mechanized infantry squad size

isn't 6 men too little of a squad?
I know the ifv provides fire support so less men are needed but the men do work the if can't do and if you only got 6 they're very few and if undermanned even less and if casualties occur it's like 2 guys

what's the appropriate size and how is it equipped and structured

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm counting 9 men, 6 in the rifle team and 3 in the carrier team

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yes but the carrier guys are just driving and manning the 50, idk what the assistant does tho

      btw I'm asking a general question its it referred specifically to this pic of the Bradley

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's not like this anymore. A Bradley section (two vics with a total of 6 men) carries a whole squad (2 four-man teams consisting of a TL, rifleman, grenadier, and automatic rifleman, plus the squad leader, for a total of 9 men) between them. Two squads and two sections to a platoon, possibly with a third squad for GPMGs divvied up between the other two squads.
    Typically the dismounts carry a Javelin and have a DMR equipped with a M110A1 along with the standard M4s, M320s, and M249s.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And here's the page from ATP 3-21.8 laying it out.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        One more thing, I realize this page lists 3 squads while I said there were only 2 - the doctrine is one thing but in practice it's common for the 3rd squad to be a "ghost" squad for soldiers approaching ETS/PCS/MEB, a machine gun squad, or simply nonexistent due to concerns over space in the vehicles once gear, ammo, bags, etc are thrown into the mix.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          but if there's enough people for 3 squads but not the space in vehicles where do they go

          btw in my opinion the best said size is 14, 3 fire teams of 4 plus squad leader and drone operator, each fireteam has 2 rifleman, 1 grenadier (standalone GL not underbarrel) and 1 machine gunner, idk if it's better for the mg to be an lmg or mmg, then they can bring AT launchers of their choice that are stored in the vehicle and all have mag optics

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >t. crayon consumer

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              ?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >the best said size is 14, 3 fire teams of 4 plus squad leader and drone operator, each fireteam has 2 rifleman, 1 grenadier (standalone GL not underbarrel) and 1 machine gunner, idk if it's better for the mg to be an lmg or mmg, then they can bring AT launchers of their choice that are stored in the vehicle and all have mag optics
            The one problem with this is that even an 8x8 APC can't fit 14 dudes. You get 9 at best.
            Here's one possibility: a squad is two fire teams and a weapon/HQ team
            >Each fire team
            is 2 riflemen
            >weapon/HQ team comprises
            Squad leader
            Drone operator
            Designated marksman
            Antitank gunner
            Grenadier

            Each rifleman carries in addition one antitank round and a C-mag to double up as automatic rifleman in a pinch.

            yes but the carrier guys are just driving and manning the 50, idk what the assistant does tho

            btw I'm asking a general question its it referred specifically to this pic of the Bradley

            >idk what the assistant does
            Bradley commander. The driver drives, he gunner shoots, the commander directs them and looks for targets.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >isn't 6 men too little of a squad?
    we had fuckhuge squads in whirled whore two and the army realized that it was hard to herd fuckhuge squads so we did the opposite
    I can't be bothered to find the document but I'm not speaking out my ass, this is based on primary source documents by the way

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I know which document you refer
      There's more now

      The average person can only communicate effectively with about 3 to 5 people continuously. (Think RTS micro - most people can only micro a handful of control groups.) 1 of those is his boss. If you give him 3 underlings - fire teams, squads, manoeuvre elements whatever - that's 4. Add a friendly allied unit liaison, and that's 5. Now what about FOO, JTAC, medical, specialists like snipers and SF?

      For this reason, modern squads and fire teams should really peak at 3 elements, and 2 elements is not entirely a bad idea.

      ?

      Anon described the modern USMC squad almost exactly

      https://i.imgur.com/0pd5Snf.jpg

      isn't 6 men too little of a squad?
      I know the ifv provides fire support so less men are needed but the men do work the if can't do and if you only got 6 they're very few and if undermanned even less and if casualties occur it's like 2 guys

      what's the appropriate size and how is it equipped and structured

      6 dismounts is fine. You want a minimum of 4; 2 fire team elements with the IFV providing a base of fire plus heavy weapon plus antitank capability in one vehicle. 2 more dismounts provides a third foot element and some attrition reserve. Obviously an IFV which can pack 9 or 10 dismounts in the size of the Bradley is ideal, but it's constrained by dimensional and mass restrictions. Which is part of what makes the Stryker Dragoon so attractive.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        M2A2 ODS Bradley and onwards carries 7

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >described the modern USMC squad almost exactly
        I'm that anon, didn't know about it it was just an idea I got by needing on the subject, that's cool it's actually used I feel smart now, but how do they fit inside vehicles? does each squad need 2? or are they just light inf, I can see APCs holding 14 ppl but the problem with afvs is the turret and ammo space plus they have more crew since they got a commander too

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          *nerding

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Picrel

          They can ride in four JLTVs or one ACV for amphibious ops

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what happened to the m249 mag when every other weapons is loaded lol

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    this was back in the 1980s when the Bradley only carried 6 men along with its crew, it now carries 7 in an authorized configuration and more in a.... unauthorized config.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >too few
    Anon those 6 are bringing along a 25mm autocannon with a 7.62x51mm coax and several TOW's. They have a lot of firepower and mobility.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In 1986? Not really. WW3 would have been characterized by dense terrain getting flattened by ungodly amounts of fire, the normal battle was a meeting engagement (so none of this trench shit we see in ukraine), and NBC conditions fucking everywhere making dismounted infantry not terribly viable. Bradleys would be close in and clear in the most stubborn resistance while the vehicles's TOW and cannons, along with Abrams and all the other fancy toys just pounded the Soviets into scrap.

    Shame thing is I don't think NATO had any plans for crossing the border despite their heightened capability. They would stop the Soviets at the gaps and then stop themselves there.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >They would stop the Soviets at the gaps and then stop themselves there
      Assuming no nukes had been fired yet or the nuke exchange was limited, crossing the border would be seen as an escalation raising the possibility of a strategic nuclear exchange ending life on the planet as we know it. No border crossing = lesser existential crisis = Moscow doesn't let fly the nukes.

      Squad sizes are arbitrary and completely determined by what the IFV can carry. When sizes get too large they get split into fire teams which are actually squads under a different name. The argument that small squads have problems with casualties doesn't make sense, the same number of men are still present, and survivors will fold into another squad, making the exact same situation as if an originally larger squad took the same number of casualties.

      Practically everything you said is wrong

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Assuming no nukes had been fired yet or the nuke exchange was limited
        Neither would be the case. Nukes would fly full stop.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Squad sizes are arbitrary and completely determined by what the IFV can carry. When sizes get too large they get split into fire teams which are actually squads under a different name. The argument that small squads have problems with casualties doesn't make sense, the same number of men are still present, and survivors will fold into another squad, making the exact same situation as if an originally larger squad took the same number of casualties.

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