Not sure about the specifics of this, but supposing it wasn't clearly a military camera crew there, I'd be kind of skeeved about some random butthole asking me to sign some kind of agreement like that, especially in a shithole like Russia where that would probably be all the legal proof they'd need to black bag you and have you on a Z-mobile on the way to Kherson. It looks like the context is how it looks, but I wouldn't sign something like that. The fact that these guys clearly change their mind and puss out instead of challenging him about who he is and what his motivations are just proves that the initial read on what's going on is what it looks like.
Yeah to a degree.
Their military spirit is heavily founded on Sovietism. Meaning stuck at least 30 years in the past. The Soviets happened to collapse right before the US made the leap to mass issuing optical sights. And therefore the Eastern Bloc missed that jump. And still today the move to mass issue of optics is far off for the very poor Russian State.
Russians, no.
Vatniks, yes.
Actual Russians love gadgets, tinkering, scientific discovery and modern stuff. Actual Russians are also a minority in their own country thanks to the KGB goons in power there.
>Actual Russians are also a minority in their own country thanks to the KGB goons in power there.
considering the decade long brain drain, you can be sure most of the smart and educated russians are living in canada, usa, australia or somewhere in europe. during the last big emigration after the start of the special-operation another 300k people fled and the ones still remaining are most certainly toothless, alcoholic, subhuman filth
Most of those same Russians are either dead, imprisoned, or GTFO the second Ukraine happened by now anon. All thats left are the morons and addicts to act as yesmen for the kremlin, just as the USSR intended. Russia’s brain drain is giving India a run for its money.
It's much more likely that the Zenitco catalogue was full of pilfered items. People have been buying all the shit meant for Russian soldiers for years.
My sides are permanently in orbit over the fact that Western larpers, mostly Americans, through utter happenstance inadvertently helped subvert Russian modernization by buying so, so much of their modern shit.
Equipment meant for elite Russian units is right now being used by airsofters across Europe and the US.
And /k/ looked down on them. They literally did more than /k/ ever has to defeat Russia and /k/ looked down on them. Damn.
I really don't think that's the reason the Russians don't use optics though, they simply can't afford it
I actually think they are right. After seeing how badly the russians have handled this a red dot on every rifle would have been a waste with their massive losses.
Was there any doubt? They're tiktoking it up and preventing Donbabwe battalions from retreating instead of actually dyeing for Putin.
Even the Doomposter-in-Chief had to do a telegram fluff piece where he praised the Chen Chens and described how they made his 'stache compliant with Allah's will.
Unless they’re kicking down doors doing super high speed stuff they’re probably right, I have no doubt the difference between irons and dots beyond cqc is less than crucial
Dumbass the closer you are the less an impact of an optic helps. Red dots give you more of an advantage over irons at 200 yards than they do at 20 yards.
>give every random conscript an optic worth 1 decade of labor in their random shithole village >in the end you still have no optics on your rifles >but less tax money to embezzle on yourself now
>we don't NEED optics >we don't NEED flashlights >we don't NEED silencers >we don't NEED grenade launchers >we don't NEED bullets
are Russians unironically like this?
Yes. They will never admit anything embarrasing. It took them balls to admit that Chernobyl was a disaster, not a succesfull drill on radiation accident containment.
yeah, that source is some balding middle aged man with absolutely no credentials that just makes shit up on twitter and telegram. the reality is russia is a 3rd world country and simply cannot afford or procure optics and does not have a domestic equivalent that doesn't rely on sourced parts
It's same with Finnish soldiers. They don't get anything else other than iron sight. Expectation is that soldier doesn't have time to really use some holographic sight properly when gun is needed. Soldiers are seen expendable resources with low life expectancy, so it doesn't make sense to use huge amounts of resource on a one soldier.
We do get them in these days for frontline units, you fricking morons, and FDF has been investing in optics since the fricking 2000s, you god damn mongoloid.
>soldier doesn't have time to really use some holographic sight properly
You do realize that a holographic sight (or a collimator) is significantly faster to use than actual irons, right?
>expendable resources >huge amounts of resource
Firstly, while soldiers are expendable, that doesn't mean they should wasted. Using a comparison, you can expect your tools to eventually wear out too, that doesn't mean you should throw them to the grinder for shits and giggles. Secondly, optics aren't even that expensive. A soldier's training, rifle, ammunition, and the rest of the gear easily dwarf the value of an optical sight.
What are you talking about, vatnik?
1.We have optics.
2.Using optics is faster than sights.
3.The only country moronic enough to treat soldiers as expendable is your own. Not even China and India are that stupid.
No it's not, and I'm saying this as a finnish soldier 😀
The RK update includes a red dot sight and the SOLDIERS SPECIFICALLY MENTION HOW IT MAKES AIMING FASTER.
Finland can not waste (on world scale, absolutely well) trained soldiers. Each is expected to survive and punish the russians in every way possible.
I am a finnish soldier and I'm saying this fact. You are a civil service homosexual or a russo-servant demoralizer who sucks dicks. Either way, go back to suck dicks, vitun kullia nielevä homosexual 😀
I know, vatniks will drive the narrative about "fighting for X for nothing" but that's contractually a lie. Propaganda will be used against Finland for 5+ years after this.
But a new day is here. We can eliminate mentally ill finnish rats and foreigners who support russian degeneracy, put them in prison or mental health asylum for indefinite time. I'd personally kill them but this is a civilized state.
Russia needs to accept that it's rotten to the core, they must remove their current government and join the western world as a purified state, with no old, demented soviet era grandpas in power. Otherwise we will just have to kill a lot of people in russia.
No it's not, and I'm saying this as a finnish soldier 😀
The RK update includes a red dot sight and the SOLDIERS SPECIFICALLY MENTION HOW IT MAKES AIMING FASTER.
Finland can not waste (on world scale, absolutely well) trained soldiers. Each is expected to survive and punish the russians in every way possible.
I am a finnish soldier and I'm saying this fact. You are a civil service homosexual or a russo-servant demoralizer who sucks dicks. Either way, go back to suck dicks, vitun kullia nielevä homosexual 😀
I know, vatniks will drive the narrative about "fighting for X for nothing" but that's contractually a lie. Propaganda will be used against Finland for 5+ years after this.
But a new day is here. We can eliminate mentally ill finnish rats and foreigners who support russian degeneracy, put them in prison or mental health asylum for indefinite time. I'd personally kill them but this is a civilized state.
Russia needs to accept that it's rotten to the core, they must remove their current government and join the western world as a purified state, with no old, demented soviet era grandpas in power. Otherwise we will just have to kill a lot of people in russia.
I know, vatniks will drive the narrative about "fighting for X for nothing" but that's contractually a lie. Propaganda will be used against Finland for 5+ years after this.
But a new day is here. We can eliminate mentally ill finnish rats and foreigners who support russian degeneracy, put them in prison or mental health asylum for indefinite time. I'd personally kill them but this is a civilized state.
Russia needs to accept that it's rotten to the core, they must remove their current government and join the western world as a purified state, with no old, demented soviet era grandpas in power. Otherwise we will just have to kill a lot of people in russia.
I would fricking really want one of those if the tint wasn't so extreme. I realize it's probably not an issue in the desert but the only time it would make sense for me would be in the winter when everything is grey or white.
100 bullets isn’t that much
that’s 3 mags and change
i usually carry at least 6
all the "frontline" combat grunts get optics
maybe besides the armored bulldozer operators
the only combatants who don’t get optics by default are tankers and artillerymen who don’t really need them. because if they use their guns in a war something went horribly wrong.
In the end, what was Russian doctrine pre-24.feb supposed be like? >Send agents to ex-Soviet state >Agitate local Russian population >Bolster Anti-West sentiment >Destabilize government >Insert "green men" to secure loyal assets >"NATO won't do shit because they pussy lol" >Use missile barrage to destroy targets military >Deploy VDV and isolate the capital >Use ground forces supported by pro-Russian militias to crush remaining resistance >Land Naval Infantry at a port city for effect >Send Rosguardia to capital and complete the coup >Artilery + Airforce COIN any lingering resistance
If Russians expected most work to be done by missiles, it makes sense they wouldn't care much for optics given that the troop would be expected to shoot some territoral defence militiamen, police officers or disorganized soldiers at worst
this would actually work if they hadn't accidentally cultivated Ukrainian military competence for 8 years before invading for real. If Belarus tried to leave the Russian orbit this sort of thing would probably work
>This from the same website that was asking why it matters if the Ukrainians have enough ammo when they can just pick up loot from the Russians they kill
Russia has a weapon allowing them to disable all optics on the planet, they're already training for that eventuality while NATO is left in the dark per usual
AK-12 has a shit rail system where optics can't hold zero after being fired. Of course Russian arms procurement is also crippled by corruption and embezzlement, so the troops won't be getting those optics anyway.
The prototype had a rail with a positive latch mechanism that was supposed to hold zero, but it was was one of the features that got cut to save money on the production rifle.
The production AK12 is an embarrassment, the AK-105 is a superior weapon by far.
>its a good system
Lol >better than AR
Omega lol >vatniks are moronic
This part is true
2 years ago
Anonymous
It is though, way more reliable than the AR
It's a military tool and acts like one, ARs are better for competition
2 years ago
Anonymous
Get the frick off this board, you Black person tourist.
2 years ago
Anonymous
AKs are better than ARs, even HM agrees. Cope and stop projecting
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don't give a frick who agrees with what. AKs aren't dogshit, but you're smoking dogshit if you think they're in any way definitively superior to any quality-build AR platform.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>works better under extreme conditions >better mags >easier to clean
https://i.imgur.com/PsCvtvb.jpg
>It is though, way more reliable than the AR >blocks your path
>blocks your path
2 years ago
Anonymous
>works better under extreme conditions
Whatever helps you sleep at night moron.
If you are somehow getting enough water on your AR to freeze it shut and are out long enough for it to freeze, you have already died of hypothermia. If it's cold weather operations you can plan ahead and use different or no lube. AKs are a worse design and hasn't had 60 years of fine tuning. Just accept that. That doesn't mean it's bad
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you are somehow getting enough water on your AR to freeze it shut and are out long enough for it to freeze, you have already died of hypothermia
that's just bull. Welcome to Finland to test that out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Did you completely miss the 2nd part of my statement or what? I'm saying if you fall into water, get your gun so wet and it's so cold it freezes up before you can dry it, you have bigger concerns than your gun. You need to get dry clothes and a heat source to survive and if you have that, then you can warm up and dry your gun too.
Like I already said >f it's cold weather operations you can plan ahead and use different or no lube.
If you know it's cold and it's below zero then it's not a problem. Only going from hot to cold repeatedly (like in an out of a heated car or building) that causes condensation is a problem. Just being in the cold doesn't freeze it. Snow doesn't make it lock up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>AKs are a worse design and hasn't had 60 years of fine tuning. Just accept that. That doesn't mean it's bad
I don't understand why AK fanbois can't into this exact, simple ass shit. If Sovietism could be boiled down to a single thing, it's "muh AK is better than everything." It's not trash, but it's necessarily outdated while the AR has the benefit of decades of iterative design improvement and optimization. People aren't coming up with new calibers to wring out every last ounce of capability possible for the AK platform, either. It's not exactly a design that necessarily lends itself to that kind of shit, anyway.
2 years ago
Anonymous
dont fix it if it aint broken
2 years ago
Anonymous
You missed his point entirely. It's not broken but it's worse than alternatives. And the Russians aren't doing small, incremental improvements like the AR has done for 60 years.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And the Russians aren't doing small, incremental improvements
That's because they're poor
We live in the West, we can do what russians can't
2 years ago
Anonymous
My theory is that it's mainly because their ego and image is tied to the image of the gun and it's mythos, not it's performance. You see it with AR guys too, but not as often. It's the same thing with Mosin gays acting like it's the best gun every. No, it was a great value at $50-100. It's an ok rifle otherwise. Honestly it's just like sports teams. Some people get way to involved and have too much of their personality wrapped up in a team they never played for and I say this as a guy who loves football.
>People aren't coming up with new calibers to wring out every last ounce of capability possible for the AK platform, either. It's not exactly a design that necessarily lends itself to that kind of shit, anyway.
Even if it was more adaptable (which is a design criticism) the fact that they aren't trying to is an indictment of Soviet era thought processes. They could yank the guts out of an AK and put it in a new body, try new calibers, or use an optic for fricks sake but they don't. At a minimum copy the finns and their RKs
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean even in European countries like France, soldiers may have red dots on their rifles but nothing magnified. Americans often don't realize how much money they're pouring in their military compared to the rest of the world. Most armies around the world struggle to get enough ammo for training and operations.
Some people are fanboys and are not rational that's how it is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It is though, way more reliable than the AR >blocks your path
2 years ago
Anonymous
The Kalashnikov operating system is far better than the Stoner mechanism. Probably still to this day the best automatic firearms operating system developed.
The issue for the gun is that its trapped in an atavistic shell.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And there are long-stroke piston AR uppers, that benefit from that operating system, but also (mostly) retain the inherent benefits of basic principles native to the overall AR scheme. There's other...technically/semantically non-AK pattern rifles that use long-stroke piston operation, like the Galil and Swiss SG-55x rifles that do a lot of things better than that atavistic-shelled rifle in question. And it's not even as though Kalashnikov invented the principle, either or was the first to have it in a mass-issued, mass-produced rifle.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Long stroke piston ARs are a bad mimickry.
They don't have the antifriction and better extraction aspects built into them that make the AK so good. As is, they're gimmicks that are worse than just a normal AR15 or an AK.
The SIG 550 series is wonderful. Unlike other AK-alikes they didn't change aspects of the design unnecessarily that made it worse. The modernized versions out there are probably the best combat rifle on the planet. Unfortunately they're also a step from unobtanium.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>They don't have the antifriction and better extraction aspects built into them that make the AK so good. As is, they're gimmicks that are worse than just a normal AR15 or an AK.
I can't even pretend that's not true, fair point. I don't hear too much these days about PWS compared to the hype days. >The SIG 550 series is wonderful. Unlike other AK-alikes they didn't change aspects of the design unnecessarily that made it worse. The modernized versions out there are probably the best combat rifle on the planet.
The 55x series really always has tickled my ass pink, I don't know why it has meme status with a lot of people. I ogle at the newer 553 line, especially the 13.5in barrel variant. >Unfortunately they're also a step from unobtanium.
And that's the part the kills the soul, deep, anon. Fricking deep.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Get excited man, one day you too can pay some geriatric the price of a used car for their clapped out and abused PE90.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The only truly awful part of the 55x series is the rubber dust cover lips. Shoot your rifle enough to love it, and those little suckers are coming right off.
Dude how do you not know how an AK comes apart? One it's super simple, and two it's one of the most common guns on earth. I don't have one but I know how to get the bolt out to clean.
He knows enough to throw around "vatnig" but not how an AK dust cover comes off. In a literal plebbit screencap thread. On fricking /k/. Do you need help putting two and two together?
I wasn't asking about how to remove the dust cover dummy, I was asking if ak12s needed to remove the top rail along with the dust cover when disassembling :p
The rail is mounted to the dust cover. The dust cover doesn't lock into place consistently and doesn't hold zero. Someone please correct me if that 2nd part is wrong
The AK-12 as adopted is basically just a 74M with new furniture and a few extra features no one asked for. IIRC the old prototype everyone was cooming over had a hinged dust cover that held zero but that one got trashed.
yeah no shit homie but you can field strip it without touching the rail and fricking the zero in that case
2 years ago
Anonymous
In theory yeah. But they don't hold zero. Guessing the relock isn't consistent
2 years ago
Anonymous
OH MY FRICKING GOD, dude. The rail isn't the problem, it's the fact that it's attached to a part that completely comes off the receiver during field strip, and imperfectly reattaches because vatnig mass production machining is ass trash and the parts in question (dust cover) will always have an unacceptable amount of play for the purposes of optics mounting. Like
The AK-12 as adopted is basically just a 74M with new furniture and a few extra features no one asked for. IIRC the old prototype everyone was cooming over had a hinged dust cover that held zero but that one got trashed.
said, they had a design that would've ameliorated this, but in classic Russian fashion they said frick that.
Depends on the tolerancing.
Galils and Valments can handle it for most of the rifles life, but towards the end you can get some slippage. This is because they're very tightly fitted between the top cover and the receiver.
Whether the AK12 can do the same is down to the quality of manufacture. We'll have to get something out of Russia to test on first before we can answer that.
Do you really need optics if the infantry is not expected to win the firefight, but merely advance till it's contacted, then an observer brings in artillery on whatever they contacted and probably them as well?
Iron sights are perfectly fine in most cases. I can reliably hit 1-2 inch groups at 50-100 yards while standing up with my rifle. Your magnified red dot won't make any difference in an intense situation.
This thread is just full of 17 year old gamers that have never once fired a gun.
Consistent 2 inch groups at 100 yards offhand is extremely good shooting, regardless of your sights. If you were the type of guy that could actually do it, you'd have spent enough time on a range to see a small dark target disappear as daylight begins to fade, or become occluded behind the coarse front sight that you find on most service rifles. And then you'd understand why people mount optics when their shooting matters.
>THREE (3!!) entire mags of ammo!?!?! Just for LOOKS you dumb amerimuttt!!!!!!!!! No soldier could possibly last long enough to need three entire mags!
>Optic
Yes, extends the effective range of soldiers >Flashlight
Eh, sure whatever >Silencer
Hearing protection in combat and greater difficulty for enemies to pinpoint you via sound. >Grenade launcher
Extending range of grenades every soldier uses is a good thing, better than clumsy rifle grenades >100+ bullets
Can you imagine going into battle with just 5 20 round clips?
>Can you imagine going into battle with just 5 20 round clips?
No, but that's because if they tried to send me into battle with 5x 20rnd (or 3x 33rnd or whatever) that right there would tell me everything needed about their battle plan competence and what they thought about my life expectancy and value and I'd immediately use those 100 rounds on the officers instead. Thus I wouldn't make into battle.
>Can you imagine going into battle with just 5 20 round clips?
No, but that's because if they tried to send me into battle with 5x 20rnd (or 3x 33rnd or whatever) that right there would tell me everything needed about their battle plan competence and what they thought about my life expectancy and value and I'd immediately use those 100 rounds on the officers instead. Thus I wouldn't make into battle.
i really hope he was talking about mag-size and not the total ammount of rounds per soldier
>Infantry optics
Expensive and don’t make much of a difference. People who have used optics (as opposed to fat kids who play CoD) will know that magnifying optics are very bad for CQB. Maybe non-magnifying optics would be useful but it doesn’t matter all that much
It is though, way more reliable than the AR
It's a military tool and acts like one, ARs are better for competition
It makes perfect sense if you think about. Astigmatism is common and I'd assume much worse when you're brain dead drunk on vodka and kerosene vapors.
Who are these people, and why are they this moronic? Is it FAS, are the unironic fricking Fudd as boomers? Or are they just noguns Europoor tourists opining about shit they have zero practical understanding about, but it's a shit on Russia thread so they feel they have to chime in to be apart of the gang?
>I don't have 20/20, that's for damn sure, and LPVOs are a fricking godsend. A 1.5-6x or the ocean of 1-8x's makes a world of difference.
LPVOs have significant downsides but yeah making up for shitty eyes is a completely legitimate use case. Someone could argue that at least in the west it doesn't matter because truly shit vision would be disqualifying for a lot of combat positions, vatniks don't seem to be very picky at this point though.
>vatniks don't seem to be very picky at this point though
That's the thing that makes their fricking mass issue of optics all the more bizarre, to me. If your troop quality leaves a lot to be desired, investing even in 2.5 or 3 power optics would've been a decent force multiplier. Assuming they wouldn't just sell them to airsofters again, at least.
Best story I have heard is that the Russian intelligence wing of the state runs the country. And they purposely degrade and keep the military weak in order to avoid competition for power. A successful military campaign could create a person the people would be willing to back against the government so all brass is replaced after major conflicts. The army itself is supposed to get shit on regularly according to rumors.
At this point not even sure if this is true or Rus military cope theory
>Our own nation made us weak and incompetent on purpose >Then they started a war >We brave and strong slavic voyaki, but the FSB man is keeping us down!
It's pretty much how non-military autocracies tend to be run. Keep the military weak and cycle out senior officers to avoid the formation of close relationships between officers. Unless the leadership is made up of generals the generals cannot be trusted.
Wouldn't want to be a russian general...
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1493968165717561346
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1502673952572854278
Last I remember hearing it was about the commanders/etc not trusting the conscripts to not sell everything that isn't the bare-essentials. So they don't bother giving them a (for example) $200 optic if it's going to get traded for some bread and a bottle of booze.
Optics are expensive and infantry expendable, why waste the money. Also, the main reason is that most wars since WW1 have not been fought by infantry. Infantry occupies, artillery conquers.
Even the wars where we fought goat farmers in deserts were mostly just US soldiers calling in airstrikes and artillery on enemy positions. Look at the live map of Ukraine and you'll see that artillery is doing most of the work.
the ratnik program was just for rails, we never mentioned optics, buy one yourself
>bigD_fan
OwO, he must be one of the few who enjoyed their time in the base of russia's military (prison)food chain.
I think it indicates that he enjoys being raped by big dicks.
"Optics" were invented by the MIC to defraud the American taxpayer. They're expensive, complicated, fragile, and don't work.
this
just zoom with your eye
>He doesn't have 20/1 vision like an eagle
NGMI
Pathetic Westoid soldiers haven’t even unlocked their 4th lvl Druid feats. Pathetic
No redart its a platform issue. Picatinny on M16/M4 is nice, on AK not so much.
Maybe stop using a fricking WWII era rifle design as your primary infantry weapon then Kolya
Much obliged, where can I find more info the west if trying to bury anon?
>vatnik patriotism
>ukraine
Not sure about the specifics of this, but supposing it wasn't clearly a military camera crew there, I'd be kind of skeeved about some random butthole asking me to sign some kind of agreement like that, especially in a shithole like Russia where that would probably be all the legal proof they'd need to black bag you and have you on a Z-mobile on the way to Kherson. It looks like the context is how it looks, but I wouldn't sign something like that. The fact that these guys clearly change their mind and puss out instead of challenging him about who he is and what his motivations are just proves that the initial read on what's going on is what it looks like.
Are Russians the ultimate fudds?
Yeah to a degree.
Their military spirit is heavily founded on Sovietism. Meaning stuck at least 30 years in the past. The Soviets happened to collapse right before the US made the leap to mass issuing optical sights. And therefore the Eastern Bloc missed that jump. And still today the move to mass issue of optics is far off for the very poor Russian State.
Russians, no.
Vatniks, yes.
Actual Russians love gadgets, tinkering, scientific discovery and modern stuff. Actual Russians are also a minority in their own country thanks to the KGB goons in power there.
>Actual Russians are also a minority in their own country thanks to the KGB goons in power there.
considering the decade long brain drain, you can be sure most of the smart and educated russians are living in canada, usa, australia or somewhere in europe. during the last big emigration after the start of the special-operation another 300k people fled and the ones still remaining are most certainly toothless, alcoholic, subhuman filth
Frick off. There are no good russians.
Most of those same Russians are either dead, imprisoned, or GTFO the second Ukraine happened by now anon. All thats left are the morons and addicts to act as yesmen for the kremlin, just as the USSR intended. Russia’s brain drain is giving India a run for its money.
>Are ratniks the ultimate fudds?
Anon, (Yuo) are become an meme.
>we don't NEED optics
>casually drops former prime minister
>doesnt even have irons
heh, nothin' personnel HATO cucks
From 2 meters away. With a shotgun. Soldiers with optics can make shots out to 300 or 400m easily
But it's true, iron sights are fine.
I really don't think that's the reason the Russians don't use optics though, they simply can't afford it
It's much more likely that the Zenitco catalogue was full of pilfered items. People have been buying all the shit meant for Russian soldiers for years.
My sides are permanently in orbit over the fact that Western larpers, mostly Americans, through utter happenstance inadvertently helped subvert Russian modernization by buying so, so much of their modern shit.
Equipment meant for elite Russian units is right now being used by airsofters across Europe and the US.
And /k/ looked down on them. They literally did more than /k/ ever has to defeat Russia and /k/ looked down on them. Damn.
god bless autistic children
We are reaching levels of poor cope that shouldn't be possible
Not poor cope, anon, cope about officers selling all the decent shit to Zentico/Americans.
I actually think they are right. After seeing how badly the russians have handled this a red dot on every rifle would have been a waste with their massive losses.
>mfw even chechen goatfrickers are smarter than spetznaz
Was there any doubt? They're tiktoking it up and preventing Donbabwe battalions from retreating instead of actually dyeing for Putin.
Even the Doomposter-in-Chief had to do a telegram fluff piece where he praised the Chen Chens and described how they made his 'stache compliant with Allah's will.
>the optically challenged belt of europe
This will never stop being one of the all time favorite copes of this fricking war.
Unless they’re kicking down doors doing super high speed stuff they’re probably right, I have no doubt the difference between irons and dots beyond cqc is less than crucial
Dumbass the closer you are the less an impact of an optic helps. Red dots give you more of an advantage over irons at 200 yards than they do at 20 yards.
You have never fired a gun using optics in your entire life
>give every random conscript an optic worth 1 decade of labor in their random shithole village
>in the end you still have no optics on your rifles
>but less tax money to embezzle on yourself now
The Russians have bad optics because they use no optics, and because of this, they can't see why.
>we don't NEED optics
>we don't NEED flashlights
>we don't NEED silencers
>we don't NEED grenade launchers
>we don't NEED bullets
are Russians unironically like this?
Yes. They will never admit anything embarrasing. It took them balls to admit that Chernobyl was a disaster, not a succesfull drill on radiation accident containment.
>optic+flashlight+silencer+grenade launcher+100+ bullets ammo
This, but unironically.
>we don't need 100+ bullets worth of ammo
what
>if you give soldier too much bullets, they will waste bullets
Terminally online vatniks are stuck in the 19th century.
I read someplace that they are, but most choose not to use them. Irons have been used forever.
yeah, that source is some balding middle aged man with absolutely no credentials that just makes shit up on twitter and telegram. the reality is russia is a 3rd world country and simply cannot afford or procure optics and does not have a domestic equivalent that doesn't rely on sourced parts
It's same with Finnish soldiers. They don't get anything else other than iron sight. Expectation is that soldier doesn't have time to really use some holographic sight properly when gun is needed. Soldiers are seen expendable resources with low life expectancy, so it doesn't make sense to use huge amounts of resource on a one soldier.
We do get them in these days for frontline units, you fricking morons, and FDF has been investing in optics since the fricking 2000s, you god damn mongoloid.
>soldier doesn't have time to really use some holographic sight properly
You do realize that a holographic sight (or a collimator) is significantly faster to use than actual irons, right?
>expendable resources
>huge amounts of resource
Firstly, while soldiers are expendable, that doesn't mean they should wasted. Using a comparison, you can expect your tools to eventually wear out too, that doesn't mean you should throw them to the grinder for shits and giggles. Secondly, optics aren't even that expensive. A soldier's training, rifle, ammunition, and the rest of the gear easily dwarf the value of an optical sight.
IIRC even Swiss militia doesn't get optics
What are you talking about, vatnik?
1.We have optics.
2.Using optics is faster than sights.
3.The only country moronic enough to treat soldiers as expendable is your own. Not even China and India are that stupid.
>It's same with Finnish soldiers
No it's not, and I'm saying this as a finnish soldier 😀
The RK update includes a red dot sight and the SOLDIERS SPECIFICALLY MENTION HOW IT MAKES AIMING FASTER.
Finland can not waste (on world scale, absolutely well) trained soldiers. Each is expected to survive and punish the russians in every way possible.
I am a finnish soldier and I'm saying this fact. You are a civil service homosexual or a russo-servant demoralizer who sucks dicks. Either way, go back to suck dicks, vitun kullia nielevä homosexual 😀
How do you feel about joining NATO?
Dream come true, there are no negative sides.
I know, vatniks will drive the narrative about "fighting for X for nothing" but that's contractually a lie. Propaganda will be used against Finland for 5+ years after this.
But a new day is here. We can eliminate mentally ill finnish rats and foreigners who support russian degeneracy, put them in prison or mental health asylum for indefinite time. I'd personally kill them but this is a civilized state.
Russia needs to accept that it's rotten to the core, they must remove their current government and join the western world as a purified state, with no old, demented soviet era grandpas in power. Otherwise we will just have to kill a lot of people in russia.
I like you.
I see you're a moderate as well.
>Russia needs to accept that it's rotten to the core
NATOMACHINES SON
>Otherwise we will just have to kill a lot of people in russia.
Based Finn. Godspeed to you if you need to fight.
The elusive moderate Finn
You're a legendary people, finnbro.
Blessed moderate
Moderateposting is one of the more wholesome memes coming from this whole affair
Welcome to NATO it's about fricking time
based XDDD bro
BASED
ASEDB
SEDBA
EDBAS
DBASE
moron
>100+ bullets ammo
?
probs related to mag size
you get rifle, comrade nex to you gets 5 bullets, didnt you play the old call of duties?
so even IDF reservists in non infantry units get better gear than Russian regulars...fricking hell
I would fricking really want one of those if the tint wasn't so extreme. I realize it's probably not an issue in the desert but the only time it would make sense for me would be in the winter when everything is grey or white.
100 bullets isn’t that much
that’s 3 mags and change
i usually carry at least 6
all the "frontline" combat grunts get optics
maybe besides the armored bulldozer operators
the only combatants who don’t get optics by default are tankers and artillerymen who don’t really need them. because if they use their guns in a war something went horribly wrong.
It's easy to afford optics when someone else is paying the bill
In the end, what was Russian doctrine pre-24.feb supposed be like?
>Send agents to ex-Soviet state
>Agitate local Russian population
>Bolster Anti-West sentiment
>Destabilize government
>Insert "green men" to secure loyal assets
>"NATO won't do shit because they pussy lol"
>Use missile barrage to destroy targets military
>Deploy VDV and isolate the capital
>Use ground forces supported by pro-Russian militias to crush remaining resistance
>Land Naval Infantry at a port city for effect
>Send Rosguardia to capital and complete the coup
>Artilery + Airforce COIN any lingering resistance
If Russians expected most work to be done by missiles, it makes sense they wouldn't care much for optics given that the troop would be expected to shoot some territoral defence militiamen, police officers or disorganized soldiers at worst
this would actually work if they hadn't accidentally cultivated Ukrainian military competence for 8 years before invading for real. If Belarus tried to leave the Russian orbit this sort of thing would probably work
>Why isn't war like my Cowadoody?
>giving soldiers optics is call of duty non-sense
>This from the same website that was asking why it matters if the Ukrainians have enough ammo when they can just pick up loot from the Russians they kill
who are you quoting
Redditors, newbie
>just pick up loot from the Russians they kill
Do you have any idea just how common exactly that has been in this war lmao?
>Misses the point entirely
>objective good guys mow down mentally impaired enemies by the thousands
But it is exactly like that.
Russia has a weapon allowing them to disable all optics on the planet, they're already training for that eventuality while NATO is left in the dark per usual
AK-12 has a shit rail system where optics can't hold zero after being fired. Of course Russian arms procurement is also crippled by corruption and embezzlement, so the troops won't be getting those optics anyway.
Really? I thought that was one of the things they actually got right about the 12s
The prototype had a rail with a positive latch mechanism that was supposed to hold zero, but it was was one of the features that got cut to save money on the production rifle.
The production AK12 is an embarrassment, the AK-105 is a superior weapon by far.
wouldn't done them any good anyhow. they've found that the top cover rail doesn't hold zero once you take it off and put it back on again.
so basically you'll need to re-zero your rifle every time after you done cleaning it.
I'm not familiar with vatnig guns, are you saying you have to remove the entire top rail to clean the weapon?
yeah, the top rail is on the dust cover
dios mio
It's a good system, better than the AR and there's way to to it without holding zero, vatniks are just braindead
>its a good system
Lol
>better than AR
Omega lol
>vatniks are moronic
This part is true
It is though, way more reliable than the AR
It's a military tool and acts like one, ARs are better for competition
Get the frick off this board, you Black person tourist.
AKs are better than ARs, even HM agrees. Cope and stop projecting
I don't give a frick who agrees with what. AKs aren't dogshit, but you're smoking dogshit if you think they're in any way definitively superior to any quality-build AR platform.
>works better under extreme conditions
>better mags
>easier to clean
>blocks your path
>works better under extreme conditions
Whatever helps you sleep at night moron.
If you are somehow getting enough water on your AR to freeze it shut and are out long enough for it to freeze, you have already died of hypothermia. If it's cold weather operations you can plan ahead and use different or no lube. AKs are a worse design and hasn't had 60 years of fine tuning. Just accept that. That doesn't mean it's bad
>If you are somehow getting enough water on your AR to freeze it shut and are out long enough for it to freeze, you have already died of hypothermia
that's just bull. Welcome to Finland to test that out.
Did you completely miss the 2nd part of my statement or what? I'm saying if you fall into water, get your gun so wet and it's so cold it freezes up before you can dry it, you have bigger concerns than your gun. You need to get dry clothes and a heat source to survive and if you have that, then you can warm up and dry your gun too.
Like I already said
>f it's cold weather operations you can plan ahead and use different or no lube.
If you know it's cold and it's below zero then it's not a problem. Only going from hot to cold repeatedly (like in an out of a heated car or building) that causes condensation is a problem. Just being in the cold doesn't freeze it. Snow doesn't make it lock up.
>AKs are a worse design and hasn't had 60 years of fine tuning. Just accept that. That doesn't mean it's bad
I don't understand why AK fanbois can't into this exact, simple ass shit. If Sovietism could be boiled down to a single thing, it's "muh AK is better than everything." It's not trash, but it's necessarily outdated while the AR has the benefit of decades of iterative design improvement and optimization. People aren't coming up with new calibers to wring out every last ounce of capability possible for the AK platform, either. It's not exactly a design that necessarily lends itself to that kind of shit, anyway.
dont fix it if it aint broken
You missed his point entirely. It's not broken but it's worse than alternatives. And the Russians aren't doing small, incremental improvements like the AR has done for 60 years.
>And the Russians aren't doing small, incremental improvements
That's because they're poor
We live in the West, we can do what russians can't
My theory is that it's mainly because their ego and image is tied to the image of the gun and it's mythos, not it's performance. You see it with AR guys too, but not as often. It's the same thing with Mosin gays acting like it's the best gun every. No, it was a great value at $50-100. It's an ok rifle otherwise. Honestly it's just like sports teams. Some people get way to involved and have too much of their personality wrapped up in a team they never played for and I say this as a guy who loves football.
>People aren't coming up with new calibers to wring out every last ounce of capability possible for the AK platform, either. It's not exactly a design that necessarily lends itself to that kind of shit, anyway.
Even if it was more adaptable (which is a design criticism) the fact that they aren't trying to is an indictment of Soviet era thought processes. They could yank the guts out of an AK and put it in a new body, try new calibers, or use an optic for fricks sake but they don't. At a minimum copy the finns and their RKs
I mean even in European countries like France, soldiers may have red dots on their rifles but nothing magnified. Americans often don't realize how much money they're pouring in their military compared to the rest of the world. Most armies around the world struggle to get enough ammo for training and operations.
Some people are fanboys and are not rational that's how it is.
>It is though, way more reliable than the AR
>blocks your path
The Kalashnikov operating system is far better than the Stoner mechanism. Probably still to this day the best automatic firearms operating system developed.
The issue for the gun is that its trapped in an atavistic shell.
And there are long-stroke piston AR uppers, that benefit from that operating system, but also (mostly) retain the inherent benefits of basic principles native to the overall AR scheme. There's other...technically/semantically non-AK pattern rifles that use long-stroke piston operation, like the Galil and Swiss SG-55x rifles that do a lot of things better than that atavistic-shelled rifle in question. And it's not even as though Kalashnikov invented the principle, either or was the first to have it in a mass-issued, mass-produced rifle.
Long stroke piston ARs are a bad mimickry.
They don't have the antifriction and better extraction aspects built into them that make the AK so good. As is, they're gimmicks that are worse than just a normal AR15 or an AK.
The SIG 550 series is wonderful. Unlike other AK-alikes they didn't change aspects of the design unnecessarily that made it worse. The modernized versions out there are probably the best combat rifle on the planet. Unfortunately they're also a step from unobtanium.
>They don't have the antifriction and better extraction aspects built into them that make the AK so good. As is, they're gimmicks that are worse than just a normal AR15 or an AK.
I can't even pretend that's not true, fair point. I don't hear too much these days about PWS compared to the hype days.
>The SIG 550 series is wonderful. Unlike other AK-alikes they didn't change aspects of the design unnecessarily that made it worse. The modernized versions out there are probably the best combat rifle on the planet.
The 55x series really always has tickled my ass pink, I don't know why it has meme status with a lot of people. I ogle at the newer 553 line, especially the 13.5in barrel variant.
>Unfortunately they're also a step from unobtanium.
And that's the part the kills the soul, deep, anon. Fricking deep.
Get excited man, one day you too can pay some geriatric the price of a used car for their clapped out and abused PE90.
The only truly awful part of the 55x series is the rubber dust cover lips. Shoot your rifle enough to love it, and those little suckers are coming right off.
Also the AK12 front rail will wiggle if you grip it hard
?t=07m23s
Dude how do you not know how an AK comes apart? One it's super simple, and two it's one of the most common guns on earth. I don't have one but I know how to get the bolt out to clean.
He knows enough to throw around "vatnig" but not how an AK dust cover comes off. In a literal plebbit screencap thread. On fricking /k/. Do you need help putting two and two together?
I wasn't asking about how to remove the dust cover dummy, I was asking if ak12s needed to remove the top rail along with the dust cover when disassembling :p
The rail is mounted to the dust cover. The dust cover doesn't lock into place consistently and doesn't hold zero. Someone please correct me if that 2nd part is wrong
The AK-12 as adopted is basically just a 74M with new furniture and a few extra features no one asked for. IIRC the old prototype everyone was cooming over had a hinged dust cover that held zero but that one got trashed.
My expectations are pretty low but I'm still routinely disappointed.
Black person the handguard has zero to do with the receiver.
yeah no shit homie but you can field strip it without touching the rail and fricking the zero in that case
In theory yeah. But they don't hold zero. Guessing the relock isn't consistent
OH MY FRICKING GOD, dude. The rail isn't the problem, it's the fact that it's attached to a part that completely comes off the receiver during field strip, and imperfectly reattaches because vatnig mass production machining is ass trash and the parts in question (dust cover) will always have an unacceptable amount of play for the purposes of optics mounting. Like
said, they had a design that would've ameliorated this, but in classic Russian fashion they said frick that.
I've only ever seen an ak with a forward rail over the handguard tbqhdesu
Dude, just stop it, you lost and you're only further clowning on yourself.
Good AKs are expensive in the US these days. I'd get one if I could
Unironically the Gen3-5 PSA AKs are good. Not great but good.
Twitter and Reddit kids have infested this board.
Depends on the tolerancing.
Galils and Valments can handle it for most of the rifles life, but towards the end you can get some slippage. This is because they're very tightly fitted between the top cover and the receiver.
Whether the AK12 can do the same is down to the quality of manufacture. We'll have to get something out of Russia to test on first before we can answer that.
Do you really need optics if the infantry is not expected to win the firefight, but merely advance till it's contacted, then an observer brings in artillery on whatever they contacted and probably them as well?
>100 bullets
that's not even 3 mags...
are vatBlack folk ok?
Iron sights are perfectly fine in most cases. I can reliably hit 1-2 inch groups at 50-100 yards while standing up with my rifle. Your magnified red dot won't make any difference in an intense situation.
This thread is just full of 17 year old gamers that have never once fired a gun.
You are moronic and the average distance of engagements is far greater than that in Ukraine.
You have never shot a gun in your life.
Yeah, and all you need is 7+1 rounds of .45, grandpa, we know, now go fricking die already.
You are not special forces, and you have never fired a gun.
>(You) are not special forces, and (you) have never fired a gun.
Nor will you ever.
Consistent 2 inch groups at 100 yards offhand is extremely good shooting, regardless of your sights. If you were the type of guy that could actually do it, you'd have spent enough time on a range to see a small dark target disappear as daylight begins to fade, or become occluded behind the coarse front sight that you find on most service rifles. And then you'd understand why people mount optics when their shooting matters.
>THREE (3!!) entire mags of ammo!?!?! Just for LOOKS you dumb amerimuttt!!!!!!!!! No soldier could possibly last long enough to need three entire mags!
here is ur scope bro
>66 replies
>not ONE post telling OP to return from whence he came
i guess ukroshills have stopped pretending they're not from reddit now?
unlike you, i'm not a reddit user so i don't even know how its layout supposed to be like
>Optic
Yes, extends the effective range of soldiers
>Flashlight
Eh, sure whatever
>Silencer
Hearing protection in combat and greater difficulty for enemies to pinpoint you via sound.
>Grenade launcher
Extending range of grenades every soldier uses is a good thing, better than clumsy rifle grenades
>100+ bullets
Can you imagine going into battle with just 5 20 round clips?
>Can you imagine going into battle with just 5 20 round clips?
No, but that's because if they tried to send me into battle with 5x 20rnd (or 3x 33rnd or whatever) that right there would tell me everything needed about their battle plan competence and what they thought about my life expectancy and value and I'd immediately use those 100 rounds on the officers instead. Thus I wouldn't make into battle.
>2x50 round coffin magazines
>Only iron sights
>Good luck tovarisch, if you fall ten more will take your place
>can any comrade remind me about the english spelling of "мятeж" I need to look something up quickly while the captain is over there
i really hope he was talking about mag-size and not the total ammount of rounds per soldier
It makes perfect sense if you think about. Astigmatism is common and I'd assume much worse when you're brain dead drunk on vodka and kerosene vapors.
>Infantry optics
Expensive and don’t make much of a difference. People who have used optics (as opposed to fat kids who play CoD) will know that magnifying optics are very bad for CQB. Maybe non-magnifying optics would be useful but it doesn’t matter all that much
Who are these people, and why are they this moronic? Is it FAS, are the unironic fricking Fudd as boomers? Or are they just noguns Europoor tourists opining about shit they have zero practical understanding about, but it's a shit on Russia thread so they feel they have to chime in to be apart of the gang?
why did you quoted me you Black person
I quoted two morons and someone who thinks optics means only unmagnified red dots, tell me which one is you.
>If you don’t need a 4x optic for engagements at 50m then you’re stupid
Are you legally blind or what?
I don't have 20/20, that's for damn sure, and LPVOs are a fricking godsend. A 1.5-6x or the ocean of 1-8x's makes a world of difference.
>I don't have 20/20, that's for damn sure, and LPVOs are a fricking godsend. A 1.5-6x or the ocean of 1-8x's makes a world of difference.
LPVOs have significant downsides but yeah making up for shitty eyes is a completely legitimate use case. Someone could argue that at least in the west it doesn't matter because truly shit vision would be disqualifying for a lot of combat positions, vatniks don't seem to be very picky at this point though.
>vatniks don't seem to be very picky at this point though
That's the thing that makes their fricking mass issue of optics all the more bizarre, to me. If your troop quality leaves a lot to be desired, investing even in 2.5 or 3 power optics would've been a decent force multiplier. Assuming they wouldn't just sell them to airsofters again, at least.
>t. gas huffing ruskie with moron eye
Yeah, the dude telling the Fudd frickers that optics aren't a meme and/or include things between red dots and fricking S&B 5-25s is the ruskie.
And my eyes aren't moronic, they're just special.
whatever you say butane breath
>He doesn't chug butane so he can whip out a lighter and breath fire and shit.
You've lost at life, anon.
Best story I have heard is that the Russian intelligence wing of the state runs the country. And they purposely degrade and keep the military weak in order to avoid competition for power. A successful military campaign could create a person the people would be willing to back against the government so all brass is replaced after major conflicts. The army itself is supposed to get shit on regularly according to rumors.
I can believe that
At this point not even sure if this is true or Rus military cope theory
>Our own nation made us weak and incompetent on purpose
>Then they started a war
>We brave and strong slavic voyaki, but the FSB man is keeping us down!
It's pretty much how non-military autocracies tend to be run. Keep the military weak and cycle out senior officers to avoid the formation of close relationships between officers. Unless the leadership is made up of generals the generals cannot be trusted.
Wouldn't want to be a russian general...
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1493968165717561346
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1502673952572854278
jesus they are bad drivers
RIFLE. IS. FINE.
are europeans so poor they cant afford red dot sights and lpvos?
i have like 6 random optics just sitting in my garage lmao this is a joke right
Scopes are for gays, children and sharpshooters
>Russian soldiers
>AK-12
You mean AK-74M right? lol. Kek. LMAO.
if i was a russian soldier i'd pray to get a AK74M instead of a AK12
Last I remember hearing it was about the commanders/etc not trusting the conscripts to not sell everything that isn't the bare-essentials. So they don't bother giving them a (for example) $200 optic if it's going to get traded for some bread and a bottle of booze.
gib AKV-521
Russia is playing the long game
EMPs disable optic.. makes troops who rely on them useless
actually smart plan
>EMPs disable optic
Jesus fricking christ, do they disable gravitation as well?
too much MW2
Optics are expensive and infantry expendable, why waste the money. Also, the main reason is that most wars since WW1 have not been fought by infantry. Infantry occupies, artillery conquers.
Even the wars where we fought goat farmers in deserts were mostly just US soldiers calling in airstrikes and artillery on enemy positions. Look at the live map of Ukraine and you'll see that artillery is doing most of the work.