Categorizations like "dagger" change with time. IRL, it's not like we're in some game where there's rigid categorizations. Daos and Messers are both swords whose name means "knife".
same with Dirks, everything has changed but you can look at early daggers almost like early guns that were chambered in bigboy calibers
old school of thought was bigger = better, that's why people carried .38special and .45ACP for so many decades before realizing it's more about shot placement and hydrostatic shot so 9mm took over
i think these daggers aptly demonstrate the benefits of 9mm over .45
More like whatever's concealable or just convenient to carry. People travelling might pack a sword and that was common enough that there were laws about leaving your sword at the door. People continued carrying weapons longer than that but if they wanted small and handy, they'd go for small.
I think the advances in metallurgy have also allowed for stronger, smaller blades, whereas previously you needed a certain amount of bulk to guarantee it wouldn't just shatter or break on you.
Plus most commonfolk used their knives for everything, they weren't just weapons, so having a knife that's a manageable size means it can be used for field crafting and not just bleeding out some filthy Norman shite bag.
At least in the analysis I've seen of knives, spears and stuff between that 900-1500 era, you get a lot of wrought iron and a bit of medium carbon steel in the cutting edge on the better ones, some are just mostly iron and by the 1400-1500 you start getting more low carbon steel with a bit of higher carbon on the better knives. So stuff like the early Frankish Seax's all the way through to something like a Rugger tends to have a spine thickness of anywhere between about 1/4" to 10mm and they're of fairly massive construction.
Wrought Iron was a component for a lot of weapons for a really long time, its not as strong as a low carbon steel, but the better worked pieces are nearly as good in some cases.
Once you get to the Renaissance era, lot more steel and we start seeing some lighter, stronger and more refined edged weapons
https://i.imgur.com/Aqhumvg.jpg
>stab a c**t on the way home from the local drinking house
>tfw people still carry on this proud tradition even today
Just like then, some people today need more than a hint to just frick off and leave you alone!
Factor in that some daggers like the big old Rondel dagger is a battlefield weapon, reinforced tip and designed to poke in between gaps, eye slits and kill people in armour, A lot of the others are sort of your 'sidearm' in places were carrying a sword might be a bit awkward and you just need to stab a c**t on the way home from the local drinking house. So they tend to be more designed to open up someone with sharp edges, the odd bit of slashing and the usual rib tickling.
A lot of the larger utility knives also sort of fit into that category more as a substitute for a fighting dagger, either you cant afford or have one for whatever reasons.
>old school of thought was bigger = better, that's why people carried .38special and .45ACP for so many decades before realizing it's more about shot placement and hydrostatic shot so 9mm took over
that literally did not happen and you are moronic
I think the advances in metallurgy have also allowed for stronger, smaller blades, whereas previously you needed a certain amount of bulk to guarantee it wouldn't just shatter or break on you.
Plus most commonfolk used their knives for everything, they weren't just weapons, so having a knife that's a manageable size means it can be used for field crafting and not just bleeding out some filthy Norman shite bag.
this is also moronic
meanwhile, in reality, medieval daggers are often tiny.
this is correct
Categorizations like "dagger" change with time. IRL, it's not like we're in some game where there's rigid categorizations. Daos and Messers are both swords whose name means "knife".
>Categorizations like "dagger" change with time.
not realy. it means the same thing today is it did when it was derived from the Old French word dague, which means to pierce or stab
At least in the analysis I've seen of knives, spears and stuff between that 900-1500 era, you get a lot of wrought iron and a bit of medium carbon steel in the cutting edge on the better ones, some are just mostly iron and by the 1400-1500 you start getting more low carbon steel with a bit of higher carbon on the better knives. So stuff like the early Frankish Seax's all the way through to something like a Rugger tends to have a spine thickness of anywhere between about 1/4" to 10mm and they're of fairly massive construction.
Wrought Iron was a component for a lot of weapons for a really long time, its not as strong as a low carbon steel, but the better worked pieces are nearly as good in some cases.
Once you get to the Renaissance era, lot more steel and we start seeing some lighter, stronger and more refined edged weapons
[...]
Just like then, some people today need more than a hint to just frick off and leave you alone!
meanwhile China, Japan and Indo-Persian had regularized spring-tempered high carbon steel for at least 1000 years previous and managed to make all manner of xbox heug weapons
>not realy. it means the same thing today is it did when it was derived from the Old French word dague, which means to pierce or stab >anon gives examples of swords whose name meant knife
Southern India had proper steel production, it was sold to the Indo-Persians via the silk road in billets and then diluted with whatever steel and iron they could forge weld together. China took one look at the wootz steel production and just said, frick it too hard and stayed with their regular iron production and Japan was out in the periphery still being as primitive as China.
Don't confuse sword making with weapon and knife making. Swords were high end items that HAD TO use a lot of steel in their construction by their very nature of mechanical effectiveness- its long, very thin, light and needs the material strength of steel to function. That doesn't apply to a mace, an axe, spear or knife. The other thing which skews the idea that they had lots of steel weapons was that surviving examples are all high end stuff, buried with important people and made by some of the best artisans in the land, they were not issued en-masse to levies of soldiers or dispensed out of a munition grade armoury. Everyone else was running around with the same kind of cheap stuff that you would have seen pretty much anywhere else that hard iron working.
They had the same economy
Lot of iron, bit of steel and off you go to stab some fricker for the cheapest, most effective way possible. It was an iron weapon that did most of the killing, not a chieftain with his artisan made sword
Iron spears, Iron arrowheads
By the 16th and 17th century, Europe was leading the charge in steel production, they made more of it, it was more uniform to work with and it came out of industries which all they did was make processed weapons- charcoal burners, kiln tenders, iron and steel traders, smiths and workers produced the blanks, the sword grinders did the geometry, another industry did the hilt, handle and fittings, a whole other trade did the sheath and hangers. What Europe taught the world was being on their doorstep and kicking the shit out of them
It's a bollock dagger. They were hung off the very front of your waist so with the higher contrast handle the idea was it'd look like you had an upward-pointing stiffy. Popular among the poor for some reason.
It's a bollock dagger. They were hung off the very front of your waist so with the higher contrast handle the idea was it'd look like you had an upward-pointing stiffy. Popular among the poor for some reason.
But it's really just to stop your hand from going up it as you stab.
Categorizations like "dagger" change with time. IRL, it's not like we're in some game where there's rigid categorizations. Daos and Messers are both swords whose name means "knife".
Why does that dagger have a knot
same with Dirks, everything has changed but you can look at early daggers almost like early guns that were chambered in bigboy calibers
old school of thought was bigger = better, that's why people carried .38special and .45ACP for so many decades before realizing it's more about shot placement and hydrostatic shot so 9mm took over
i think these daggers aptly demonstrate the benefits of 9mm over .45
More like whatever's concealable or just convenient to carry. People travelling might pack a sword and that was common enough that there were laws about leaving your sword at the door. People continued carrying weapons longer than that but if they wanted small and handy, they'd go for small.
I think the advances in metallurgy have also allowed for stronger, smaller blades, whereas previously you needed a certain amount of bulk to guarantee it wouldn't just shatter or break on you.
Plus most commonfolk used their knives for everything, they weren't just weapons, so having a knife that's a manageable size means it can be used for field crafting and not just bleeding out some filthy Norman shite bag.
That also. This is a weapons board but we ought to appreciate the utility use of various weapons. A good knife is a godsend to a survivalist.
At least in the analysis I've seen of knives, spears and stuff between that 900-1500 era, you get a lot of wrought iron and a bit of medium carbon steel in the cutting edge on the better ones, some are just mostly iron and by the 1400-1500 you start getting more low carbon steel with a bit of higher carbon on the better knives. So stuff like the early Frankish Seax's all the way through to something like a Rugger tends to have a spine thickness of anywhere between about 1/4" to 10mm and they're of fairly massive construction.
Wrought Iron was a component for a lot of weapons for a really long time, its not as strong as a low carbon steel, but the better worked pieces are nearly as good in some cases.
Once you get to the Renaissance era, lot more steel and we start seeing some lighter, stronger and more refined edged weapons
Just like then, some people today need more than a hint to just frick off and leave you alone!
Factor in that some daggers like the big old Rondel dagger is a battlefield weapon, reinforced tip and designed to poke in between gaps, eye slits and kill people in armour, A lot of the others are sort of your 'sidearm' in places were carrying a sword might be a bit awkward and you just need to stab a c**t on the way home from the local drinking house. So they tend to be more designed to open up someone with sharp edges, the odd bit of slashing and the usual rib tickling.
A lot of the larger utility knives also sort of fit into that category more as a substitute for a fighting dagger, either you cant afford or have one for whatever reasons.
>stab a c**t on the way home from the local drinking house
>tfw people still carry on this proud tradition even today
moronic post and moronic comparison.
>old school of thought was bigger = better, that's why people carried .38special and .45ACP for so many decades before realizing it's more about shot placement and hydrostatic shot so 9mm took over
that literally did not happen and you are moronic
this is also moronic
this is correct
>Categorizations like "dagger" change with time.
not realy. it means the same thing today is it did when it was derived from the Old French word dague, which means to pierce or stab
meanwhile China, Japan and Indo-Persian had regularized spring-tempered high carbon steel for at least 1000 years previous and managed to make all manner of xbox heug weapons
>not realy. it means the same thing today is it did when it was derived from the Old French word dague, which means to pierce or stab
>anon gives examples of swords whose name meant knife
>China, Japan and Indo-Persian
Southern India had proper steel production, it was sold to the Indo-Persians via the silk road in billets and then diluted with whatever steel and iron they could forge weld together. China took one look at the wootz steel production and just said, frick it too hard and stayed with their regular iron production and Japan was out in the periphery still being as primitive as China.
Don't confuse sword making with weapon and knife making. Swords were high end items that HAD TO use a lot of steel in their construction by their very nature of mechanical effectiveness- its long, very thin, light and needs the material strength of steel to function. That doesn't apply to a mace, an axe, spear or knife. The other thing which skews the idea that they had lots of steel weapons was that surviving examples are all high end stuff, buried with important people and made by some of the best artisans in the land, they were not issued en-masse to levies of soldiers or dispensed out of a munition grade armoury. Everyone else was running around with the same kind of cheap stuff that you would have seen pretty much anywhere else that hard iron working.
They had the same economy
Lot of iron, bit of steel and off you go to stab some fricker for the cheapest, most effective way possible. It was an iron weapon that did most of the killing, not a chieftain with his artisan made sword
Iron spears, Iron arrowheads
By the 16th and 17th century, Europe was leading the charge in steel production, they made more of it, it was more uniform to work with and it came out of industries which all they did was make processed weapons- charcoal burners, kiln tenders, iron and steel traders, smiths and workers produced the blanks, the sword grinders did the geometry, another industry did the hilt, handle and fittings, a whole other trade did the sheath and hangers. What Europe taught the world was being on their doorstep and kicking the shit out of them
for her pleasure
It's a bollock dagger. They were hung off the very front of your waist so with the higher contrast handle the idea was it'd look like you had an upward-pointing stiffy. Popular among the poor for some reason.
popular all the way up to royalty in fact.
But it's really just to stop your hand from going up it as you stab.
Categorizations like "dagger" change with time. IRL, it's not like we're in some game where there's rigid categorizations. Daos and Messers are both swords whose name means "knife".
Dao is just a more generic term. Maybe equivalent to "blade".
meanwhile, in reality, medieval daggers are often tiny.
My medieval daggers are pretty normal on size ngl
rule of thumb is that daggers and knives are no longer than your forearm.
any longer than that is a shortsword.
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