Wrong. Sweden, Norway and Belgium are also looking for a replacement for their NH90's. Finland too had some serious teething problems with theirs choppers. It's okay now, but it is widely considered one of the poorest procurement decisions by FDF. Basically everyone is having problems with them. Some are replacing them, while others just deal with it.
It took a decade to bring the finnish fleet of NH90 up to an acceptable level, mostly due to the spare parts simply not being available. Some of the electromechanical components of the control system could take up to two years to deliver, as the manufacturer refused to expand production even in the face of literally every operator of the type bellowing at them over undelivered orders. The backlog wasn't cleared until 2015-2016ish and the ready rate jumped from sub-20% to fifty in 2015. Since then it's been mostly smooth flying, but the army has to eat the extra cost of keeping a 24-month reserve on ANYTHING mission critical in case the supply gets shaky again.
NAYRT but it's both
picture this: >you buy a car >it breaks down sooner than others >you call a mechanic >he's too busy and tells you to get in the fricking line >when he does come round, he tells you you need your engine block changed >"but it's a 2 year old car!" >it's a new design engine block and breaks down faster >also, there's a waiting list for parts, so you have to wait >months later you finally get your car >come back in 2 years he tells you, after you pay up >"you mean I have to change the engine every 2 years all the life of this car?!?!" >yes, but eventually we'll revamp the design >"okay when will that be?" >no idea
Yes, it's an excellent design for the purpose but like any helicopter, it needs a steady supply of parts to continue functioning. The blackhawk for example has a massive advantage in this as there's so many of them in use, the manufacturers can continuously operate dedicated production lines for its various components, enjoying the benefits of economies of scale. Meanwhile the NH90 operators have to put up with temperamental italians who do production runs 2-4 months at a time, while juggling half a dozen other types' orders and backlogs on the same production line. The french and dutch seem to be capable of better long term production planning but there's still delays.
For the price of one NH90 you can buy and operate 2-3 Blackhawks and still save money.
Turns out the manufacturer was absolutely dog shit. Original specs for the helicopter were never meet and original users found faults everywhere. Then attempts to remedy those faults took far longer, in some case it could take years, which meant most nations airfleets of NH90 would spend barely any time in the air because they couldn't maintain them quick enough or have enough parts to risk flying them all. This is also while the manufacturer is fighting them, trying to force others to not cancel their contracts but also refusing to meet their own contractual obligations.
It could of been a great helicopter, its only problem was its manufacture.
Swedish Air Force says it costs them 18k euros per flight hour to operate a NH90 while their Black hawks only cost 3.5k euros per flight hour. So in their case it's more like 5 Black Hawks for every NH90.
No literally everyone but France hates them. Like I said, had Australia demonstrated leadership and sent them to the Ukes, I guarantee *everyone* but the French would send theirs as well. Then at least one country would have enough spare parts and relevant service data.
Nope. NH-90 is widely considered biggest procurement mistake Finnish military has ever made. We are talking about availability of helicopters dropping bellow 50% on peace time because Frogs deployed handful of helicopters to Mali and manufacturer can't deliver spare parts ordered years ahead on schedule due to that. NH-90 is scam.
It's like the subs, daddy US wants his minions to buy his shits by all means. It's a ok helicopter, and like any western military equipment there's a lot of competition, so when you see the media say "this one is shit" just check who's gonna get the contract in the end to see where the bad publicity comes from. In many cases it comes from US, they even managed to sell F35 to Germany lol.
>they even managed to sell F35 to Germany lol. >even
that makes no sense. Germany used American fighter aircraft for decades before from the F-86 through the F-104 to the F-4.
it was clear for years that the Tornado would be replaced by an American model eventually, the only question was when the government would greenlight the budget and whether the replacement would be the Super Bug or the F-35.
Germany invested millions in the Eurofighter and they do have a good plane for that money. In fact they don't really need such a machine but why not, and then they suddenly bought some expensive high tech gadget for no reason... Corruption as always.
it's called nuclear sharing and it has been a thing for decares.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Its illegal for German parliament to discuss the placement of US nuclear weapons on their territory but they totally aren't a puppet.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Its illegal for German parliament to discuss the placement of US nuclear weapons on their territory
no it isn't. You just made that up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Since 2022 the most prominent German anti nuclear group no longer protests the presence of US Government nuclear weapons. Only nuclear electricity generation that they already shut down.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Soon we'll kill every one of you. We're coming. Enjoy posting while you can.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Who is we
3 months ago
Anonymous
>UK has domestic nukes
3 months ago
Anonymous
>UK has domestic nukes
>UK has domestic nukes
It depends on what you define it as I guess, we only operate the Trident these days, and the missile stockpile is operated as part of a shared pool of weapons based at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in the United States. The US maintains and supports the missiles themselves, while the UK manufactures and maintains its own warheads to be used on the missiles.
Its a very British arrangement.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the UK controls the launch so it's domestic nukes, unlike the nuclear sharing members who need US consent to nuke somebody
3 months ago
Anonymous
To be fair, the warhead is the hard part.
Were the burgers moronic enough to sperg out of the trident deal, the UK is more than "capable" of building it's own SLBM's.
I put capable in quotes, because we all know the parliament couldn't pass a fricking fart these days, nervermind tender a contract for a series of rockets.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>nervermind tender a contract for a series of rockets.
I dread to imagine just how over-promised, over-budget and undelivered that shit would end up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>the UK is more than "capable" of building it's own SLBM's
why didn't they do it ? Historically they must have had an impressive missile program so why did they give up and chose to rely on the US ?
>Why didn't we give them to Ukraine?
Give Ukraine the Blackhawks Australia ordered and the submarines too. Enough of these half ass solutions. Freedom isn't free.
No it's true and tragically we didn't send them to Ukraine, because honestly the Ukrainians could do with them and had we sent them any Europeans countries with them would *also* have sent them because everyone just needs an excuse at this point.
I don't know what the frick the department of Defence has been thinking when it has come to Ukraine recently. We dispose of two types of helo without even thinking about them, and believe the nonsense of one Uke airforce official that they didn't want the F/A-18s even though their ambassador was pleading with us for months to send them.
bollocks >one Uke airforce official that they didn't want the F/A-18s even though their ambassador was pleading with us for months to send them
because a diplomat has no fricking clue in what sorry state those things are, whereas a pilot would
the F-18s are in shit state and would need a teardown and rebuild to get combat worthy; and said rebuilding would take over a year, only THEN would you even be able to train pilots on them
France and Germany are using this thing just fine
probably cause they swiped all the parts and best maintainers
Spain, Italy and NL too
Spain and Italy don't operate much
the Dutch had a fatal crash and suspended deliveries as some point
once again, the pattern is pro-Continental Europe. I wonder why...
It was already public information as to how many were in a serviceable state. Furthermore, you have the much documented quote from the DoD official "They would be in Ukrainian skies now if not for the Ukrainian official saying that". Then the Ukrainians apparently changed their minds and formally requested the F/A-18's and went into talks with the Australian Government again. So who knows.
>It was already public information as to how many were in a serviceable state
lots of information is public, frickwit, but nobody has time to read it all
you're literally taking the word of a fricking diplomat over a subject matter expert whose job it probably was to assess the feasibility of those fricking F-18s, how braindead must you be >hurr durr CHANG
nice try, but ad hominem won't cover up your ignorant bullshit
ITT, morons yelling >FROOOOOOOOOOOOGS
Hello morons. Look at picrel and STFU, thxbye.
By the way the French forces also are unhappy with their NH90 helis.
This the definitive proof Eurofighter-style coops only spawn shit stuff.
Would you buy a car where the chassi was built by Volvo, the powertrain by BMW, the suspension system by Skoda, the body and interior by Renault and then assembled by Italians?
MBDA and Airbus Aircraft's products, as well as the F-35, work just fine despite having many of their parts sourced from different places.
In fact it's rather uncommon for a large-scale project to have all of its components sourced from the same company, let alone the same country.
It is a widespread sentiment in our military that we should've bought Blackhawks instead.
t. Swede
I DO know
I hate aussies so fricking much, another BritBongs™ production (many such cases)
They only had them since 2010?
Christ, helicopters are unreasonably ugly.
Maybe the Aussies just suck, because other countries seem happy with their NH90s
>t. Frog
Slabbord ou Legionnaire?
Hell no. Finland and patria spent stupid amount of time and money to make them viable when we could have just bought two fleets of blackhawks.
20 passengers with +800km range vs 11 passengers and roughly 590km range. Finland is 1,160 km long.
Wrong. Sweden, Norway and Belgium are also looking for a replacement for their NH90's. Finland too had some serious teething problems with theirs choppers. It's okay now, but it is widely considered one of the poorest procurement decisions by FDF. Basically everyone is having problems with them. Some are replacing them, while others just deal with it.
It took a decade to bring the finnish fleet of NH90 up to an acceptable level, mostly due to the spare parts simply not being available. Some of the electromechanical components of the control system could take up to two years to deliver, as the manufacturer refused to expand production even in the face of literally every operator of the type bellowing at them over undelivered orders. The backlog wasn't cleared until 2015-2016ish and the ready rate jumped from sub-20% to fifty in 2015. Since then it's been mostly smooth flying, but the army has to eat the extra cost of keeping a 24-month reserve on ANYTHING mission critical in case the supply gets shaky again.
so the problem lays on the supply chain and not the heli itself?
NAYRT but it's both
picture this:
>you buy a car
>it breaks down sooner than others
>you call a mechanic
>he's too busy and tells you to get in the fricking line
>when he does come round, he tells you you need your engine block changed
>"but it's a 2 year old car!"
>it's a new design engine block and breaks down faster
>also, there's a waiting list for parts, so you have to wait
>months later you finally get your car
>come back in 2 years he tells you, after you pay up
>"you mean I have to change the engine every 2 years all the life of this car?!?!"
>yes, but eventually we'll revamp the design
>"okay when will that be?"
>no idea
that's the NH90 experience.
Yes, it's an excellent design for the purpose but like any helicopter, it needs a steady supply of parts to continue functioning. The blackhawk for example has a massive advantage in this as there's so many of them in use, the manufacturers can continuously operate dedicated production lines for its various components, enjoying the benefits of economies of scale. Meanwhile the NH90 operators have to put up with temperamental italians who do production runs 2-4 months at a time, while juggling half a dozen other types' orders and backlogs on the same production line. The french and dutch seem to be capable of better long term production planning but there's still delays.
For the price of one NH90 you can buy and operate 2-3 Blackhawks and still save money.
Turns out the manufacturer was absolutely dog shit. Original specs for the helicopter were never meet and original users found faults everywhere. Then attempts to remedy those faults took far longer, in some case it could take years, which meant most nations airfleets of NH90 would spend barely any time in the air because they couldn't maintain them quick enough or have enough parts to risk flying them all. This is also while the manufacturer is fighting them, trying to force others to not cancel their contracts but also refusing to meet their own contractual obligations.
It could of been a great helicopter, its only problem was its manufacture.
Swedish Air Force says it costs them 18k euros per flight hour to operate a NH90 while their Black hawks only cost 3.5k euros per flight hour. So in their case it's more like 5 Black Hawks for every NH90.
No literally everyone but France hates them. Like I said, had Australia demonstrated leadership and sent them to the Ukes, I guarantee *everyone* but the French would send theirs as well. Then at least one country would have enough spare parts and relevant service data.
>other countries seem happy with their NH90s
Other countries of what planet? Sure as hell isn't Earth.
Nope. NH-90 is widely considered biggest procurement mistake Finnish military has ever made. We are talking about availability of helicopters dropping bellow 50% on peace time because Frogs deployed handful of helicopters to Mali and manufacturer can't deliver spare parts ordered years ahead on schedule due to that. NH-90 is scam.
It would be more accurate to say that fr*nch support infrastructure is a scam but yeah.
Australia is too dependent on fickle Europoors anyway.
>pov all the idiots that got the option of the same engine as apaches thinking that usa will kept manufacturing them for ever got what they deserve
Why can't they just buy the old production line like China bought old Buicks or Mexico makes VW bugs?
It's like the subs, daddy US wants his minions to buy his shits by all means. It's a ok helicopter, and like any western military equipment there's a lot of competition, so when you see the media say "this one is shit" just check who's gonna get the contract in the end to see where the bad publicity comes from. In many cases it comes from US, they even managed to sell F35 to Germany lol.
>they even managed to sell F35 to Germany lol.
>even
that makes no sense. Germany used American fighter aircraft for decades before from the F-86 through the F-104 to the F-4.
it was clear for years that the Tornado would be replaced by an American model eventually, the only question was when the government would greenlight the budget and whether the replacement would be the Super Bug or the F-35.
Germany invested millions in the Eurofighter and they do have a good plane for that money. In fact they don't really need such a machine but why not, and then they suddenly bought some expensive high tech gadget for no reason... Corruption as always.
the EF isn't stealth and it isn't certified to deliver the B61 nuke.
>deliver the B61 nuke.
Famous German nuke.
Oops sorry I didn't want' to say Germany is US puppet.
it's called nuclear sharing and it has been a thing for decares.
Its illegal for German parliament to discuss the placement of US nuclear weapons on their territory but they totally aren't a puppet.
>Its illegal for German parliament to discuss the placement of US nuclear weapons on their territory
no it isn't. You just made that up.
Since 2022 the most prominent German anti nuclear group no longer protests the presence of US Government nuclear weapons. Only nuclear electricity generation that they already shut down.
Soon we'll kill every one of you. We're coming. Enjoy posting while you can.
Who is we
>UK has domestic nukes
>UK has domestic nukes
It depends on what you define it as I guess, we only operate the Trident these days, and the missile stockpile is operated as part of a shared pool of weapons based at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in the United States. The US maintains and supports the missiles themselves, while the UK manufactures and maintains its own warheads to be used on the missiles.
Its a very British arrangement.
the UK controls the launch so it's domestic nukes, unlike the nuclear sharing members who need US consent to nuke somebody
To be fair, the warhead is the hard part.
Were the burgers moronic enough to sperg out of the trident deal, the UK is more than "capable" of building it's own SLBM's.
I put capable in quotes, because we all know the parliament couldn't pass a fricking fart these days, nervermind tender a contract for a series of rockets.
>nervermind tender a contract for a series of rockets.
I dread to imagine just how over-promised, over-budget and undelivered that shit would end up.
>the UK is more than "capable" of building it's own SLBM's
why didn't they do it ? Historically they must have had an impressive missile program so why did they give up and chose to rely on the US ?
>Corruption as always.
Dutch politicians that oppose F-35 get assassinated.
Extreme mental gymnastics/moronation or blatant misinformation
The Eurofighter is a fossils. Nobody using it can decide on how to modernize
Cope more gay. The Army never wanted the MH-90 in the first place and is now finally getting what it needs instead of another failed europoor product
>It's like the subs
Frog detected.
>ukraine asks for NH90s since the ozzie c**ts are throwing them away
>ozzie c**ts say "na you dont want it m8 its fricked"
>gib helicopter
>oh I can't afford to fix helicopter
>gib maintenance
>
I don't care if she's a hangar queen, she's beautiful to me
they look kinda goofy to me
Its the retractable landing gear, we aren't used to it.
i love it, i just want to buy them all and snuggle them in my garage and tell them comfy war stories so they sleep tight reap tight
I do like that naval ship-esque curve but it's a bit too long and blackhawk chans nose is cuter.
Why didn't we give them to Ukraine?
Why doesnt Europe give their own MH-90s to Ukraine?
>Why didn't we give them to Ukraine?
see
Ukraine as a state does not exist if the collective west stops paying the bills.
>Why didn't we give them to Ukraine?
Give Ukraine the Blackhawks Australia ordered and the submarines too. Enough of these half ass solutions. Freedom isn't free.
Giving Ukraine inoperable stuff is just a waste of Uke manpower.
idk
I dare to guess it was useless without shells
WTF is the god damn prob with that POS?
On paper looks like big upgrade from Blackhawk. Don't it got rear ramp for roll-on/off of jeeps and shit, big cargo para-drops?
France and Germany are using this thing just fine
Spain, Italy and NL too
No it's true and tragically we didn't send them to Ukraine, because honestly the Ukrainians could do with them and had we sent them any Europeans countries with them would *also* have sent them because everyone just needs an excuse at this point.
I don't know what the frick the department of Defence has been thinking when it has come to Ukraine recently. We dispose of two types of helo without even thinking about them, and believe the nonsense of one Uke airforce official that they didn't want the F/A-18s even though their ambassador was pleading with us for months to send them.
Clearly not everyone working there is Perun.
bollocks
>one Uke airforce official that they didn't want the F/A-18s even though their ambassador was pleading with us for months to send them
because a diplomat has no fricking clue in what sorry state those things are, whereas a pilot would
the F-18s are in shit state and would need a teardown and rebuild to get combat worthy; and said rebuilding would take over a year, only THEN would you even be able to train pilots on them
probably cause they swiped all the parts and best maintainers
Spain and Italy don't operate much
the Dutch had a fatal crash and suspended deliveries as some point
once again, the pattern is pro-Continental Europe. I wonder why...
It was already public information as to how many were in a serviceable state. Furthermore, you have the much documented quote from the DoD official "They would be in Ukrainian skies now if not for the Ukrainian official saying that". Then the Ukrainians apparently changed their minds and formally requested the F/A-18's and went into talks with the Australian Government again. So who knows.
So yeah, nice try Chang.
>It was already public information as to how many were in a serviceable state
lots of information is public, frickwit, but nobody has time to read it all
you're literally taking the word of a fricking diplomat over a subject matter expert whose job it probably was to assess the feasibility of those fricking F-18s, how braindead must you be
>hurr durr CHANG
nice try, but ad hominem won't cover up your ignorant bullshit
ITT, morons yelling
>FROOOOOOOOOOOOGS
Hello morons. Look at picrel and STFU, thxbye.
By the way the French forces also are unhappy with their NH90 helis.
This the definitive proof Eurofighter-style coops only spawn shit stuff.
Would you buy a car where the chassi was built by Volvo, the powertrain by BMW, the suspension system by Skoda, the body and interior by Renault and then assembled by Italians?
God I fricking hate these pan-European projects.
MBDA and Airbus Aircraft's products, as well as the F-35, work just fine despite having many of their parts sourced from different places.
In fact it's rather uncommon for a large-scale project to have all of its components sourced from the same company, let alone the same country.
Heli is fine, main problem is frog-supplied logistics and contract breaches
*aesthetically mogs w*stern helicopters until the heat death of the universe*
no doubt, but aesthetics is not performance