So lets say the Allies' radios work, gen. Gavin doesnt ape out and fail to take the bridge, 30 corps breaks trough and make a bridgehead actoss the Rhine. What are the ramifications of that scenario, does it mean that the west arrives first into Berlin?
No it means the west outruns its supply lines even faster. Antwerp was by far the most important prize but Monty was too irremediably stupid to grasp this.
>a massive british victory in the north wouldnt have any effects
germans would be in an even weaker position to resist, so the point that can be considered outrunning is closer to germany
It doesn't really matter much if you run out of gas 50% of the way to your destination or 55% of the way. A much better plan is to not run out of gas in the first place.
MONTY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MARKET GARDEN YOU ABSOLUTE MORON
Calm down
>MONTY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MARKET GARDEN
Is this some schizo conspiracy theory thing
what
IT WAS HIS FRICKING PLAN YOU BRITBONG homosexual AND HE WAS FRICKING IN COMMAND OF THE 'MARKET' FORCES
Black person, stop. Nobody needs to hear this monkey shit. Just shut the frick up and go back to chasing obese whites women
>Monty was too irremediably stupid to grasp this.
Still seething over greatness are we?
Monty was a fairly shit general with no imagination or good ideas and he tended to cause a lot of avoidable and unnecessary losses in his own troops to the point it was clear he didn't care about them. He had a terrible personality too and just rose to the top because his peers were upper-class products of nepotism who were lacking in intelligence.
I cant think of a single great thing he did that someone else wouldn't have done the exact same way. He seemed to have a very unsavoury liking for young boys too.
As for the Market forces, they were stopping every 20 minutes to brew cups of tea and that was the main problem with the whole idea.
30 Corps was really the main reason for the operational failure. Stopping your tanks before its even dark, and only starting again after lunch is a moronic idea. Why the frick were the British armor so lacking in tempo?
The guards armoured division was a fairly upper class unit and probably saw no reason to hurry for anyone or anything as they were just having a jolly good time
The tanks had been sent on without infantry to shield them. If you want a parallell, check out the Syrian and Egyptian all tank attack on Israel in 73. The latter lost 3000 tanks when.
That ignores that fact they faced scant resistance and were heavily supported by air power and mounted infantry. I think that Monty and some of the other British command wanted to prove that too could could conduct lightning war like the germans, Soviets, and Americans had by that point. Fricking limeys couldn't though.
30 Corps did have infantry elements with them. Which were busy fighting off antitank units and panzergrenadiers all the way. At some point the tanks became effectively alone. It's almost as if the Germans had had four years to plan the defense of that road.
Germany losing control of the Netherlands would have presumably made their efforts to hold Northern Belgium untenable.
Nothing would have drastically changed. The Allies would still have had to do
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Scheldt
to open up Antwerp for shipping to maintain the war success.
The Germans would still have stopped the Market Garden advance with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Nijmegen_salient
because a single supply road won't sustain the offensive needed to advance.
And then the Battle of the Bulge starts anyway in an effort to counter these gains.
>one (1) supply road through the entire region
Nothing fundamentally changes. The Germans counter-attack, fail at it, Allies make new offensives that actually work.
The plan was just bad.
Better question: Would Patton have been able to headbutt his way into Germany if he was given the resources instead?
We'll never know the answer to that, but the fact is the Western Front had basically stabilized for no other reason than logistical problems and Market Garden couldn't mystically change that. No amount of wanting to end the war as quickly as possible can change the laws of physics.
What would Patton even have done with the 1st Allied Airborne Army? To my recollection, he generally thought that paratroopers were worthless as a concept.
Patton was also the genius that said fortifications are dumb, then got pommeled by the forts of Metz.
Patton is pretty over rated as a general. He had his strong points, but he was far from perfect.
The western allies were never going to take Berlin. The writing on the wall was there a long ass time ago. They knew the Reich was going to be defeated and wanted to mitigate losses as much as possible. The Russians had over a quarter of a million casualties taking Berlin. Ike didn't want that blood on his hands. The ONLY way the west takes Berlin is if the Germans offered them full surrender on the agreement that they rush to Berlin to beat the Russians there.
slightly smaller soviet occupation zone/east germany at best
Making it across the Rhine is one thing, fighting your way into the Ruhr Valley is another.
>does it mean that the west arrives first into Berlin?
The west was already first to Berlin. Patton was told to stand by and wait for the soviets to take the city.
>muh stab in the back myth
Most likely Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt had already agreed that the east side of Berlin belonged to Russia. The other allied forces would simply have made camp after taking the west side, or have made it a very slow walk together Stalin was going to get his cut one way or another. After all that had worked so well when he secured his half of Poland by agreement with Hitler.
The issue of Berlin wasn't settled in Yalta which was months later.
If Operation Market Garden was really real then where's all the bomes?
Let it go Monty, it was too far.
Should've settled for Nijmegen