But why now? Is the Polish military just old and neglected enough for them to need that budget to modernize it?
Poolacks know they're next and they're terrified of Russia. And the best part? The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
>The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
Who hates the Poles? I'm European myself, and I'm mostly admiring their military spending. If they can resolve their political bullshit, they're in a very good place to face the future as a modern European power. Compare them to the Germans or the French, and the Poles are obviously better.
They've been due for a modernization cycle for the past 10 years or so, now they finally have the political will to do it and other countries are seeing that they want to become the protector of Europe and want to start investing.
It also helps that their modernization cycle is syncing up with the start of the latest US cycle and South Korea
>Poolacks know they're next and they're terrified of Russia. And the best part? The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
I quite like the Poles. At least they are Catholic.
>The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
Is this the new cope? I can understand abandoning Baltics, for a time, because we're very tricky to defend but Poland? Naw bro
They're planning to retake their old empire back. Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, and western Russia all the way to the Urals. All with NATO complicity and assistance.
If your nation has been at war with or occupied by Russians multiple times you'd see a Revanchist Russia as serious cause for alarm no matter how woefully incompetent they are.
they along with their northern neighbors are euros frontier states against the asiatic borderland. Belarus is going to be occupied fully at this rate and Ukraine is a entity all on its own.
In war while places like Finland and Estonia will be on mostly defensive operations holding off the attacking hordes, places like Poland and Lithuania must grab the initiative and go on the offensive in reclaiming fifth column hideouts like Konigsberg while defeating and ousting the vatnig army groups in their local area. There is also a real danger of the middle being severed as Latvia suffered heavily from russification programs in the vatnik union and thus is chock full of fifth columnists with a defense structure not taking their own homeland perimeter seriously.
prepping for offensive operations is always more expensive then defensive as you must account for not only the gear, but also repair/replacement capacity which includes entire industrial chains on their own. For german gear for example Germany itself is politically unreliable so you want to either get Rheinmetall estabilishing factories outside it or replace them with willing arms dealers who allows licensing. Like korea or burgers
Finland is not going to be on the defensive. The whole northern flank is a good staging area. There's a lot of US armor in storage under those Norwegian mountains and there's likely going to be a USMC base in Finland, one of the recently abandoned garrisons. We're going to flank to defend the Baltics.
Really, all Finland has to do is use its F-35s (or host some USAF ones) to knock out all of the key rail and road bridges connecting Moscow with Murmansk and St. Petersburg. That'd ruin all of the supply lines and commerce in the region.
they're shitting their pants over Russia. Poland is the designated rape victim of europe, and as such they go apeshit when someone starts acting rapey, because they know they're first in line.
Go read about how much the Polish suffered in WW2 because of their inadequately prepared military. Go on, there are some truly nightmarish hellraiser things in there.
My favorite is when the parade got blown up by a German demolition vehicle and it rained blood and gore for several minutes straight.
for years we were postponing modernisation programs while gear was getting older and older - now with most of the old gear in Ukraine there is nothing else left to do - so we buy some new stuff at long last....
Anon for the last century they've spent more time under the chains of someone else. Now they are free and never, ever want a generation raised under (particularly Russian) slavery again.
Polands military on Feb 24 22 was much weaker than Ukraines. In other words, if Russia invaded them, it woulda actually been a 3 day war. They're spooked
Russia is creating a power vacuum. Belarus was just sucked into it. Kaliningrad, parts of Belarus will fall apart, Poland will have to maintain order to keep nukes under control. They are on their modernization cycle and it's political season. They know they can get money from the EU for holding the border. The EU will want democratization reforms in exchange which will happen.
It's Poland. They hustle and based
T. American
Our minister of finance hates spending money please understand. He sliced all government budgets across the board. It’s a miracle the defence budget went up at all.
Never. If they didn't wake up now, they never will.
The future of the EU will unironically be in Eastern Europe at this rate. The fricking Intermarium has growing credit to its existence, what a goddamn joke.
Nah, pointless. Any country that didn't immediately raise budgets due to Russia's actions is just done at this point. The inability to raise military budgets showcases the nature of the entire country, what they value and what they will value in the future. >And Italy will get to 1.9% in '28
Yeah, pointless, meaningless. '28, when Russia is already fricking done. None of these countries have the elan or fervour to actually face the future. They're just maintaining themselves.
>They didn't immediately raise budgets
It was impossible to raise budgets because we were caught up in bureaucratic hell due to moronic Italian politics and post-covid reforms. Do you think having moronic commie-compromised peaceniks in your government is easy? Huh? Just because both sides of the US political spectrum spend billions on the military it doesn't mean everyone is that lucky, ok?
>because we were caught up in bureaucratic hell
And that right there shows the future of your country. You yourself said: >Do you think having moronic commie-compromised peaceniks in your government is easy?
This is the equivalent of a man being in his late 70s and having cancer. If a body is that diseased and old, then a body of people in a similiar situation will just as likely be incapable of defeating the internal challenges it poses to itself. Italy is just about done, just as Germany and France are. Anyone with a fair, open eye can see it. Either they collapse into themselves, or are born anew through a fiery challenge as a phoenix would. Looking at these countries, the former is vastly more likely.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh come on don't be a doomer moron now, Italy has been commie adjacent ever since the fall of fascism, we get a break for the first time in nigh 40 years and manage to raise budgets, and then we get "oh but that's not enough" from people who know nothing of the state of our internal politics. Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter, as long as the people recognize who has their interest in mind, they can recover. Jadedness only brings death, if you give up, your enemies win.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter
a quarter of your country is older than 65
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh you know full fricking well what I wanted to say, I'm not talking about the average age of the country, I'm talking about the age of the country itself
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Oh come on don't be a doomer moron now
I'm not a doomer, I'm a realist. People are just completely unwilling to accept decline and degeneration. >and then we get "oh but that's not enough" from people who know nothing of the state of our internal politics.
Yeah, it is not enough. It's the best your entire people could do, and it was not enough. That betrays the core truth about your country. Too old, too decrepit. Incapable of maintaining itself. Like a diseased old man. Arguing that it's because of your past socialists is like a man in in his 60s arguing that the reason he's so weak is because he had a bout of cancers in his 40s. All it means is that he's going to die sooner, that he's weaker than others. All it means for Italy is that the whole country is in its last years and is not going to survive at this rate. >Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter, as long as the people recognize who has their interest in mind, they can recover
Nations are bodies of people and are subject to the same inherent universal rules as bodies themselves are. If your body is riddled with cancer, whether it be a body of people of your individual body, it's going to suffer for it, it's going to die if it spreads enough. But the most important difference is that unlike human bodies, bodies of people these days don't have immune systems. There are no inherently destructive functions in our countries that wipe out cancerous aspects, unlike in our human bodies. There are no killer T-cells, nothing of the sort. Our nations are just basically AIDS patients, waiting to be infected with the one specific Thing that ends up killing it. > Jadedness only brings death, if you give up, your enemies win.
I'm not arguing for anyone to give up. I just wish more people recognized the absolute fricking misery our civilization is in. If people don't recognize the truth, then there's frick-all chance of us ever recovering form our current state.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>it's the best your entire people could do
Except it isn't. If it wasn't for meddling, the budget would've already reached 2 percent next year. You have to understand that, aside from you brazenly comparing nation states to empires, for some reason, and claiming that civilization is doomed when the enemies of civilization are far more incompetent and clownish than our best prospects, things like military budget increases in countries that have suffered war on their soil bring with them old wounds. Don't get me wrong, I WISH we could all be like the US and just okay everything, but unless your GDP crashes or your country defaults, countries don't "die", they might've in the past, but they don't anymore. And so, late is better than never, I know it seems callous and careless, and in a way, it is, but let's just say, thank God our enemies are as incompetent as they are.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>If it wasn't for meddling
This is the same as saying >if it wasn't for the reality we live in
It's meaningless, it's pointless, it's a complete fricking cope. Meddling and opposition will ALWAYS exist. If your system can't handle it, it's a shit system. That's all there is to it. >and claiming that civilization is doomed when the enemies of civilization are far more incompetent and clownish than our best prospects
Our civilization is going to collapse due to its own inability to maintain its energy requirements (decline in fossil fuel EROI). That's all there is to it. The enemies of our civilization are just like virions, diseases, parasites, cancers in a human body. As our body of people weakens due to its own inherent failures, all these malignant aspects will take advantage of it and spread. >countries don't "die", they might've in the past, but they don't anymore
See, that's complete nonsense. That's the Fukuyama style Pax Americana delusion that is bound to collapse on itself. You've lived through the apex of humanity and so you're inherently biased through normality to think it's going to continue. It's not.
https://i.imgur.com/1pEjQb3.jpg
I don't understand your logic, if Russia is gonna be done by '28 then what's the point of raising military budgets? There aren't any threats to fight in the first place.
It's the principle of it. A country that didn't take advantage of this obvious foreign threat to increase its military budget obviously has no true interest in defending itself, or maintaining its own future. Any truly lively country would have used this opportunity to upgrade its military. The countries that didn't are practically ready for the morgue.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>A country that didn't take advantage of this obvious foreign threat to increase its military budget obviously has no true interest in defending itself
Defending itself from what?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Doesn't fricking matter. A lively country would seek to strengthen itself even if those threats weren't present right now. It would use the current war just as an excuse.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Well I think it fricking matters, if there are no threats that money can be used for other matters that are more urgent right now.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>that money can be used for other matters that are more urgent right now.
And that's the attitude of a dying or conflicted country. That's like a person saying they won't go to the gym because they've got more pressing business to attend to, that they can't afford to go lift because they're too busy or exhausted by what they're doing.
That is NOT the attitude of a lively nation with a bright future. Now look at Italy in this case. Is Italy at war? Is Italy in a state where it can't genuinely spend the energy and wealth on its military due to some external circumstance? No, of course not. All of it's internal. Italy is a tired old country that is dying a slow death just like our civilization is. That's all there is to it.
Can you explain how you think those countries are gonna collapse and cease to exist? Like, what's gonna happen, is there gonna be a civil war? Are they gonna be invaded? What would actually cause them to disappear?
I'm just a moron, but: Our Western civilization is going to first off, run out of cheap fossil fuels to maintain itself and the global system of logistics required for its existence. Our civilization is incredibly costly in terms of social complexity and exergy. As those cheap sources of exergy collapse (fossil fuels become harder to get), Everything will get more expensive. The cost of just about anything you can imagine is going to rise and rise and rise. We're already living through the start of it with our current increase in cost of living, the cost of food, the cost of everything. All of it is because the very source of energy our civilization depends on is getting harder to reach. And it's only going to get worse.
This will generally mean that wages won't match up to the cost of living (as they already don't in many places, people need to work two jobs to pay rent!), urban living will become intolerable and impossible, or a 18th-19th century system of urban suffering where child mortality reaches its historical heights. More and more people will be forced out of urban areas into rural regions and toward subsistence farming. It's basically and ultimately a collapse of our entire system of existence.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ok but if the problem is gonna be future lack of fossile fuels, how is increasing military spending gonna help? If anything that would exhaust fossile fuels even faster, since you need more of it to run a larger amount of vehicles. If what you say is true then the only solution seems to be to try and find alternative energy sources, so spending more money on nuclear energy and renewables, rather than just simply increasing military spending.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Ok but if the problem is gonna be future lack of fossile fuels, how is increasing military spending gonna help? If anything that would exhaust fossile fuels even faster, since you need more of it to run a larger amount of vehicles.
Yes. The point is to build up your military before the collapse/SHTF, so when shit goes down, you have the highest possible strength to face it with. > If what you say is true then the only solution seems to be to try and find alternative energy sources
There are none. Nothing on this whole planet can replace oil products, and that's going to be the doom of our entire civilization. >so spending more money on nuclear energy and renewables, rather than just simply increasing military spending.
None of those can match anything close to the Energy Return On Investment of oil. None of those are as convenient as oil products. Nothing we have built or can build will match the sheer energy you can carry in a jerry can of gasoline. The sheer amount of energy in that fricking metal can is something nothing of our tech can even come close to matching. Our entire civilization is doomed because of it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Oh ok, so you think there is no good alternative and eventually every country is gonna fight each other in hopes of getting whatever fossile fuel they have in their reserves, but if what you say is true, then there is no hope, collapse is inevitable, it doesn't matter if you win, say one country manages to defeat all the others and hoard all the remaining fossil fuel on earth, well, what good is that gonna do? Eventually it will run out, and the country will collapse and revert back to a pre-industrial form of civilization.
In the end everything is gonna collapse in your scenario, even the strongest country, it'll just collapse a bit later than the others.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah anon I remember everyone saying that peak oil was in 2006 and that by 2010 gas would be double digit $ per gallon
11 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but I myself genuinely believed that the US economy would collapse when it reached $10 trillion in national debt
It didn't, so clearly $20 trillion is fine, and so is the $30 trillion we just passed, and the $50 trillion by the end of this decade will be too, and the $100 trillion will be nothing to worry about either.
PS this gun I'm playing with went click again so I'm winning at Russian Roulette
11 months ago
Anonymous
Nuclear can just about match coal... IF you can prevent the 5th columnists from playing lawfare games. Of course, EVs have demonstrated the clear superiority of fossil fuels for vehicles (aside from short local commutes), but if you run your power grid on nuclear, then there's plenty of fossil fuels left over for them.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The US has proven that there are plenty of cheap fossil fuels left to be had, thanks in part to fracking. Europe (and the current Administration) just refuses to allow them to be recovered, because windmills or something.
For non-motive energy needs, France and Japan have clearly shown that there are no serious issues with running a power grid on >80% nuclear. And yet, the same forces that decry fossil fuels are also adamantly against nuclear reactors...
11 months ago
Anonymous
Can you explain how you think those countries are gonna collapse and cease to exist? Like, what's gonna happen, is there gonna be a civil war? Are they gonna be invaded? What would actually cause them to disappear?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Our civilization is going to collapse due to its own inability to maintain its energy requirements (decline in fossil fuel EROI).
you
will
die
of
peak
oil
in
6(SIX)
months
>None of these countries have the elan or fervour to actually face the future. They're just maintaining themselves.
or they look at the map and see they are hidden behind several states that act as their bodyguards. most serious problem security wise most western euro states face are rapefugees from the medi which is more of a self inflicted threat then anything forced
I don't understand your logic, if Russia is gonna be done by '28 then what's the point of raising military budgets? There aren't any threats to fight in the first place.
Russia wasn't much of a threat in the 90's either but these moronic autocratic shitholes have a tendency to repeat history. I suppose in Russia's case each incarnation is more decrepit than the last but still. You can't be sure what the security challenges might be 30 from now. Militaries are not built in a year, or even a decade, so nations have to (or at least should) prepare for what might be the reality decades from now. Also, for Europe, the increased security independence from the US is a good thing.
I suppose i am letting my personal convictions (and alcohol) affect my thinking, but i think that a strong and united West is the best solution for dunking on moronic shitholes and other thirdies.
Total CCP death (added to wishlist)
Based Poland.
United States, United Kingdom and Canada should all be at 5% GDP like during the Cold War. The Anglosphere is in a new Cold War with China, Iran, NK and sorta Russia (but they’re in shambles)
How is Turkey 4th last? Aren’t they going full moron with their MIC
They are developing their own fighters ffs. Even “rich” countries like Germany, France and the UK can’t do it on their own
Germanons, you are now on par with the UK defence budget but dont have a nuclear missiles, carriers, F35s or other stuff. Where does the money go? Id like to think land forces but even they arent that much different.
>UK is the only 'big nation' that keeps above 2%
Also I thought they were getting a 50% defence budget boost for this year so they were going up to 3%?
Hahaha. Well that's not going to happen. UK MoD is full of 'but it costs....' and then end up costing more trying to fix the problem. I know your based Defence leader guy wanted 4% but I swear you got 3% total? Is it going up?
Man I wish you Bongs didn't go full moron and ban guns in the 90's, you made some whacky shit I wish I had. Killed your export industry and small arms.
>Under HMT accounting, Defence spending in 2021/22 was £71.4 billion, making it the fifth highest spending area of UK government in 2021/22
We were on for 3% then the world economy went to shit and they settled on £11bn, a telling off and a few questions at how we spent $90bn on shit basically lol >Full moron bans
Alot of people think the same but i doubt it will ever be reversed AI is the best small arms to come out of here and they specialise in you guessed it, bolt actions lol.
To be fair the Navy and Airforce has improved dramatically budget wise, in the sense that buying off shelf when a better product is available or can be produced faster e.g. F35 and the new fleet support ships. Just got to get that through to the old gaurd at the Army the set of bumbling wankers.
I just wish you'd get small arms back. I want a JSL Spitfire. CZ-75 but ambidextrous? Sign me up. Sadly yeah I don't think it will happen. Unless you got some big movement trying to do it. Should try and do what Czech Republic does; you can get whatever you want but you gotta do balls-to-the-walls moronic amount of effort to get it (three exams). Then make you have to renew every year or something. The amount of people willing to do the ass of work would be low therefore the amount of people doing it would be low and thus any schizos would be streamed out. Also make it expensive.
Good on Poland for taking defense seriously, but reading about all the procurement madness going on over there i am not really convinced that their economy can take all that. One day there might be a kind of national hangover over the panic spending. Germoney to the rescue i guess?
I wish there were mechanisms in place to enforce that 2% minimum, but then again if there were, it is possible that NATO would not have survived the 30+ years that have passed since the end of the cold war.
I don't know why they get butthurt about it. I've asked a Moravian "Aren't Bohemians and Moravians both a type of Czech?" and he said "Yeah, but..." and then failed to really come up with an argument.
Our entire doctrine is based around getting assfricked until nato arrives, we just accepted the fact that russia is actually unironically willing to assfrick us just out of principle since they were moronic enough to attack a country the size of poland out of pure principle as well, we just bought shit that helps us getting assfricked for longer, and by god I WILL GET ASSFRICKED as long as it takes to help NATO achieve TZD
You see, once upon a time there spawned these things called politicians...
And then it went downhill.
Like seriously, If we were ever invaded, Ill grab my car and a shovel and do my best - compared to what the government will give me, this is the best way I could possibly spend my life
Poland, Lithiania, Hungary, Latvia, and Slovak Republic officially in the "Ohfrickohfrickohfrick" club
Honorable mention to Estonia whose hike wasn't as large but that was mainly due to already fnding at a higher level.
Special callout to Luxembourg for being one of the ricest countries in Europe and providing the least.
>"Ohfrickohfrickohfrick" club
Polish admin was trying to ease public opinion into ramping up expenditures before the war with the simulation leak. Do you really need the katzap copium that bad? Russia is not in shape for a NATO war and these things will play out over decades. You might as well claim Poland is preparing solely to ride into a balkanizing Russia control the disintegration and nuke sites.
>Poland taking over russlands
Whats with the russian cope that poles of all people want to take over desolate wastelands ? Wewuz kangs that helds lands the size of ukraine are long gone and most poles realize that and are very happy to receive EU bucks for acting civilized
>Poland is preparing solely to ride into a balkanizing Russia control the disintegration and nuke sites
You knew what you were doing when you typed this
Luxembourg and Ireland infuriate me so much. These shitholes are tax heavens and profit from security from NATO by being in the middle of it despite not contributing anything. Iceland at least has a strategic position and isn't a tax stealing shithole for wannabe israelites.
>Poland spending more percentagewise than the United States
wew laddie. A Texan shed a tear reading this.
2022-2023 were outliers
Poland is rapidly re-arming and modernizing right now, and might drop back down to 2% or even lower by 2026
>might drop back down to 2% or even lower by 2026
Son, our program is aimed at 2034 and we'll keep producing native vehicles at full speed until then.
Those frickers get 50% of their military budget from the EU
>poland
What's up with them, really? It's admirable, but I can't help but feel like they're preparing for something more.
If you spend all that GDP now to acquire gear you don't have to acquire it later.
But why now? Is the Polish military just old and neglected enough for them to need that budget to modernize it?
>The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
Who hates the Poles? I'm European myself, and I'm mostly admiring their military spending. If they can resolve their political bullshit, they're in a very good place to face the future as a modern European power. Compare them to the Germans or the French, and the Poles are obviously better.
They've been due for a modernization cycle for the past 10 years or so, now they finally have the political will to do it and other countries are seeing that they want to become the protector of Europe and want to start investing.
It also helps that their modernization cycle is syncing up with the start of the latest US cycle and South Korea
Poland is the European market to support the effort in the South China Sea.
Really admire the US with how clever they've been with this one.
Its dirlewangergay
>If they can resolve their political bullshit
Good thing 99% of them are white
Poolacks know they're next and they're terrified of Russia. And the best part? The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
Weak bait
>Poolacks know they're next and they're terrified of Russia. And the best part? The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
I quite like the Poles. At least they are Catholic.
Do it then, I'm still waiting. Oh wait, you won't
t.Pole
>The West will abandon them 100% because everyone hates poolacks
Is this the new cope? I can understand abandoning Baltics, for a time, because we're very tricky to defend but Poland? Naw bro
Bongaloid here.
We went to war for Poland before. It cost us the Empire and we were all fine with it.
We will fricking do it again.
I wouldn't worry about it
They're planning to retake their old empire back. Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, and western Russia all the way to the Urals. All with NATO complicity and assistance.
If your nation has been at war with or occupied by Russians multiple times you'd see a Revanchist Russia as serious cause for alarm no matter how woefully incompetent they are.
they along with their northern neighbors are euros frontier states against the asiatic borderland. Belarus is going to be occupied fully at this rate and Ukraine is a entity all on its own.
In war while places like Finland and Estonia will be on mostly defensive operations holding off the attacking hordes, places like Poland and Lithuania must grab the initiative and go on the offensive in reclaiming fifth column hideouts like Konigsberg while defeating and ousting the vatnig army groups in their local area. There is also a real danger of the middle being severed as Latvia suffered heavily from russification programs in the vatnik union and thus is chock full of fifth columnists with a defense structure not taking their own homeland perimeter seriously.
prepping for offensive operations is always more expensive then defensive as you must account for not only the gear, but also repair/replacement capacity which includes entire industrial chains on their own. For german gear for example Germany itself is politically unreliable so you want to either get Rheinmetall estabilishing factories outside it or replace them with willing arms dealers who allows licensing. Like korea or burgers
Finland is not going to be on the defensive. The whole northern flank is a good staging area. There's a lot of US armor in storage under those Norwegian mountains and there's likely going to be a USMC base in Finland, one of the recently abandoned garrisons. We're going to flank to defend the Baltics.
As a new member of Nato Finland will need some new bases. I hear there are some vacant ones just over the border.
Really, all Finland has to do is use its F-35s (or host some USAF ones) to knock out all of the key rail and road bridges connecting Moscow with Murmansk and St. Petersburg. That'd ruin all of the supply lines and commerce in the region.
they're shitting their pants over Russia. Poland is the designated rape victim of europe, and as such they go apeshit when someone starts acting rapey, because they know they're first in line.
Who made that massive cope and denial comic?
Russians. Never relax
Go read about how much the Polish suffered in WW2 because of their inadequately prepared military. Go on, there are some truly nightmarish hellraiser things in there.
My favorite is when the parade got blown up by a German demolition vehicle and it rained blood and gore for several minutes straight.
Post it
Poland is going to take land from the Russians and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
>Greater Poland
Thats just slightly bigger Poland. Greater Poland borders China.
>willingly taking on russian wasteland
lmao your economy is gonna go to shit if you have to financially support that shithole
we'll just expel russians like we did expel germans after ww2.
And still have to bulldoze most of the fricking city since it's ugly as sin
>Verification not required.
My brother in Christ no one here wants Królewiec, it's a fricking slum
>Verification not required.
for years we were postponing modernisation programs while gear was getting older and older - now with most of the old gear in Ukraine there is nothing else left to do - so we buy some new stuff at long last....
They'll be growing.
Anybody who's tasted freedom after suffering the yoke of communism knows that it's a fate worse than death to fall under russian dominion.
Anon for the last century they've spent more time under the chains of someone else. Now they are free and never, ever want a generation raised under (particularly Russian) slavery again.
>What's up with them, really?
And yet Germany or France spends more in absolute numbers than them. A lot more.
Curious.
Polands military on Feb 24 22 was much weaker than Ukraines. In other words, if Russia invaded them, it woulda actually been a 3 day war. They're spooked
Russia is creating a power vacuum. Belarus was just sucked into it. Kaliningrad, parts of Belarus will fall apart, Poland will have to maintain order to keep nukes under control. They are on their modernization cycle and it's political season. They know they can get money from the EU for holding the border. The EU will want democratization reforms in exchange which will happen.
It's Poland. They hustle and based
T. American
Come on Italy, you can do it. Slow and steady gets to 2%.
Poland, I kneel...
>Mfw France, Germany, Italy and Canada
GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, LOSERS
>France voted 30% budget increase for the 2024-2027 budget
Done
>Germany
Wernt they bragging how they were ramping up military again?
Their 100b Euro was an accounting trick so the SPD could claim they met 2% without actually balancing the budget. Nothing has changed.
Our minister of finance hates spending money please understand. He sliced all government budgets across the board. It’s a miracle the defence budget went up at all.
Poland-san..
>Greece
PAY
DENTS!
It’s like a tiny Texas with perogies.
Also, frick you western europian fricksticks. Pay your fricking dues you absolute pieces of shit.
>sub 2%ers
Lighting fires under asses when?
It's a start anon, the euro must remember how to fight before we can expect them to quadruple military spending to 4%
Never. If they didn't wake up now, they never will.
The future of the EU will unironically be in Eastern Europe at this rate. The fricking Intermarium has growing credit to its existence, what a goddamn joke.
Well to be fair
And Italy will get to 1.9% in '28, not to mention the funds allotted to developing the GCAP and other stuff.
Nah, pointless. Any country that didn't immediately raise budgets due to Russia's actions is just done at this point. The inability to raise military budgets showcases the nature of the entire country, what they value and what they will value in the future.
>And Italy will get to 1.9% in '28
Yeah, pointless, meaningless. '28, when Russia is already fricking done. None of these countries have the elan or fervour to actually face the future. They're just maintaining themselves.
>They didn't immediately raise budgets
It was impossible to raise budgets because we were caught up in bureaucratic hell due to moronic Italian politics and post-covid reforms. Do you think having moronic commie-compromised peaceniks in your government is easy? Huh? Just because both sides of the US political spectrum spend billions on the military it doesn't mean everyone is that lucky, ok?
>because we were caught up in bureaucratic hell
And that right there shows the future of your country. You yourself said:
>Do you think having moronic commie-compromised peaceniks in your government is easy?
This is the equivalent of a man being in his late 70s and having cancer. If a body is that diseased and old, then a body of people in a similiar situation will just as likely be incapable of defeating the internal challenges it poses to itself. Italy is just about done, just as Germany and France are. Anyone with a fair, open eye can see it. Either they collapse into themselves, or are born anew through a fiery challenge as a phoenix would. Looking at these countries, the former is vastly more likely.
Oh come on don't be a doomer moron now, Italy has been commie adjacent ever since the fall of fascism, we get a break for the first time in nigh 40 years and manage to raise budgets, and then we get "oh but that's not enough" from people who know nothing of the state of our internal politics. Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter, as long as the people recognize who has their interest in mind, they can recover. Jadedness only brings death, if you give up, your enemies win.
>Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter
a quarter of your country is older than 65
Oh you know full fricking well what I wanted to say, I'm not talking about the average age of the country, I'm talking about the age of the country itself
>Oh come on don't be a doomer moron now
I'm not a doomer, I'm a realist. People are just completely unwilling to accept decline and degeneration.
>and then we get "oh but that's not enough" from people who know nothing of the state of our internal politics.
Yeah, it is not enough. It's the best your entire people could do, and it was not enough. That betrays the core truth about your country. Too old, too decrepit. Incapable of maintaining itself. Like a diseased old man. Arguing that it's because of your past socialists is like a man in in his 60s arguing that the reason he's so weak is because he had a bout of cancers in his 40s. All it means is that he's going to die sooner, that he's weaker than others. All it means for Italy is that the whole country is in its last years and is not going to survive at this rate.
>Nations aren't people, their "age" doesn't matter, as long as the people recognize who has their interest in mind, they can recover
Nations are bodies of people and are subject to the same inherent universal rules as bodies themselves are. If your body is riddled with cancer, whether it be a body of people of your individual body, it's going to suffer for it, it's going to die if it spreads enough. But the most important difference is that unlike human bodies, bodies of people these days don't have immune systems. There are no inherently destructive functions in our countries that wipe out cancerous aspects, unlike in our human bodies. There are no killer T-cells, nothing of the sort. Our nations are just basically AIDS patients, waiting to be infected with the one specific Thing that ends up killing it.
> Jadedness only brings death, if you give up, your enemies win.
I'm not arguing for anyone to give up. I just wish more people recognized the absolute fricking misery our civilization is in. If people don't recognize the truth, then there's frick-all chance of us ever recovering form our current state.
>it's the best your entire people could do
Except it isn't. If it wasn't for meddling, the budget would've already reached 2 percent next year. You have to understand that, aside from you brazenly comparing nation states to empires, for some reason, and claiming that civilization is doomed when the enemies of civilization are far more incompetent and clownish than our best prospects, things like military budget increases in countries that have suffered war on their soil bring with them old wounds. Don't get me wrong, I WISH we could all be like the US and just okay everything, but unless your GDP crashes or your country defaults, countries don't "die", they might've in the past, but they don't anymore. And so, late is better than never, I know it seems callous and careless, and in a way, it is, but let's just say, thank God our enemies are as incompetent as they are.
>If it wasn't for meddling
This is the same as saying
>if it wasn't for the reality we live in
It's meaningless, it's pointless, it's a complete fricking cope. Meddling and opposition will ALWAYS exist. If your system can't handle it, it's a shit system. That's all there is to it.
>and claiming that civilization is doomed when the enemies of civilization are far more incompetent and clownish than our best prospects
Our civilization is going to collapse due to its own inability to maintain its energy requirements (decline in fossil fuel EROI). That's all there is to it. The enemies of our civilization are just like virions, diseases, parasites, cancers in a human body. As our body of people weakens due to its own inherent failures, all these malignant aspects will take advantage of it and spread.
>countries don't "die", they might've in the past, but they don't anymore
See, that's complete nonsense. That's the Fukuyama style Pax Americana delusion that is bound to collapse on itself. You've lived through the apex of humanity and so you're inherently biased through normality to think it's going to continue. It's not.
It's the principle of it. A country that didn't take advantage of this obvious foreign threat to increase its military budget obviously has no true interest in defending itself, or maintaining its own future. Any truly lively country would have used this opportunity to upgrade its military. The countries that didn't are practically ready for the morgue.
>A country that didn't take advantage of this obvious foreign threat to increase its military budget obviously has no true interest in defending itself
Defending itself from what?
Doesn't fricking matter. A lively country would seek to strengthen itself even if those threats weren't present right now. It would use the current war just as an excuse.
Well I think it fricking matters, if there are no threats that money can be used for other matters that are more urgent right now.
>that money can be used for other matters that are more urgent right now.
And that's the attitude of a dying or conflicted country. That's like a person saying they won't go to the gym because they've got more pressing business to attend to, that they can't afford to go lift because they're too busy or exhausted by what they're doing.
That is NOT the attitude of a lively nation with a bright future. Now look at Italy in this case. Is Italy at war? Is Italy in a state where it can't genuinely spend the energy and wealth on its military due to some external circumstance? No, of course not. All of it's internal. Italy is a tired old country that is dying a slow death just like our civilization is. That's all there is to it.
I'm just a moron, but: Our Western civilization is going to first off, run out of cheap fossil fuels to maintain itself and the global system of logistics required for its existence. Our civilization is incredibly costly in terms of social complexity and exergy. As those cheap sources of exergy collapse (fossil fuels become harder to get), Everything will get more expensive. The cost of just about anything you can imagine is going to rise and rise and rise. We're already living through the start of it with our current increase in cost of living, the cost of food, the cost of everything. All of it is because the very source of energy our civilization depends on is getting harder to reach. And it's only going to get worse.
This will generally mean that wages won't match up to the cost of living (as they already don't in many places, people need to work two jobs to pay rent!), urban living will become intolerable and impossible, or a 18th-19th century system of urban suffering where child mortality reaches its historical heights. More and more people will be forced out of urban areas into rural regions and toward subsistence farming. It's basically and ultimately a collapse of our entire system of existence.
Ok but if the problem is gonna be future lack of fossile fuels, how is increasing military spending gonna help? If anything that would exhaust fossile fuels even faster, since you need more of it to run a larger amount of vehicles. If what you say is true then the only solution seems to be to try and find alternative energy sources, so spending more money on nuclear energy and renewables, rather than just simply increasing military spending.
>Ok but if the problem is gonna be future lack of fossile fuels, how is increasing military spending gonna help? If anything that would exhaust fossile fuels even faster, since you need more of it to run a larger amount of vehicles.
Yes. The point is to build up your military before the collapse/SHTF, so when shit goes down, you have the highest possible strength to face it with.
> If what you say is true then the only solution seems to be to try and find alternative energy sources
There are none. Nothing on this whole planet can replace oil products, and that's going to be the doom of our entire civilization.
>so spending more money on nuclear energy and renewables, rather than just simply increasing military spending.
None of those can match anything close to the Energy Return On Investment of oil. None of those are as convenient as oil products. Nothing we have built or can build will match the sheer energy you can carry in a jerry can of gasoline. The sheer amount of energy in that fricking metal can is something nothing of our tech can even come close to matching. Our entire civilization is doomed because of it.
Oh ok, so you think there is no good alternative and eventually every country is gonna fight each other in hopes of getting whatever fossile fuel they have in their reserves, but if what you say is true, then there is no hope, collapse is inevitable, it doesn't matter if you win, say one country manages to defeat all the others and hoard all the remaining fossil fuel on earth, well, what good is that gonna do? Eventually it will run out, and the country will collapse and revert back to a pre-industrial form of civilization.
In the end everything is gonna collapse in your scenario, even the strongest country, it'll just collapse a bit later than the others.
Yeah anon I remember everyone saying that peak oil was in 2006 and that by 2010 gas would be double digit $ per gallon
NTA but I myself genuinely believed that the US economy would collapse when it reached $10 trillion in national debt
It didn't, so clearly $20 trillion is fine, and so is the $30 trillion we just passed, and the $50 trillion by the end of this decade will be too, and the $100 trillion will be nothing to worry about either.
PS this gun I'm playing with went click again so I'm winning at Russian Roulette
Nuclear can just about match coal... IF you can prevent the 5th columnists from playing lawfare games. Of course, EVs have demonstrated the clear superiority of fossil fuels for vehicles (aside from short local commutes), but if you run your power grid on nuclear, then there's plenty of fossil fuels left over for them.
The US has proven that there are plenty of cheap fossil fuels left to be had, thanks in part to fracking. Europe (and the current Administration) just refuses to allow them to be recovered, because windmills or something.
For non-motive energy needs, France and Japan have clearly shown that there are no serious issues with running a power grid on >80% nuclear. And yet, the same forces that decry fossil fuels are also adamantly against nuclear reactors...
Can you explain how you think those countries are gonna collapse and cease to exist? Like, what's gonna happen, is there gonna be a civil war? Are they gonna be invaded? What would actually cause them to disappear?
>Our civilization is going to collapse due to its own inability to maintain its energy requirements (decline in fossil fuel EROI).
you
will
die
of
peak
oil
in
6(SIX)
months
>None of these countries have the elan or fervour to actually face the future. They're just maintaining themselves.
or they look at the map and see they are hidden behind several states that act as their bodyguards. most serious problem security wise most western euro states face are rapefugees from the medi which is more of a self inflicted threat then anything forced
I don't understand your logic, if Russia is gonna be done by '28 then what's the point of raising military budgets? There aren't any threats to fight in the first place.
Russia wasn't much of a threat in the 90's either but these moronic autocratic shitholes have a tendency to repeat history. I suppose in Russia's case each incarnation is more decrepit than the last but still. You can't be sure what the security challenges might be 30 from now. Militaries are not built in a year, or even a decade, so nations have to (or at least should) prepare for what might be the reality decades from now. Also, for Europe, the increased security independence from the US is a good thing.
I suppose i am letting my personal convictions (and alcohol) affect my thinking, but i think that a strong and united West is the best solution for dunking on moronic shitholes and other thirdies.
Total CCP death (added to wishlist)
No, if you remind Germany they're parasites then you are a Russian agent.
In all honesty, America would lose a lot if the Europeans were competitors on the geopolitic fronts that could back themselves up with hard power.
>lithuania waking up on the 24th of february, 2022
>be litwak
>see livestreams of cruise missiles hitting shit
>regret not joining the army 10 years prior
At least my tax euros are doing something
All the fricking autistic shamen and druids decided they needed ARs and were prepared to spend that bloodshot buttery gold
why does Poland even get EU gibs
seems like they dont need it
>Czech Republic and Slovakia
>now Czechia and Slovak Republic
what is this squaredance bullshit?
>Poland using EU gibs to spend on their military
I'm about it.
Based Poland.
United States, United Kingdom and Canada should all be at 5% GDP like during the Cold War. The Anglosphere is in a new Cold War with China, Iran, NK and sorta Russia (but they’re in shambles)
>Canada
Like Trudeau is going to stand with the Anglosphere
How is Turkey 4th last? Aren’t they going full moron with their MIC
They are developing their own fighters ffs. Even “rich” countries like Germany, France and the UK can’t do it on their own
Its based on 2015 inflation rate. Turkey's inflation rate skyrocketed.
Germanons, you are now on par with the UK defence budget but dont have a nuclear missiles, carriers, F35s or other stuff. Where does the money go? Id like to think land forces but even they arent that much different.
It goes into Hans and Rudolf filling out 3 trillion pages of paperwork which get thrown in the trash at the end of the year.
GO LUXEMBOURG! (Cheering the underdog here)
>UK is the only 'big nation' that keeps above 2%
Also I thought they were getting a 50% defence budget boost for this year so they were going up to 3%?
Nah we got an extra £11bn and the MoD got told to fix procurment.
Hahaha. Well that's not going to happen. UK MoD is full of 'but it costs....' and then end up costing more trying to fix the problem. I know your based Defence leader guy wanted 4% but I swear you got 3% total? Is it going up?
Man I wish you Bongs didn't go full moron and ban guns in the 90's, you made some whacky shit I wish I had. Killed your export industry and small arms.
>Under HMT accounting, Defence spending in 2021/22 was £71.4 billion, making it the fifth highest spending area of UK government in 2021/22
We were on for 3% then the world economy went to shit and they settled on £11bn, a telling off and a few questions at how we spent $90bn on shit basically lol
>Full moron bans
Alot of people think the same but i doubt it will ever be reversed AI is the best small arms to come out of here and they specialise in you guessed it, bolt actions lol.
To be fair the Navy and Airforce has improved dramatically budget wise, in the sense that buying off shelf when a better product is available or can be produced faster e.g. F35 and the new fleet support ships. Just got to get that through to the old gaurd at the Army the set of bumbling wankers.
I just wish you'd get small arms back. I want a JSL Spitfire. CZ-75 but ambidextrous? Sign me up. Sadly yeah I don't think it will happen. Unless you got some big movement trying to do it. Should try and do what Czech Republic does; you can get whatever you want but you gotta do balls-to-the-walls moronic amount of effort to get it (three exams). Then make you have to renew every year or something. The amount of people willing to do the ass of work would be low therefore the amount of people doing it would be low and thus any schizos would be streamed out. Also make it expensive.
I know the US has got one of the new AI rifles.
I know they don't technically have a military but where's iceland?
poland has acquired shitloads of dakka. it's honestly impressive. only few countries take their defence seriously and NATO is full of free loaders.
Trump was right, Russia can have a chimpout and yuros still wont spend the money to save themselves
Let's go boys
Good on Poland for taking defense seriously, but reading about all the procurement madness going on over there i am not really convinced that their economy can take all that. One day there might be a kind of national hangover over the panic spending. Germoney to the rescue i guess?
I wish there were mechanisms in place to enforce that 2% minimum, but then again if there were, it is possible that NATO would not have survived the 30+ years that have passed since the end of the cold war.
>figures for 2023 are estimates
Then what's the point of this graph if they're just making it up? Stupid thread op.
>Czechia
uh oh Moravians won't like this one
I don't know why they get butthurt about it. I've asked a Moravian "Aren't Bohemians and Moravians both a type of Czech?" and he said "Yeah, but..." and then failed to really come up with an argument.
Given how rich Luxembourg is we should definitely kick them the frick out. Cheeky c**ts
they should also post defence dollars per capita and defence dollars per troop capita
Actually kind of surprised that Turkey's spending is so low
Zisters, I thought if Trump won Ukraine will ran out of support, what do we do now?
Amazing work on Putin's part.
Go go little pole..
>all 3 baltic states in top 3
TZD baltbros
top 10, I got eager and excited for TZD sorry :DDD
Our entire doctrine is based around getting assfricked until nato arrives, we just accepted the fact that russia is actually unironically willing to assfrick us just out of principle since they were moronic enough to attack a country the size of poland out of pure principle as well, we just bought shit that helps us getting assfricked for longer, and by god I WILL GET ASSFRICKED as long as it takes to help NATO achieve TZD
Sub 2%ers tongue my anus
>Norway is a disgrace
>I am an employee of the Nor armed forced
>fuggin hell.
Tell us, how is it even possible nordbro?
You see, once upon a time there spawned these things called politicians...
And then it went downhill.
Like seriously, If we were ever invaded, Ill grab my car and a shovel and do my best - compared to what the government will give me, this is the best way I could possibly spend my life
>all those eastern european shitholes <2%
banan?
>tfw spaniard
feels good being a freeloader :^)
Moscow or bust
thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuQNEPQMzQ
>UK at 2%
But where? Where is the money going?
what is hungary fricking planning?
>they don't realize it's gonna be 6% before long
Poland, Lithiania, Hungary, Latvia, and Slovak Republic officially in the "Ohfrickohfrickohfrick" club
Honorable mention to Estonia whose hike wasn't as large but that was mainly due to already fnding at a higher level.
Special callout to Luxembourg for being one of the ricest countries in Europe and providing the least.
>"Ohfrickohfrickohfrick" club
Polish admin was trying to ease public opinion into ramping up expenditures before the war with the simulation leak. Do you really need the katzap copium that bad? Russia is not in shape for a NATO war and these things will play out over decades. You might as well claim Poland is preparing solely to ride into a balkanizing Russia control the disintegration and nuke sites.
>Poland taking over russlands
Whats with the russian cope that poles of all people want to take over desolate wastelands ? Wewuz kangs that helds lands the size of ukraine are long gone and most poles realize that and are very happy to receive EU bucks for acting civilized
>Poland is preparing solely to ride into a balkanizing Russia control the disintegration and nuke sites
You knew what you were doing when you typed this
O kurwa, look an intact topol-m ja pirdole
>.t grom operative
I dont know what the frick is this timeline but im starting to enjoy it
Luxembourg and Ireland infuriate me so much. These shitholes are tax heavens and profit from security from NATO by being in the middle of it despite not contributing anything. Iceland at least has a strategic position and isn't a tax stealing shithole for wannabe israelites.
need more proof, europoors?
I count 10 euro countries whose promises are worth something. Rest are dickless cucks
>monke is truly a master strategist.
Slovak just makes it in with the good boy points. Everyone beneath that line is so cringe.
>US expenditure is less
Looooooool
>US expenditure is less
It's more in dollar terms, even inflation adjusted.
>Hungary