>Too large to pocket carry in most situations
>Much harder to shoot accurately when compared to larger guns that can still be easily concealed IWB
>Tend to be more expensive than other CCW options
Remind me again why these have gotten so popular? And I'm not shitting on the sig specifically, this goes for all micro 9s
browning had many enemies in his life whose children hate him and his legacy to this day. they successfully meme'd 380 ACP into a woman's cartridge despite it being far superior in that size of a gun for basically everything especially now that suppressors are common. these same people tried to do the same with the 45ACP but that's proving to be much harder than they anticipated.
>t. knower. please don't ask me to reveal any more because it would be a huge risk.
>Mormon small arms enshittification conspiracies (do NOT research)
I would like to know more.
Same reason .38 Super is memed as a Mexican round, despite being superior to 9mm.
superior on paper, meanwhile you're still arguing about holes maybe .2 in larger with some batter penetration (I'm which case you get to the actual interesting argument about carrying ball ammo but you're frankly too brainlet for that)
>holes maybe .2 larger
>38 super vs 380 vs 9mm, all .355 cartridges
noguns detected
.45ACP is a bastard child, the result of Army affair and doesn't belong to Browning family. You should instead turn your attention to .38 super (born .38 ACP) , who was first forgotten and then memed as mexican round by the same fudds.
Whats a good 380 pocket pistol? LCP? Bredda Pico de Gallo?
It depends on you and your pockets. I bought an LCP a long time ago because of how easy it was to carry, but it felt cheap, rusted easily, and I hated shooting it. I pocket carry a p365 now, which is much heavier, but still surprisingly easy to pocket carry if you aren’t wearing blue jeans.
Even a Bersa Thunder is a good 380, and that gun is pretty much a POS. 380 doesn't need to be that "high end" spec, which it kinda makes it a perfect caliber in that regard tbh.
>Even a Bersa Thunder is a good 380, and that gun is pretty much a POS
I've heard nothing but good things about them. Where do they fall behind?
Cheap mass produced consoomer garbage.
I’ve fired both of these pistols. The 80X cheetah makes you feel like you can’t miss. The P365xl just doesn’t inspire the confidence.
13rds of .380 exactly where you want em vs 12 rounds of 9mm that might be a little off the mark.
This post exactly. Caliber is far less meaningful than accuracy when it comes to handguns. Generally speaking, handgun rounds of any caliber just aren't all that substantial. Accuracy is integral to their stopping power. 12 rounds of .380 in center mass is gonna frick up the bad guy's day a lot more than 2 rounds of a higher caliber in his arm and 10 in innocent bystanders.
>and 10 in innocent bystanders.
No one is really innocent. That's why I love 10mm.
Miami Dade showed that caliber is important. 9mm isn't strong enough to reach someone's heart through their arm. You need 40s&w at the minimum.
9mm hollow points have improved in the past 40 years. Plenty of 9mm loads meet fbi minimums for penetration. There's even 380 loads that meet fbi mins.
Yes well Paul Harrell replicated the shooting with modern 9mm and it still wasn't adequate: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LTTDgZZZFa0
I was falling into that caliber trap until I got to shoot my g42 at a friend's house, which meant I could do stuff they don't allow on the range. I ripped off a bill drill that felt absolutely amazing. Kept all 6 in the a zone like it was nothing. I hadn't shot the thing in awhile so I was impressed. I tried the same thing with the G17 and it was quite a bit more difficult despite the g17 being twice as large and twice as heavy. Most people can't swallow their pride and carry a "wimpy" caliber, which is hilarious because 10yrs ago 9mm was the wimp caliber. Whatever, at least .380 is still very popular, even if it's for guns that should be chambered in .32acp like the LCP.
>a gun chambered in a weaker round with less felt recoil is easer to shoot than a typical micro 9
wow, what revolutionary insight!
You simpleton.
https://gundigest.com/gun-reviews/handguns-reviews/beretta-80x-cheetah-review
Anon, did you have any issues similar to the lockup the author was experiencing? How much was your 80X? Does it indeed feed any bullet type reliably? Looks like an interesting pistol, much more so than the 365
9mm Good
Sorry sweaty, 9mm isn't really lethal enough to kill a modern man, the round is so small and weak it'll just bounce off if it hits bone and can't make it through dairy fed skin.
You ever watched that show first 48? Its like always 9mm and 380. Groids love those rounds. It will keeeel
Black folk have abysmal shots/hits and hits/kills ratios. Their input is about as useful as a liberal woman's.
Im just saying. Watch that show, its crazy how almost every episode people are killing each other with 9mm. Sometimes its a 380 or a 40 or a 223. Ive even seen a 22 on one episode
This. It only exists for people who can’t handle recoil. Like women and Europeans
%3D%3D
Why do people with bad opinions post?
what's their end goal?
'bad opinions' go back to pledddit
They aren't hard to shoot though. If you posted an old lc9 where the trigger is stapler and the sights almost non existent sure, but not in the current era.
They're also cheaper than their equivalent compact/full size. What is cheaper? The micro .380's which occupy a whole different niche?
Take a p365 in 9mm and one in .380 to the range. The difference in recoil is night and day. Shooting very slowly at a target at 5yds won't show you much of a difference. Letting them rip as fast as possible will.
>too large to pocket carry
Really? I have an m&p9 shield and can fit it in the back pocket of my jeans
Do you wear some boomer tier baggy construction jeans because there's no way that 9 shield will fit in a normal modern/slim fit back pocket
Hes fat and wears cargo shorts with flip flops.
>he wears homosexual skinny jeans
I can pocket carry my CSX
>can't afford a 500 dollar pistol
huh? maybe expensive compared to a piece of shit jennings or ruger or keltec but in no way are they expensive guns
>Slim fit is skinny
Dumb boomer and/or flyover hick
>hurr hick
Cry more cityhomosexual
You probably cant even own one because your homosexual state considers them to be assault weapons
I bet you live in the suburbs of your states biggest metro area
I just buy jeans, I don’t know every single type you fricking homosexual
They’re work clothes
theyre literally sorted by type at the store, are you moronic? pay attention anon
Not the same anon, but he's right jeans are jeans. You're a gay for knowing all the different types.
>look how manly i am! im completely ignorant of clothing!
City fricker here. Skinny jeans aren't liked by people from the cities or the country, and only tiktokker wannabes like you wear them.
Let me guess you are a tradey or a larper. Get a fricking job where its business casual dumbfrick then see how big or baggy you fricking pockets are. Stupid dipshit.
Dress slacks tend to have bigger pockets than modern jeans. Especially if it's like wrangler or levis. I'm sorry you're built like a twink. Now bend over and let me get sum fuk.
I make close to 6 figures with only one year of experience so no.
If you even wear anything other than regular fit pants, you’re already a lost cause.
I did that with a P365 and my big butt bent the frame or something so I can't disassemble it anymore. No, I'm not kidding, wish I was.
>you shouldn't pocket carry anyway
>practice more, it's only 9mm. no, larger guns cannot be as easily concealed unless you are a fatass
>stop being poor
gee forty three
Why does the barrel do that thing?
>t. Noguns
It’s a tilting barrel action. Most pistol barrels tilt
What in the... So the barrel actually moves during firing? (or, well, after the bullet has left).
Ive only fired rifles (bolt and select fire), so I figured that the barrels of handguns were fixed as well. I feel stupid now.
Most pistol barrels tilt to unlock. Some pistol barrels are fixed. It just depends; one should never make blanket statements about firearms designs
>one should never make blanket statements about firearms designs
One should ALWAYS make blanket statements about firearms designs. It's the best way to learn about all the exceptions.
It's because 9mm gays are the new boomers. Any projectile less than .356" in diameter has no stopping power to the point that a person might not even realize they've been shot, so additional capacity or shootability is worthless, and anything larger than .356" doesn't have any advantage because stopping power isn't real and capacity is the only thing that matters. Seriously, argue with them enough and you'll see that they just pick whichever argument suits them in the moment with out even trying to be consistent.
what do you carry?
A .380 LCP mostly, but I've carried a cheap .38 special J-frame clone, a Makarov, a Glock 19, and a Colt 1903 pocket hammerless. For me, a small gun for ease of concealment that I don't have to dress around is a priority, but that calculus is different for everyone. That's why I'm so sick of hearing people recommend the same exact gun more or less and in the same caliber to everyone. Caliber should be viewed as a function of how you shoot with a particular gun, following from the characteristics you are looking for in a piece that fits a certain role. I like full size .45s for example, but certainly wouldn't want to try and carry one. If you can carry one and get away with it, more power to you. If you want something smaller, then there is no point sticking with a double stack 9mm if you can't keep it concealed well, or just don't always carry it because it's too inconvenient. When talking about really small guns, .380 is often more shootable than 9mm, and hits count while misses don't. I'm just sick of people trying to establish this minmax one size fits all meta like it's a videogame or something, and lately it's been 9mm gays doing it, just like it was boomers with their old S&W .38s back in the day.
WTF
how are people not able to shoot small 9mm's? it's the grip and fundamentals that put the bullet where it goes. Ballistics is Caliber Specific.
Accuracy is shooter Specific regardless of Caliber.
>WTF
>how are people not able to shoot small 10mms/.45 supers? it's the grip and fundamentals that put the bullet where it goes. Ballistics is Caliber Specific.
>Accuracy is shooter Specific regardless of Caliber.
Recoil in tiny guns sucks. My .38 special J-frame knockoff kicks significantly more than .357 mag out of my Ruger SP101 or my Dad's GP100. I don't even dislike 9mm; I own 4 guns in that caliber and have carried the Glock 19. The thing I dislike is people treating it like a one size fits all. It's like gear checking in an MMO and complaining if someone is the slightest bit off meta, not that everyone does it, but it's annoying when it happens, and it happens too much.
Wait, gear check... could this all indirectly be HIS fault?
I have big hands and compacts feel like shit when you only have two or three fingers gripping the gun
I can shoot a g43 pretty well, but I shoot a g42 much, much better and I don't have to concentrate nearly as hard to do so. Less practice, more fun, and the g42 is like 25% lighter to boot.
>willingly carried a makarov and 1903
Opinion immediately discarded
NTA but what's wrong with carrying a makarov?
No reason to carry one when many better modern options exist for the same price or cheaper. Just screams “look at me I’m different/quirky for carrying a shitty gun”. This board is filled with a bunch of contrarian homosexuals who will tell you the established best choice isn’t actually good and you should carry a full steel handgun with a fraction the capacity.
A lot of these really good choices are pretty recent. Before the Shield you had shit that had completely shit triggers (like the lcp and lc9, as well as the pf9), shit that was significantly more expensive (Kahr c9, Walther PPS), and/or almost non existent sights (lcp, pf9, j frames). Remember Makarovs used to be extremely cheap too, and are very reliable. It would not have been a horrible choice back in the day.
The tiny sights are a feature, not a bug. Sights really like to snag on cloth and at bad breath distance they're of questionable value anyway.
>Sights really like to snag on cloth
no they don't. I've never seen this happen.
You are a liar. You are possibly very unobservant.
>No reason to carry one when many better modern options exist for the same price or cheaper
The Makarov was $150, and that was high when I bought it. Not sure stuff like the LCP or S&W Shield even existed at the time.
>the established best choice isn’t actually good
I'm saying there is no universal best choice. People vary a lot in shooting skill level, what they can successfully conceal, how much they want to spend, and the threats they are likely to face; all of those must be considered when choosing a carry gun.
Everyone would enjoy a news clip of some jogger shot and they pan over to a 1903 Hammerless on the cop car hood.
Did you own a gun before 2020?
>Too large to pocket carry
Good thing I'm not black.
>Much harder to shoot accurately
Non issue for defensive ranges, and is completely negated if you add a dot.
>Tend to be more expensive than other CCW options
My Hellcat was like $100 cheaper than the G19 it replaced.
gonna start shopping for an EDC soon. help me out lads, sig p365x or springfield/hs hellcat ?
Only way to really know is to go to a range and try them out for yourself. Try to think past the honeymoon phase. Your tastes might change once you have some experience. The other thing you need to take into consideration is warranty and customer service. A lot of guns make it through quality control with some kind of issue. No manufacturer is immune to this, so you've got to be able to handle the CS department of your particular gun.
Otherwise, almost all of the guns coming from big name brands are so similar that they are basically the same. Just a difference in preference and flavor. As long as you're buying from a good brand, you should be fine.
i have the hellcat and i like it
365 has a better trigger. hellcat has better ergos and, in my small experience with the 365, the hellcat is more reliable
What was unreliable about the 365?
You have to fingerfrick them. Go molest all the micro 9s and one WILL stand out as being a better fit for your hand. You can work around any other minor differences.
This, you kind of just have to go to the shops, handle a few and see what speaks to you
Hellcat. Love mine
If you refuse to heed the advice of this thread I'll give you a good bit of advice-Get the bigger version of whichever gun you choose. Skip the p365, get the xl/macro. Skip the HC, get the HC pro, skip the g43, get a g48, etc. They conceal about the same but shoot better.
pointless to buy a 365 with a larger grip, as that is what is really being concealed. If you go with a bigger grip you might as well get a full size
I rented both and preferred the sig. I have fat webbing between my index and thumb so straight backed grips aren’t too comfortable for me.
Neither, buy american, buy shield plus
Hellcat is the best in class micro nine.
Hellcat is a piece of shit, scram
you're upset you chose an inferior product. You'll get over it.
>you're upset you chose an inferior product. You'll get over it.
Yeah, I'm so upset that I don't have the worst pistol I've shot in the last year. How will I ever recover?
>https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/springfield-hellcat-20k-rounds-counting/378509
Waiting for your 20,000 round torture test Sigger
This gay did a 50k "test" over 2 years. Get over yourself, dude. The Sig shoots better. It may have a mediocre finish and a israelite CEO, but it is the better shooter for most.
>t. owner of bofum
Forgot link
>shooting 10,000 rounds in a day twice is the same as shooting 40,000 over 2 years
He said 40,000 but he lost count and might be 60,000. If your guess is off 50% I don’t buy it. Regardless you moved from
>the hellcat is a piece of shit
To
>well I shoot the Sig better
Nice goalposts gay
I never said the Hellcat or Hellcat pro suck. They're fine and reliable. The Sig just shoots better for the majority of people I have seen shoot them side-by-side.
Stop investing ego into your fricking purchases, dude. Maybe actually go out and focus on shooting, rather than stroking your pink dick to what you an in credit card debt to.
>Hellcat is a piece of shit, scram
These are the exact words I replied to
Wasn't me, dawg, but I see the other anons post now. He is a gay and is wrong. But the Sig does shoot softer/flatter.
Yeah I thought you were the original guy. I haven’t shot a P365 so I can’t say but I don’t have an issue with anyone saying it’s a better shoot. I do have an issue with someone saying the hellcat is shit because that’s objectively untrue.
The P365 series 100% shoots better and flatter than the Springfield. The Hellcat (Pro specifically for me) feels great, is accurate, an seems to have a tighter build/lockup. But after 2k rounds side-by-side, the Sig just takes it for me, but you'll be happy with either.
But someone on the internet might call me a sigger 🙁
Fair enough. I hate ~~*Sig*~~, especially their P320. Always have. And never cared for the classics, to be frank. But the P365 is a truly awesome carry gun that shoots above its weight class
The SIGgays wish their gun was as cool looking as this.
You can't solve the problem with one gun. You need many. One tiny gun that you can keep on you 24/7 in a pocket, bag or on a necklace or something in conjunction with a bigger piece you conceal carry iwb or owb when you can. This way you never are without, which is the real issue here.
NAA Pug is a great start.
>NAA Pug is a great start.
I'm going to have to disagree. I've got a NAA Ranger II and it's solid piece of machinery and great fun to shoot, but probably the worst choice for concealed carry. It might work to ward off somebody armed with a melee weapon, but firing a micro, SAO just takes too long. Its slowness in addition to it just being 5 rounds of .22 only ensures that any armed assailant is going to have time to establish that you're a threat and put 10 rounds into you before you've fired your second. Plus, reloading, if necessary, is slow since you have to remove the cylinder completely. The Ranger II is a little better, but the cylinder break is right in front of the hammer, so, under stress or with anything but dry hands, you're likely to open it while trying to wiener it. The Sidewinder has a swing out cylinder (probably the best of their line), but it's still not great.
As a fan of shitty spaghetti westerns, I really wish SA revolvers were a more viable option, but they're just not.
The NAA Guardian seems like it would be pretty sweet, though. Not sure why they discontinued that.
You don't understand the purpose of the NAA Pug. You are missing the boat here. Let me help you understand. These guns aren't competing for a spot in the gun fight. These aren't guns you're larping as a western sharpshooter practicing your quick draw on a bandit. These guns are competing for the "I don't want to carry anything burdensome, but I still want a gun". These are the guns you can ALWAYS have on your person because they are so small and light, yet still a gun. You pack your micro, sub or compact around them when you want and so you are never without either a gun or a backup gun. The PUG is small enough you can put it on a necklace and wear it under your shirt. You can sneak that thing just about anywhere on your body and there are other NAA revolvers that are even smaller. If you already have your main carry piece, then it's called a New York reload, a boot gun, a BUG... whatever. Everyone agrees that it's better to have a gun than to not have a gun and this is the gun that allows you to do that without being a pain in the ass. Not a difficult concept, imo. It's 2024. You can ALWAYS have a gun on you and you can carry more than one.
moron.
in what situation are you going to deploy the pug and have it be more beneficial than simply running away?
Father out with his family is assaulted. Pulls the Pug out and puts one 22 Mag bullet through his skull during the clench, he gets one good gut shot off before he has to go hand-to-hand or any number of other possibilities. There was an actual real estate agent that fended off some thieves with one of those little NAA revolvers while he was with his family and they even had centerfire pistols. There are literally countless accounts of people using those things to either prevent a fight or to win a fight. When you have a wife and kids you don't get to "just run away" anymore. You need to be able to stand your ground. I really shouldn't need to explain this to you. It is all self evident. There's a reason why these little revolvers are so popular. Some people get it and some never will.
>imaginary scenario
>made up scenario
>There are literally countless accounts of people using those things to either prevent a fight or to win a fight.
Guns? Yes. The Pug? No, not even one.
>When you have a wife and kids you don't get to "just run away" anymore.
You probably should also go ahead and not choose the least effective cheapest piece of shit, but maybe you're just a cuck and want your last living moments to be spent hearing your wife get raped.
The brain rot has gotten you pretty bad hasn't it. If you ever even learned to read in the first place anyway.
>nooo you didn't believe my fake story! Brainrot!
You're a moron and your saturday night special is a shit gun for Black folk.
Buy a belt and then you can carry a real gun Jamal. Good on you for sticking around for the kids though.
My point exactly. You didn't read a thing I said.
Really anon? Where did you make that point?
Post carry gun
>Can you show me any of those being used specifically in self defense?
I can find plenty of anecdotes of similar weapons being used. Single action .22 revolvers with a 1" barrel, not so much.
>Do you think a NAA is incapable of producing a lethal wound or scaring off an attacker?
No. I also don't think it is reliable capable of doing so.
k
>immaculate gun with no holster in sight
>edc
LOL
I'm glad you think so but maybe get your eyes checked. Sorry I didn't paint it then scratch the frick out of it with steel wool for an hour like every youtube influence, but I'm not into that gay shit.
>first gen tlr7
Fricking repulsive. Get a TLR7 Sub like a white man.
And let me guess, your holster has a big homosexual plastic clip on it?
Nice Spydie though lol :3
>Fricking repulsive.
It truly is.
>Get a TLR7 Sub like a white man.
works well enough, not worried about it. My brother has one of those and it's way better, but I bought the light before they existed. It still works so I'm gonna keep using it.
>And let me guess, your holster has a big homosexual plastic clip on it?
No, it has a big homosexual ulticlip on it
>ulticlip
Acceptible. I don't hate you afterall 🙂
>I can find plenty of anecdotes of similar weapons being used.
So not those specially. Cool. Why not share any of the anecdotes?
>but there aren’t any of people using NAAs
I linked 3 separate threads of people sharing their stories you dumb Black person. Can you not read?
>Do you think a NAA is incapable of producing a lethal wound or scaring off an attacker?
Why didnt you answer?
>Why didnt you answer?
I did answer. Are you illiterate? I'll do it again for your moronic ass.
>Is it capable of producing a lethal wound
yes
>Will it reliably do that
No, of course not. It's a .22 with a 1" barrel. We're talking sub-100 Ft lbs energy. I wouldn't trust it to drop a rabbit let alone save my life from an armed attacker. If you do, that's great, you're a moron.
>Why not share any of the anecdotes?
Because "man killed by 9mm or .380 pistol" isn't in question. Nobody doubts that is an effective self defense weapon and you simply wish to waste my time.
>I linked 3 separate threads
That's totally awesome dude, I believe zero of them. Find one with a news article or police report.
>That's totally awesome dude, I believe zero of them. Find one with a news article or police report.
>my nonexistent anecdotes are perfectly reliable and trustworthy
>other people’s anecdotes are fake and gay
have a nice day homosexual. It’s not worth continuing to talk with you because you aren’t willing to accept anything that differs from preconceived notions. But for anyone else following that might be skeptical watch this
11.5” of penetration with .22LR. There are more videos from others showing very similar results.
>doesn't even meet minimum penetration depth
>in fricking clear gel, not even ballistic gelatin
Anon, that's really bad. You can immediately take 30-50% of the penetration away when using clear gel.
>0.5” short of minimum
>this means there’s no way it’ll kill someone
Most .380 HPs only get to 10-11” in gel if they expand. To be honest is why I carry FMJ in mine.
No shit a 1.5” barrel .22 is underpowered. That’s not in question. Despite it being underpowered it still can be effectively used in self defense. There are dozens of stories of this. Getting shot hurts even if it’s “lol only a .22”
>>this means there’s no way it’ll kill someone
That's not what I said anon. I'm 100% certain it CAN kill someone. I'm also certain in many circumstances it will fail to. You're also ignoring clear gel is not the same as ballistics gel, and projectiles generally penetrate 30-50% deeper in it than proper ballistics gelatin. It's not .5" short.
And I don't give a single frick how much it hurts, I want the round I fire to kill the person instantly because I put it through their heart, any other result gives them ample time to kill me. Do I trust a .22 fired from a 1" barrel to reliably penetrate a sternum? Nope. Forget heavy clothing, arms in the way, I don't trust it muzzle to chest.
>Forget heavy clothing, arms in the way, I don't trust it muzzle to chest.
Then you’re an idiot. I’m not saying there aren’t better carry guns. I am saying if you hit an attacker it’ll stop them. Which is show by multiple stories about doing exactly that
>Then you’re an idiot
k
>I am saying if you hit an attacker
Even that's a problem thanks to the nonexistant sight radius and the fact you're using a single action revolver.
>it’ll stop them.
Unlikely considering it fails to meet minimum penetration depth. It MIGHT stop them. That's not good enough for me.
>Which is show by multiple stories about doing exactly that
Yes, I don't believe those.
>Yes, I don't believe those.
Again, because you are an idiot.
>if you don't believe the bullshit I made up, well you're stupid!
You must be very smart then.
>No, not even one.
I mostly carry a LCP II and a Hellcat on some days. Can you show me any of those being used specifically in self defense? Or something even newer and rarer like a SW CSX? If you can’t show me then they’ve never been used in defense and don’t work, right? That’s your logic after all.
Take anecdotes with a grain of salt but the large majority of times a gun is pulled in defense a shot isn’t fired and it’s not reported. For those that are and police comes, they aren’t always concerned about what kind of gun is used. If they do document it, where is it posted? There’s no comprehensive source anywhere. Read these
>https://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=20901.0
>https://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=2383.0
>https://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=11793.0
Do you think a NAA is incapable of producing a lethal wound or scaring off an attacker?
Nice links anon.
>These are the guns you can ALWAYS have on your person because they are so small and light, yet still a gun. You pack your micro, sub or compact around them when you want and so you are never without either a gun or a backup gun. The PUG is small enough you can put it on a necklace and wear it under your shirt. You can sneak that thing just about anywhere on your body
I have a problem with the PUGs and the NAAs other than the base minis. The PUGs have bigger grips and weigh 25-33% more. Yes they are still small and light but it’s getting away from the purpose you described. No matter what they are going to be slow and hard to shoot. So keep them as small as a possible.
For example the Mini 22LLR (the .22LR with the long barrel) vs the PUG in .22 mag. The lengths are the same, but the PUG is 0.5” taller, 0.2” wider, and weighs 33% more at 6.4oz vs 4.8oz. For performance a .22 mag out of a 1” barrel isn’t any faster than equal grain .22LR from a 1.625” barrel. You get more blast, noise, and flash for no performance gains. A P32 (if you can find one) is marginally bigger than a PUG and gives you a “real” gun. I don’t understand why if you want to go with such a small, niche carry gun you wouldn’t go as small as possible.
I don’t hate the concept. It just needs to be applied correctly.
You are correct. It does need to be applied correctly. I'm planting the idea. Anons can take their own needs and preferences into consideration. Cost & benefit is the nature of the beast. You can analyze and weigh each selection against the other so much a book could be written. I like the Pug and the BW because of the upgraded cylinder pin and sights. You are correct about the Pug as well. The barrel is very short. A 22 Mag coming out of a BW actually achieves effective penetration, but not out of the Pug. You are incorrect about the 22 magnum. That cartridge is LOUD. It sounds a lot scarier than it is and will give the impression that the user is better armed than they really are. The Keltec is a good choice, it was actually in my first post in this thread, but you aren't hanging that one from a necklace, which I think is an overlooked option with a little revolver. Ideally an anon will accrue several options over the years so he will always be well armed, regardless of dress and circumstance.
>You are incorrect about the 22 magnum. That cartridge is LOUD. It sounds a lot scarier than it is and will give the impression that the user is better armed than they really are.
I disagree with you both but that’s fine. I’m not a huge believer that noise will scare someone into submission more than the physical impact of a bullet. I get what you’re saying but I don’t subscribe to that belief. I think the lack of flash and noise to disorient you is move of an advantage to maintaining awareness than scaring an attacker.
You hear the same thing from some old SF guys who say they want unsuppressed 10.5” 5.56 because of the noise and the concussion inside. 5.56 has way more of that than .22 mag but I still think it’s kinda dumb to flashbang yourself. To each their own I guess.
Put a flaming pig or something on the end of it. You have now weaponized your blast and protected yourself from it as well.
>You get more blast, noise, and flash for no performance gains.
The majority of handgun stops, even in "serious" calibers, are psychological stops; those ARE the performance gains.
?
because AIWB sux on anything G19 or bigger especially when the footprint is extended with a light + optic. g43 or 43x is way better, shoots fine with 1 range trip to get acquainted. also the overall weight savings is nice if you're carrying in beach trunks or workouts pants that are flimsy.
>I shoot my P365XL better than my Glock 34.
>My regular P365 is on me if I'm doing yard work, mountain biking, or at the gym.
I like them because they shoot better than most guns their size. Shit like the LCP Max, which I also own, can be downright painful for large hands.
>Not too large if youre not a manlet
>Not hard to shoot. (Even compared to a full size. Get good.)
>a Glock 43X is less than a 19 or 26 Gen5
I want a micro 9 after my next paycheck, frick you.
Can't decide between Savage Stance or a Mossberg MC2SC.
Both are terrible options. Get a Shield or a P365 or /k/ will make fun of you.
Mossberg makes their guns in USA, no? Savage manufactures in Canada and China, right? Seems like an easy decision to me.
My Glock 43x in it's holster is significantly smaller than my Glock 19. It's a lot easier to carry. I also shoot the 43x way better than an LCP or something small like that.
9mm is cheap and people like comfort. That's it.
Also i almost bought a kimber micro9 because i think it looks cool. The gun salesman at the store talked me out of it because he said theyre shit and its just gonna get returned to get work done on it. He was trying to sale me a different micro9 but i forgot what it was. I abandonded the whole affair and just forgot about it
>it's another fat ass boomer with high blood pressure bloating his hands to absurd levels crying he can't hold a micro without the gay as frick pinkie extender mag or some other bullshit
lmao stick to your 1911's sweetie
Agreed, that's why I carry a real gun.
Dont forget the shit ballistics, wasting money on defense rounds that cant perform out of a micro barrel. Federal hat is the only brand i saw that had a micro category of defense ammo.
>take the popularity of the smith and wesson shield, ruger lcp, and to a lesser extent kahr and the sig pX38 models throught the 2010s and earlier
>increase capacity to 10 rounds or more but still keep it slim and easy to carry
>this confuses the internet autist
The Sig you posted is at least 12 rounds. I have a Berretta single stack 9mm and its kinda dumb. Should have just went with a sub compact of some sort in .380
>I have a Berretta single stack 9mm and its kinda dumb.
I have that gun too, and it's my pocket carry. It's good for "nonpermissive environments" when I can't carry a bigger gun. The 1.5 stack "micro 9s" that OP is talking about are anything but "micro," and only exist because fatasses can't AIWB carry fullsize handguns.
People want to eat their cake and have it too. They think they've cheated physics and their little 20oz 9mm will perform similarly to a g19. I've made the mistake with a g43 and although it's much better, the g48. I've made the decision to move to a g42/g26 for my carry needs. The g48 shoots pretty well because of the size and extra weight but I've find that skinny 9mms just aren't as much fun to shoot for extended range sessions and there's something nice about having a carry gun that is as close as it gets to your range gun, which in my case is a g17. I don't have to stock up on different mags, don't need additional holsters, parts, etc. I've also found that a stretchy belt makes carrying a double stack comfy.
The g42 is basically everything I hoped the g43 would be aside from "stopping power." It's crazy light, extremely shootable and probably my favorite Glock to shoot all day.
I fully regret getting on the micro 9 bandwagon. I went back to pocket carry on my PoS LCP II for EDC. If I am carrying 9mm when warranted, I'm carrying something shootable.
My take as well. I have different guns for different situations.
>S&W 43c snub, 22lr for walking, hiking, athletic adventures, lazy days, npe
>G42 for lightweight days but I want something more than a 22lr
>G26 (g48 now, gonna trade) if I'm going somewhere and there will be lots of people
>G17 if I'm just feeling froggy, gas station trips, etc.
Kind of funny how people get small guns for "quick trips to the gas station" when in reality that's probably the most likely location where you might actually need a gun. You're also not wearing it for long so just carry the big gun. The longer I have to carry a gun, the lighter it'll be.
Precisely. It is very personal. I'm glad we have so many options avail.
You should like using the tools you own. You don't have to love them, but they need to be good at their function. I'd rather own several tools I like to use than a shitty multi tool.
People act like you can only have one carry gun. I always liked the idea of a do it all carry gun, something like a g19, but in reality it just doesn't shake out. It's the goldilocks, easy button choice on paper but after you've carried for a while you realize that different tools have their applications. I like to keep things simple, but there are levels to conceal carrying a pistol everyday and I wish the guntubers would offer a more nuanced view on the subject, because they drive the trends.
>People act like you can only have one carry gun
no one acts like that
>no one acts like that
Sure, outside of paid promoter gaytube world perception of a perfect CCW, most of us own several different guns for different reasons and rotate CCW. Consoomer propaganda is a helluva drug.
This entire thread reads of cope and skill issues. Shoot more you fricking morons.
The gun in OP is fine. They are good CCW guns mechanically.
They are fine for center mass shooting.
The small gats like this are for people that don't want to carry a more larger 9mm. Its pretty simple and self explanatory.
Going back to the original Shield, the grip size of these pistols has always sat in a really weird area for me. With a revolver or something really tiny like a LCP, I wrap my support hand entirely around my dominant hand and squeeze without thinking about grip contact. With almost every semi auto, there is a nice open space on the grip for my support hand to fit into and get a nice hold on the gun. Then, there's the micro compact 9mm which occupies an awkward zone between those two grip styles. There's not enough open grip space to contact with my support hand, but there's enough that trying to grip it like a LCP/Revolver doesn't feel solid. Maybe if I bought one and practiced with it I would feel differently, but with as many options as we currently have, I'm not interested in spending more time with a gun that immediately fails the "does it feel good in my hands?" test. I would rather carry a traditional subcompact like a Glock 26 or P2000sk, or something really tiny.
>Remind me again why these have gotten so popular?
Marketing. People came to believe that .380 is a wimpy cartridge that won't do the job and you need 9mm, then they fell for the idea that 8 rounds of 9mm isn't enough, but 11 is. It's all marketing. That's the reason why popular carry guns barely changed for 100 years, but since social media took over, we have seen multiple major shifts. When you're a company that sells a product that will last a century with minimal care, you have to do something to get people back into the store to buy something new.
>then they fell for the idea that 8 rounds of 9mm isn't enough, but 11 is.
I disagree. Yes gunsoooomer marketing is very real. But if you had say a gen 1 or 2 Shield, why would you not want a shield plus, P365, Hellcat, etc. the 1.5 stacks add no length or height vs the “base model” single stack, and basically no width. The downside is the weight of 3-5 more rounds which is a good trade to most. It’s not a matter of you need more, it’s a matter or why not because you have no downside.
This is at least true for people buying a new carry gun where they didn’t have the old model to fill that subcompact role already. If you had the old shield buying a shield plus might not be worth a few hundred bucks. For many it’s just justification to buy a new gun. I bought a hellcat 2 years ago because I had either a LCP II or G19 or larger. It’s a nice middle ground with size/weight. I’d like a LCP max for extra rounds, but it’s not worth the money when I already have one in the same size. If I didn’t have the LCP II there’s no reason to get that over the Max
>If I didn’t have the LCP II there’s no reason to get that over the Max
The LCP II is just a tad thinner than the max, enough to print more in your pocket. They are shit disposable guns anyway, so some blowout on an LCP II for like $150 new vs whatever the max is going for, I'd rather have more .380 ammo since the experience is going to be the same.
I used to carry a compact and it was on the smaller side of compacts, FNS9c which is between g19 and g26 size. It was massive and my gf would comment that I'm always "carrying that huge gun around." Switched to a P365 and it's just not as bulky and I shoot it about the same. I'm not going back.
This being said I used to carry an LC9 and it fricking sucked. Too small and uncomfortable to shoot accurately, which is why I scaled up to the FNS9c but that ended up being too big. So something in the middle is ideal.
what about.... a micro 5.7 pistol?
I'm waiting for Kel Tec's 0.6-inch thick single stack 5.7 carry pistol.
5.7x28 is velocity dependent, so something with a short barrel would suck. You’re better off sticking with 380, 9mm, or 10mm if you want to go shorter than a 4.8” barrel.
>5.7x28 is velocity dependent, so something with a short barrel would suck.
Who said anything about a short barrel?
I'm down for a 5-6" barrel on a G43-ish grip.
>I'm down for a 5-6" barrel
That’s not micro compact
Micro compact longslide.
I would buy one
I retract my previous statement. You’ve shown me the light
Fricking terrible idea. You still have a big grip which hurts for concealibility. That’s far from the biggest problem which is velocity. 5.7 needs speed and won’t get it from a 3-3.5” barrel.
The lightest 5.7 bullets won’t have enough velocity to fragment or expand AND penetrate. You could use heavier ones for penetration but then you’re losing expansion and why not use 9mm at that point? A 68gr Lehigh screwdriver still is going to be faster than a 5.7 and that can get through IIIA in a 3.5” barrel.
>he can't pocket carry a 365
Slips right into my pocket
This. I’m fairly skinny and since I don’t wear homosexual skinny jeans, I have no problem pocket carrying my 365 or J-frame with a hogue grip, which are roughly the same size.
idk, man. I've got a G26, 637-2 bobbed, and a Ruger EC9S. I just don't have the incentive to get a 365 or similar micro-nine. G26 is what I go to a lot of the time, and when I don't want to wear a holster, I'll run one of the other two. I work at a gunstore part-time, and people really dig them. boomers love the hellcat "muh springfield." Everyone else gets a 365 or glock slim-line.
How do you like the belt clip on your EC9s? I've thought about it since it has a manual safety but I wonder how much it'd dig into my side without a holster.
I like it a lot! No rubbing problems, but I always wear a wife beater.
>>Too large to pocket carry in most situations
OP is either too fat and his clothes got too tight or he is a micro handlet.
I like my csx a lot.
It’s got some attributes that make it more suitable for experienced users whereas I wouldn't recommend it for the casual masses due to the weird field strip and manual safety.
It’s pretty much the only micro 9 I considered because I will actually carry it pointing at my junk thanks to the manual safety.
No one on /k carries anyways, doesn't matter. You all bought the latest "it" pistol, then stopped carrying after a week because it was uncomfotable.
I've carried my Hellcat every single day for several years now. Stop projecting so hard.
Speak for yourself gay
I carry a subcompact 1911 in .45
Do you always wear sweat pants under jeans? Aren’t you worried about the sweatpants draw strings getting caught up on stuff?
I usually cut off the draw strings, I forgot to do so. I keep the gun holstered in the holster and just remove the entire holster most of the time.
It has a manual safety and grip safety. I’ve tuned the holster to have some decent retention.
I like my hellcat. It lets me carry a 9mm with decent capacity even when I wear really lightweight clothes in my hot state, and I can conceal it under my work clothes when I'm not supposed to have it on site.
>pocket carry
Gay, and I like to actually use my pockets.
>harder to shoot
It's just 9mm you little homosexual, hit the gym.
>more expensive
Lmao.
>>Too large to pocket carry in most situations
White folks use holsters
>Much harder to shoot accurately
No they're not.
>Tend to be more expensive than other CCW options
No they're not.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
if you train with them and quit being a pussy about the recoil, its fine. really. you just have to *gasp* actually shoot your guns to achive this skill level.
I know thats a bit of a prohibitively high bar for most of you guys here, not my problem.
with it, i can completely and confidently conceal carry in the least permissive and most hostile environments there are, while still being able to easily put accurate shots 50yds out. my reload fits in my pocket, its really a no brainer combination of concealability and shootability.
MOST ALL other pistols will not completely conceal. this makes it fine for normal circumstances, but for so many people that need ABSOLUTE concealment at times, its a godsend
>why would I carry a .380 the size of a 9mm compact? the G25 and 80X are the same size as a Glock 19.
when for the price difference between calibers...
you can train around the 9mm, that's sooo much harder to handle
The 80x is P365xl sized.
Redpill me on 22 lr and 22 magnum for pocket carry
38 special is obnoxious to shoot in my j frame
Would mostly be a shorts and t shirt gun for when I go jogging
>38 special is obnoxious to shoot in my j frame
Is it an aluminum frame? If so, get a steel framed .38. Recoil will disappear.
If you really wanna gay it up, go 22wmr. Nothing really wrong with it
Take the subcompact w/ pinky extension pill.
Micro-9’s are for fat people.
>>Too large to pocket carry in most situations
I pocket carry a xl in regular wranglers, have you tried not being fat?
>>Much harder to shoot accurately when compared to larger guns that can still be easily concealed IWB
Have you tried getting good?
>>Tend to be more expensive than other CCW options
How about not being poor?
>Remind me again why these have gotten so popular?
Well it seems most people don't have this skill issue.
Micro 9s are just dumb. I went through 3 different ones before I realized that sub compacts like the P30SK and Glock 26 are better in just about every way.
>6x4" bad
>6.5x4.5" good
You're a real trendsetter, anon. And all of the guns are double stack subcompacts.
not saying micro 9s are the be all end all of CC (although I very much like my shield)
but if you have one and are struggling with the recoil, try some standard pressure 147 grain. IME it really reduces the snappiness of them. At this point I'm accustomed enough with the 115 grains I just carry those, but when I first got it, I carried 147s.
Reminder JMB felt a 5" barrel was needed to tame 9mm
makes sense considering everyone shot one-handed back then
>>Too large to pocket carry in most situations
True
>>Much harder to shoot accurately when compared to larger guns that can still be easily concealed IWB
False
>>Tend to be more expensive than other CCW options
Dumb
Trigger, sights and fit to hand are what go into making a gun accurate and easy to shoot. Large hands does not mean large gun. It's way more complicated. Personally, I shoot small guns and large guns the best and have to work on fundamentals more with medium sized ones.
Now there are extremes in every case. A Glock 43x is much easier to shoot than a Glock 43. A Sig p938 with a Hogue wrap is much easier to shoot than one without. A model 60 loaded with .357mag is much harder to control than one loaded with .38spcl. The problem is your broad generality. I would assert that a p365 is just as easy to shoot as a p320 and a Glock 43x is just as easy to shoot as a Glock 19 and a SIG p938 Hogue is just as easy to shoot as a fullsize 1911.
What you are giving up going to a small 9mm is capacity. You are trading capacity for comfort. How many rounds are appropriate for an EDC? Statistically there is an answer and its' well under the 7 to 10 rounds you get in a micro 9.
>A Glock 43x is much easier to shoot than a Glock 43
not when you chunk port the barrel lmoa
>chunk porting
No thank you.