I need your help PrepHole. My country has amazing gun laws for Europe (Czech Republic). And I've been shooting regulary.
Now, I'd like to actually get a gun of my own, but as with any hobby, it's pretty difficult to get a first grasp of what's what. And there's a big difference between just plinking away with someone elses gun and actually getting one yourself.
What I'm looking for:
>Rifle, handguns are secondary at the moment.
>If possible, something more powerful than 5.56. Even if it just feels more powerful, remember: fun.
>Rails for optics and attachments are a plus.
>Preferably very tough and reliable gun that can survive harsh-esque conditions.
>Wooden stock is a big plus, but I heard there are issues with attachments, so it's not a must.
>Ammo price is a medium consideration, not a strong one but more important than Gun price.
>Gun price is not all that important.
>Overall a reliable, somewhat powerful rifle that I can get some serious shoulder bruising with, shoot between 0-500meters for fun, but that can help me when shtf, plus points for wood
Something in .308.
A CZ whatever
A Browning x-bolt
A winchester model 70
All will provide fantastic value, be very enjoyable and last indefinitely.
Can you tell me more about .308? I hear it mentioned often, but from the bit of reading I did it seems very similar to the 7.56 Nato. What am I missing here?
It's the same thing.
It throws a 7.62mm diameter bullet relatively quickly. Moderate power, moderate recoil, abundant ammunition (I don't know what reloading is like in your country) and nearly endless different bullets for reloading and guns in the caliber.
If you want something more powerful, .300WM is has similar advantages, but more expensive, more powerful, and somewhat fewer guns in it. It's still pretty common, at least in the states.
CZ American, long range precision rifle that is stronger than 5.56. If you can get a modern AR or block style or ak rifle stronger than 5.56 that is ideal. Because AK-47s are much cheaper in your part of the world and are fine as hunting rifles.
Also, a bit of my experiences so far.
So far, I did not enjoy 5.56. It's a fantastic shooting experience, very accurate and controllable. But it's also not fun.
9mm was okay for handguns, but for rifles (do you call those carbines in English or something?) it felt really boring.
22lr was "fun" in the sense that it felt like an oversized air rifle. We regulary shoot a rechambered vz 58 in 22lr and it's basically a big ol goofy toy. Not the type of fun I'm looking for.
vz 58 in original chambering feels clunky. Mechanically it's amazing, but the handling and accuracy feels a bit iffy.
k98k was fun, I really enjoy bolt action. But sadly I imagine it wouldn't be great in a more shtf scenario.
some custom made .60 czech elephant gun was fucking hilarious. but the ammo cost and reloading process makes this more of an occasional treat.
skorpion was the most uncomfortable shooting I ever had.
Scrap that, "pumpicka" aka Sa 23 was worse, way, way worse.
The best shooting fun I had so far was with some sort of AR (?) derivative but it was not chambered in 5.56. I can't remember what it was, but the bullets had a distinct green marking (a ring).
Anon you were shooting an AR with armor piercing rounds, that green tip indicates that you're firing armor piercing, it was likely a regular AR with green tips. Those kick a little harder than regular 5.56.
What's the market for Vz-58s there like? They're a ton of fun, ticks that over 5.56 box for you, could probably get a railed dust cover, not sure if beaverbarf meets the wood-stock need, ammo's a pretty widely made round. Not really shoulder bruising though.
If you'd like something with a bit more oompf, a lever action in 44 magnum or even 45-70 might work, rails are less common but not unheard of, very simple/reliable designs, and in my opinion they're simply the most fun action type to shoot.
So. It's pretty hilarious. I can get a Swiss bolt action for 250,- Euro. While the domestically produced Sa or Vz 58 in good condition will set you back about a 1000,- Euro. Not great, not terrible.
But the shooting is pretty bad, ngl. See:
Also, regarding lever actions - I heard they are prone to mechanical issues and are very, very finnicky. Is that true? I'm an absolute autist and have no issue learning to shoot a lever action almost as fast as a semi-auto, but if the gun is not 99,9% reliable I probably wont keep it for long.
I've never had any issue with them, and mechanically there's not much to them to go wrong.
That said, maybe newer builds have QC issues- the ones I have shot are either my dad's or inherited from my grandfathers. Also, I haven't done a ton of rapid fire with them, mostly brush hunting or light plinking innawoods.
>While the domestically produced Sa or Vz 58 in good condition will set you back about a 1000,- Euro. Not great, not terrible.
The fuck? They went for 300€ a few years ago.
>also, regarding lever actions - I heard they are prone to mechanical issues and are very, very finnicky. Is that true?
I've never had issues with a lever action before but you should always go out to a nearby range and try out a few of the different models as they can be a bit tricky to get a handle on if its your first time shooting with one of them. However, since you said that you enjoy bolt action than you'll most likely enjoy lever action as well if you're looking for something that's fun to shoot in the woods or out on the range. Bonus points for being able to larp as a cowboy as well. There's also a secondary market for lever action scope rails and tactical handguards so adding things such as scopes, lasers, lights, etc. isn't an issue for them anymore. Though most, if not all, modern lever actions are made with laminate stocks and not wood anymore, but there's also a secondary market for lever action wood stocks for you to look through if having wood is something you really really want on your rifle.
First, try and find out what the more popular rounds are in your region/nation and compile a list of the top 5 most commonly bought rounds are. After that you'll want to try and use that list as your primary guide for when looking to buy a shtf gun. That being said however, an semi-auto AR/AK derivative is your only real option if you need a bug out gun for when things really go south.
Based, .44 mag Henry X rifle will someday be in my hands.
9.9 times out of ten, any failures are due to user error, usually "short stroking" the lever or running handloads that wont chamber, this can be solved with practice as well as keeping to specs when handloading.
>>If possible, something more powerful than 5.56. Even if it just feels more powerful, remember: fun.
7.62x39 recoil "feels" more powerful while not really being very different terminally and still being as cheap or cheaper to plink with. An AK or derivative of checks your boxes for wood, reliability, affordability and ability to mount optics and accessories through the aftermarket.
>but but but 0-500meter
I've shot 123gr FMJ x39 out to 685m at my local KD range. No-shoots will claim 500m is impossible, but it absolutely is and still fun at that range and not just pissing in the wind.
Yeah, I heard some really wild claims about shooting ranges. There's a friend with a super gucci bolt action of some sorts. He claims that German specforces use the same gun. According to him you NEED such a gun for work around 500m+.
Meanwhile I've been plinking with an K98k with a shitty optic with a hair stuck in it at 650m+. Not amazingly, but still.
Can you give me a quick rundown on AK derivatives? I hear a lot of crazy shit about different parts kits, different magazines (steel?) and manually setting the gas or something.
>you NEED such a gun for work around 500m+
It depends on your requirements at that range, torso sized steel? Intermediate cartridges and cheap ammo are fine. 4" clays on the berm however are going to need quality ammo and awesome wind calls to make them work, so popping clays at range is your NEED then yes stepping up to a full size rifle chambering that can buck wind is going to be a better choice.
>Can you give me a quick rundown on AK derivatives?
I'm sure AKG could do far better than I. Fro x39, I mostly shoot an AR chambered in it, but also have a Romanian WASR as my "token" AK. However you could look at Galils, Valmets, Sig 510/516/556, etc as AK derivatives. There are plenty of other non-AK 7.62x39 semi autos and bolt actions though if you decide you like the round but not AKs.
Get a SBR, a basic bitch side by side and saw the barrel and a full auto AK. Proceed with flexing on Americans all day.
SCAR in 7.62x51 or hk417
The hk417 looks absolutely beautiful holy shit. I could get one in very good condition for about 2.8k. Would that be an acceptable deal?
Oh, that's nifty. No idea about the legality of that though lmao. Was definitely fun though.
Reloading? No idea whatsover, would have to ask around. But .300wm sounds intriguing. There are semi automatic rifles in the 2-3k price range available. I'll look into them a bit. Anything else I should know?
Hamdled an original vz 58, original matching parts. It's a family piece back from service and it was in genuinely good condition. Shooting still felt off. Maybe I'm just a retard.
>I could get one in very good condition for about 2.8k. Would that be an acceptable deal?
Even if it's the civvy version, absolutely
>not too worried about price
Sounds like you want an FAL, brother.
Juat buy whatever CZ 22LR and Vz.58 you have available.
Everything else is stupidly overpriced and you can find great deals on the ammo, I mean here in SK you cant get much lower than 0.36, but realistically 0.4 cpr, in CZ you can easily find 0.33 cpr cheap STV Scorpio ammo while 5.56 is still like 60 cpr AT BEST. For the price difference you can easily buy a side or top rail for the 58.
>tfw moving to ČR in a few months
What are some good ranges to visit? Any cozy outdoor ranges with some privacy? I want to do autistic drills and dump into trash. Trying to learn the language as best I can so I can get ZP asap.
Czech is an incredibly complicated language and Czechs are aware of that. Make it very obvious you do not speak the language and they'll be impressed by the simplest prosím and děkuji.
Regarding shooting ranges, back in 2011 or so the Strelnice Ludvikovice was a bit of a hidden gem. They had two pistol ranges, one midrange rifle range and one range that went up to 800meters or so iirc. They were also cheap as fuck and nobody bothered you there. You could literally just pay, set up targets and for the rest of the day you may only see some German police officers getting drunk and plinking ceramics. There's also Strelnice Skalice, which is okay.
Thank you for the tips. As for the language, I know, I've been at it for a year. Luckily I speak a few already so learning a new one is not that bad
sounds awesome, thanks
This just sounds like you are begging for a reason to by an ak in 7.62x39
>Even if it just feels more powerful, remember: fun.
So why not an AK?
The vz. 58 shot like trash and I heard there are issues with rails on an AK. Someone earlier posted the HK417 and so far I'm kinda in love with it.
It's true, AKs don't have good rail systems. You will have to buy a side rail, which looks gay and may not fit your model, or spend 300-500€ on a dust cover with a rail that holds zero.
Where are you gonna find a HK417 for a reasonable price though?
Despite all your hamletising about meme guns, fun and shtf possibilities, you will inevitably end up with a .556 semiauto rifle, 9x19 pistol, something in 22lr, probably a 12 GA shotgun and maybe a bolt action rifle in one of the more popular centerfire calibres.
Might as well buy those already, its gonna save you some money and disappointment. After you have your basics covered with sensible stuff, you can always go exploring.
.t been there, done that
I mean that's fair. And I may very well end up there myself. But for now, I wanna find my own way, no matter how retarded it may seem.
Cheapest one in good condition I found went for 2.8k, but I'm seeing models go for about 3-6k. Seems acceptable to me.
Ruger Mini 30, 7.62x39