M2 Browning

How much longer will it be used until it is replaced?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When replacing it is worth the cost

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It will outlive us all

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's perfect and can't be improved.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anon, you will see colonizers on Mars patrolling with M2 Brownings on their rovers before you see it replaced.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why isn't .50 cal replaced by .408.
    .408 seems much better

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It takes chunks out of things fine

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      makes smaller holes

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        408 has more energy past 400-500m

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How much more energy? Quantify your claims with actual values. More? How much more? 1% more? 100% more? Your ambiguity is cancer inducing.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            ikd bro you could fricking google a claim and not to be expected to be fricking spoon feed

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              wow, those match bullets sure do help, don't they?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The burden of proof is on YOU, moron.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          sure but its still smaller

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There's just too much .50 and things that eat .50 in circulation.
      >Verification not required

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      same energy as
      >why don't we replace .22LR with 5.7x28???
      i'll tell you why it's because your mom is gay

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I doubt it will be replaced untill the .338 Norma beltfed hits widespread adoption - but once that happens, some US armourer is going to figure out that reworking Ma Deuce to feed on such a smaller cartridge means you increase the lifespan even further and you just know the US will adopt that shit in an instant. Even if .50 BMG dies, Ma Deuce will be eternal.

      .408 (Cheytac, I presume) is a completely different case, the better comparison is .416, which has much higher barrel wear (as does .408, but that's beyond my point).

      408 has more energy past 400-500m

      Does that matter in any of the practical applications of the M2 machinegun? Is the increase in energy more important than alle other factors (component wear, ammunition commonality, etc.)?

      https://i.imgur.com/KtfzqA4.jpg

      ikd bro you could fricking google a claim and not to be expected to be fricking spoon feed

      Now compare this to 12.7x114 (14.5 necked down to .50), it beats the pants off either. However, it requires a completely different infrastructure, doesn't fit into the M2, weighs more, and so on, and so on.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you need to be 18 or older to post here

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Battle of Olympus Mons.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As long as armies will use ammunition that support it.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >RND new gun and caliber
    >if the gun isn't enough of an improvement it won't get adopted
    >if the gun is too difficult to re-train troops on it won't get adopted
    >if the gun is too expensive to produce it won't get adopted
    do you have any idea how much of an improvement it would have to be to make up for those 3 obstacles? and on top of all that you still have to convince the committee that the gun is such a substantial part of the arsenal, and that the branch is important enough to the whole of the armed forces, that it's worth the effort. why do you think militaries around the world have adopted some variation of the AR-style platform over and over again?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you mean
      >if the developer bribes the government enough it will get adopted

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it's more than that
      there are so many things built around the M2
      like remote weapon systems and gun mounts
      a gun needs to be so much better to justify replacing all of the existing ones for a new gun

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Russia is 3 generations ahead in HMG.

    more portable WW2 era HMG used by Taliban is widely credited for their victory.

    Taliban could take a few pot shots from hillsides on US troops in the valley and be in his spider hole before any effective counter fire.

    threat of long range HMG fire kept Civil Affairs and Contractors penned up and unable to "Hearts and Minds"

    M2 is unable to do either man portable or sniper role, only big fat SUV mounted spray and pray.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even if true (it isn't), what does this do that an M107 can't? .50 cal potshots are .50 cal potshots, it's not even being used as an actual HMG - because if it was, it would eat through HMG ammo at HMG rates and that comes with HMG. Reducing MG weight is mighty implessive, but the real weight is in the ammo, that's exactly what precludes HMGs from being used as GPMGs.

      Also, M2 was definitely to perform in the sniper role and held the longest range sniper kill for quite some time. Your premise is wrong but even if the premise was correct your conclusion is still wrong.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I seen your posts, trying to figure out what PrepHole poster you are. You could be that Brazilian schizo, Thailand Chink, Canadian Chink, Indonesian Hamas spammer.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathwiener#Weaponry

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I have literally never heard of HMGs being used by insurgents in this manner, rather GPMGs instead, but I'll bite.
      >WW2 era HMG
      Assuming you're not moronic or baiting, the DShK is a worse gun and not significantly more portable than the M2, and certainly not realistically usable in the role you described.
      Assuming you indeed have FAS and are talking about the Kord and NSV, they are still heavy as shit and that role is fulfilled much better by actual anti-materiel sniper rifles in civilized armies.
      An M107 or other AMR is significantly lighter, cheaper, and more accurate and concealable while being able to do the exact same thing. Forcing your valuable HMGs into a guerilla sniper role is not ideal, and doing it when you have real sniper rifles is profound mental moronation.

      The overweight piece of shit was already obsolete in WW2. The allies probably lost hundreds of planes and extended the war by weeks, costing thousands of lives.

      >But muh it got the job done

      Having twin, heavy or bong-engined planes that have enough performance to carry enough shit weapons to still have mediocre firepower isn't a badge of quality. The M2 was like the M3 medium a piece of shit, however the Sherman was a success, while the US had to use a shit .50 because they fricked up their 20mm.

      ok moron, tell me what they did on the ground. It's not even that bad considering plenty of aircraft had lesser or similar caliber machine guns as late as the mid war.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nta, but you're moronic if you can't see the value in a man portable HMG. It isn't a role filled by anti material rifles in the west. It's a gap in capability that we are now trying to fill with the .338 machine gun that SOCOM wants.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          God that thing needs a new stock and a different suppressor for those times when having one attached is worthwhile. That looks like it will bump into all sorts of shit. Does this one have a quick change barrel or did the same morons in the Army who didn't want one on the XM250 get their way with this thing too?
          Rant aside I don't know if I would qualify these as HMGs. If they don't frick up the concept too badly they really are just GPMGs in a bigger caliber.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >you can't see the value in a man portable HMG
          because there is none. it's not stable enough or light enough to be useful.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      well NSV and Kord are certainly better than M2

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ah yes, a gun with lower accuracy and shorter service life than a high point is le good because underage redditors looked at wikipedia paper stats.

        shut the frick up, vatBlack person samegay

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          well it's lighter, easier to operate, no headspace or shit

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It's got service life of 10k rounds, for the entire gun. M2 barrels last longer than that.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              my cope is that the general idea behind NSV and Kord is pretty good and could be an improvement that the M2 needs. a light, gas-operated heavy machine gun

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >he thinks the Taliban won with small arms
      Fricking kek, the Taliban got BTFO in every standup fight they got stuck in, they won because you can't beat an insurgency with popular public support.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Until the entire Earth's population has had some Browning.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I could be armed with Heavy bolters, plasma guns, inferno guns... anything from the arsenal of my chapter.
    But I chose this.

    The Venerable Madeus-pattern heavy stubber. A pattern so old its origins are lost to the mists of time... It might possibly be as old as the Age of Terra and Solar Exodus. Either way, it is ubiqutous to the Imperium of man. You can find some variation of it on almost any planet. From the great forgeworlds to the underhive back-alleys to great voidships and space stations. There are planets where they are made with nothing but basic tools... no manufactorums or techpriests involved. And yet, they serve the humanity. They have always served humanity.

    Yes, it may lack some armor penetration. Yes, it requires heavy and bulky supply of ammo. Yes, baseline humans may require multiple soldiers working in team to operate one. But what it lacks in those areas, it makes up in sheer volley of concentrated fire.
    It still serves. It cuts down the foes of Emperor EVERYWHERE it goes. A design truly tried and tested in countless wars of the Old Night. And after it.

    It is Madeus-pattern Heavy Stubber, and I chose it over all others. Because I trust it. Because it will not fail me. Because it has proven itself time and time again to be ...a humanity's friend.
    How could I abandon an old friend?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Only homosexuals take a pintle mounted stubber over heavy bolter.

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We will kill aliens with .50 BMG and you'll like it.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    going by some of the models, its still got another 38,000 years at least.

    (it was more obvious on the old models from the 90's and 00's, but I'm not wasting time to find a pic of those for a shitty joke.)

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We (The US of A) will be using a variant of Ma Deuce when we colonize Andromeda. It might be made out of some sci-fi alloys by then for better service life and weight, but it’ll be there cutting down the hordes of xeno scum

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only thing I imagine replacing it is a caseless ammo version with a lower drag bullet profile, in a future like 6 decades out where caseless is ubiquitous.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    These are gonna outlive the Sol System.
    Just accept it and move on, anon.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The overweight piece of shit was already obsolete in WW2. The allies probably lost hundreds of planes and extended the war by weeks, costing thousands of lives.

    >But muh it got the job done

    Having twin, heavy or bong-engined planes that have enough performance to carry enough shit weapons to still have mediocre firepower isn't a badge of quality. The M2 was like the M3 medium a piece of shit, however the Sherman was a success, while the US had to use a shit .50 because they fricked up their 20mm.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The overweight piece of shit was already obsolete in WW2
      it did exactly what it was supposed to do, provide more firepower and range than a .30
      it was highly effective in that role, with the .50 on top of the M4 being used to spray enemy positions because the .50 could punch through brick walls that would have stopped the ubiquitous .30cal

      the soviets even used it in its intended role of AA in manchuria, where its ability to hit out to 400m against airborne targets was a godsend against low-flying japanese fighters
      the soviets own .50cal weapon, the 12.7mm DSHK, was about equal in weight and performance was also widespread and succesful in soviet forces

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're a moron and I will respond more in depth later if this thread is still up. The .50 caliber MG could have been made better than it was for aircraft use (I'll get into that) but as it was it still won the damn air war but evidently that isnt good enough for you. Fully reliable US made 20mm Hispanos would have been great for multiple things but even if they were there they would have have never fully replaced the aircraft .50 MGs.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        autocannons didnt 100% obsolete machine guns until the invention of the revolver cannon, anyways
        the mig-17 went into battle with just 80 rounds-per gun on its 20mm, and 40 rounds in its 37mm
        the F-86 had 300 rounds per gun on its .50s
        they were still competitively balanced at this point in history right after WW2, where the heavy mass-of-fire of the cannons wasnt always decisive against the longer bursts of the .50s

        the 20mm revolver cannon on the F-100 would obsolete both regular autocannons and machine guns by having 200 cannon rounds per gun, combining the mass of the autocannon with the rounds-per-gun of the machine gun

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We don't use the .50s against planes, we use them against people; it turns them into paint.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >thread regarding the m2 browning
    >nobody posted the greentext
    God, /k/ really has dropped off.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I was looking for my copy, thanks for posting it.

      Didn't they recently find a 90 plus year old 50 cal still in active service?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It wouldn't surprise me.
        My battery had M2s built for WW2 still in their original configuration when I was in Afghanistan (2010).
        They were in the process of updating them when I left.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You got the 40k one?

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That thing is like a modern knife or spear. It will likely be around for 100s if not thousands of years.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a tried and tested weapon. No need to replace it. People will keep using it for as long as projectile weapons are in use.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It needs to be 50% lighter so we can huck it around like MG-42

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We actually need MORE guns that fire .50bmg, if it's been around for this long it must be doing something right.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The truth is you can do a better .50 caliber MG than the M2HB. The STK 50MG is probably the best (maybe only) example to have any success. It is lighter but not designed to be so light where the rate of fire was compromised. I can't say from experience how good the manufacturing quality is but from a design standpoint it seems excellent. The dual feed ability is a nice feature that takes advantage of the wide variety of .50 caliber ammo available.
    But is it enough of an improvement to justify the replacing the current improved M2A1 or the comparable QCB variants? Probably not. These models have corrected the biggest flaw of the gun which was the dated headspace timing gunners used to have to deal with. It is heavier yes but it is typically on a vehicle anyway.
    Then there have been the "ultra light" .50 caliber MGs like the XM312 and the XM806. The problem is that in order to be as light as possible they compromised on the rate of fire. The rate of fire on the M2 is just fine against ground targets in 99% of circumstances. But the slower rate on the XM806 was not popular.
    But the other issue is the fact that while the gun isn't light the ammo is not. To have enough ammo to make such a machine gun worthwhile is a lot of weight.
    The Russians like to hype up their 12.7mm Kord by showing it with a bipod and having guys firing it from the hip while standing. Realistically that is just moronic and only designed to appeal to Reddit monkeys and 3rd workers. Just look at the belt of maybe 25 rounds hanging from it and think for a second. Now the Kord and the NSV seem technically sound guns but using them like that is just stupid.
    I will be back later to talk more about why the .50 caliber cartridge is better for heavy machine guns than the .408 if some of you unenlightened to one of the great works of John Moses Browning can't figure it out for yourselves. The .408 is great for precision rifles to be fair and better than comparable .50 caliber models for that niche.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Until army can field 30x113mm autocannon like its candy.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The one thing that would definitely kill the m2 is if they ever figure out caseless ammo.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      they were testing plastic cased .50 bmg not so long ago

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Plastic cases isn't caseless. Intact plastic cases would probably reduce the "need" for an m2 replacement since it would reduce system weight.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, they are a compromise technology that's more mature than caseless and still works with the gun.

          my cope is that the general idea behind NSV and Kord is pretty good and could be an improvement that the M2 needs. a light, gas-operated heavy machine gun

          The idea is ultimately moronic because .50 cal will never be man portable and useful, and the reason is ammo weight. A single .50 cal round weighs 1/4 a pound and infantry will never carry enough ammo to feed that thing so in essense all these ultralight bullet hoses do is trade away all the good things about a HMG for the sake of having a 50 round can worth of weight with you.

          You could shave like 15lbs of weight off the M2 by just using the lightweight barrel on it, and another 5lbs by using a lighter bipod. The reason nobody bothered is because it's used in a way that doesn't benefit from those things, but does benefit from more accurate and durable components that need fewer replacements and can sustain more fire.

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't want it to get replaced, I want the US military to keep using it, for 10 years at least

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The M2 is too entrenched and too popular to replace at a reasonable cost to the US. The quickest way it will be pushed out of service will be a legit super power war with a larger need for AP over just Toyotas with a mm of bolt on steel. I just hope I'm there when it's time to shoot the surplus ammo.

    Setting your own HS&T is a forgotten trade

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/FoBrm6E.jpg

      Yes, they are a compromise technology that's more mature than caseless and still works with the gun.

      [...]
      The idea is ultimately moronic because .50 cal will never be man portable and useful, and the reason is ammo weight. A single .50 cal round weighs 1/4 a pound and infantry will never carry enough ammo to feed that thing so in essense all these ultralight bullet hoses do is trade away all the good things about a HMG for the sake of having a 50 round can worth of weight with you.

      You could shave like 15lbs of weight off the M2 by just using the lightweight barrel on it, and another 5lbs by using a lighter bipod. The reason nobody bothered is because it's used in a way that doesn't benefit from those things, but does benefit from more accurate and durable components that need fewer replacements and can sustain more fire.

      The truth is you can do a better .50 caliber MG than the M2HB. The STK 50MG is probably the best (maybe only) example to have any success. It is lighter but not designed to be so light where the rate of fire was compromised. I can't say from experience how good the manufacturing quality is but from a design standpoint it seems excellent. The dual feed ability is a nice feature that takes advantage of the wide variety of .50 caliber ammo available.
      But is it enough of an improvement to justify the replacing the current improved M2A1 or the comparable QCB variants? Probably not. These models have corrected the biggest flaw of the gun which was the dated headspace timing gunners used to have to deal with. It is heavier yes but it is typically on a vehicle anyway.
      Then there have been the "ultra light" .50 caliber MGs like the XM312 and the XM806. The problem is that in order to be as light as possible they compromised on the rate of fire. The rate of fire on the M2 is just fine against ground targets in 99% of circumstances. But the slower rate on the XM806 was not popular.
      But the other issue is the fact that while the gun isn't light the ammo is not. To have enough ammo to make such a machine gun worthwhile is a lot of weight.
      The Russians like to hype up their 12.7mm Kord by showing it with a bipod and having guys firing it from the hip while standing. Realistically that is just moronic and only designed to appeal to Reddit monkeys and 3rd workers. Just look at the belt of maybe 25 rounds hanging from it and think for a second. Now the Kord and the NSV seem technically sound guns but using them like that is just stupid.
      I will be back later to talk more about why the .50 caliber cartridge is better for heavy machine guns than the .408 if some of you unenlightened to one of the great works of John Moses Browning can't figure it out for yourselves. The .408 is great for precision rifles to be fair and better than comparable .50 caliber models for that niche.

      The overweight piece of shit was already obsolete in WW2. The allies probably lost hundreds of planes and extended the war by weeks, costing thousands of lives.

      >But muh it got the job done

      Having twin, heavy or bong-engined planes that have enough performance to carry enough shit weapons to still have mediocre firepower isn't a badge of quality. The M2 was like the M3 medium a piece of shit, however the Sherman was a success, while the US had to use a shit .50 because they fricked up their 20mm.

      Even if true (it isn't), what does this do that an M107 can't? .50 cal potshots are .50 cal potshots, it's not even being used as an actual HMG - because if it was, it would eat through HMG ammo at HMG rates and that comes with HMG. Reducing MG weight is mighty implessive, but the real weight is in the ammo, that's exactly what precludes HMGs from being used as GPMGs.

      Also, M2 was definitely to perform in the sniper role and held the longest range sniper kill for quite some time. Your premise is wrong but even if the premise was correct your conclusion is still wrong.

      https://i.imgur.com/axDwfkS.jpg

      Russia is 3 generations ahead in HMG.

      more portable WW2 era HMG used by Taliban is widely credited for their victory.

      Taliban could take a few pot shots from hillsides on US troops in the valley and be in his spider hole before any effective counter fire.

      threat of long range HMG fire kept Civil Affairs and Contractors penned up and unable to "Hearts and Minds"

      M2 is unable to do either man portable or sniper role, only big fat SUV mounted spray and pray.

      Here's your replacement for the M2
      XM806

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Eat a bag of AIDS infested dicks, the african kind.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I knew you'd love it <3

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            My only question is where is it besides the scrap pile. Cause "future weapons" had that back in 2007 but....it kinda shit the bed for being a total piece of shit?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I've no idea where it went.
              I've also no idea if Kord is an improvement on the M2, either.
              My guess is that it's simply inertia and cost-savings is why the XM806 never dropped its "X."

              In my time wrestling with the action and finagling an M2 back together, I came to the same conclusion as a lot of other anons here. There's gotta be places where material could get sheared off or bored out, without degrading the durability. There've gotta be simplifications.
              The XM806 is ugly as sin, but I expect it's easier to pull out & drop in parts of its action. It also looks more balanced, since it's piled up towards the middle, shorter.

              Oh here we go, this article about the 806's precursor mentions the principle of how it worked:
              https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/XM312

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Oh and also, you mentioned Future Weapons,
              The place I first saw these guns mentioned was either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics.
              I remember being very excited by the Raytheon scope, and also expecting the OICW to make sci-fi real again.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    2 more weeks

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Until the Heat Death of the Universe, along with the B-52, R-7 derivative rockets and .22LR

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There is only one gun on earth that exists in competing numbers that equals or exceeds its capabilities (KPV) and it is too physically large for all applications. Which of course is why even the most fanatical 14.5mm users (Norks) still have to use 12.7mm sometimes.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    when heat impact/resistant ceramics creates a barrel that doesnt have to be changed out every 500 rounds

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