even more seethe.
Pripyat is doing pretty well as a nature reserve
The greatest nature preserve in Europe is an irradiated wasteland that is unfit for human habitation.
Reminder that Russians are not human and thus don't count.
Some of the world's best nature preserves are uninhabitable by humans: the Korean Demilitarized Zone, the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, parts of the Golan Heights and the former Inner German Border, etc.
Have you seen zone rouge or the red forest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_rouge
You be suprised how well nature can bounce back in insanely polluted and radioactive places as long as the humans are gone.
https://emeraldreview.com/2022/12/chernobyls-red-forest/
yeah, my family was originally from Konigsberg, and before then lived in this area for centuries.
This is the best outcome. Modern Kaliningrad is completely fricked and has gone through like 4th ethnic cleansings in the past century. Just let it rest and give the land a break, preferably watched over by the Lithuanians
If Russia does end up breaking apart I imagine Kaliningrad will become its own country. Unless the Russian population is bused off to Moscow, none of the neighboring countries are going to want it.
in case of nato-russia war, probably land attack from both north and south and naval blockade, strikes on main city and removal of local government
Turn it into neutral territory, move the headquarters of every major international organization there, turn the rest of the area into a nature preserve.
this place was irrelevant trough most of its history - and nothing of interest is there now - Russia treats it as unsinkable carrier and nuclear missile base - no industry and population of less than a million... if its cut off totally by sanctions what's left of civilian population will flee to Russia proper as cost of living is very high (everything has to be imported by air or sea) and wages very low (no industry to speak of)
>and nothing of interest is there now
I disagree
>Kaliningrad
>RUS
its just a sticker. they will just peel it off on day. believe me.
It will become part of Sweden >:)
Kungsberg...
>"You've heard about Kungens Kurva"
>*explosion*
>"now get ready for KUNGENS KULLE"
>prussiaposters gtfo
homie the 'Russians' living there were waving the actual Eastr Prusian flag, they want to GTFO before Monke and and his mafia steal everytrhing.
>were waving the actual Eastr Prusian flag
Yeah, like 20 years ago. That East Prussian larp today mostly takes the form of fascination with the German past of the region and volunteering to fix up or care for dilapidated German ruins. Any political movement supporting independence was squashed a long time ago. Russians there are very much pro-staying a part of Russia.
If CIA HATO glowBlack folk from paranoid schizo Russian imagination do indeed exist, they should create an astroturfed pro-western movement there that will eventually lead to a EU-aligned city-sate.
if Russian legion attacked it they could have their own country...
It is a suitable environment for testing nukes and their impact on middle-sized agglomerations.
Realistically it will probably turn into a separate country that will be drifting away from russia. It will either stay as belarus-like or democratize and join west.
Make it an independent citystate and deregulate everything
Turn it into Night City irl
The Baltic's fricked up ennough as is without someone putting pollution: the city on it's shore.
Yeah we don't need to run any faster down the road to cyberpunk dystopia, we're already getting there fast enough as is
The Teutonic Order will rise again.
>Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem
>Active c.1190 – present
They are still around? Perfect! Give it back to them and turn them into a military order.
>They are still around?
Yep, though in 1809 became a non-militant Catholic order (picrel) focused on charitable acts. It's technically called "the Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem", but it's generally called the Deutscher Orden. There's also a Lutheran organization based in the Netherlands called the "Bailiwick of Utrecht of the Teutonic Order" which similarly focuses on acts of charity, specifically providing medical care. It's fitting considering the Teutonic Knights originated as a branch of the Knights Hospitaller tending to sick German-speaking pilgrims in Jerusalem. Both it and the Deutscher Orden are descendants of the medieval Teutonic Knights which continue to award knighthoods.
All that being said, there's technically nothing preventing either organization from becoming remilitarized. The pope could turn the Deutscher Orden back to a crusader order with a simple decree, and the King of the Netherlands could do likewise with Bailiwick of Utrecht . How awesome would it Protestants and Catholics joined forces and fought a crusade to free the Russian Orthodox Church from being a puppet of the FSB? Maybe create a branch for Orthodox Christians too for maximum inclusion. It could be under the authority of the head of the Ukrainian Autocephalous
Orthodox Church; the Patriarch of Kyiv and all of Rus' Ukraine.
Or even turn it into a united, secular order dedicated to bringing democracy and civilization to Russia--- by the sword, if necessary. This time next year, there could be Teutonic Knight peacekeepers with AK-74s patrolling the streets of Moscow in M2 Bradleys.
>Teutonic Knight peacekeepers with AN-94s
ftfm (fixed that for myself).
>AK Knightmind
>This time next year, there could be Teutonic Knight peacekeepers with AK-74s patrolling the streets of Moscow in M2 Bradleys.
Please...
Ha! Beat you to it.
>They are still around? Perfect! Give it back to them
Connecting the modern Teutonic Order with modern Prussian heritage doesn't necessarily make sense considering how it came about.
Grand Master Albrecht von Hohenzollern committed Grand Theft Order by declaring he's converting to Lutheranism and all the Order's lands are now his own private property; that's the founding act of the militaristic Prussian state under the Hohenzollern dynasty (later in charge of Germany until 1918) that most people know about.
The surviving Teutonic Order are those who refused to accept the legitimacy of Albrecht's theft.
The ~~*Teutonic Order*~~ can go frick itself harder than the priests did when they were still altar boys. Make Konigsberg/Kaliningrad Old Prussia Again.
>Lithuaniamemers ascendand
It's a military dead-end, but the only way to integrate it would be through ethnic cleansing
>ethnic cleansing
The russians will just leave for russia proper by themselves.
>Russians
>Moving to Russia proper
They would rather jump into the Baltic than be forced to move back to Russia.
Send them Alaska and make them slaves to the Old Believers whose ancestors they drove out centuries ago.
Wall it off from the rest of Europe and send all the third-world asylum seekers there
>oops, we thought you were looking for a lunatic asylum :^)
It's full of Russians and civilised nations can't just mass deport them so probably it will carry on as it has done for the foreseeable future.
Depopulate it and turn it into a nature preserve. Russia needs to be walled off from the civilized world.
Kaliningrad will be placed under the authority of the North Atlantic Council and renamed NATOpolis, the capital of the NATOblast.
There should be continental capitals for the UN on neutral territory, this can be the one in Europe. We can turn best Korea into the one in Asia. Ideas for N. and S. America and Africa?
Eritrea or that unclaimed triangle south of Egypt for Africa
>that unclaimed triangle south of Egypt
The Halaib Triangle? This is my first time hearing about it. Disputed territory, not too big, seems mostly empty, sounds like a pretty good candidate to me.
>Ideas for N. and S. America
Montserrat exclusion zone or some slice of land in French Guyana
If Russia collapses into civil war, I could see Poland and Lithuania seizing it under the pretense of disarming the Russian Army garrison and declaring it a demilitarized zone.
Have you ever seen Casablanca? Because it'll basically be that.
>what is the future of this place?
Probably the second place to declare independence during the upcoming russian civil war
Federal European Territory with some folksy Old Prussian revival of a couple thousand Baltaboos.
Poland was offered this region in the 1990s as recompense for communism, but declined. And no wonder - there's literally nothing there, except for Russians.
Didn't Russia tried to sell it back to Germany too?
Yes, but I'm not meming when saying there's nothing there.
No industry, no resources, no strategic locations, the soil is of low quality, all the old architecture is gone... just Russians.
This is a common misconception, but the offer was made by some literal who Russian general. The offer was never even considered as serious by either Germany or Poland.
Amber though...
Ah yes, the 3000 gorillion tons of amber of Mierzeja Wiślana.
Turn it into a homeland for the Romani people called either Romaniland, Romanistan, Egypsie, or Romania 2. Before any Europeans object, consider that it will mean there are fewer gypsies elsewhere.
Yes, gypos will willingly move to the frozen shores of the Baltic sea, sure.
>Romani
>people
what about the Sinti?
Make me, b***h
>prussiaposters gtfo
Rename it Twangste. (The Old Prussians were ethnically, linguistically, and culturally unrelated to the Prussians. Lol get fricked OP).
Old Prussians were kind of a separate Slavic tribe, right? IIRC there's not much left of them since the knightly orders colonized
old Prussians were part of Baltic tribes - but they were not genocided - just germanized - ethnic cleansing is pretty new thing imperial Prussians were mix of slavs balts germans and other ethnicities ruled by german aristocracy
>but they were not genocided
Lmao
>adopt our religion and customs or die
>accept these [[[settlers]]]
It wasn't like all of them got killed, but the Teutonic order was brutal and I'm pretty sure "X-ification" falls under genocide.
So, everyone, because Soviets expelled both all Germans and anyone else who was a German citizen, including local Lithuanians
>I'm pretty sure "X-ification" falls under genocide.
Actually there's a seperate but lesser known word for that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocide
West Baltic tribe, but very influenced by Slavs.
Fun fact, Old Prussian is the closest known "modern" (spoken within the last 200 years) language to Proto Indo European, it's also the closest European language Sanskrit apparently
yes, we are still around. Ancestry proven through genomic studies, family were germanized Balts from the region
It would be mainly Lithuanians then. Old Prussian culture was slowly genocided by Germans until the 1930s, which saw the final removal of all traces and placenames by the Nazis. Russian occupation for 80 years after and there is almost no trace left. Current Lithuanians are the closest cousins still in the area
yes, this was the first area colonized outside of the European Core. Actually where they developed the techniques that were later imported to the New World and used on the natives
This map is made by an American PDX gamer teen. Nation does not mean state or country and the people who lived there had their own flag for the region: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_Minor
>yes, we are still around
Oh lawd.
What makes you say they were more ibfluenced by Slavs than the others?
If you want to redraw Europe based on 1200 AD ethnic lines then you're in for a wild ride
>great poland
>little poland
what is this Bronze Age Ancient Egypt tier autism
even better autistic version
this is less autistic though
The HRE was a huge conglomorate of principalities led by a "high king", that is less autistic in my view than a "high and lower" poland.
i just find it funny that even in 1200 AD there were large swathes of europe that were barely inhabited
Europe used to have these things call "forests".
What's a forest?
its just the way voivodeships are named - to this day they are called Wielkopolska (greater poland where giezno - first caipital was) and Małopolska (lesser Poland where capital was later moved)
Is it considered greater and lower as well these days or are they just names?
just names - they are even pronounced as single word describing which part of Poland you are talking about "great" Poland was probably named after capital city located there
Just names, maybe linguistically it sounds similar to Russian "Malorossiya" but nobody treats it like that except for meme regional tribalism (i.e. shit we make up to say the other sports club region is shit).
Interesting, thanks
Older core area is called greater, newer area is called lesser. Russia has a similar thing with [Veliky] Novgorod (original, literally "greater" city) and Nizhny Novgorod (newer, "lower" city) and no the geography doesn't have anything to do with this.
Poland was divided by Bolesław Krzywousty into districts between his sons, fyi not only into: ze Seniorate Province (western Lesser Poland, eastern Greater Poland, western Kuyavia and Gdańsk Pomerania) aka "Lesser Poland" on steroids (or later Kraków Land/Duchy) and ze Greater Poland Province (western Greater Poland), but also the Mazovian Province (Mazovia, east Kuyavia), Silesian Province (Silesia, duh) and the Sandomierz Province (eastern Lesser Poland) + Pomerania aka Western/Szczecin Pomerania as a vassal of the Senorate Province and its Senior Prince aka High Duke.
>The senioral principle established in the testament stated that at all times the eldest member of the dynasty (the Senior Prince, the Princeps or High Duke) was to have supreme power over the rest (Dux, the Dukes) and was also to control an indivisible "seniorate province" : a vast strip of land running north–south down the middle of Poland, with Kraków (the Kingdom of Poland's capital) its chief city. The Senior's prerogatives also included control over the Pomeranian vassals in Pomerelia, as a fief. The Senior was tasked with defense of borders, the right to have troops in provinces of other Dukes, carrying out foreign policy, supervision over the clergy (including the right to nominate bishops and archbishops), and minting of currency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Bolesław_III_Wrymouth
P.S. It was a similar concept as in the HRE, but it devolved into a clusterfrick worse than GoT...
The best part is that Finland is just >Finns
It was also known as the Finnocracy of Finland.
The Swedish erasure of the Ancient Finnish Kingdoms continues.
hungarian borders look sussy
Gtfo out with that.
>Brittany
>Great Britain
That makes sense though anon because Brittany is where the Britons came from, to form Britannia and spread the Britonnic languages such as Cornish and Welsh.
It's the other way around, moron, Bretons fled to Brittany after the Anglo-Saxon invasions
The division is still present in modern Poland, you know.
That's a political map not an ethnic one. I'm pretty sure the OP was just to illustrate how things were and not a serious revanchist post.
OP here. It was a serious revanchist post. We identify genes associated with the Old Prussians and then ethnically cleanse everyone without them.
you know who to call for that
What stupid Ruski maps.
>HRE
>ethnostate
Rrrrright.
>chernigov is in Moscow
Wtf am I reading
>Soviet Union offered it back to Germany
>Germany refused
>Poland doesn't want it
>Lithuania doesn't want it
Kaliningrad is a strange place. Imagine having a city being abandoned by everyone who once lived there and them being replaced by a bunch of farmers and literal alcaholics who know nothing about the culture that previously existed there.
The only reason Russia wants it is because it's the only warm water port they have. Although I must say Konigsburg is still a pretty place and they do still have a few restaurants where they serve authentic East Prussian food.
They don't want it because they'd have to pay for upgradiing the infrastructure and cleaning up the environmental degradation, but all the people living there are Russians. It's not worth it when the only "benefit" was that the place was good for mushroom picking.
Can we all agree that literally anyone but Russians would manage it better?
>tfw you will never walk the streets of Königsberg
this unironically looks like a prime spot for the NATO capital once it's inevitably liberated and the russian migrants removed
i'll take it
Repeat after me : Free City of Köningsberg
It will be Macao of north europe
Literally not a single one of the surrounding countries wants it, annexing it just means more rusBlack person 5th columnists in your country.
The only reason it bothers people is map autism.
>The only reason it bothers people is map autism.
That and having Russia as a neighbour.
Who exactly loses russia as a neighbor if Kaliningrad is removed?
poland?
Well, shit.
I don't know, I personally would sleep much sounder if Russia was cut of from the baltic sea entirely.
Demilitarization would cut a good chunk of the population. The rest could be paid to frick off back to Russia.
deport ziggers back to the tzars warm embrace. its not that complicated FFS. the clay and its position is still good and the infrastructure projects to trash the rotting huts to be replaced with decent restorations will be a major drive of economic activity. something euro economis can never have enough of
>inb4 bu-but we cant do that because reasons
with this mentality all ziggers need to do is bum rush flood some area, immediately kill of the local population, replace it with its transplants and useful idiots on the other side go "oh we dont want that anymore, its full of ziggers!". Inch by incy devouring euro until there is nothing left but a post apoc wasteland aka Russia
deport the snow Black folk back. by force
Terra Nullis that shit. Everyone by now should be wise to making tiny independent Baltic states after "Free City Danzig"
Kaliningrad is German clay. Prussia will rise once more
/k/ should invade it and turn it into a gun manufacturing hub.
1-2 weeks. That's realistically how long it would take for the Polish armoured spearhead to take over the oblast. Ever since the fall of Warsaw Pact that has been the sole goal of those 2 armoured divisions sitting on NATOs eastern flank.
A new city state-like entity, I hope
I want more map gore
Hopefully ethnic cleansing and replacement with either germans, poles, or lithuanians. Hitler was ironically correct on russians being subhuman, by extension of his mismanagement of slavs which are mostly fine except them
glass it like new mombasa.
Green Ukraine MkII
memers gtfo
You think pic rel is a fricking MEME?
P.S. You better take that back, homosexual.
Relax Black person, I'm Polish OP and want that clay too, I just didn't want delusional polskigays flooding the thread
shit thread so far tbh
Then make a better one next time, loser.
Anything happening in the baltic region will be a naval battle
Königsberg ist rechtmäßiges Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland. Eine Rückführung der dorthin zwangsumgesiedelten Bevölkerung nach Russland ist die einzige logische Konsequenz. Anschließend wird Königsberg ein Verwaltungsbezirk, in welchem sämtliche europäischen Institutionen angesiedelt werden. Nach dem erfolgreichen Umbau von Königsberg wird das Territorium als erstes "Land" der Europäischen Union überschrieben, um damit zum ersten Land mit dem Namen der Europäischen Union.
Die Einnahme von Königsberg erfolgt durch Annexion (ausgeführt von Luxemburg). Ist ja nicht so, als wenn Russland etwas dagegen tun könnte.
Build a wall around it and dump russian diaspora and other morons that think orc culture is enriching. Köningsberg is a no mans land after decades of orc debauchery.
this needs to be returned to germany, i demand it.
Germany doesn't want it anymore
>Russian defense strategy, 101: make your land so polluted, worthless, and miserable that nobody would want it
Nothing unless ruzznigs will go bankrupt/collapse, get demilitarized and decides to sell this land to EU and they rather starve millions than lose a single square of territory.
>ideal situation
independent city state or new prussia
>what'll realistically happen
russia will likely hold onto it for the foreseeable future. unless another world war happens which i highly doubt it will
>wild card
american oversees territory.
City-state with a bright future as a tax haven.
>implying anyone even watns it
Remove Russkies, then give it to Poland
>what is the future of this place?
Independence.