rifle was okay/good
Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had. it would have benefited so many other systems to start up polymer ammunition production
the problem was the machine gun wasn't very good, however, which is probably half of why it lost. the other half being that Sig always gets what they want
>Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had. it would have benefited so many other systems to start up polymer ammunition production
This so much
The US military continues to innovate methods to destroy white people in their own home. It’s a shame the shit doesn’t work and some hick wearing jean overalls can take out a platoon even while heavily intoxicated
Thank you for the history lesson Rabbi, I’m well aware of brother wars and how you’re responsible for them.
My post was in regards to how white people are being baited into a race war that the US military will use as an excuse to use anti-armor weapons to try to defeat civillian body armor.
>some hick wearing jean overalls can take out a platoon even while heavily intoxicated
I'm curious how genuinely stupid you have to be to believe this. What's your first principle? That the entire military is now defunct because they ran an ad or two for trannies? I hate to break it to you, but pogues have always been soft and weak little pussies, and they know it — it's why they didn't go infantry.
rifle was okay/good
Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had. it would have benefited so many other systems to start up polymer ammunition production
the problem was the machine gun wasn't very good, however, which is probably half of why it lost. the other half being that Sig always gets what they want
>the problem was the machine gun wasn't very good
Because they wanted to save the tax payer some money by simply re-barreling the existing M240 stock. The army hates tax payers though and demanded a wholly new machine gun design at the last minute. It feels like an afterthought because it literally was.
No. The best option would to be to have someone with a brain take over the program, revise the requirements, and change the aim of the 6.8mm portion to field a DMR and LMG. A later goal would be a new GPMG and other weapons (minigun, etc.) to phase out 7.62mm NATO. An added portion of the program would be to field a new carbine/rifle family in a new caliber with the aim of offering some improvement over 5.56mm NATO but keeping the minimal recoil and low weight. This would use whatever ammo technology selected for the 6.8mm caliber.
I think the cased-telescoped ammunition holds the most promise even it isn't quite mature enough, so development on that should continue even if it isn't chosen.
>Issue the heavy-as-frick M240 as a squad light machine gun
Stupid idea. Yeah, there is the lightweight M240L but that must be as expensive as hell with so many titanium components.
[...]
Shalom.
The israelites must love not having to pay for rent in your head.
>Because they wanted to save the tax payer some money by simply re-barreling the existing M240 stock.
Not it was desperate convulsions to jump out the pit GD dig themselves in with their RPK cosplay.
Dont get me wrong re-barrelling M240 for better ballitics round is good idea, and use new better 6.8 as straight replacement for 7.62x51 across all military. But, M240 in now way can pass NGSW-AR requirement. If they brought it in it would be simply rejected as missing size and weight requirements by a mile.
>Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had.
I keep seeing this a lot, but my experience with the .308 limited run they had was awful. Multiple failures to feed and ripped case heads in a box of 20.
Obviously, that's a sample of one but we switched back to brass and had no issies for the rest of the day. So I am prone to believe the ammo isn't as rosy as Velocity is making it out to be.
Not saying the Sig two part cases or the Textron telescoping weren't worse, but a ripped case head isn't something you can afford to clear for a machine gun on a consistent basis.
None.
I'm not gay enough to like the things that they do. Whenever a buddy introduces me to some niche that they like it tends to be filled to the brim with smelly eunuchs.
Like 3D printed firearms. It seemed alright until I saw the type of people that do it. Their passion is not to revolutionize materials science, but to pretend that they are gunsmiths. They don't have a lathe, they don't have any rotaries. It just ain't right.
Sig's LMG also has a fixed barrel, and they used the longer barrel of the bullpup to get the required velocity without loading rounds to Bubba's Signature Pissin' Hot +P++ Barrel Incinerator Edition levels like Sig did.
Given the weight and assumption of the use of even more weight in the Gucci optic, yeah-- particularly in the LMG configuration, and better heat dissipation vis-a-vis the other options.
>Trigger is supposed to be bad even for a bullpup
Military triggers suck ass regardless, I'll take the extra barrel length and back loaded weight on that pig all day.
The Textron rifle, provided it worked, would have been the best option. Biggest leap in technology and the most room for future improvement. Unfortunately patent issues prevent us from even finding out
>thinly veiled sig payday
The irony is that it was actually a thinly veiled Textron payday. After the last few iterations, the ngsw trial was basically tailor made for textrons rifle which they had been developing for years and was expected to reach maturity for the trial. Unfortunately, Textron pulled out due to patent issues and (I guess) the army went with what they thought was the safest option as a result
Ammo is the best.
Rifle is ok but overly complicated for a rifle.
Machine gun is just a failure.
Problem is NGSW had serious requirement for a automatic fire dispersion. GD did best in this regard delivering rifle with really working recoil reducing system.... but Army in their decision ignored their own requirement and concentrated on the other qualities (single shoot accuracy and machine gun capacity). GD took the bait.
Rifle should be simpler without gimmicky recoil reduction system, it would have better accuracy, trigger and weight. See new Dessert Tech WLVRN, just 7.63lbs.
And for machine gun they should've scale down their LWMMG.
Why do people keep saying their "ammo was the best"? Are they fellow necklets or something? The Textron CT ammo offered greater weight savings and could handle higher pressures. The SIG-Sauer ammo could also handle higher pressures though it had the least weight reduction.
What's your source for this? The 6.5mm CT Textron was working on prior to the 6.8mm CT was under 15.4 grams. For comparison their 7.62mm CT was under 15.6 grams. I don't see why their 6.8mm CT would weigh significantly more than that.
I’m not in love with the Sig but I’m glad it won out. This rifle and the other option just look so gay. They look like placeholder “future” guns you would see in a comic book or something.
The sig is moronic but no matter how bad it was that wont help this overcome the fact its a bullpup and it has the dumbest looking suppressor in the world.
>the dumbest looking suppressor in the world
Also the shortest for its sound reduction AND with flow-through. It's extremely effective however goofy it might look.
I love the RM277, but the suppressor is a potato. Flatten out the sides a little and extend the height upwards (imagine an upside-down Osprey can) and it would follow the flow of the forend a lot better.
Just use a suppressor that had a typical profile instead of that stupid potato. I hear the potato was chosen because of the moronic length requirements that submissions had to abide by.
Though honestly suppressors as standard issue vs being issued a situational basis is a stupid choice. And before anyone talks about going deaf everyone should be issued good hearing protection these days anyway regardless of what is on the end of their barrel.
>Though honestly suppressors as standard issue vs being issued a situational basis is a stupid choice
USMC addressed this. The whole team having suppressors makes it easier to communicate between squadmates and increases situational awareness. You can hear where the guys shooting at you are a lot easier when your side is shooting suppressed.
2 months ago
Anonymous
What sort of hearing protection and communications equipment did those Marines have? Because the USMC fricks everything up there were probably lacking in those areas.
Ok. Why is the mass issuance of silencers a bad idea?
First there is the whole stupidity of switching to carbines because rifles were supposedly too clumsy and cumbersome. Yet then comes this desire to have suppressors fitted all the time and that brings the length to not much less than that of the prior rifle. But this time you don't get the better ballistics of the longer barrel. For an example just look at what the Marines have done with the M27. With everything attached it is heavier than their prior M16A4s and almost as long.
It's also another thing for clueless GIs to fail to maintain properly and more weight that needs to be carried that happens to be right at the end of the barrel. And unless you're doing LRRP or SF sort of work it isn't a huge benefit for the regular infantry if they have good hearing protection and comms gear.
Some of these geniuses think MGs up to .50 caliber should have suppressors as standard issue. Because somehow an enemy won't be able to determine the location of a HMG firing at them that is probably on a vehicle? Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel or will they be expected to detach the scalding-hot one? Of course that assumes the level of heat necessitating barrel changes doesn't destroy it.
It's just a cargo cult thing at this point. When it comes to their integration in NGSW the length requirements for the carbine with suppressor to be no longer than a standard issue M4 are part of the reason for some poor design choices. For example the chamber pressure on the SIG carbine wouldn't be quite so insanely high if they had a few more inches of barrel length to work with.
And despite the suppressor requirement the Army seemed to have no interest in furthering the development of integral suppressors despite the theoretical advantages.
2 months ago
Anonymous
>Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel or will they be expected to detach the scalding-hot one?
Water cooling
a
t
e
2 months ago
Rich Investor
I don't know why we haven't gone to integrally suppressed, water cooled barrels
>Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel
This is why they flat out refused a QC barrel for the machinegun even when it was offered. They didn't want to deal with issuing and keeping track of suppressors for every spare barrel.
2 months ago
Anonymous
That is so fricking stupid I can believe it because so much about this program has been so fricking stupid.
Nah. These chode silencers the russians have been using look cool as hell, so does the american made putnik aproximation of the same style can.
They dont follow the lines of the rifle either.
it was the future. but i'm convinced half the reason the rifle was rejected is because at least half of the soldiers issued the rifle would try using the suppressor as a butt plug.
It looked like the plasma gun the terminators use in the future war and its based for that reason alone
I would also like to know more about the fatty suppressor
yes
No.
>Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had. it would have benefited so many other systems to start up polymer ammunition production
This so much
The US military continues to innovate methods to destroy white people in their own home. It’s a shame the shit doesn’t work and some hick wearing jean overalls can take out a platoon even while heavily intoxicated
White people can’t stop killing white people, it’s a historical constant. Get over it.
Thank you for the history lesson Rabbi, I’m well aware of brother wars and how you’re responsible for them.
My post was in regards to how white people are being baited into a race war that the US military will use as an excuse to use anti-armor weapons to try to defeat civillian body armor.
shizo lmaooo
Shalom
Hicks do it by nature, israelites or no israelites. israelites didn't cause the Civil War, it was "Southern Pride".
Shalom.
>some hick wearing jean overalls can take out a platoon even while heavily intoxicated
I'm curious how genuinely stupid you have to be to believe this. What's your first principle? That the entire military is now defunct because they ran an ad or two for trannies? I hate to break it to you, but pogues have always been soft and weak little pussies, and they know it — it's why they didn't go infantry.
>What's your first principle?
All the other hicks around the world that BTFO the US military?
Even the Mexican hicks BTFO the US. They just walts in with 0 resistance now. It's Pancho Villa but gayer.
rifle was okay/good
Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had. it would have benefited so many other systems to start up polymer ammunition production
the problem was the machine gun wasn't very good, however, which is probably half of why it lost. the other half being that Sig always gets what they want
>the problem was the machine gun wasn't very good
Because they wanted to save the tax payer some money by simply re-barreling the existing M240 stock. The army hates tax payers though and demanded a wholly new machine gun design at the last minute. It feels like an afterthought because it literally was.
No. The best option would to be to have someone with a brain take over the program, revise the requirements, and change the aim of the 6.8mm portion to field a DMR and LMG. A later goal would be a new GPMG and other weapons (minigun, etc.) to phase out 7.62mm NATO. An added portion of the program would be to field a new carbine/rifle family in a new caliber with the aim of offering some improvement over 5.56mm NATO but keeping the minimal recoil and low weight. This would use whatever ammo technology selected for the 6.8mm caliber.
I think the cased-telescoped ammunition holds the most promise even it isn't quite mature enough, so development on that should continue even if it isn't chosen.
>Issue the heavy-as-frick M240 as a squad light machine gun
Stupid idea. Yeah, there is the lightweight M240L but that must be as expensive as hell with so many titanium components.
The israelites must love not having to pay for rent in your head.
They're rather appreciative after being kicked out of 109 minds
>Because they wanted to save the tax payer some money by simply re-barreling the existing M240 stock.
Not it was desperate convulsions to jump out the pit GD dig themselves in with their RPK cosplay.
Dont get me wrong re-barrelling M240 for better ballitics round is good idea, and use new better 6.8 as straight replacement for 7.62x51 across all military. But, M240 in now way can pass NGSW-AR requirement. If they brought it in it would be simply rejected as missing size and weight requirements by a mile.
>Ammo was incredible and easily the best thing any of the offerings had.
I keep seeing this a lot, but my experience with the .308 limited run they had was awful. Multiple failures to feed and ripped case heads in a box of 20.
Obviously, that's a sample of one but we switched back to brass and had no issies for the rest of the day. So I am prone to believe the ammo isn't as rosy as Velocity is making it out to be.
Not saying the Sig two part cases or the Textron telescoping weren't worse, but a ripped case head isn't something you can afford to clear for a machine gun on a consistent basis.
what is the plastics used in their ammo? PEEK?
>and ripped case heads in a box of 20
There is reason made from plain sheet 6.8 uses neckless case.
Bullpups are never the answer
>40k homosexualry
>t. furry
troonys out
>he doesn't know
40k has been trans and yiffed for about a decade. That's what usually happens when niche's become less of a niche but not yet mainstream.
How much time per day do you think about troons, on average?
None.
I'm not gay enough to like the things that they do. Whenever a buddy introduces me to some niche that they like it tends to be filled to the brim with smelly eunuchs.
Like 3D printed firearms. It seemed alright until I saw the type of people that do it. Their passion is not to revolutionize materials science, but to pretend that they are gunsmiths. They don't have a lathe, they don't have any rotaries. It just ain't right.
That ngsw is DOA, BRO is actually releasing theirs to the commerical market
BRO hasnt said SHIT about their rifle.
Word on the street is that the reason why the modern bullpups are so hush hush right now is due to USSOCOM doing a highly secretive bullpup trial
Yeah. I keep hearing that here, and nowhere else.
I think im getting rused.
This with the Sig M250 (assuming Stellite barrels) would've been the best combo.
>LMG with fixed barrel
>barrel burning rounds
>the best combo
Not even fricking close.
>stellite
Read
>stellite
Source??
You didn't read
Nope
Sig's LMG also has a fixed barrel, and they used the longer barrel of the bullpup to get the required velocity without loading rounds to Bubba's Signature Pissin' Hot +P++ Barrel Incinerator Edition levels like Sig did.
Yes, that's the issue I'm bringing up. Sig built a fixed barrel LMG with barrel burner round.
Sig LMG has moving barrel and recoil reduction operation.
It doesn't have quick change barrel.
>It doesn't have quick change barrel
Yes, that's the point that we are discussing.
The funny thing is, Sig and the Army went back on the pissing hot ammo as soon as they got contract. It's all lower pressure training ammo afaik
I bet they didn't even use the 80kpsi ammo during trials.
Trigger is supposed to be bad even for a bullpup and bullpup ergos suck. Silencer is neat though.
>bullpup ergos suck
Explain how the AUG is the most comfortable to hold rifle I have ever owned then.
You are not ergonomic
Given the weight and assumption of the use of even more weight in the Gucci optic, yeah-- particularly in the LMG configuration, and better heat dissipation vis-a-vis the other options.
>Trigger is supposed to be bad even for a bullpup
Military triggers suck ass regardless, I'll take the extra barrel length and back loaded weight on that pig all day.
The Textron rifle, provided it worked, would have been the best option. Biggest leap in technology and the most room for future improvement. Unfortunately patent issues prevent us from even finding out
I'm assuming the problem with the textron rifle was throat erosion since the bullet is seated in the cartridge instead of the barrel.
It looked coolest, but the whole trials were just a thinly veiled SIG payday, same as the XM17 trials.
It's not like matters. The rifle isn't meant to replace mainline duty, and I expect to see M4s or AR derivatives in the hands of soldiers forever.
>thinly veiled sig payday
The irony is that it was actually a thinly veiled Textron payday. After the last few iterations, the ngsw trial was basically tailor made for textrons rifle which they had been developing for years and was expected to reach maturity for the trial. Unfortunately, Textron pulled out due to patent issues and (I guess) the army went with what they thought was the safest option as a result
>trying to sell US military on bullpups
You'd have a better chance getting them to adopt muzzle loaders.
Gods no
Ammo is the best.
Rifle is ok but overly complicated for a rifle.
Machine gun is just a failure.
Problem is NGSW had serious requirement for a automatic fire dispersion. GD did best in this regard delivering rifle with really working recoil reducing system.... but Army in their decision ignored their own requirement and concentrated on the other qualities (single shoot accuracy and machine gun capacity). GD took the bait.
Rifle should be simpler without gimmicky recoil reduction system, it would have better accuracy, trigger and weight. See new Dessert Tech WLVRN, just 7.63lbs.
And for machine gun they should've scale down their LWMMG.
Why do people keep saying their "ammo was the best"? Are they fellow necklets or something? The Textron CT ammo offered greater weight savings and could handle higher pressures. The SIG-Sauer ammo could also handle higher pressures though it had the least weight reduction.
>The Textron CT ammo offered greater weight savings
Why lie?
Textron 6.8 is 17.9 grams
TV 6.8 is 17.5 grams...
What's your source for this? The 6.5mm CT Textron was working on prior to the 6.8mm CT was under 15.4 grams. For comparison their 7.62mm CT was under 15.6 grams. I don't see why their 6.8mm CT would weigh significantly more than that.
Lets see you sources first.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/01/29/shot-2020-textron-ngsw-r-at-the-hk-booth/
>bullpup
a system that relies on the off-hand for controls will always be inferior.
For the rifle yes 100%.
>bullpup
will never have decent triggers
Crazy how there have been bullpoops with good triggers for over 10 years and you still repeat this fuddlore.
>"I have never used a bullpup before": The Post
I’m not in love with the Sig but I’m glad it won out. This rifle and the other option just look so gay. They look like placeholder “future” guns you would see in a comic book or something.
how does it feel to argue about the weapon that was only tendered with the purpose of killing YOU
Take your meds.
Frick no, it's a bullpup.
Ok gramps
Bullpups have handling, balance, and recoil problems that standard designs of the same mechanical type simply don't have to deal with.
Yes
The sig is moronic but no matter how bad it was that wont help this overcome the fact its a bullpup and it has the dumbest looking suppressor in the world.
>the dumbest looking suppressor in the world
Also the shortest for its sound reduction AND with flow-through. It's extremely effective however goofy it might look.
Chode supressors look cool as shit and im tired of pretending they dont.
I love the RM277, but the suppressor is a potato. Flatten out the sides a little and extend the height upwards (imagine an upside-down Osprey can) and it would follow the flow of the forend a lot better.
Just use a suppressor that had a typical profile instead of that stupid potato. I hear the potato was chosen because of the moronic length requirements that submissions had to abide by.
Though honestly suppressors as standard issue vs being issued a situational basis is a stupid choice. And before anyone talks about going deaf everyone should be issued good hearing protection these days anyway regardless of what is on the end of their barrel.
Ok. Why is the mass issuance of silencers a bad idea?
>Though honestly suppressors as standard issue vs being issued a situational basis is a stupid choice
USMC addressed this. The whole team having suppressors makes it easier to communicate between squadmates and increases situational awareness. You can hear where the guys shooting at you are a lot easier when your side is shooting suppressed.
What sort of hearing protection and communications equipment did those Marines have? Because the USMC fricks everything up there were probably lacking in those areas.
First there is the whole stupidity of switching to carbines because rifles were supposedly too clumsy and cumbersome. Yet then comes this desire to have suppressors fitted all the time and that brings the length to not much less than that of the prior rifle. But this time you don't get the better ballistics of the longer barrel. For an example just look at what the Marines have done with the M27. With everything attached it is heavier than their prior M16A4s and almost as long.
It's also another thing for clueless GIs to fail to maintain properly and more weight that needs to be carried that happens to be right at the end of the barrel. And unless you're doing LRRP or SF sort of work it isn't a huge benefit for the regular infantry if they have good hearing protection and comms gear.
Some of these geniuses think MGs up to .50 caliber should have suppressors as standard issue. Because somehow an enemy won't be able to determine the location of a HMG firing at them that is probably on a vehicle? Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel or will they be expected to detach the scalding-hot one? Of course that assumes the level of heat necessitating barrel changes doesn't destroy it.
It's just a cargo cult thing at this point. When it comes to their integration in NGSW the length requirements for the carbine with suppressor to be no longer than a standard issue M4 are part of the reason for some poor design choices. For example the chamber pressure on the SIG carbine wouldn't be quite so insanely high if they had a few more inches of barrel length to work with.
And despite the suppressor requirement the Army seemed to have no interest in furthering the development of integral suppressors despite the theoretical advantages.
>Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel or will they be expected to detach the scalding-hot one?
Water cooling
a
t
e
I don't know why we haven't gone to integrally suppressed, water cooled barrels
https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2017/armament/Kent19187.pdf
>Are MG crews going to have a suppressor for every spare barrel
This is why they flat out refused a QC barrel for the machinegun even when it was offered. They didn't want to deal with issuing and keeping track of suppressors for every spare barrel.
That is so fricking stupid I can believe it because so much about this program has been so fricking stupid.
Nah. These chode silencers the russians have been using look cool as hell, so does the american made putnik aproximation of the same style can.
They dont follow the lines of the rifle either.
How can anyone look at that acronym without thinking NIGSAW? Is that a miss or a feature?
yup. and its a shame we didn't get it
it was the future. but i'm convinced half the reason the rifle was rejected is because at least half of the soldiers issued the rifle would try using the suppressor as a butt plug.
It looked like the plasma gun the terminators use in the future war and its based for that reason alone
I would also like to know more about the fatty suppressor