Old Airfcraft in Ukraine

We've all seen the T-55s and T-62s fighting in Ukraine, but what about old aircraft? Could Ukraine make use of F-4s or MIG-21s? Would anyone be able to send that sort of stuff?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Old planes get more expensive to operate as time goes on, not less. Its a different financial calculation compared to almost everything else.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, but there's a few countries still flying MIG-21s and F-4s. This seems like the perfect opportunity to offload them. Ukraine is in dire need of air defenses right now.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/Uqi7FQm.jpg

        We've all seen the T-55s and T-62s fighting in Ukraine, but what about old aircraft? Could Ukraine make use of F-4s or MIG-21s? Would anyone be able to send that sort of stuff?

        Romania offered their MiG-21 to Ukraine but Ukraine said no thanks.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Did they? I didn't see that they did that at all.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It's possible, Turkey still operates F-4s and they've been fairly generous. It isn't a good idea though.
        The issue is that airframes aren't actually the bottleneck here, it's trained pilots. I dare say it would probably be easier for Ukraine to get 100 F-16s than to train 100 F-16-rated pilots. They're a valuable commodity, and pissing them away in a 60-year-old jet in an airspace as hot as this is not a great idea. The risk/return is all wrong, you'd be spending a lot of effort for very little gain, only way I could see any kind of return of investment is if you teach some poor sap TDF how to turn it on and fly basic maneuvers, then send them off as Missile-bait

        >Ukraine is in dire need of air defenses right now.
        The best way to do that is to stay the course we've been traveling since the start, and give them more MANPADS, SAMs and SPAAGs. It's how Ukraine has been denying the Russians of Air Superiority and based on the fact the Russians can't into SEAD the only way that'll change is if they run out of missiles.
        Now, if we're talking about giving the Ukrainians the capability to establish air superiority, that's a different equation entirely.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          ^This guy gets it. The wrong bird is a horrendous resource sink. Phantoms got used up as QF-4s because they required absurd amounts of maintenance and maintainers. (Fmr. 328X0 at Moody on E-models here.) Add the staggering resources required for pilots and WSO/RIO/whatever your force calls backseaters and the elderly avionics and radar package and it's not worth the bother.

          Noobs make the Mike Sparks autismistake of seeing every winged object as equivalent to every other winged object.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Airframes wear out, in a way that a tank chassis basically just won't.
    And when an old and worn out tank breaks down, well, short of enemy action it's likely just gonna sit there until you tow it off for repairs. An aircraft turns into a crater.
    So there are some rather harsh restrictions on how old and worn stuff you can make useful in the air that don't exist for ground vehicles. And the few people still flying things like Mig-21 or F-4 tend to do it because they really want the capability, but can't afford anything new. So they're not likely to just give them away.
    Aircraft also have a much larger logistical footprint than ground vehicles, so with just a few old aircraft there's the question if Ukraine will consider the effort worth the bother as well, even if the aircraft come effectively free.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >An aircraft turns into a crater.
      Sounds like a plan. Don't think there are many Tu-141s left.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Give one guy an M14 and another a modern infantry rifle and there'll be a difference, but hardly an insurmountable one, the more experienced guy will probably win. Do the same with fighter jets and that gap in weapon capabilities is going to be so large that even if the guy in the up-to-date MiG-31 with modern missiles is a rookie, the ace in a MiG-21 will find it nearly impossible to come out on top in any reason engagement. The difference in platform capability is just too wide.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      But Russia's fielding plenty of old junk aircraft themselves. Then you have to remember that killing other fighter jets is only part of their job. There's also transport aircraft, drones, and helicopters that need shooting down and plenty of ground attack that could be done.
      It seems to me that allowing these roles to be filled by inferior aircraft would free up their more modern aircraft for more important roles, like dealing with other fighters.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >transport aircraft
        Highly vulnerable to ground based AA and aren't operating anywhere near the front. Russian logistics is primarily train based.
        >drones
        You're not shooting down a quadcopter in a MiG-21, and whatever larger drones Russia has can be hit by MANPADs and SAMs
        >Helicopters
        MANPADs and SAMs

        Even modern aircraft on both sides are highly limited in what they can do because of the amount of AA all over the place. Older aircraft will suffer from this even more.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    F4s would have a limited number of missions they could do, unless there's some heavily modernized variant I doubt it has the radar for BVR. The Ukie air force has attackers, infact they said they didn't need attackers. Something the F4 could do is electronic counter measures

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Send those Austrialian F-18

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Old shitty tanks can still fill a indirect fire role.
    Planes that can't carry modern missiles and have outdated radars are a waste of fuel and pilots.

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    > Old tank
    Costs a lot effort to keep running, but if it breaks down it's not the end of the world. And it still can be useful against light armored vehicles, or for indirect fire

    >Old plane
    Costs a shitlot of effort and money to keep flying, if you don't you die in a fireball. Also gets mogged by any basic modern plane.

    There's a lot more evolution in plane technology than tanks, while a 50 years old tank is basically the same as a new one except in armor composition, a 50 years old plane is like a dinosaur.

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    You know a valuable human pilot would have to fly those 70 year old, completely obsolete deathtraps, right?

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Could Ukraine make use of F-4s
    Listen to me son and listen good:
    If Ukraine were to field the F-4 Phantom II in a somewhat modern variant they would send the entrie russian air force to the ground within a week.
    The Phantom would phuck every last russian plane until there are no more enemies but peace. You know why's that? Because the Phantom is the greatest military plane ever built.
    That aint no shit either.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Wait what : a F-4 shot down a U-2?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Theres no military plane designed between 1945 and 1995 that hasn't been shot down at least once by the great Phantom II

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Even the SR-71/A-12?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Did I stutter?

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Phantoms are an ancient huge ass target and nobody knows how to fly or operate them, they'd be better with something more modern

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      YOU SHUT YOUR DIRTY prostitute MOUTH!!!

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >t. pierre du le rafale

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Exercise
        >Rafale plays the role of a plastron aircraft, being purposefully inferior (as if it was a MiG or a Sukhoi)
        >And yet there are still some morons to post that picture
        You're literally at the same level as cum-guzzling serbians who are endlessly bragging about the F-117

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Ukrainian air superiority F4s with modernized long-range missiles and laser-guided bombs would be so fricking kino

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      From the dawn of the jet-age we came…mowing enemy planes down through the decades. Living many lives, struggling to reach the time of the gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the last. Many enemies have feared us in the skies above…..until now.

      >Heeere we are
      >Born to be kings
      >We're the princes of the universe

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