* ~ Mystery Muzzleloader ~ *

What's up /k/omrades, I have an antique firearms question. My father in law has an antique German muzzleloader that's probably from the 19th century. I'm not sure the model, can anyone identify this? Any idea how much it's worth?

Thanks yall

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Look on the barrel for any markings and post those

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Guns like that will usually be marked under the barrels.

      To access the marks:
      1) remove ramrod
      2) wiener hammers
      3) loosen the wedge in the forend by tapping on the narrow end of it with a small hammer, once it's loose pull it out
      4) the barrels should hinge up and out of the stock
      Now look at the part of the barrels the stock previously had covered up, and inside the stock where the barrels covered the wood. Markings are likely in both places, especially on the barrels.

      Another important piece of information: is it smoothbore or is it rifled?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Based on the size of the ramrod tip in relation to the barrel diameter I’d bet $20 it’s smooth

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It probably is but it has a rear sight so I'm not entirely sure. It might be a combination gun.

          But I do agree with

          I don't think that's a conversion, I think that's some bizarre kind of action. There's no sign of where the flintlock touch hole would have been--no "drum" as is typical on flintlock conversions. The engraving on the hammers and other parts is a really good match for the lockplates. The gun also has really serious fences with huge side clips which doesn't really make sense for a conversion.

          in that I don't think it's a conversion.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Late 18th early flintlock converted to cap lock, probably homemade and, judging from the missing trigger guard, wrecked mechanically

    Worth :
    100€/$ in a non moron law country

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think that's a conversion, I think that's some bizarre kind of action. There's no sign of where the flintlock touch hole would have been--no "drum" as is typical on flintlock conversions. The engraving on the hammers and other parts is a really good match for the lockplates. The gun also has really serious fences with huge side clips which doesn't really make sense for a conversion.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >flintlock converted to cap lock
      100% incorrect, that shotgun has been percussion its entire life. Where is the touch hole supposed to have been if it was originally flint?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >judging from the missing trigger guard, wrecked mechanically
      Fancy German/Austrian style hunting guns from that era often had trigger guards made from horn. That would match given the fancy twist barrels & the elaborate carving on the stock. Those triggerguards are easily broken, especially decades later, so it being missing doesn't say much about the condition of anything else.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm not sure the model
    "Models" didn't exist back then, unless you're talking about military arms which had standard patterns. That's obviously not a military weapon thus there is no "model".

    It's definitely 19th century, and that was an expensive gun when it was new. Triggerguard is missing. This needs to be looked at by an expert. I could help if it was English, but I'm not up to speed on the German/Austrian makers, but I can see it's not a piece of junk.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    post barrel

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        less than I thought.
        https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-w-edel-leipzig-a-10-bore-percussion-double-barr-542-c-b0c498792e
        i'd buy it from my uncle at that price.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        damas de what now?
        goddamn I'm going blind

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Damas De Turk I think.....

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        1860s worth several thousand that

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/auktion/hhm54.pl?db=kat54_s.txt&f=ZAEHLER&c=68&t=temartic_S_GB&co=1

        very similar

        http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=240123&an=0&page=6#Post240123

        beautiful gun OP lucky you! nicest gun I have seen on here in a long time

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    a picture of the muzzles would be very informative.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        have you run the ramrod down the barrel to make sure it's unloaded? just an idea.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Forgot that step lmao, I just yolo'd it, figured that it was so old it probably wouldn't blow up in my face....

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >have you run the ramrod down the barrel to make sure it's unloaded? just an idea.
          good advise about 1 in 20 I find are especially hunting guns

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        got a measurement tool? what about is the bore? Seems like .58 caliber was common, but that looks bigger.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This is actually a bit of an oddity, IMHO. It's rifled, but it also has very thin walls. That's an odd combination, it suggests that it is a ball-and-shot gun as a proper double rifle would have a smaller bore and thicker walls. But those were generally cartridge guns, whereas this is a muzzleloader.

        Damas De Turk I think.....

        Yes. I'm not very familiar with German/Austrian gunmaking, but I've heard Damascus referred to as "Turkish Twist" before, it's probably some analog of that.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >very thin walls
          They're about right for a black powder musket or shotgun though. Yeah this is rifled, but I bet it took a load similar to a shotgun or musket, with a bullet that big it's gonna do plenty of damage even with a fairly light charge. This was probably intended for boar.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >musket or shotgun though
            Which one? Rifled muskets normally had a much thicker barrel wall. It certainly seems about the same thickness as a ball-and-shot gun, but those weren't really a thing until 1885 (i.e. Col. Fosberry's famous "Paradox" patent), but that was a very late date to be building a percussion gun.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I will never forgive the krauts for making me theoretically lose $20

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    OP if you are not baiting you have found a 'sleeper' worth at a minimum a couple of thousand dollars and quite possibly more please do not use any chemicals or wire or brass wools, solvents etc on it.I'm jealous!

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    OP note that some of those auction results are a decade ago so with inflation it is worth a good bit more now.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >I'd say it's a shotgun
    Of course we know it's a rifle now that OP posted pics of the muzzle so this is all hindsight, but there are two other ways to suspect that. First you can see it has a rear sight, those usually only appear on rifles or combination guns. The shape of the front sight suggests rifle as well, if that were a shotgun there would either be no sight at all or just a simple bead. Second clue is the engraving scene with the dog chasing a stag. Guns of that era were usually engraved with scenes that matched their intended use, so a shotgun would be more likely to be engraved with scenes of birds or small game like rabbits and squirrels. Seeing large animals in the engraving usually implies a rifle.

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