i dont like it aesthetically, fuselage of a mig 21 but mig 15 bis wings. i think it was an air to ground aircraft but has the fuselage of a fast supersonic ac. it looks deformed and ugly
Yeah, the F-15/F-16 ratio is pretty much entirely from the Syrian air force getting massacred by the IDF. But not only was it not a fair fight (Syrian equipment was outdated) but the israelites have always held significantly better ratios than Americans using their hardware, or other allies.
The F-14 was downed by MiGs, including a MiG-21, showing no hardware advantage can overcome a bad pilot versus a good one.
Some Iraqi and Vietnamese aces pulled of some impressive shit in MiG fighters.
Also, the F-5 isn't included, which has a not wonderful record. Iraqi pilots had good success vs those and F-4s.
Nor is the F-100 series included, which would shift the image considerably.
The F-104 killed more NATO pilots than any MiG or Su though, lol.
Monkey Model theory has been thoroughly disproven by the last couple years of war in Ukraine. Russia is Nigeria with snow and their combat performance reflects that.
Egyptians notoriously were privately celebrating Soviet pilots getting rekt at Rimon 20 since they were making all the basic mistakes Egypt long learnt from yet were still acting as if they were superior.
Soviets shot down 1.5 F-4s for no losses a few days after Ramon 20, the main problem with the Syrians is for all of their combat experience they never got any better.
Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants. Older shitty radar that couldn't multi lock or even track more than 3 or 4 targets and absolutely critical, no radar warning receivers. Arab pilots weren't dumb they just had no idea they were dead until it was too late. The MLD vs all earlier versions were completely different planes. IRST,full countermeasures, better radar and RWR.
>e MLD vs all earlier versions were completely different planes. IRST,full countermeasures, better radar and RWR. >IRST
soviet IRST is useless
>RWR
soviet RWR is useless
>full countermeasures
useless without RWR
>better radar
It was ok, but dont expect ok fighter radar of that time provide enough situational awareness without AWACs and its useless when you are dead
>Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants
While MiG-23 export versions were obviously worse, the numbers are inflated a bit by a lot of the Arab MiG-23s being ground attack (cheapo MiG-27s) versions without a2a radars. Not that countings just MiG-23Ms would give a positive kill rate though.
Why did the US never pay much attention to long-range A2A missiles? The Phoenix is the only one I can think of, meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them.
>meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them
R-40, R-33, and I guess you can count R-27ER are really the extent of the ones they had back then, and two of them were only on specialized interceptors
since the US was able to put the AMRAAM on basically everything after 1991 I guess it was good enough until the last decade or so
>The Phoenix is the only one I can think of, meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them.
US medium-range missiles were typically longer ranged than soviet telephone-pole sized ones. The reason for such bloat in soviet missiles is their inability to make good seekers and engines, resulting in the frickhuge size. Not that it helped much, soviet radar guided missiles were incredible garbage and none of them worked better than US sparrows did in Vietnam, with the exception of the R-40RD, which had an inverse monopulse seeker and worked somewhat okay, even if this otherwise 2x as big missiles had less range(not to mention agility) than the contemporary Sparrow.
Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants. Older shitty radar that couldn't multi lock or even track more than 3 or 4 targets and absolutely critical, no radar warning receivers. Arab pilots weren't dumb they just had no idea they were dead until it was too late. The MLD vs all earlier versions were completely different planes. IRST,full countermeasures, better radar and RWR.
>Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants
Mig-23 was an all round disaster. The soviet air force wanted to dump it entirely in favor of just making more Mig-21's but got forced it onto them by the soviet MIC. >Older shitty radar that couldn't multi lock or even track more than 3 or 4 targets
No soviet radar except the one on the Mig-31 could track multiple targets while locked onto something, in other words had track while scan. Mig-23 didn't have look-down shoot down capability either, even a rudimentary one that hardly ever worked like the one on the Mig-29.
Mig-23MLD is the only one that didn't actively try to kill its pilots by going into unrecoverable deathspins.
the MLD is also literally one month older than the Su-27's service entry date so it's not exactly impressive
You're confusing it with the Mig-29. Su-27 was adopted officially in 1985 so a few years older, if you can consider a 4th gen without a working radar fit for service.
lmao >The Soviets supplied the communist government of Angola with 12 Su-20Ms in 1982 or 1983, which formed the basis of the 15th FS. The squadron suffered a swift loss of at least six aircraft – most in mishaps – by 1985, and three more by 1988, and had only two aircraft left when it was reinforced with batch of 14 Su-22M-4Ks and two Su-22UM-3Ks in 1989–90
I used to watch a lot of history channel shows growing up, they liked to say good things about adversary aircraft to explain the moggings. They never said anything good about the Su-22. Perfo
>jamie, pull up that meme
i dont like it aesthetically, fuselage of a mig 21 but mig 15 bis wings. i think it was an air to ground aircraft but has the fuselage of a fast supersonic ac. it looks deformed and ugly
>how did it perform?
Like shit.
>tfw you will never conduct low level tactical nuclear strikes during the invasion of Denmark
Su-17 undefeated? It's not on the picture.
No
Not really fair comparison because many of the Soviet planes were flown by arabs
Yeah, the F-15/F-16 ratio is pretty much entirely from the Syrian air force getting massacred by the IDF. But not only was it not a fair fight (Syrian equipment was outdated) but the israelites have always held significantly better ratios than Americans using their hardware, or other allies.
The F-14 was downed by MiGs, including a MiG-21, showing no hardware advantage can overcome a bad pilot versus a good one.
Some Iraqi and Vietnamese aces pulled of some impressive shit in MiG fighters.
Also, the F-5 isn't included, which has a not wonderful record. Iraqi pilots had good success vs those and F-4s.
Nor is the F-100 series included, which would shift the image considerably.
The F-104 killed more NATO pilots than any MiG or Su though, lol.
Almost all of the F-14 kills are from Iranian pilots.
>Iraqi pilots had good success vs those and F-4s.
Eyerack....Eyerann...whats the difference?
Monkey Model theory has been thoroughly disproven by the last couple years of war in Ukraine. Russia is Nigeria with snow and their combat performance reflects that.
Arabs were and still are better pilots.
Egyptians notoriously were privately celebrating Soviet pilots getting rekt at Rimon 20 since they were making all the basic mistakes Egypt long learnt from yet were still acting as if they were superior.
>muh arab pilot cope
yeah
>mig-21MFs
>MFs
They had to laugh a little bit.
Arab air crew are equal in talent to Russian air crew, and this is a well-understood fact.
See
>Not really fair comparison because many of the Soviet planes were flown by arabs
Im not convinced anymore that Soviet pilots were much better
Soviets shot down 1.5 F-4s for no losses a few days after Ramon 20, the main problem with the Syrians is for all of their combat experience they never got any better.
Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants. Older shitty radar that couldn't multi lock or even track more than 3 or 4 targets and absolutely critical, no radar warning receivers. Arab pilots weren't dumb they just had no idea they were dead until it was too late. The MLD vs all earlier versions were completely different planes. IRST,full countermeasures, better radar and RWR.
>e MLD vs all earlier versions were completely different planes. IRST,full countermeasures, better radar and RWR.
>IRST
soviet IRST is useless
>RWR
soviet RWR is useless
>full countermeasures
useless without RWR
>better radar
It was ok, but dont expect ok fighter radar of that time provide enough situational awareness without AWACs and its useless when you are dead
the MLD is also literally one month older than the Su-27's service entry date so it's not exactly impressive
>Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants
While MiG-23 export versions were obviously worse, the numbers are inflated a bit by a lot of the Arab MiG-23s being ground attack (cheapo MiG-27s) versions without a2a radars. Not that countings just MiG-23Ms would give a positive kill rate though.
Why did the US never pay much attention to long-range A2A missiles? The Phoenix is the only one I can think of, meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them.
>meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them
R-40, R-33, and I guess you can count R-27ER are really the extent of the ones they had back then, and two of them were only on specialized interceptors
since the US was able to put the AMRAAM on basically everything after 1991 I guess it was good enough until the last decade or so
>The Phoenix is the only one I can think of, meanwhile the Soviets started yeeting telephione-pole sized missiles from fighters in the '70s and kept developing them.
US medium-range missiles were typically longer ranged than soviet telephone-pole sized ones. The reason for such bloat in soviet missiles is their inability to make good seekers and engines, resulting in the frickhuge size. Not that it helped much, soviet radar guided missiles were incredible garbage and none of them worked better than US sparrows did in Vietnam, with the exception of the R-40RD, which had an inverse monopulse seeker and worked somewhat okay, even if this otherwise 2x as big missiles had less range(not to mention agility) than the contemporary Sparrow.
>Those mig-23 numbers are so bad because of the export variants
Mig-23 was an all round disaster. The soviet air force wanted to dump it entirely in favor of just making more Mig-21's but got forced it onto them by the soviet MIC.
>Older shitty radar that couldn't multi lock or even track more than 3 or 4 targets
No soviet radar except the one on the Mig-31 could track multiple targets while locked onto something, in other words had track while scan. Mig-23 didn't have look-down shoot down capability either, even a rudimentary one that hardly ever worked like the one on the Mig-29.
Mig-23MLD is the only one that didn't actively try to kill its pilots by going into unrecoverable deathspins.
You're confusing it with the Mig-29. Su-27 was adopted officially in 1985 so a few years older, if you can consider a 4th gen without a working radar fit for service.
high speed and low visibility from wienerpit...
seems like ideal CAS plane
fewer accidents than F-35 for sure.
lmao
>The Soviets supplied the communist government of Angola with 12 Su-20Ms in 1982 or 1983, which formed the basis of the 15th FS. The squadron suffered a swift loss of at least six aircraft – most in mishaps – by 1985, and three more by 1988, and had only two aircraft left when it was reinforced with batch of 14 Su-22M-4Ks and two Su-22UM-3Ks in 1989–90
I like how it has the Purina dog chow logo all over it.
The only movie it’s ever been in was XXX with Vin Diesel
I used to watch a lot of history channel shows growing up, they liked to say good things about adversary aircraft to explain the moggings. They never said anything good about the Su-22. Perfo