What's up /k/omrades, I have an antique firearms question. My father in law has an antique German muzzleloader that's probably from the 19th century. I'm not sure the model, can anyone identify this? Any idea how much it's worth?
Thanks yall
* ~ Mystery Muzzleloader ~ *
Look on the barrel for any markings and post those
Guns like that will usually be marked under the barrels.
To access the marks:
1) remove ramrod
2) wiener hammers
3) loosen the wedge in the forend by tapping on the narrow end of it with a small hammer, once it's loose pull it out
4) the barrels should hinge up and out of the stock
Now look at the part of the barrels the stock previously had covered up, and inside the stock where the barrels covered the wood. Markings are likely in both places, especially on the barrels.
Another important piece of information: is it smoothbore or is it rifled?
Based on the size of the ramrod tip in relation to the barrel diameter I’d bet $20 it’s smooth
It probably is but it has a rear sight so I'm not entirely sure. It might be a combination gun.
But I do agree with
in that I don't think it's a conversion.
Late 18th early flintlock converted to cap lock, probably homemade and, judging from the missing trigger guard, wrecked mechanically
Worth :
100€/$ in a non moron law country
I don't think that's a conversion, I think that's some bizarre kind of action. There's no sign of where the flintlock touch hole would have been--no "drum" as is typical on flintlock conversions. The engraving on the hammers and other parts is a really good match for the lockplates. The gun also has really serious fences with huge side clips which doesn't really make sense for a conversion.
>flintlock converted to cap lock
100% incorrect, that shotgun has been percussion its entire life. Where is the touch hole supposed to have been if it was originally flint?
>judging from the missing trigger guard, wrecked mechanically
Fancy German/Austrian style hunting guns from that era often had trigger guards made from horn. That would match given the fancy twist barrels & the elaborate carving on the stock. Those triggerguards are easily broken, especially decades later, so it being missing doesn't say much about the condition of anything else.
>I'm not sure the model
"Models" didn't exist back then, unless you're talking about military arms which had standard patterns. That's obviously not a military weapon thus there is no "model".
It's definitely 19th century, and that was an expensive gun when it was new. Triggerguard is missing. This needs to be looked at by an expert. I could help if it was English, but I'm not up to speed on the German/Austrian makers, but I can see it's not a piece of junk.
post barrel
less than I thought.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-w-edel-leipzig-a-10-bore-percussion-double-barr-542-c-b0c498792e
i'd buy it from my uncle at that price.
damas de what now?
goddamn I'm going blind
Damas De Turk I think.....
1860s worth several thousand that
https://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/auktion/hhm54.pl?db=kat54_s.txt&f=ZAEHLER&c=68&t=temartic_S_GB&co=1
very similar
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=240123&an=0&page=6#Post240123
beautiful gun OP lucky you! nicest gun I have seen on here in a long time
a picture of the muzzles would be very informative.
have you run the ramrod down the barrel to make sure it's unloaded? just an idea.
Forgot that step lmao, I just yolo'd it, figured that it was so old it probably wouldn't blow up in my face....
>have you run the ramrod down the barrel to make sure it's unloaded? just an idea.
good advise about 1 in 20 I find are especially hunting guns
got a measurement tool? what about is the bore? Seems like .58 caliber was common, but that looks bigger.
This is actually a bit of an oddity, IMHO. It's rifled, but it also has very thin walls. That's an odd combination, it suggests that it is a ball-and-shot gun as a proper double rifle would have a smaller bore and thicker walls. But those were generally cartridge guns, whereas this is a muzzleloader.
Yes. I'm not very familiar with German/Austrian gunmaking, but I've heard Damascus referred to as "Turkish Twist" before, it's probably some analog of that.
>very thin walls
They're about right for a black powder musket or shotgun though. Yeah this is rifled, but I bet it took a load similar to a shotgun or musket, with a bullet that big it's gonna do plenty of damage even with a fairly light charge. This was probably intended for boar.
>musket or shotgun though
Which one? Rifled muskets normally had a much thicker barrel wall. It certainly seems about the same thickness as a ball-and-shot gun, but those weren't really a thing until 1885 (i.e. Col. Fosberry's famous "Paradox" patent), but that was a very late date to be building a percussion gun.
I will never forgive the krauts for making me theoretically lose $20
OP if you are not baiting you have found a 'sleeper' worth at a minimum a couple of thousand dollars and quite possibly more please do not use any chemicals or wire or brass wools, solvents etc on it.I'm jealous!
OP note that some of those auction results are a decade ago so with inflation it is worth a good bit more now.
>I'd say it's a shotgun
Of course we know it's a rifle now that OP posted pics of the muzzle so this is all hindsight, but there are two other ways to suspect that. First you can see it has a rear sight, those usually only appear on rifles or combination guns. The shape of the front sight suggests rifle as well, if that were a shotgun there would either be no sight at all or just a simple bead. Second clue is the engraving scene with the dog chasing a stag. Guns of that era were usually engraved with scenes that matched their intended use, so a shotgun would be more likely to be engraved with scenes of birds or small game like rabbits and squirrels. Seeing large animals in the engraving usually implies a rifle.