1. Paul harrel is a fricking moron who doesnt understand terminal ballistics. his fricking cantelope targets are inconsistent jokes.
2. 9mm hollowpoints now vs back then are 2 completely different animals, we have had 30 years of advancements, and they were using a shitty round for that era.
3. As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
4. They should have brought a real gun, the guys withsubguns were too busy fricking a waitress at a local diner and the tard cops didnt bring rifles. All handguns suck, and all handguns are basically equal (for most things)
So rock the g26 for capacity and cheap training. If you are that concerned focus on hollowpoints with more penetration than expansion. But any decent federal, sxt, or even critical defense should perform more than fine.
Remember, at the time we didnt have the 12 inch penetration minimum so people were just looking for the most impressive expansion.
You would unironicially probably get more lethality out of adding a redot than changing calibers. The only handgun calibers with any serious improvement would be the 7.5 fk, which is a much larger and more expensive gun.
45 acp hollowpoints can do better but again much less capacity. Just stick with 9mm its fine.
You want a bullet that can minimum penetrate 12 -18 inches of ballistic gel and the more expansion the better.
>2. 9mm hollowpoints now vs back then are 2 completely different animals, we have had 30 years of advancements, and they were using a shitty round for that era. >3. As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
so...which is it?
SAS guys were using FMJ, 124 grain or 147 grain depending on the job. Either of those would have been fine. Remember the whole theory on why 9mm "failed" in the miami dade shootout was there was one 9mm round that was just shy /didnt go through the heart through a wierd angle from the side. All the other rounds were missing but there was that one round that everyone fixated on. would not have been a problem with FMJ.
Stop with your pol tier gotcha word games and think about it.
https://i.imgur.com/D4G7hkS.jpg
>is it time to step to .357 SIG?
You don't need to. Modern 9mm is better than 1980s 9mm in the US. Its easier to get the good stuff. That being said, if you want to get something better then BASED. Be sure to train with whatever you decide to carry.
>Paul harrel is a fricking moron ...
Weak bait
>As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
True. See pic
Yup. No paul harrel doesnt know shit about ballistics, hes just an old fudd who plays daddy to people on the internet, his miami dade shooting video was good however.
if you want good ballistics watch the chopping block on youtube.
https://i.imgur.com/7CX1jOT.png
Paul Harrell uses meat targets you gay. yes they should've brought rifles that are easier to shoot, but you don't always have a rifle with you. you need to be proficient with a handgun under stress. one handed shotgun guy was the most useless of all.
again with the reddit shit, he places a little slab of meat infront of canteloupes in several vids. kys. "it represents the lungs" yeah no, its not consistent and not good science. MAybe shooting something like a hog can give you data MAYBE. But we have ballistics gel to have a consisten measurement.
reddit spacing and complete moronic dribble
a match made in heaven
Reddit spacing is cope, we have posted people using this spacing since 2008. Its just easier to read, cope seethe and dilate.
Admitted 2015 newbie here: I still don't know what the frick Reddit spacing is
I know what spacing is, and I can see how its helpful for organization of text/thoughts, but why is it Reddit? Redditors do a lot of cringey things, but spacing??
its about 2016 election tourists trying to larp as oldgays.
the meat target simulates the various tissues that a bullet may encounter inside the human body and offers a much more realistic idea of the performance of a bullet, not the effect on the target. chrono results with meat target tests tell you a lot more about how a bullet performs than through a consistent medium. gay.
>Reddit spacing is cope, we have posted people using this spacing since 2008. Its just easier to read, cope seethe and dilate.
hitting enter every sentence is cancer and makes your moronic drivel take up more of my screen
he uses oranges to simulate lung tissue as inner organs are weak, the comparison is to see how much of the bags of oranges get torn up. Ballistic gel is not a comparison of what it does in a human body, it's a block of gel to simulate muscle tissue and nothing else, no ribs, no different organs, nothing. He does shoot animals, he hunts, he believes with his experience processing deer and other animals is that the meat target is a pretty good representation of what happens.
?t=1509
he shoots 3 meat targets, consistent results between all 3 targets. >oh but that round hit a rib
that's the fricking point, to show what happens when bullets hit different things. People have rib cages, they're not gelatinous blobs.
> Remember the whole theory on why 9mm "failed" in the miami dade shootout was there was one 9mm round that was just shy /didnt go through the heart through a wierd angle from the side. All the other rounds were missing but there was that one round that everyone fixated on. would not have been a problem with FMJ.
For Law Enforcement one of the primary reasons to carry is JHP to prevent overpenetration of targets and wounding of innocent by-standards. FMJ will go straight through a person, straight through the heart in that lateral through arm through chest to heart shot. It will also go straight through the target and hit whatever is on the other side with more than enough energy to be fatal. FBI standards for any pistol round is always 12-18 inches of the calibrated ballistic gel. Why do they stop at 18? For over penetration. Because Law Enforcement officers operate in environments with civilians present.
1. cope and seethe.
2. its a moronic test mechanism that doesnt give data since your body is far more gelatinous than a fricking orange. No shit the gel blocks are for consistent testing, its consistent so its the best to test. Any round that does well within the parameters of the test works well.
your edaddy is cope for you having a chastity fetish.
>muh ribs
yeah thats why 12-18 inches its understood that bone is harder, again I dont think you have read ANY of dr falkers work.
>law enforcement and muh overpen argument
You are moronic, those test parameters didnt exist before this shooting, Miami dade shooting was one of the main catalysts for modern ballistic science. You are incapable of processing any information nor reading, which makes sense for why you watch harrels shitty work.
Also overpenetration is mostly a meme, I have seen, maybe one shooting where overpenetration actually caused a casualty? and there was even controversy thinking that was the missed shot.
TLDR cops suck at shooting, you are gay and paul harrel needs to stick in his fricking lane.
Do I trust a retired serviceman, competition shooter, hunter, guy who has been in a self defense shooting or do I trust a couch commando who believes gel tests have to surpass the 12" to simulate it defeating bone?
I think I'll trust the guy who actually shoots things, anon. No offense.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You arent trusting me you are trusting dr falker and decades of testing done not only by the FBI but by private research and military research, this is all well known and established fact. Paul can shoot fine and seems to be a good guy. he just doesnt know what hes talking about here because guess what? this shit is irrelevent for your average marine or cop.
4 months ago
Anonymous
doctors and the FBI don't have alot of credibility these days
4 months ago
Anonymous
have you seen a hollow point after it hits bone? 99% of those results can be thrown out
> be me, New York cop >fire 17 rounds at black guy jumping the styles on the subway > 16 miss > 1 hits, I sure hope it doesn’t over penetrate and injure somebody behind.
>But we have ballistics gel to have a consisten measurement.
gel just serves as a consistent medium for comparative purposes, it has no bearing on performance ito a human body
>a broadhead from a recurve bow will kill a deer
Since arrows have a lot of mass they penetrate flesh very well despite being slow. This can be observed in a ballistic gel video.
>is it time to step to .357 SIG?
You don't need to. Modern 9mm is better than 1980s 9mm in the US. Its easier to get the good stuff. That being said, if you want to get something better then BASED. Be sure to train with whatever you decide to carry.
>Paul harrel is a fricking moron ...
Weak bait
>As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
True. See pic
Paul Harrell uses meat targets you gay. yes they should've brought rifles that are easier to shoot, but you don't always have a rifle with you. you need to be proficient with a handgun under stress. one handed shotgun guy was the most useless of all.
Admitted 2015 newbie here: I still don't know what the frick Reddit spacing is
I know what spacing is, and I can see how its helpful for organization of text/thoughts, but why is it Reddit? Redditors do a lot of cringey things, but spacing??
reddit spacing is apparently some thing about posting on reddit where you have to press enter twice to get a certain type of line break. I wouldn't know, I don't post on reddit
using enter twice between separate thoughts on PrepHole like I am doing right now predates reddit altogether so anyone accusing someone else of reddit spacing is probably a newbie (aka someone who started using PrepHole after 2005)
>Paul harrel is a fricking moron who doesnt understand terminal ballistics
Dude's killed an entire ecosystem worth of game in his lifetime. I trust his vastly experienced opinion infinitely more than a bunch of dudes looking at numbers to make the FBI gel standard.
hunting is a completely different ballgame moron and you are generally tracking deer after, most morons are using 3006 which is overpowered for what you need, does not translate to pistol ballistics at all or what you need for self defense.
>most morons are using 3006 which is overpowered for what you need, does not translate to pistol ballistics at all or what you need for self defense.
Good thing Paul has hunted deer with practically every handgun round in major use for the last 50 years. 99% sure he mentioned killing a deer with .32 ACP.
>99% sure he mentioned killing a deer with .32 ACP.
No, he mentioned finishing a deer off with .25 acp after he had already shot its spine with a rifle.
>FBI created it specifically so a guy with a handgun would have a chance against a guy with a rifle
This was the intention but a guy with a handgun is never ever on an even playing field against a guy with a rifle; it don't matter what caliber you got in your double stack
If it bothers you that much, just get some quality 147 grain HPs, they generally penetrate further than the lighter grains and do better, relatively, in short barreled guns.
At the end of the day it doesn't fricking matter. Statistically you're way more likely to die in a car accident, but you don't worry about possible what if car scenarios and how to react to them. If you're consistently carrying a center fire pistol, you're set for 99.999% of possible violent encounters.
did you even watch the video? paul addresses ballistic performance in this, stating that while there were a variety of calibers (38, 9mm, 357, 12ga) on scene, and 357 is a very powerful handgun, its practically useless if you dont hit your target, and the failure was one of marksmanship, not of ballistics
That guy was shooting at other people and got shot thru the arm , into his chest and stopped short of his heart. You're never going to have a car full with like 12 of your buddies getting assaulted by like that.
Keep carrying your Glop
If this is, in any way, analogous to a situation you expect to find yourself in, you shouldn't be carrying anything at all, as you're clearly a mental defective and need to be locked up for the safety of the innocent.
>His brother Roy is a cop.
Without the military experience and Paul's unique sense of humor I think Roy will find the fanbase of that channel dwindling but I hope he can make it work.
357 sig is based but I prefer the oomph of 200gr 40 in a compact. It's great against bears
1. Paul harrel is a fricking moron who doesnt understand terminal ballistics. his fricking cantelope targets are inconsistent jokes.
2. 9mm hollowpoints now vs back then are 2 completely different animals, we have had 30 years of advancements, and they were using a shitty round for that era.
3. As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
4. They should have brought a real gun, the guys withsubguns were too busy fricking a waitress at a local diner and the tard cops didnt bring rifles. All handguns suck, and all handguns are basically equal (for most things)
So rock the g26 for capacity and cheap training. If you are that concerned focus on hollowpoints with more penetration than expansion. But any decent federal, sxt, or even critical defense should perform more than fine.
Remember, at the time we didnt have the 12 inch penetration minimum so people were just looking for the most impressive expansion.
You would unironicially probably get more lethality out of adding a redot than changing calibers. The only handgun calibers with any serious improvement would be the 7.5 fk, which is a much larger and more expensive gun.
45 acp hollowpoints can do better but again much less capacity. Just stick with 9mm its fine.
You want a bullet that can minimum penetrate 12 -18 inches of ballistic gel and the more expansion the better.
>2. 9mm hollowpoints now vs back then are 2 completely different animals, we have had 30 years of advancements, and they were using a shitty round for that era.
>3. As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
so...which is it?
SAS guys were using FMJ, 124 grain or 147 grain depending on the job. Either of those would have been fine. Remember the whole theory on why 9mm "failed" in the miami dade shootout was there was one 9mm round that was just shy /didnt go through the heart through a wierd angle from the side. All the other rounds were missing but there was that one round that everyone fixated on. would not have been a problem with FMJ.
Stop with your pol tier gotcha word games and think about it.
Yup. No paul harrel doesnt know shit about ballistics, hes just an old fudd who plays daddy to people on the internet, his miami dade shooting video was good however.
if you want good ballistics watch the chopping block on youtube.
again with the reddit shit, he places a little slab of meat infront of canteloupes in several vids. kys. "it represents the lungs" yeah no, its not consistent and not good science. MAybe shooting something like a hog can give you data MAYBE. But we have ballistics gel to have a consisten measurement.
Reddit spacing is cope, we have posted people using this spacing since 2008. Its just easier to read, cope seethe and dilate.
its about 2016 election tourists trying to larp as oldgays.
the meat target simulates the various tissues that a bullet may encounter inside the human body and offers a much more realistic idea of the performance of a bullet, not the effect on the target. chrono results with meat target tests tell you a lot more about how a bullet performs than through a consistent medium. gay.
>Reddit spacing is cope, we have posted people using this spacing since 2008. Its just easier to read, cope seethe and dilate.
hitting enter every sentence is cancer and makes your moronic drivel take up more of my screen
he uses oranges to simulate lung tissue as inner organs are weak, the comparison is to see how much of the bags of oranges get torn up. Ballistic gel is not a comparison of what it does in a human body, it's a block of gel to simulate muscle tissue and nothing else, no ribs, no different organs, nothing. He does shoot animals, he hunts, he believes with his experience processing deer and other animals is that the meat target is a pretty good representation of what happens.
?t=1509
he shoots 3 meat targets, consistent results between all 3 targets.
>oh but that round hit a rib
that's the fricking point, to show what happens when bullets hit different things. People have rib cages, they're not gelatinous blobs.
> Remember the whole theory on why 9mm "failed" in the miami dade shootout was there was one 9mm round that was just shy /didnt go through the heart through a wierd angle from the side. All the other rounds were missing but there was that one round that everyone fixated on. would not have been a problem with FMJ.
For Law Enforcement one of the primary reasons to carry is JHP to prevent overpenetration of targets and wounding of innocent by-standards. FMJ will go straight through a person, straight through the heart in that lateral through arm through chest to heart shot. It will also go straight through the target and hit whatever is on the other side with more than enough energy to be fatal. FBI standards for any pistol round is always 12-18 inches of the calibrated ballistic gel. Why do they stop at 18? For over penetration. Because Law Enforcement officers operate in environments with civilians present.
you're a midwit
>reddit spacing
not reading all that shit lol
you newbies can't tell a paragraph from spacing
1. cope and seethe.
2. its a moronic test mechanism that doesnt give data since your body is far more gelatinous than a fricking orange. No shit the gel blocks are for consistent testing, its consistent so its the best to test. Any round that does well within the parameters of the test works well.
your edaddy is cope for you having a chastity fetish.
>muh ribs
yeah thats why 12-18 inches its understood that bone is harder, again I dont think you have read ANY of dr falkers work.
>law enforcement and muh overpen argument
You are moronic, those test parameters didnt exist before this shooting, Miami dade shooting was one of the main catalysts for modern ballistic science. You are incapable of processing any information nor reading, which makes sense for why you watch harrels shitty work.
Also overpenetration is mostly a meme, I have seen, maybe one shooting where overpenetration actually caused a casualty? and there was even controversy thinking that was the missed shot.
TLDR cops suck at shooting, you are gay and paul harrel needs to stick in his fricking lane.
Do I trust a retired serviceman, competition shooter, hunter, guy who has been in a self defense shooting or do I trust a couch commando who believes gel tests have to surpass the 12" to simulate it defeating bone?
I think I'll trust the guy who actually shoots things, anon. No offense.
You arent trusting me you are trusting dr falker and decades of testing done not only by the FBI but by private research and military research, this is all well known and established fact. Paul can shoot fine and seems to be a good guy. he just doesnt know what hes talking about here because guess what? this shit is irrelevent for your average marine or cop.
doctors and the FBI don't have alot of credibility these days
have you seen a hollow point after it hits bone? 99% of those results can be thrown out
> be me, New York cop
>fire 17 rounds at black guy jumping the styles on the subway
> 16 miss
> 1 hits, I sure hope it doesn’t over penetrate and injure somebody behind.
Only 17? I think you're confusing New York City with upstate.
All youtube needs is another guy shooting gel blocks, right? Surely he can tell us something the other 500 guys didn't!
>But we have ballistics gel to have a consisten measurement.
gel just serves as a consistent medium for comparative purposes, it has no bearing on performance ito a human body
why would I watch ballistic gel videos? a broadhead from a recurve bow will kill a deer just as fast as a .45-70
>a broadhead from a recurve bow will kill a deer
Since arrows have a lot of mass they penetrate flesh very well despite being slow. This can be observed in a ballistic gel video.
Arrows kill by exanguination. Bullets kill by blunt force trauma.
Weak bait
>is it time to step to .357 SIG?
You don't need to. Modern 9mm is better than 1980s 9mm in the US. Its easier to get the good stuff. That being said, if you want to get something better then BASED. Be sure to train with whatever you decide to carry.
>Paul harrel is a fricking moron ...
Weak bait
>As SAS guys were saying, they never had a problem with 9mm, fbi gays just cant shoot.
True. See pic
>pic
I would rather have a bigger bullet to shoot somebody in the face so I can watch his head explode like Hickok45 shooting a watermelon.
9mm and .357 sig bullets are really similar in size, if you really need a larger bullet then .357 sig isn't it. Get a .44 magnum then
On a completely unrelated note I wish .41 magnum was still relevant.
Neither of you watched the fricking video
Paul Harrell uses meat targets you gay. yes they should've brought rifles that are easier to shoot, but you don't always have a rifle with you. you need to be proficient with a handgun under stress. one handed shotgun guy was the most useless of all.
Ok Caleb, we get you feel emboldened now that Paul's gone.
are you the same guy every thread?
no but Caleb is
No one knows what youre talking about.
reddit spacing and complete moronic dribble
a match made in heaven
Admitted 2015 newbie here: I still don't know what the frick Reddit spacing is
I know what spacing is, and I can see how its helpful for organization of text/thoughts, but why is it Reddit? Redditors do a lot of cringey things, but spacing??
reddit spacing is apparently some thing about posting on reddit where you have to press enter twice to get a certain type of line break. I wouldn't know, I don't post on reddit
using enter twice between separate thoughts on PrepHole like I am doing right now predates reddit altogether so anyone accusing someone else of reddit spacing is probably a newbie (aka someone who started using PrepHole after 2005)
>2015 newbie
You've been here almost ten years. It's nice you're humble, but you should just be proud you're not lost in the sauce after this long.
Frick ya mudda
Do you realize every good point you made is literally in the Paul Harrell video? This includes your critique of the meat target
>Paul harrel is a fricking moron who doesnt understand terminal ballistics
Dude's killed an entire ecosystem worth of game in his lifetime. I trust his vastly experienced opinion infinitely more than a bunch of dudes looking at numbers to make the FBI gel standard.
hunting is a completely different ballgame moron and you are generally tracking deer after, most morons are using 3006 which is overpowered for what you need, does not translate to pistol ballistics at all or what you need for self defense.
>most morons are using 3006 which is overpowered for what you need, does not translate to pistol ballistics at all or what you need for self defense.
Good thing Paul has hunted deer with practically every handgun round in major use for the last 50 years. 99% sure he mentioned killing a deer with .32 ACP.
>99% sure he mentioned killing a deer with .32 ACP.
No, he mentioned finishing a deer off with .25 acp after he had already shot its spine with a rifle.
Recreate the north Hollywood shootout instead but actually survive
Movement and accurate aim are more important then caliber.
than Anon. Then is for first this, then that. You meant to say than. Learn fricking English.
Please get back to the iphone factory ching chong. No first world larping allowed.
go full moron and get a 10mm, FBI created it specifically so a guy with a handgun would have a chance against a guy with a rifle.
>FBI created it specifically so a guy with a handgun would have a chance against a guy with a rifle
This was the intention but a guy with a handgun is never ever on an even playing field against a guy with a rifle; it don't matter what caliber you got in your double stack
If it bothers you that much, just get some quality 147 grain HPs, they generally penetrate further than the lighter grains and do better, relatively, in short barreled guns.
At the end of the day it doesn't fricking matter. Statistically you're way more likely to die in a car accident, but you don't worry about possible what if car scenarios and how to react to them. If you're consistently carrying a center fire pistol, you're set for 99.999% of possible violent encounters.
>but you don't worry about possible what if car scenarios and how to react to them.
should we? Seems like a cool thing to try to prepare for
Whatever the case, just don't carry those Silvertips, you know what happened to those FBI guys!!
did you even watch the video? paul addresses ballistic performance in this, stating that while there were a variety of calibers (38, 9mm, 357, 12ga) on scene, and 357 is a very powerful handgun, its practically useless if you dont hit your target, and the failure was one of marksmanship, not of ballistics
why did paul kill those cops?
they were protecting the furry convention
They drove their vehicle in his general direction, a fatal mistake.
>what is modern expanding ammunition
redditors and newbies
357sig kicks like mad, in a tiny glock it will be incredibly difficult to make followup shots.
That guy was shooting at other people and got shot thru the arm , into his chest and stopped short of his heart. You're never going to have a car full with like 12 of your buddies getting assaulted by like that.
Keep carrying your Glop
Nah. Your ccw is just fine. Just do plenty of training
If this is, in any way, analogous to a situation you expect to find yourself in, you shouldn't be carrying anything at all, as you're clearly a mental defective and need to be locked up for the safety of the innocent.
nobody cares, noguns
RIP Paul, he died last night. troony janny deleted the thread
Cops and by extension FBI can't land shots. Bullets have to hit something to work. Your 9mm is more than enough.
>paul harrel is a former cop
No? He was a marine and then in the Army National Guard. His brother Roy is a cop.
still more experience than a bunch of morons online
>His brother Roy is a cop.
Without the military experience and Paul's unique sense of humor I think Roy will find the fanbase of that channel dwindling but I hope he can make it work.
He also isn’t nearly as proficient at shooting it seems, but guess we’ll really see what he’s capable of in the future.
He just fricking died.