>.22lr doesn't need an air compressor >you can fit more .22lr in a box than you could fit air cannisters in an entire bag for the same amount of shots >heavier pellets are an order of magnitude harder to find >good high power airguns are way more expensive than a low-tier .22lr >high power airguns are rarely semi-auto or even mag-fed >airguns are universally gay
On a scale of couple of thousands rounds I would prefer much more cheap pellets. Also plinking in your backyard without attracting unwanted attention is much more easier win air gun.
It really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to plink for cheap, sure you can get basic b***h .22 cal pellets at about $10-12 for 500 pcs. A little over two cents a shot, that's not bad.
Now if you're talking about something like a .25 cal and you're getting some decent quality pellets? That's a different ballgame. 7-8 cents a pop. Easily higher if you're buying premium pellets. That's on par with .22LR. And it only goes up from there if you're talking about "high power air guns".
>linking in your backyard without attracting unwanted attention is much more easier win air gun.
plinking in your backyard is impossible if you were moronic and fell for the highpower airgun meme. that highpower airgun will go through your fence. it will also be loud, not gunshot loud but loud enough for people to notice.
you want plinking you want a normal 400-800 fps airrifle/pistol
I think the real point is the legality of it. In many places it would be totally legal to shoot the airgun in his backyard. As for the power? Easily addressed. Many airguns have a regulator where you can adjust the power up or down as you please. Or, anon can simply make sure he has a safe backstop. I used to use a cardboard box stuffed with old clothes with a piece of 1" thick hardwood plywood in the back.
>Why not to use a pump?
Do you have any clue how much effort it takes to pump up the high power air rifles like those in your pic? It's an insane amount of effort just for a handful of shots.
Now I like airguns, I have three nice ones:
BSA R10 mk II .22 cal
Ataman M2R .25 cal
FX Impact .22 cal
But generally speaking,
Airguns are fine tools, but of limited utility past varmints or small birds. Even a pcp .25 will barely match .22. A springer/pump in 17/.22 will be lucky to make even 20ft/lbs of energy.
If you want to frick around in the backyard, thats fine but for any SHTF larp, you'd be better buying a few bricks of .22lr
and
>.22lr doesn't need an air compressor >you can fit more .22lr in a box than you could fit air cannisters in an entire bag for the same amount of shots >heavier pellets are an order of magnitude harder to find >good high power airguns are way more expensive than a low-tier .22lr >high power airguns are rarely semi-auto or even mag-fed >airguns are universally gay
are right about their limitations and their disadvantages.
Now I do think that airguns have some advantages: they're quieter than a .22, even compared to things like Colibris. Legally they are not firearms so you can shoot them in places where a .22 would be prohibited.
I mean, if your actual intent was to use the gun for something, sure air guns can be dangerous. But it is really difficult to LARP as a stoic, loner assassin when you have to keep pumping, checking air pressure and inserting pellets into the air rifle. Much easier to buy a cut-down .22lr pistol, affix a silencer and sit in your bedroom swirling whiskey in one hand with a suppressed 22 in the other,
Airguns are fine tools, but of limited utility past varmints or small birds. Even a pcp .25 will barely match .22. A springer/pump in 17/.22 will be lucky to make even 20ft/lbs of energy.
If you want to frick around in the backyard, thats fine but for any shtf larp, you'd be better buying a few bricks of .22lr
>no smoke >no smell of gunpowder >no flash >no sparks >no heat >no ejecting casings >not the same bang >not the same recoil >no air handguns which are even remotely as powerful as any .22LR handgun (also no equivalent for putting in a cylinder for shooting .22WMR for a revolver) >no off the shelf tracer ammo >no options for shooting rat/snake shot >can't go from supersonic to heavy subsonics on the fly >very limited options for heavy projectiles >need to manage projectiles and propellant separately >can't bumpfire airguns >can't get big drums for airguns with any kind of decent power >magazines are fiddlier to reload >more mechanically complex, need to worry about seals >good and powerful automatic pellet guns are quite expensive
I get the appeal with air pellet guns, especially high powered ones, but airguns really aren't 1 to 1 equivalent of .22 Long Rifle, and they never will be.
I think they have their STHF larp appeal in how some tins of thousands of pellets are very inexpensive and take barely any storage space, and how something like a break-barrel rifle with a properly rifled bore can then be, if not used for controlling small pests and foraging for food, then be used for simple recreation, with no added power source.
Think of it a little like the small bore equivalent to the musket.
I agree that it sounds good on paper, but I maintain you'd be better off just buying .22lr.
Springers have mediocre accuracy potential and anything under .25 cal has problems taking small game at any distance further than a backyard. I suppose it'd be better than nothing, but at that point I'd consider a slingshot or blowgun. They'd be just as capable under good conditions as a cheap pellet rifle.
>I suppose it'd be better than nothing, but at that point I'd consider a slingshot or blowgun. They'd be just as capable under good conditions as a cheap pellet rifle.
It's a lot easier to shoot a pellet rifle than a blowgun or slingshot, can't aim those from the shoulder and they have no spin stabilization. I'll take mediocre accuracy with a type of weapon I'm basically already familiar with over who knows what accuracy with weapons I'm not.
>>no air handguns which are even remotely as powerful as any .22LR handgun (also no equivalent for putting in a cylinder for shooting .22WMR for a revolver)
There's a surprising amount of custom big bore airguns (and they're fun!) but they run out of air quickly. >>no options for shooting rat/snake shot
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/currently_available.htm
Not saying that this guy appears to be a reliable source of ratshot for airguns, but it can be done. Also, arrows. >>can't bumpfire airguns
Don't need to, when you can get full auto.
Still, most of your points are valid. In a free country, you can own both, so why limit yourself to only one or the other?
Matching even standard velocity .22lr is past the point of diminishing returns for airguns. All they're good for once you start getting to those energy levels is circumventing laws about where you can shoot, silencers, or how weak of a gun you can hunt with if you want more of a challenge. >due to velocity and aerodynamic limitations, trajectory will always be worse than .22lr even with the most powerful options, most PCP guns can't go supersonic and the ones that can can only do so with pellets that have similar or worse aerodynamics than a round ball >airguns that can match .22lr energy wise are .357 or larger, unless you're going for a .30 caliber gun with a 27" barrel or longer, or AirForce's .25 offering with its 34" barrel >you're looking at close to $1.5k or more for the guns + support hardware, which assuming you're casting your own bullets with lead at the very cheap price of $1/lb for 1c/shot with .357 round ball it will still take ~20k rounds or more to break even vs .22lr at current prices and a $300 .22 rifle >you can't reasonably fill big bore airguns with a hand pump due to the short duty cycle of the pumps (5 minutes of pumping, 15 minutes of cooling), you can easily have to wait 30 minutes or more between shot strings if manually pumping >you get about 15 shots per fill with something that can match .22lr, or less if you're concerned with accuracy as normal shots per fill numbers allow for much more velocity deviation than you'd find in bulk .22lr, I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
and to add for anyone thinking about something larger than .22lr >only absolute biggest and most powerful of the big bore airguns on the market can pull ahead of the performance that a cap and ball revolver can achieve with a normal handgun length barrel, all while getting maybe 5 rounds per fill
>I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
Yeah, this is common practice in benchrest airgun shooting.
>In a free country, you can own both, so why limit yourself to only one or the other?
You get me. We need to kill the NFA, so that we can put an auto-sear in something like this and fill it up with green tracers.
a .22 rifle is more practical for long term use. airguns are finnicky and are prone to more breakages than a rifle for the same price. break action airguns are also extremely prone to harmonics inaccuracy unless you specifically use an artillery grip, which further limits their effectiveness against a standard rifle.
airguns are fun and good for killing varmint but they're weaker than a rifle and are prone to down time for maintenance unlike real rifles because they rely on compressed air
convenience is the main factor
speaking of convenience, I bought the new sodastream water carbonator and it seems that the new quick-release valves on their 250 bar 60L tanks are functionally identical to the PCP rifle valves
if there would be a rifle which accepts sodastream cans - I'm buying it
Matching even standard velocity .22lr is past the point of diminishing returns for airguns. All they're good for once you start getting to those energy levels is circumventing laws about where you can shoot, silencers, or how weak of a gun you can hunt with if you want more of a challenge. >due to velocity and aerodynamic limitations, trajectory will always be worse than .22lr even with the most powerful options, most PCP guns can't go supersonic and the ones that can can only do so with pellets that have similar or worse aerodynamics than a round ball >airguns that can match .22lr energy wise are .357 or larger, unless you're going for a .30 caliber gun with a 27" barrel or longer, or AirForce's .25 offering with its 34" barrel >you're looking at close to $1.5k or more for the guns + support hardware, which assuming you're casting your own bullets with lead at the very cheap price of $1/lb for 1c/shot with .357 round ball it will still take ~20k rounds or more to break even vs .22lr at current prices and a $300 .22 rifle >you can't reasonably fill big bore airguns with a hand pump due to the short duty cycle of the pumps (5 minutes of pumping, 15 minutes of cooling), you can easily have to wait 30 minutes or more between shot strings if manually pumping >you get about 15 shots per fill with something that can match .22lr, or less if you're concerned with accuracy as normal shots per fill numbers allow for much more velocity deviation than you'd find in bulk .22lr, I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
and to add for anyone thinking about something larger than .22lr >only absolute biggest and most powerful of the big bore airguns on the market can pull ahead of the performance that a cap and ball revolver can achieve with a normal handgun length barrel, all while getting maybe 5 rounds per fill
Crossbows are really a much better firearm alternative if a break barrel or multi pump airgun isn't powerful enough for you, since they actually bring some of their own advantages to the table rather than being worse in every way and so much more expensive that you'll likely never see the savings from the lower cost per round offset what you paid for the gun.
>no propellant, just air from a hand pump or compressor if you're not using a springer >can cast your own ammo >different varieties of pellets for target/hunting >PCP airguns can easily exceed .22lr energy and penetration
a weihrauch HW97K and some extra springs, seals, and casting equipment would last you way longer than a brick of .22lr in whatever habbening you all keep imagining, enjoy not being able to hunt without attracting unwanted attention
>>PCP airguns can easily exceed .22lr energy
Very very few of them do. And those which do are quite impractical in a SHTF situation was
Matching even standard velocity .22lr is past the point of diminishing returns for airguns. All they're good for once you start getting to those energy levels is circumventing laws about where you can shoot, silencers, or how weak of a gun you can hunt with if you want more of a challenge. >due to velocity and aerodynamic limitations, trajectory will always be worse than .22lr even with the most powerful options, most PCP guns can't go supersonic and the ones that can can only do so with pellets that have similar or worse aerodynamics than a round ball >airguns that can match .22lr energy wise are .357 or larger, unless you're going for a .30 caliber gun with a 27" barrel or longer, or AirForce's .25 offering with its 34" barrel >you're looking at close to $1.5k or more for the guns + support hardware, which assuming you're casting your own bullets with lead at the very cheap price of $1/lb for 1c/shot with .357 round ball it will still take ~20k rounds or more to break even vs .22lr at current prices and a $300 .22 rifle >you can't reasonably fill big bore airguns with a hand pump due to the short duty cycle of the pumps (5 minutes of pumping, 15 minutes of cooling), you can easily have to wait 30 minutes or more between shot strings if manually pumping >you get about 15 shots per fill with something that can match .22lr, or less if you're concerned with accuracy as normal shots per fill numbers allow for much more velocity deviation than you'd find in bulk .22lr, I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
and to add for anyone thinking about something larger than .22lr >only absolute biggest and most powerful of the big bore airguns on the market can pull ahead of the performance that a cap and ball revolver can achieve with a normal handgun length barrel, all while getting maybe 5 rounds per fill
explains.
Even filling those tanks with a compressor kinda sucks. Filling them quickly requires a serious compressor, like that used for filling scuba tanks, costing thousands of $$$. You can get hobbyist compressors which are merely several hundred dollars but those also have short duty cycles and they sloooooow.
I'm not knocking airguns here, just pointing out that you really are hitting diminishing returns before matching 22LR.
>a weihrauch HW97K
Has half the muzzle energy of CCI's .22 CB loads, and does a worse job of carrying that energy down range. It will still work for a lot of the practical tasks that people use .22lr for, but it in no way offers comparable performance to .22lr
>muh PCP
22lr bullet mass is about 3-4x 22 pellet mass, so kinetic energy scales accordingly. Even for comparable muzzle velocity, KE for 22lr is vastly greater. 22 pellets are cheaper and less effective.
I watched a YouTube video yesterday where some kid was shooting 40gr 22 cal slugs out of his marauder at 900fps. He changed some valve and made a bigger air transfer port. You get less shots per fill but the energy is very close to 22lr standard velocity.
Muzzle energy
22 lr with 100fpe will shoot through one 2x4, a regular pcp with 45fpe will also penetrate through one 2x4. 22 lr will keep more energy long range but within a 50 yard range they both should have the same effect. I think but maybe I'm wrong.
https://i.imgur.com/8xUv1uu.jpg
I own Benjamin bulldog .357, it's 5 round magazine fed, and air reservoir lasts for 15 shots. Pumping it to 300bars takes 20 minutes, ait compressor does it in 3.
Pellets are 9mm, have slugs and normal rounds. Energy at most positive scenario is around 500J if I'm not mistaken, I saw people hunting small-mid game with them.
Ultra cheap to shoot, silent, i have form to cast my own bullets and tumbler to polish them, it's basically self-sufficient.
Only problem was with paperwork, it's considered firearm where I live, so I had to do normal tests, moth medical and practical to get perm on it, was worth it.
Cool gun. The only thing that I'm concerned about PCP guns is they might leak air.
>Why even bother buying a .22lr gun if there are powerful air rifles in .22 or .25 cal and dirt cheap pellets?
You need an actual high power pump, not just like a hand pump or even regular compressor, for more then a few shots. Like something used to fill SCUBA tanks. That's not unobtanium or anything and obviously is much easier and cheaper to do then making your own powder but it's an issue for some people. There is a weight penalty for it all, you can't carry nearly as many shots, etc.
Don't get me wrong, large bore airguns are cool, powerful tools. I've killed deer with them. They're quiet, and can be made quieter with an integral suppressor, all without any paperwork or anything because they aren't "firearms" per the National Firearms Act. I do think /k/ ignores crossbows and airguns more then it should, both are interesting additions to one's arsenal with interesting usage. And I sure as frick would not want to be up against some dude with NVG and a good xbow at night.
But I don't think they're a replacement for a good 22 either, they're complementary.
Nothing like a pcp airgun, but I enjoy my 100 dollar .22 nitro piston with stock irons. 14.3gr pellets at 730 to 750 fps, it complements my actual guns well for the backyard up to squirrel and rabbits. Christ is King.
Springers and gas piston guns aren't as powerful as a PCP and you can't shoot them as quickly either, but they are nice in that there's zero support equipment needed. It's nice not to have to worry about compressors, air tanks, etc.
Prove it.
I'm not that anon but go look up the kind of group sizes that competitive airgun shooters get. A high end competition airgun beats a high end competition .22LR. Now I doubt a $1000 airgun is going to do so like the other anon suggested. Now something like an Anschutz 9015, Walther LG400, Feinwerkbau FWB 800...that's gonna be a different ballgame.
>Why even bother buying a .22lr gun if there are powerful air rifles in .22 or .25 cal and dirt cheap pellets?
I haven't seen credible evidence that they can match the accuracy of my PRS trainer tikka build. Once they can and the projectiles are less than 4cpr then sure. I'm going to have to spend $5k+ on the project all in so it needs to be exceptional before I'll jump in.
I don't belive you without evidence. I've been following snipershide threads on airguns for a while and they have trouble consistently beating 3/4moa at 50m. Some of their Rim-X, Vudoo, Anschutz rifles reliably hold 1/2moa at 50m and I'd rather spend lots of money going that route than an airgun that suffers with being finicky. I see people post excellent airgun groups occasionally but I don't see people post 5+ groups in a row.
I'm not that anon, but if you want to see the best that airguns can offer, it's not at Snipershide. Go find where the 10m Olympic competitors hang out.
Everyone knows you don't have to stick with 22 for air guns right? Picture related, can fire .510 caliber 250-620 grain projectiles and reach up to 800 ft-lbs energy. That's a solid 4x what even really fast 22lr can do.
Granted, you only get 4 shots at that power and pellets that size aren't as cheap either. Not something I'd choose to buy myself. But earlier anons saying air guns can be powerful aren't wrong, and it's pretty fricking fun to shoot one a few times. Could definitely hunt with it within 100yd.
I own Benjamin bulldog .357, it's 5 round magazine fed, and air reservoir lasts for 15 shots. Pumping it to 300bars takes 20 minutes, ait compressor does it in 3.
Pellets are 9mm, have slugs and normal rounds. Energy at most positive scenario is around 500J if I'm not mistaken, I saw people hunting small-mid game with them.
Ultra cheap to shoot, silent, i have form to cast my own bullets and tumbler to polish them, it's basically self-sufficient.
Only problem was with paperwork, it's considered firearm where I live, so I had to do normal tests, moth medical and practical to get perm on it, was worth it.
>Why even bother buying a .22lr 'gun'
ftfy
>.22lr doesn't need an air compressor
>you can fit more .22lr in a box than you could fit air cannisters in an entire bag for the same amount of shots
>heavier pellets are an order of magnitude harder to find
>good high power airguns are way more expensive than a low-tier .22lr
>high power airguns are rarely semi-auto or even mag-fed
>airguns are universally gay
Why not to use a pump? The price of a rifle will be compensated by the price of an ammo.
If you couldn't afford a box of .22 I have a bad news for you
On a scale of couple of thousands rounds I would prefer much more cheap pellets. Also plinking in your backyard without attracting unwanted attention is much more easier win air gun.
It really depends on what your goals are. If you just want to plink for cheap, sure you can get basic b***h .22 cal pellets at about $10-12 for 500 pcs. A little over two cents a shot, that's not bad.
Now if you're talking about something like a .25 cal and you're getting some decent quality pellets? That's a different ballgame. 7-8 cents a pop. Easily higher if you're buying premium pellets. That's on par with .22LR. And it only goes up from there if you're talking about "high power air guns".
>linking in your backyard without attracting unwanted attention is much more easier win air gun.
plinking in your backyard is impossible if you were moronic and fell for the highpower airgun meme. that highpower airgun will go through your fence. it will also be loud, not gunshot loud but loud enough for people to notice.
you want plinking you want a normal 400-800 fps airrifle/pistol
I think the real point is the legality of it. In many places it would be totally legal to shoot the airgun in his backyard. As for the power? Easily addressed. Many airguns have a regulator where you can adjust the power up or down as you please. Or, anon can simply make sure he has a safe backstop. I used to use a cardboard box stuffed with old clothes with a piece of 1" thick hardwood plywood in the back.
>Why not to use a pump?
Do you have any clue how much effort it takes to pump up the high power air rifles like those in your pic? It's an insane amount of effort just for a handful of shots.
Now I like airguns, I have three nice ones:
BSA R10 mk II .22 cal
Ataman M2R .25 cal
FX Impact .22 cal
But generally speaking,
and
are right about their limitations and their disadvantages.
Now I do think that airguns have some advantages: they're quieter than a .22, even compared to things like Colibris. Legally they are not firearms so you can shoot them in places where a .22 would be prohibited.
I mean, if your actual intent was to use the gun for something, sure air guns can be dangerous. But it is really difficult to LARP as a stoic, loner assassin when you have to keep pumping, checking air pressure and inserting pellets into the air rifle. Much easier to buy a cut-down .22lr pistol, affix a silencer and sit in your bedroom swirling whiskey in one hand with a suppressed 22 in the other,
>why even bother buying a combustion engine vehicle when there are more powerful ev's in both car and truck forms and dirt cheap electricity?
Airguns are fine tools, but of limited utility past varmints or small birds. Even a pcp .25 will barely match .22. A springer/pump in 17/.22 will be lucky to make even 20ft/lbs of energy.
If you want to frick around in the backyard, thats fine but for any shtf larp, you'd be better buying a few bricks of .22lr
>no smoke
>no smell of gunpowder
>no flash
>no sparks
>no heat
>no ejecting casings
>not the same bang
>not the same recoil
>no air handguns which are even remotely as powerful as any .22LR handgun (also no equivalent for putting in a cylinder for shooting .22WMR for a revolver)
>no off the shelf tracer ammo
>no options for shooting rat/snake shot
>can't go from supersonic to heavy subsonics on the fly
>very limited options for heavy projectiles
>need to manage projectiles and propellant separately
>can't bumpfire airguns
>can't get big drums for airguns with any kind of decent power
>magazines are fiddlier to reload
>more mechanically complex, need to worry about seals
>good and powerful automatic pellet guns are quite expensive
I get the appeal with air pellet guns, especially high powered ones, but airguns really aren't 1 to 1 equivalent of .22 Long Rifle, and they never will be.
I think they have their STHF larp appeal in how some tins of thousands of pellets are very inexpensive and take barely any storage space, and how something like a break-barrel rifle with a properly rifled bore can then be, if not used for controlling small pests and foraging for food, then be used for simple recreation, with no added power source.
Think of it a little like the small bore equivalent to the musket.
I agree that it sounds good on paper, but I maintain you'd be better off just buying .22lr.
Springers have mediocre accuracy potential and anything under .25 cal has problems taking small game at any distance further than a backyard. I suppose it'd be better than nothing, but at that point I'd consider a slingshot or blowgun. They'd be just as capable under good conditions as a cheap pellet rifle.
>I suppose it'd be better than nothing, but at that point I'd consider a slingshot or blowgun. They'd be just as capable under good conditions as a cheap pellet rifle.
It's a lot easier to shoot a pellet rifle than a blowgun or slingshot, can't aim those from the shoulder and they have no spin stabilization. I'll take mediocre accuracy with a type of weapon I'm basically already familiar with over who knows what accuracy with weapons I'm not.
>>no air handguns which are even remotely as powerful as any .22LR handgun (also no equivalent for putting in a cylinder for shooting .22WMR for a revolver)
There's a surprising amount of custom big bore airguns (and they're fun!) but they run out of air quickly.
>>no options for shooting rat/snake shot
http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/currently_available.htm
Not saying that this guy appears to be a reliable source of ratshot for airguns, but it can be done. Also, arrows.
>>can't bumpfire airguns
Don't need to, when you can get full auto.
Still, most of your points are valid. In a free country, you can own both, so why limit yourself to only one or the other?
>I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
Yeah, this is common practice in benchrest airgun shooting.
>In a free country, you can own both, so why limit yourself to only one or the other?
You get me. We need to kill the NFA, so that we can put an auto-sear in something like this and fill it up with green tracers.
a .22 rifle is more practical for long term use. airguns are finnicky and are prone to more breakages than a rifle for the same price. break action airguns are also extremely prone to harmonics inaccuracy unless you specifically use an artillery grip, which further limits their effectiveness against a standard rifle.
airguns are fun and good for killing varmint but they're weaker than a rifle and are prone to down time for maintenance unlike real rifles because they rely on compressed air
convenience is the main factor
speaking of convenience, I bought the new sodastream water carbonator and it seems that the new quick-release valves on their 250 bar 60L tanks are functionally identical to the PCP rifle valves
if there would be a rifle which accepts sodastream cans - I'm buying it
Matching even standard velocity .22lr is past the point of diminishing returns for airguns. All they're good for once you start getting to those energy levels is circumventing laws about where you can shoot, silencers, or how weak of a gun you can hunt with if you want more of a challenge.
>due to velocity and aerodynamic limitations, trajectory will always be worse than .22lr even with the most powerful options, most PCP guns can't go supersonic and the ones that can can only do so with pellets that have similar or worse aerodynamics than a round ball
>airguns that can match .22lr energy wise are .357 or larger, unless you're going for a .30 caliber gun with a 27" barrel or longer, or AirForce's .25 offering with its 34" barrel
>you're looking at close to $1.5k or more for the guns + support hardware, which assuming you're casting your own bullets with lead at the very cheap price of $1/lb for 1c/shot with .357 round ball it will still take ~20k rounds or more to break even vs .22lr at current prices and a $300 .22 rifle
>you can't reasonably fill big bore airguns with a hand pump due to the short duty cycle of the pumps (5 minutes of pumping, 15 minutes of cooling), you can easily have to wait 30 minutes or more between shot strings if manually pumping
>you get about 15 shots per fill with something that can match .22lr, or less if you're concerned with accuracy as normal shots per fill numbers allow for much more velocity deviation than you'd find in bulk .22lr, I've heard people who want accuracy on longer shot strings with big bore guns will shoot with an umbilical to a larger SCUBA tank
and to add for anyone thinking about something larger than .22lr
>only absolute biggest and most powerful of the big bore airguns on the market can pull ahead of the performance that a cap and ball revolver can achieve with a normal handgun length barrel, all while getting maybe 5 rounds per fill
Crossbows are really a much better firearm alternative if a break barrel or multi pump airgun isn't powerful enough for you, since they actually bring some of their own advantages to the table rather than being worse in every way and so much more expensive that you'll likely never see the savings from the lower cost per round offset what you paid for the gun.
>no propellant, just air from a hand pump or compressor if you're not using a springer
>can cast your own ammo
>different varieties of pellets for target/hunting
>PCP airguns can easily exceed .22lr energy and penetration
a weihrauch HW97K and some extra springs, seals, and casting equipment would last you way longer than a brick of .22lr in whatever habbening you all keep imagining, enjoy not being able to hunt without attracting unwanted attention
>>PCP airguns can easily exceed .22lr energy
Very very few of them do. And those which do are quite impractical in a SHTF situation was
explains.
Even filling those tanks with a compressor kinda sucks. Filling them quickly requires a serious compressor, like that used for filling scuba tanks, costing thousands of $$$. You can get hobbyist compressors which are merely several hundred dollars but those also have short duty cycles and they sloooooow.
I'm not knocking airguns here, just pointing out that you really are hitting diminishing returns before matching 22LR.
>a weihrauch HW97K
Has half the muzzle energy of CCI's .22 CB loads, and does a worse job of carrying that energy down range. It will still work for a lot of the practical tasks that people use .22lr for, but it in no way offers comparable performance to .22lr
>HW97K and some extra springs
>extra springs
>springs
HW97 is a gas piston gun.
>muh PCP
22lr bullet mass is about 3-4x 22 pellet mass, so kinetic energy scales accordingly. Even for comparable muzzle velocity, KE for 22lr is vastly greater. 22 pellets are cheaper and less effective.
I watched a YouTube video yesterday where some kid was shooting 40gr 22 cal slugs out of his marauder at 900fps. He changed some valve and made a bigger air transfer port. You get less shots per fill but the energy is very close to 22lr standard velocity.
Muzzle energy
22 lr with 100fpe will shoot through one 2x4, a regular pcp with 45fpe will also penetrate through one 2x4. 22 lr will keep more energy long range but within a 50 yard range they both should have the same effect. I think but maybe I'm wrong.
Cool gun. The only thing that I'm concerned about PCP guns is they might leak air.
I'm not sure what you mean anon, I have a powerful air rifle in .22 that fires dirt cheap .22lr cartridges.
>leaks air when you sleep
>Why even bother buying a .22lr gun if there are powerful air rifles in .22 or .25 cal and dirt cheap pellets?
You need an actual high power pump, not just like a hand pump or even regular compressor, for more then a few shots. Like something used to fill SCUBA tanks. That's not unobtanium or anything and obviously is much easier and cheaper to do then making your own powder but it's an issue for some people. There is a weight penalty for it all, you can't carry nearly as many shots, etc.
Don't get me wrong, large bore airguns are cool, powerful tools. I've killed deer with them. They're quiet, and can be made quieter with an integral suppressor, all without any paperwork or anything because they aren't "firearms" per the National Firearms Act. I do think /k/ ignores crossbows and airguns more then it should, both are interesting additions to one's arsenal with interesting usage. And I sure as frick would not want to be up against some dude with NVG and a good xbow at night.
But I don't think they're a replacement for a good 22 either, they're complementary.
Nothing like a pcp airgun, but I enjoy my 100 dollar .22 nitro piston with stock irons. 14.3gr pellets at 730 to 750 fps, it complements my actual guns well for the backyard up to squirrel and rabbits. Christ is King.
That's a pretty good energy for a break barrel. I'm thinking about getting crosman valiant in 22. I like the wood stock on it and it has irons.
Mine is the crosman vantage
Springers and gas piston guns aren't as powerful as a PCP and you can't shoot them as quickly either, but they are nice in that there's zero support equipment needed. It's nice not to have to worry about compressors, air tanks, etc.
I'm not that anon but go look up the kind of group sizes that competitive airgun shooters get. A high end competition airgun beats a high end competition .22LR. Now I doubt a $1000 airgun is going to do so like the other anon suggested. Now something like an Anschutz 9015, Walther LG400, Feinwerkbau FWB 800...that's gonna be a different ballgame.
>Why even bother buying a .22lr gun if there are powerful air rifles in .22 or .25 cal and dirt cheap pellets?
I haven't seen credible evidence that they can match the accuracy of my PRS trainer tikka build. Once they can and the projectiles are less than 4cpr then sure. I'm going to have to spend $5k+ on the project all in so it needs to be exceptional before I'll jump in.
If you spend $1000gun + $400compressor it will match your Tikka.
Prove it.
They make some 400$ airguns that will outshoot your fancy Tikka. Just need to find the right ammo and tune it a little bit.
I don't belive you without evidence. I've been following snipershide threads on airguns for a while and they have trouble consistently beating 3/4moa at 50m. Some of their Rim-X, Vudoo, Anschutz rifles reliably hold 1/2moa at 50m and I'd rather spend lots of money going that route than an airgun that suffers with being finicky. I see people post excellent airgun groups occasionally but I don't see people post 5+ groups in a row.
I'm not that anon, but if you want to see the best that airguns can offer, it's not at Snipershide. Go find where the 10m Olympic competitors hang out.
Has anybody fended of attackers with an airgun? would love to see that footage
you should have picked the fight against centerfires, you don't really win on cheapness against a 22lr carbine
Everyone knows you don't have to stick with 22 for air guns right? Picture related, can fire .510 caliber 250-620 grain projectiles and reach up to 800 ft-lbs energy. That's a solid 4x what even really fast 22lr can do.
Granted, you only get 4 shots at that power and pellets that size aren't as cheap either. Not something I'd choose to buy myself. But earlier anons saying air guns can be powerful aren't wrong, and it's pretty fricking fun to shoot one a few times. Could definitely hunt with it within 100yd.
I own Benjamin bulldog .357, it's 5 round magazine fed, and air reservoir lasts for 15 shots. Pumping it to 300bars takes 20 minutes, ait compressor does it in 3.
Pellets are 9mm, have slugs and normal rounds. Energy at most positive scenario is around 500J if I'm not mistaken, I saw people hunting small-mid game with them.
Ultra cheap to shoot, silent, i have form to cast my own bullets and tumbler to polish them, it's basically self-sufficient.
Only problem was with paperwork, it's considered firearm where I live, so I had to do normal tests, moth medical and practical to get perm on it, was worth it.